lannarebirth Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, bristolboy said: No, the reason that the price of gas is low is that Trump lied to the Saudis. He promised to not allow the Iranians to sell any oil but instead granted waivers to several countries. That's true, but the Saudi fiasco is what made the reneging on that promise feasable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMHERE Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 A tragedy that has happened so many times in the past to those that rock the political boat. Hope POTUS uses this to assist making America great again. A dissident that knew what was coming, I don't care. I do care about the price of oil and how it affects the USA. Wonder how many the British crown has had murdered? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: That's true, but the Saudi fiasco is what made the reneging on that promise feasable. Finally somebody gets it. Trump can always pull it out again if the saudis don't go along in the future. The Prince is living on borrowed time if Trump changes his mind. If they don't buy arms why not a little regime change? That's good for arms sales and the Israelis would love it. The prince now lives by Trump and dies by Trump. Otherwise he faces being beheaded. Edited November 21, 2018 by Cryingdick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: That's true, but the Saudi fiasco is what made the reneging on that promise feasable. Except that the Saudis and the Russians have indicated that they are now going to seriously cut back on production going into the future. I think the simplest explanation is always the best. Trump was faced with the prospect of high oil prices so he acted for a short term benefit. You think these other parties are going to take his word again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Just now, bristolboy said: Except that the Saudis and the Russians have indicated that they are now going to seriously cut back on production going into the future. I think the simplest explanation is always the best. Trump was faced with the prospect of high oil prices so he acted for a short term benefit. You think these other parties are going to take his word again? No, I don't. But they will always act in their own interest and will be more than happy to undercut other producers if their country's budgets demand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Except that the Saudis and the Russians have indicated that they are now going to seriously cut back on production going into the future. I think the simplest explanation is always the best. Trump was faced with the prospect of high oil prices so he acted for a short term benefit. You think these other parties are going to take his word again? Trump has a blackmail tape in his pocket. He can always claim later that new info came in and use this. If the Saudis do not buy USA arms in sufficient quantities or get uppity over oil it's game over. The ironic thing is they need our weapons and training. It would be pretty funny if we embedded kill switches in the computers in their weapons systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Just now, Cryingdick said: Trump has a blackmail tape in his pocket. He can always claim later that new info came in and use this. If the Saudis do not buy USA arms in sufficient quantities or get uppity over oil it's game over. The ironic thing is they need our weapons and training. It would be pretty funny if we embedded kill switches in the computers in their weapons systems. First of all, Trump isn't the only one with a blackmail tape in his pocket. Second, it seems that while the evidence is very close to being 100% incriminating, there's nothing in that tape that absolutely incriminates the Crown Prince. So I don't know what further leverage you're referring to. And if they need our weapons and training so much, then why does Trump defend the current situation by saying that the US needs all the jobs created by Saudi purchases? Can they or can't they do without the US? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, bristolboy said: First of all, Trump isn't the only one with a blackmail tape in his pocket. Second, it seems that while the evidence is very close to being 100% incriminating, there's nothing in that tape that absolutely incriminates the Crown Prince. So I don't know what further leverage you're referring to. And if they need our weapons and training so much, then why does Trump defend the current situation by saying that the US needs all the jobs created by Saudi purchases? Can they or can't they do without the US? Keeping the Saudis dependent on US weapons systems is all part of the program. The prince is a maniacal, psychopath but a good customer. We can discuss it later if the Saudis cut oil prices. So far oil is still in or near free fall. No the Saudis would be in a big world of hurt without the US. They would need China to gear up after market parts factories to keep their planes going so they can bomb Yemen. Trump is right that it isn't above the Chinese to do so. So that's where it is at this point. The US wants cheap oil and the Saudis to have weapons supplied by the US. I am surprised this seems to be beyond your grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cryingdick said: Keeping the Saudis dependent on US weapons systems is all part of the program. The prince is a maniacal, psychopath but a good customer. We can discuss it later if the Saudis cut oil prices. So far oil is still in or near free fall. No the Saudis would be in a big world of hurt without the US. They would need China to gear up after market parts factories to keep their planes going so they can bomb Yemen. Trump is right that it isn't above the Chinese to do so. So that's