State of Thailand

I find all the speculation pretty amazing!

War with Singapore? Oh, Come On!

I have chosen to live here; and to bring up my children here.

I feel a little vindicated when a UNICEF report lists the UK and The US as the worst places in the Western World to grow up.

I am not starry eyed about LOS nor anywhere else. Is there anywhere one could choose to live that would meet all one’s requirements?

I cannot afford to live in Oz-police reports notwithstanding.. though it is probably what I would choose for my kids, could I choose..and on what basis?…relative multi-cultural opportunity and affluence…

So to LOS:

It is true Sonthi said he wanted ‘his toys’ back. There was, however, no suggestion that there would be any resort to illegal or military means to ‘recover’ them.

Deals are always being done; and nowhere more so than in LOS.

Clearly any suggestion that Thai ‘National Assets’ have been sold is an emotive issue. The questions are ..were they, and were they acquired and disposed of ‘illegally?

Actually, I do not understand why Thailand-its people, its government, its military, its culture-in so far as they can speak-is on the one hand so defensive and on the other so boisterous. If It were a person one would say that such a mixture of aggressive posturing and craven self-pitying signified a serious personality disorder!

In so far as it is possible to guess at the truth of this matter it would appear that, while awaiting evidence, it looks to be probable that Thaksin manipulated what passes for ‘the system’ to his own and his friends’ economic advantage. He would hardly have been the first politician so to do. As I understand it he made four mistakes. One was to operate on such a scale that even vested interests that supported him baulked at the possible consequence; the second was to proceed with his enterprises without the secure backing of either the Police or the Army; the third was to underestimate the resilience and influence of the monarchy, the Privy Council and, for want of a better term, ‘The Establishment’; and the fourth was to go Abroad without securing his base.

All of this amounts to hubris on a grand scale!

It has been suggested that Thaksin built his telecoms ‘empire’ on the back of serious manipulation of ‘the rules’ and that he sold that empire under equally doubtful arrangements.

Whatever the demerits or merits of Sonthi and co., as of now, they have not produced rushed or faked evidence to prosecute Thaksin. It is hardly credible that Thaksin would have left a simple transparent paper trail of any malfeasance. So there is work to do. On the other hand they probably do have to come up with some justification for their coup..! If only to avoid another one!

Personally, rather than the business dealings, I favour prosecuting the use of extra-judicial killings of so-called drug dealers, and Muslim ‘militants’ ; these were both horrendous and if true and widely reported would rapidly alienate any residual ‘foreign’ sympathy for Thaksin.

Death squads do not, usually, get a good press in the west!

It is unbelievable that Temasek were unaware of the possible ramifications of the deal they were doing. One question is: Why did they want to acquire Shin Corp? Was/Is it really such a cash cow that the opportunity to acquire it could not be passed up? Were there not analysts who have foreseen what has come to pass and had already calculated that there was/is a profit in Thailand’s ‘need’ to re-acquire these assets?

Sonthi asks how it is that Singapore, I quote: “such a small nation”, has the resources to buy up Thai assets. Well he might care to look at Temasek’s portfolio; and he might like to take a look at how Investment Banks, Hedge Funds, Pension Funds manage to be bigger players in the financial markets than some countries. This, surely, can only be PR. He must know.

It might be more profitable to ask why Thailand, a potentially rich nation, with massive natural resources, huge foreign investment and awash with competent human ‘capital’ is enmired in poverty and corruption, with a rich/poor income divide that defies description and an education system that is a farce. I am no great supporter of ‘capitalism’, nor ‘globalisation’, but when one looks on the rotten heart of the ‘patronage system’, which is actually not unlike a sort of state feudalism, one has to feel that a change could not be for the worse. On the other hand Thailand ‘works’, which cannot be said of Afghanistan, Iraq, Nigeria, The Ivory Coast, or a host of other places,,,,,,,,!! Etc.etc.!!

And as someone posted: I don’t see anyone, as of now, being shot/arrested for any political reason…

So…What is there to complain of about Thailand apart from the usual moans about Thai driving, bureaucracy, cannot own land, difficulties of visas, duplicity of wives etc.? In my view Not A Lot…

Agree/Disagree??!

Let the Doom and Gloom begin!!!!!!!!

I feel a little vindicated when a UNICEF report lists the UK and The US as the worst places in the Western World to grow up.

Have you got a link to that report? I'd like a read of it.

