Trump does not want to hear tape of 'vicious' Khashoggi murder

[mikebike]

6 hours ago, bristolboy said:

You are actually quoting cryingdick. The party who apparently believes that all that stands between the USA's economy and disaster is trade with Saudi Arabia.  I just cited his quote about hoping for increased oil production in the USA.

And where did you come up with the factoid that Canadian Crude is being sold for less than $15 a barrel? That's just plain false.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=candian+crude+oil+price&oq=candian+crude+oil+price&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4096j1j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Uhm... no it is not.

 

Canadian gas prices fall as crude oil continues slide
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gasoline-crude-oil-1.4907139

[bristolboy]

7 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Uhm... no it is not.

 

Canadian gas prices fall as crude oil continues slide
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gasoline-crude-oil-1.4907139

Yes. But that oil is sandsoil and isn't much wanted by anybody. Which is why the price is so low. 

[mikebike]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Yes. But that oil is sandsoil and isn't much wanted by anybody. Which is why the price is so low. 

That wasn't the point. Someone else was questioning the amount.

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, mikebike said:

That wasn't the point. Someone else was questioning the amount.

I did question the number because that person said that why pay x amount of dollars for saudi oil when you can pay a lot less for Canadian oil. But it was oilsands oil which there is a very low demand for. It doesnt' reflect the reality of world oil prices.

[Cryingdick]

14 minutes ago, mikebike said:

That wasn't the point. Someone else was questioning the amount.

 

I was and appreciate you showed the figures. Bristol can never admit he was wrong no matter what.

[DM07]

By now, Agent Orange is saying, CIA findings may have been premature!

So NOW, he AGAIN says. he is not trusting in the information, the CIA is providing!

Liar, moron, dumb$#%@....

[Tchooptip]

7 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

Not sure many people would like to hear such a tape

 By the way, the president of the United States facing an important event as a commander in chief is not comparable to "many people" and cannot behave like an ostrich.

[spidermike007]

Has anyone ever seen such a dour, unhappy, bitter, nasty piece of work like this president? He has not responded well to the humiliating losses of the past couple of weeks. The ultimate sore loser. Not a nanogram of grace in his entire body, it would appear. 

 

Also, he did not have the judgment to refuse counsel on skipping the ceremony at the cemetery of fallen American heroes. He should have attended that short of his impending death or a tragedy in the family. That was a real monster of a mistake and he had not recovered from the humiliation he brought upon himself and his nation by being such a thoughtless coward. 

 

This has been a bad couple of weeks for Trump. And it is only going to get worse from here. 

[Foexie]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

"I don’t want to hear the tape, no reason for me to hear the tape," Trump said in an interview with "Fox News Sunday."

A huge reason for him not to wanna listen to it!

 

Like this he can deny everything: "i see or hear no proof that SA was involved so i no need to punish them".

 

You can be sure that, if this is something he could use against anybody who wanna be the next president in 2020 or not fit in his plans, he will listen to it and probably use it as a lullaby every night.

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Yes. But that oil is sandsoil and isn't much wanted by anybody. Which is why the price is so low. 

Tar sand oil is indeed a s....ty oil and cannot be processed and refined like light Arabian oil.

 

Yet, the main reason for the huge discount is mostly linked to transportation.

 

Not only is it far from the Gulf refineries, but there are no practical means of transportation, such as pipelines, for it.

 

It seems that Canada made a mistake by devastating a large part of the country (the photos are truly horrific) while making no money from this gigantic project.

 

Venezuela, which has the largest tar sand oil reserves, has not touched them as far as I know...

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

 

I was and appreciate you showed the figures. Bristol can never admit he was wrong no matter what.

This is what's know as projection. You know, when someone can't face a character fault in themselves so they project it onto someone else. In fact, Expat Oil worker showed me that I was wrong and I immediately acknowledged it. 

 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Let me show then...and sorry for the technicalities.