where it is at this point. The US wants cheap oil and the Saudis to have weapons supplied by the US. I am surprised this seems to be beyond your grasp. I wish I could say I was surprised by your post. The Saudis need oil at a price that can fund their economy. Without that price, which is pegged at at least $80 per barrel, they are in far more serious trouble than if they don't get advanced weapons from the USA. The existential threat facing Saudi Arabia isn't Iran, it's bankruptcy. All Saudi Arabia has to do is revert to its production level before it increased output in response to Trump's entreaties. Russia the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, bristolboy said: I wish I could say I was surprised by your post. The Saudis need oil at a price that can fund their economy. Without that price, which is pegged at at least $80 per barrel, they are in far more serious trouble than if they don't get advanced weapons from the USA. The existential threat facing Saudi Arabia isn't Iran, it's bankruptcy. All Saudi Arabia has to do is revert to its production level before it increased output in response to Trump's entreaties. Russia the same. Yes, I am saying the Saudis now have very big problems. They have exhausted their cash reserves in recent years. They are only around 5 years away from bankruptcy. They need to sell oil they won't get $80 a barrel right now or in the near future. If the prince gets cute his head will roll. Edited November 21, 2018 by Cryingdick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, bristolboy said: I wish I could say I was surprised by your post. The Saudis need oil at a price that can fund their economy. Without that price, which is pegged at at least $80 per barrel, they are in far more serious trouble than if they don't get advanced weapons from the USA. The existential threat facing Saudi Arabia isn't Iran, it's bankruptcy. All Saudi Arabia has to do is revert to its production level before it increased output in response to Trump's entreaties. Russia the same. All true, but will they, and more importantly, can they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Just now, Cryingdick said: Yes, I am saying the Saudis now have very big problems. They have exhausted their cash reserves in recent years. They are only around 5 years away from bankruptcy. They need to sell oil they won't get $80 a barrel right now or in the near future. Really? Why not if they lower production back to where it was before the summer? And the Russians do likewise? Keep in mind that production was raised only because Trump asked them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Really? Why not if they lower production back to where it was before the summer? And the Russians do likewise? Keep in mind that production was raised only because Trump asked them to. Trump can kill the prince I can't spell it out more clearly. If the prince betrays Trump he needs to find a bigger hole to hide in than Saddam. Part of the reason for this is pressure from with in KSA itself. That is in another thread. Edited November 21, 2018 by Cryingdick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyezhov Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 hours ago, JAG said: Except that it isn't an internal affair. It is quite an international affair. Mr Kashoggi was a resident of the United States (which rather involves the US), and was murdered by agents of the Saudi regime, in a third country (Turkey). How did Mr. Kashoggi get his residency? If he was whacked in the US it would be one thing, but he wasnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Cryingdick said: Trump can kill the prince I can't spell it out more clearly. If the prince betrays Trump he needs to find a bigger hole to hide in than Saddam. Part of the reason for this is pressure from with in KSA itself. That is in another thread. No, I don't think so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyezhov Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Cryingdick said: Finally somebody gets it. Trump can always pull it out again if the saudis don't go along in the future. The Prince is living on borrowed time if Trump changes his mind. If they don't buy arms why not a little regime change? That's good for arms sales and the Israelis would love it. The prince now lives by Trump and dies by Trump. Otherwise he faces being beheaded. Geopolitics is a nasty business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Nyezhov said: Geopolitics is a nasty business. Trump campaigned on being able to be a nasty business man. I am not sure why any of this is a surprise to people that go on vacations in airplanes or drive cars. Al Gore gets cheap gas for his private jet. Edited November 21, 2018 by Cryingdick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 minute ago, lannarebirth said: All true, but will they, and more importantly, can they. Actually, I think you've got it reversed. Of course they can. As to whether they will, why wouldn't they? All they would be doing is cutting back to levels where they were before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Actually, I think you've got it reversed. Of course they can. As to whether they will, why wouldn't they? All they would be doing is cutting back to levels where they were before. Is that all? All we are doing is controlling the prices so we don't have rationing like before in the 70s? trump is bankrupting the saudis on fuel prices while at the same time insisting they buy arms from the US. I can assure you that he is selling them products that are very proprietary. So he is undermining the prince on oil prices and is locking the saudis into arms deals they can't afford. He is bankrupting them on both sides pressure to sell gas low and buy arms