Better yet send a copy direct to GuestHouse.

QUOTE(srisatch @ 2007-02-17 19:49:35) I feel a little vindicated when a UNICEF report lists the UK and The US as the worst places in the Western World to grow up.

lol........sorry, but Thailand is not Western world, nor is it first world. It is and always will be third world. You obviously didnt see this report......

US ranked 23

UK 41

Thailand 76.......below Namibia and that is before the "glorious coup". good luck raising your kids in a junta

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/ha...lideShows_ssi_5

What is there to complain of about Thailand

How about the environmental destruction past, present, and future.

Chownah

Ahh are you a retiree?

War with Singapore? Oh, Come On!

Come on indeed. Except the current government isn't acting rationally or logically by any measure. Flip flopping every week isn't a sign of an operating government. Their recent diplomatic spats mirror those of small school children who are jealous of the more successful one who has more toys.

I have chosen to live here; and to bring up my children here.

Do you want a prize for that? Good for you..you chose to bring your kids up in a 3rd world environment.

I feel a little vindicated when a UNICEF report lists the UK and The US as the worst places in the Western World to grow up.

A simplistic and far left report that praises "virtues" such as contentment with their environment or some such. Still..going by your unfounded "happiness report" Thailand still ranks far lower than the UK or U.S. and the western world as a whole.

I am not starry eyed about LOS nor anywhere else. Is there anywhere one could choose to live that would meet all one's requirements?

You seem to be quite starry eyed. Did you commit your pension or savings here?

I cannot afford to live in Oz-police reports notwithstanding.. though it is probably what I would choose for my kids, could I choose..and on what basis?…relative multi-cultural opportunity and affluence…

Interesting..police reports eh?

It is true Sonthi said he wanted 'his toys' back. There was, however, no suggestion that there would be any resort to illegal or military means to 'recover' them.

The type of saber rattling engaged by the CNS belongs pre WW2. It shows that the current govt is immature and has no bearing in reality.

Clearly any suggestion that Thai 'National Assets' have been sold is an emotive issue. The questions are ..were they, and were they acquired and disposed of 'illegally?

They were considered legal transactions by the previous government. Not all countries have the dubious "luxury" of changing governments after every business transaction and then renegging on the deal itself. conducting business in this fashion is a surefire way of telling international investors that you really aren't serious at all or you are engaged in outright theft instead of practical solutions.

In so far as it is possible to guess at the truth of this matter it would appear that, while awaiting evidence, it looks to be probable that Thaksin manipulated what passes for 'the system' to his own and his friends' economic advantage. He would hardly have been the first politician so to do. As I understand it he made four mistakes. One was to operate on such a scale that even vested interests that supported him baulked at the possible consequence; the second was to proceed with his enterprises without the secure backing of either the Police or the Army; the third was to underestimate the resilience and influence of the monarchy, the Privy Council and, for want of a better term, 'The Establishment'; and the fourth was to go Abroad without securing his base.

In otherwords Thaksin was doing what every other Thai politician in his position would have probably done (or wish they could do). This is nothing new.

It has been suggested that Thaksin built his telecoms 'empire' on the back of serious manipulation of 'the rules' and that he sold that empire under equally doubtful arrangements.

Whatever the demerits or merits of Sonthi and co., as of now, they have not produced rushed or faked evidence to prosecute Thaksin. It is hardly credible that Thaksin would have left a simple transparent paper trail of any malfeasance. So there is work to do. On the other hand they probably do have to come up with some justification for their coup..! If only to avoid another one!

Personally, rather than the business dealings, I favour prosecuting the use of extra-judicial killings of so-called drug dealers, and Muslim 'militants' ; these were both horrendous and if true and widely reported would rapidly alienate any residual 'foreign' sympathy for Thaksin.

As of yet they haven't brought up any sufficient evidence to show fraudulent transactions. I believe too many people would be implicated so they are keeping it all under wraps or they plan on staging a kangaroo court. The massacres aren't brought up much because quite a few members of the current junta were complicit in the "military actions."

It is unbelievable that Temasek were unaware of the possible ramifications of the deal they were doing. One question is: Why did they want to acquire Shin Corp? Was/Is it really such a cash cow that the opportunity to acquire it could not be passed up? Were there not analysts who have foreseen what has come to pass and had already calculated that there was/is a profit in Thailand's 'need' to re-acquire these assets?