 

First, the world economy is not made only from trade, a huge part of it results from purely internal transactions: the US produces goods and services, included in its GDP, which are consumed by Americans and thus not part of international transactions...ditto for Japan, China, Germany and every other country.

 

Thus, comparing global GDP with global international transactions is like comparing apples with oranges...

 

The petrodollar is the name given to the dollars that are held by oil exporters.

 

There is also a eurodollar = dollars held by European countries.

 

A distinction has been made with the "regular" dollar because of the huge amounts involved, and because these dollars move around independently of the US economy.

 

For example, when Germany wants to buy oil to Saudi Arabia, it needs to pay in dollars, not in euros.

 

Because oil is such a big and crucial part of international trade, the use of dollars has been extended to multiple other transactions, even if they don't involve the US.

 

The price of many commodities other than oil is expressed in dollars.

 

If Germany buys gold to South Africa, it is going to pay in dollars, not in euros.

 

Now, if Saudi Arabia and the OPEC were to accept payments in currencies other than the dollar, sooner or later most exporters of other commodities would follow suit.

 

From then on, countries wouldn't need dollars anymore, or at least not as much as before, since they could use their own currency for most of their international transactions.

 

The basic law of supply and demand would immediately come into play: with much less demand for the dollar, its value would go down, and so would the value of assets denominated in dollars.

 

For the Americans, the cost of imports would go up significantly, thus creating inflation and a loss of purchasing power.

 

What matters for the value of the dollar is not only the trust of the people, but also their need for it.

 

When the need for something is dramatically reduced, so is its value...

 

 

"Now, if Saudi Arabia and the OPEC were to accept payments in currencies other than the dollar, sooner or later most exporters of other commodities would follow suit.

From then on, countries wouldn't need dollars anymore, or at least not as much as before, since they could use their own currency for most of their international transactions."

That's quite a big "if". You have to ask yourself why they don't already use it. I remember just a few years ago, China launched the "petroyuan". How's that doing? Why can't countries use their own currencies now? Maybe because their economies aren't big enough and the rest of the world doesn't have as much faith in them?

You keep on putting the cart before the horse. If other currencies could replace the dollar in international trading it would already have been the case. Arbitrage alone would have seen to that. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

For once I agree with Trump. I am pretty sure listening to that tape will bring nightmares to most normal people.

Why would anybody do something to have nightmares?

I once downloaded the video from one of those decapitations. I put the volume to zero and looked at it in a stamp-sized window - for a few seconds. And then I decided I really don't have to do this. I think that was a good decision.

 

[Brunolem]

19 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

"Now, if Saudi Arabia and the OPEC were to accept payments in currencies other than the dollar, sooner or later most exporters of other commodities would follow suit.

From then on, countries wouldn't need dollars anymore, or at least not as much as before, since they could use their own currency for most of their international transactions."

That's quite a big "if". You have to ask yourself why they don't already use it. I remember just a few years ago, China launched the "petroyuan". How's that doing? Why can't countries use their own currencies now? Maybe because their economies aren't big enough and the rest of the world doesn't have as much faith in them?

You keep on putting the cart before the horse. If other currencies could replace the dollar in international trading it would already have been the case. Arbitrage alone would have seen to that. 

 

There is History behind that...nothing to do with economies being strong or not.

 

After the 1973 oil shock, Henry Kissinger, then secretary of state, went to Saudi Arabia and negociated a deal according to which this  latter country, as well as its OPEC neighbors, would sell their oil only for dollars.

 

In exchange, the US would offer protection to Saudi Arabia, both from outside potential attacks, and from inside against any tentative of regime change.

 

This deal has held until now.

 

Yet, a few "adventurers" among which a certain Saddam Hussein and a certain Muammar Gaddafi, tried to circumvent the OPEC deal and the petrodollar.

 

The two "adventurers" were promptly taken to the cleaners and their countries destroyed...which shows how much the deal, and the petrodollar, matter for the US.

 

Many countries are now trying to get out of the petrodollar, starting with China and Russia, with the latter selling its oil to the former in exchange for yuans.