high. Guns are expensive when you are a barbaric, short sighted, maniac like the prince. That being said they still wouldn't kick him out of a gogo bar in Pattaya. The Saudis have only pledged $14.5 billion thus far. They can't afford it. Hopefully that means in this sick twisted world that they can no longer afford to bomb Yemen. If the Saudis betray Trump it would be easy to supply Yemen. Venezuela is being declared a terrorist country. The sanctions will ensure that the USA control another of the worlds biggest oil reserves. There will be sanctions but later obviously Brazil will get exempted. I am not saying any of this is right but it is easy to do if you are in Trump's shoes. Edited November 21, 2018 by Cryingdick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Actually, I think you've got it reversed. Of course they can. As to whether they will, why wouldn't they? All they would be doing is cutting back to levels where they were before. What I meant to say is can they and achieve their objectives? They are clearly a major producer but it is a global market and sometimes the weakest link is the producer that sets the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: What I meant to say is can they and achieve their objectives? They are clearly a major producer but it is a global market and sometimes the weakest link is the producer that sets the price. Let's just say other OPEC countries aren't too pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyezhov Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Cryingdick said: I am not saying any of this is right but it is easy to do if you are in Trump's shoes. The whole purpose of this controversy is to attack Trump. The left picks and choose which foreign incidents are worthy of moral outrage to serve their domestic political purposes. Its going to be their downfall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 PT will do the right thing knowing the cards that have been dealt to him upon becoming POTUS! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Nyezhov said: The whole purpose of this controversy is to attack Trump. The left picks and choose which foreign incidents are worthy of moral outrage to serve their domestic political purposes. Its going to be their downfall. It is argued that Trump has businesses in Saudi Arabia. That is a poignant argument. However if that is the case he has said he could care less and that he has been losing money since being president. If any accusation could be made the easiest case against Trump is that he is drunk on power. He could have stayed a real estate man on the east coast and his life would be much easier. He is in the drivers seat with the Saudis. he doesn't mind Putin and the control vast reserves. Trump says "Merkel opposed me, she is a terrible feminist, I met with Putin, we decided to cut their oil and natural gas. We chuckled as they buy nuclear power from France and Holland. It's really too bad" ???? Edited to say the trump quote in this post is my take on Trump. Edited November 21, 2018 by Cryingdick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 5 hours ago, khwaibah said: You get a GOLD STAR. id rather have the cash alternative thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 America now occupies the moral low ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReMarKable Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Cryingdick said: Finally somebody gets it. Trump can always pull it out again if the saudis don't go along in the future. The Prince is living on borrowed time if Trump changes his mind. If they don't buy arms why not a little regime change? That's good for arms sales and the Israelis would love it. The prince now lives by Trump and dies by Trump. Otherwise he faces being beheaded. At his age, he will be dead before anything happens to the Prince. He is already senile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryingdick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, ReMarKable said: At his age, he will be dead before anything happens to the Prince. He is already senile. Are you really that obtuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 39 minutes ago, Cryingdick said: It is argued that Trump has businesses in Saudi Arabia. That is a poignant argument. However if that is the case he has said he could care less and that he has been losing money since being president. If any accusation could be made the easiest case against Trump is that he is drunk on power. He could have stayed a real estate man on the east coast and his life would be much easier. He is in the drivers seat with the Saudis. he doesn't mind Putin and the control vast reserves. Trump says "Merkel opposed me, she is a terrible feminist, I met with Putin, we decided to cut their oil and natural gas. We chuckled as they buy nuclear power from France and Holland. It's really too bad" ???? Edited to say the trump quote in this post is my take on Trump. Trump may be making money in Saudi Arabia or losing money. What everyone should know by now is that what Trump will lie or invent facts when it suits him. Which is pretty much always. And what evidence do we have that Trump is in the driver's seat with the Saudis? What has he compelled the Saudis to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Cryingdick said: Trump campaigned on being able to be a nasty business man. I am not sure why any of this is a surprise to people that go on vacations in airplanes or drive cars. Al Gore gets cheap gas for his private jet. There you go making things up again. I guess it doesn't matter so much since it's massively irrelevant but Al Gore doesn't have a private jet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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