Temasek was acting as a private entity it doesn't matter what they considered or didn't consider. The failures of the Thai government are wholely within the responsibility of the nation or corporate entity residing in the nation signing the deal. Simply stating that Thaksin took over everything just illustrates the degree of incompetence or denial at the heart of Thailand.

Sonthi asks how it is that Singapore, I quote: "such a small nation", has the resources to buy up Thai assets. Well he might care to look at Temasek's portfolio; and he might like to take a look at how Investment Banks, Hedge Funds, Pension Funds manage to be bigger players in the financial markets than some countries. This, surely, can only be PR. He must know.

This is called..Capitalism. Read about it sometime it's what the last few hundred years of global development is based on.

Edited February 17, 200719 yr by wintermute

This is called..Capitalism. Read about it sometime it's what the last few hundred years of global development is based on.

Depends whether you see it as global development, or lack thereof.

This is called..Capitalism. Read about it sometime it's what the last few hundred years of global development is based on.

Depends whether you see it as global development, or lack thereof.

I suppose we can all live in treehouses and feed off of leaves and sunflowers but this is a fantasy relegated to the disenfranchised minority who subsist off the generosity of the "capitalist scum" who have chosen to do something with their lives.

Third world? I'd say more like second world....

And those who've been here for a long time can probably give us a bit more perspective on how much Thailand has improved in the past several decades. They are going about it their own way. Making mistakes along the way, as is their right. I suppose we can thank our stars that at least Thailand isn't mired in another country's civil war, in which they have no business being..

Ahh are you a retiree?

War with Singapore? Oh, Come On!

Come on indeed. Except the current government isn't acting rationally or logically by any measure. Flip flopping every week isn't a sign of an operating government. Their recent diplomatic spats mirror those of small school children who are jealous of the more successful one who has more toys.

I have chosen to live here; and to bring up my children here.

Do you want a prize for that? Good for you..you chose to bring your kids up in a 3rd world environment.

Why do you assume that they are in a 3rd world environment? Prizes??They important to you? We live in a First World environment within , I suppose, something approaching Second World environment. The children have parents and grand parents, decent schools, an extended family, consumer goods, computers, books, plane tickets to Europe...goodness they even wear shoes. What patronising arrogance and ignorance you doiplay

I feel a little vindicated when a UNICEF report lists the UK and The US as the worst places in the Western World to grow up.

A simplistic and far left report that praises "virtues" such as contentment with their environment or some such. Still..going by your unfounded "happiness report" Thailand still ranks far lower than the UK or U.S. and the western world as a whole.

A simplistic and far left report?? Is that your view of UNICEF? With wehat woulod you have it replaced. Have you any experience of what they do for children in say Cambodia or Zambia??

I am not starry eyed about LOS nor anywhere else. Is there anywhere one could choose to live that would meet all one's requirements?

You seem to be quite starry eyed. Did you commit your pension or savings here?

No!!

I cannot afford to live in Oz-police reports notwithstanding.. though it is probably what I would choose for my kids, could I choose..and on what basis?…relative multi-cultural opportunity and affluence…

Interesting..police reports eh?

Refers to Thaksin would need a Police Report to get an Oz Visa

[/bp

It is true Sonthi said he wanted 'his toys' back. There was, however, no suggestion that there would be any resort to illegal or military means to 'recover' them.

The type of saber rattling engaged by the CNS belongs pre WW2. It shows that the current govt is immature and has no bearing in reality.

How do you work that one out. I supposer there is no 'sabre rattling in the US?

Clearly any suggestion that Thai 'National Assets' have been sold is an emotive issue. The questions are ..were they, and were they acquired and disposed of 'illegally?

They were considered legal transactions by the previous government. Not all countries have the dubious "luxury" of changing governments after every business transaction and then renegging on the deal itself. conducting business in this fashion is a surefire way of telling international investors that you really aren't serious at all or you are engaged in outright theft instead of practical solutions.

Well that is the point. They were considered legal transactions because they were undertaken by the leader of the government. Did you have Shin Shares? I was carefully NOT saying that "Thaksin was bad" nor saying "CNS is good" Rule of law is critical

In so far as it is possible to guess at the truth of this matter it would appear that, while awaiting evidence, it looks to be probable that Thaksin manipulated what passes for 'the system' to his own and his friends' economic advantage. He would hardly have been the first politician so to do. As I understand it he made four mistakes. One was to operate on such a scale that even vested interests that supported him baulked at the possible consequence; the second was to proceed with his enterprises without the secure backing of either the Police or the Army; the third was to underestimate the resilience and influence of the monarchy, the Privy Council and, for want of a better term, 'The Establishment'; and the fourth was to go Abroad without securing his base.