 

Meanwhile, the petroyuan is growing up nicely, thus contributing to enrage the US...see the nice meetings between Pence, Xi and Putin last week at the APEC summit...it looks like Pence was looking for a fist fight with Putin...

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Brunolem

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

For once I agree with Trump. I am pretty sure listening to that tape will bring nightmares to most normal people.

Why would anybody do something to have nightmares?

I once downloaded the video from one of those decapitations. I put the volume to zero and looked at it in a stamp-sized window - for a few seconds. And then I decided I really don't have to do this. I think that was a good decision.

 

 

I generally agree with you about not wanting to watch nightmarish stuff. But, as far as I know, presidents are supposed to be held to a different standard than the rest of us. And most like to stay informed, so they can make intelligent decisions, that can benefit their nations. That applies to the reasonable and intelligent ones, who make sound decisions that are not guided by emotions, paper thin skin, low self esteem masked by much bragacchio, and a perception of minor personal slights. 

 

Of course, there are some exceptions to that rule. And some are more compromised than others. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by spidermike007

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

58 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

For once I agree with Trump. I am pretty sure listening to that tape will bring nightmares to most normal people.

Why would anybody do something to have nightmares?

I once downloaded the video from one of those decapitations. I put the volume to zero and looked at it in a stamp-sized window - for a few seconds. And then I decided I really don't have to do this. I think that was a good decision.

 

As far as I know, presidents are supposed to be held to a different standard than the rest of us. And most like to stay informed, so they can make intelligent decisions, that can benefit their nations. Of course, there are some exceptions to that rule. And some are more bought and paid for than others. 

Ok, so what's your point?

It seem Trump read or was told in detail about that "tape".

Let's say someone described to him in detail that the victim was screaming and one killer told another: "the boss will like this" or whatever happened.

That should be enough for the president (any president, not just Trump) to understand what happened. What extra information would he get if he would listen to the recording? As far as I see no extra information. So why should he, or anybody else who does not have to, listen to this?

Let's say he would listen and then he would think about that for the rest of the day and the night and the next days. Would that be helpful in any way?

[animalmagic]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, so what's your point?

It seem Trump read or was told in detail about that "tape".

Let's say someone described to him in detail that the victim was screaming and one killer told another: "the boss will like this" or whatever happened.

That should be enough for the president (any president, not just Trump) to understand what happened. What extra information would he get if he would listen to the recording? As far as I see no extra information. So why should he, or anybody else who does not have to, listen to this?

Let's say he would listen and then he would think about that for the rest of the day and the night and the next days. Would that be helpful in any way?

If, as he claims, the evidence on the tape has such momentous import that would influence the steps he must take with a major ally, to the extent of being damaging to the US economy and jobs, then he is duty bound to listen to the tape.  

Eisenhower recognised his duty before he became president and saw first hand the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps.

Edited November 19, 2018 by animalmagic
typo and addition

[OneMoreFarang]

8 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

If, as he claims, the evidence on the tape has such momentous import that would influence the steps he must take with a major ally, to the extent of being damaging to the US economy and jobs, then he is duty bound to listen to the tape.  

Eisenhower recognised his duty before he became president and saw first hand the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps.

He should be duty-bound to act according to what happened. If MBS was responsible, as it seems, then that should be enough to change US policy - with or without listening to the recording.

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, animalmagic said:

Eisenhower recognised his duty before he became president and saw first hand the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps.

Eisenhower was a General.

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

2 hours ago, animalmagic said:

horrors of the Nazi concentration camps.

He should be duty-bound to act according to what happened. If MBS was responsible, as it seems, then that should be enough to change US policy - with or without listening to the recording.

Why? Because the Saudis bumped off one of their own? If we ran our foreign policy based on murder, a lot of countries would be screwed.

 

Remember: One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. J. Stalin

 

The whole thing is agenda driven.

[spidermike007]

No reason for concern. He got elected by ignorant shock comments and insults. That has worn off. No policy, smarts, negotiating ability, political IQ, dignity, grace, or relationship to truth or even God. He is on his way out. Few will miss this ignoramus. And his empire crumbles.

[Tug]

Donald is green with envy he would love to do the same to any who dare disagree with him 

[Opl]

4 minutes ago, Tug said:

Donald is green with envy he would love to do the same to any who dare disagree with him 

Flashback: Khashoggi Was Banned From Appearing in Saudi Media After Criticizing Trump

"The journalist was banned from “writing in newspapers, appearing on TV and attending conferences,” Middle East Eye reported in 2016. “This came after Khashoggi’s remarks during a presentation he made at a Washington think-tank on 10 November in which he was critical of Donald Trump’s ascension to the US presidency.”"

https://www.thewrap.com/flashback-jamal-khashoggi-was-banned-from-appearing-in-saudi-media-for-criticizing-donald-trump/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-bans-khashoggi-writing-media-appearances-after-trump-remarks-1801958864

 

 

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, animalmagic said:

If, as he claims, the evidence on the tape has such momentous import that would influence the steps he must take with a major ally, to the extent of being damaging to the US economy and jobs, then he is duty bound to listen to the tape.  

Eisenhower recognised his duty before he became president and saw first hand the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps.

 

Duty bound. A fascinating concept. But I do not believe it is relevant with Trump. I do not beleive he considers his duties when making a decision or an inane statement. 

[bristolboy]

9 hours ago, freebyrd said:

Huh?, you have things ???? mister. I've never believed a single word he has uttered. I suggest you do some homework, re-read this thread and the comments. I am as anti-Trump as they come. They really must do things differently in Bristol....

Well, for one thing, they understand what "inane" means.

[quandow]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

"He told me that he had nothing to do with it," Trump said, adding that "many people" also said the crown prince had no knowledge of the killing.

Yet many MORE people (INCLUDING the CIA) told you he DID order the murder.

 

Oh, I forgot: the pussy-grabber-in-chief is a fan of alternative facts.

[lvr181]

I can understand Trump's "reticence". He won't even address the problem of over 300 of his own people killed so far this year by crazy gunmen in his own country. FAILED again.

[Credo]

I suspect it's gruesome.   Bone chilling.

 

[Opl]

As Turkey maintains pressure on Saudi power, an editorialist of the pro-government newspaper Yeni Safak announces on Monday the imminent publication of the famous soundtracks proving the assassination  of  Jamal Khashoggi in the  Saudi Consulate of Istanbul while Washington has refused to negotiate the extradition of Fethullah Gülen with Ankara.

" The conversations among the murderers, their conversations with Riyadh after committing the murder, dialogues that will prove the crown prince was the one who directly gave the order, perhaps the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Egyptian intelligence's role in the incident, and as a matter of fact, information on Israeli intelligence's "expertise" or on the U.S. leg of the murder may be revealed."

https://www.yenisafak.com/en/columns/ibrahimkaragul/the-audio-recordings-of-the-khashoggi-case-will-be-released-today-or-this-week-a-quake-will-take-place-in-the-saudi-palace-and-the-crown-prince-will-bite-the-dust-counter-coup-the-alliance-that-sold-out-jerusalem-may-collapse-2046762

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Opl

[Prairieboy]

22 hours ago, bristolboy said:

You are actually quoting cryingdick. The party who apparently believes that all that stands between the USA's economy and disaster is trade with Saudi Arabia.  I just cited his quote about hoping for increased oil production in the USA.

And where did you come up with the factoid that Canadian Crude is being sold for less than $15 a barrel? That's just plain false.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=candian+crude+oil+price&oq=candian+crude+oil+price&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4096j1j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

If you check the date on your link you will note that the price quoted was in 2007 - 11 years ago.  The price shown below is from Nov 16, 2018!   https://oilprice.com/oil-price-charts   Western Canadian Select  14.68

Edited November 20, 2018 by Prairieboy
Adding information.