In otherwords Thaksin was doing what every other Thai politician in his position would have probably done (or wish they could do). This is nothing new.

And not just Thai

It has been suggested that Thaksin built his telecoms 'empire' on the back of serious manipulation of 'the rules' and that he sold that empire under equally doubtful arrangements.

Whatever the demerits or merits of Sonthi and co., as of now, they have not produced rushed or faked evidence to prosecute Thaksin. It is hardly credible that Thaksin would have left a simple transparent paper trail of any malfeasance. So there is work to do. On the other hand they probably do have to come up with some justification for their coup..! If only to avoid another one!

Personally, rather than the business dealings, I favour prosecuting the use of extra-judicial killings of so-called drug dealers, and Muslim 'militants' ; these were both horrendous and if true and widely reported would rapidly alienate any residual 'foreign' sympathy for Thaksin.

As of yet they haven't brought up any sufficient evidence to show fraudulent transactions. I believe too many people would be implicated so they are keeping it all under wraps or they plan on staging a kangaroo court. The massacres aren't brought up much because quite a few members of the current junta were complicit in the "military actions."

It is unbelievable that Temasek were unaware of the possible ramifications of the deal they were doing. One question is: Why did they want to acquire Shin Corp? Was/Is it really such a cash cow that the opportunity to acquire it could not be passed up? Were there not analysts who have foreseen what has come to pass and had already calculated that there was/is a profit in Thailand's 'need' to re-acquire these assets?

Temasek was acting as a private entity it doesn't matter what they considered or didn't consider. The failures of the Thai government are wholely within the responsibility of the nation or corporate entity residing in the nation signing the deal. Simply stating that Thaksin took over everything just illustrates the degree of incompetence or denial at the heart of Thailand.

Sonthi asks how it is that Singapore, I quote: "such a small nation", has the resources to buy up Thai assets. Well he might care to look at Temasek's portfolio; and he might like to take a look at how Investment Banks, Hedge Funds, Pension Funds manage to be bigger players in the financial markets than some countries. This, surely, can only be PR. He must know.

This is called..Capitalism. Read about it sometime it's what the last few hundred years of global development is based on.

So what is your point?

QUOTE(srisatch @ 2007-02-17 19:49:35)

lol........sorry, but Thailand is not Western world, nor is it first world. It is and always will be third world. You obviously didnt see this report......

US ranked 23

UK 41

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/ha...lideShows_ssi_5

I did read the report. I just did not quote it. And your pessimism about Thailand makes one wonder why you ever come here, be here, read about here.

What on earth is 'bringing your kids up under a junta' supposed to mean? You think bringing up kids anywhere. let alone under George Dubya is easy, better? One wonders about your Forum name??

Chownah..I agree..but I was not trying to either rate Thailand against some scale of perfection, or currently fashionable criteria..I also think the lack of any kind of emission controls is a disaster area...I just wanted to know what people thought was 'a problem' in LOS. How exactly is the 'Junta' impacting on bingobongo's life? Is He/She even here?

As to Wintermute...well Mute might be better. I have said elsewhere that I fail to understand why people use the Forum to vent their exasperations in viciously personal unpleasantness. Whatever may be the downside of life in LOS the studied manners and politeness of everyday life are a rest cure from the UK and the US

Third world? I'd say more like second world....

And those who've been here for a long time can probably give us a bit more perspective on how much Thailand has improved in the past several decades. They are going about it their own way. Making mistakes along the way, as is their right. I suppose we can thank our stars that at least Thailand isn't mired in another country's civil war, in which they have no business being..

Thailand has "improved" in a way that the poor saw a small to modest improvement of their standard of life, while the comparatively few rich and middle classes saw vast improvements, leaving Thailand with a tremendously huge gap between rich and poor.

Apart from the obvious political problems there are serious problems of land right issues, there are serious problems of lack of infrastructure in many provinces so that large sectors of society are forced to migrate into industrial centres. Thailand has an increasing problem with crime, especially violent crime.

And Thailand may not intefere significantly on other's countries civil wars presently (they did though in the past - Cambodia, Burma), but they have their own little civil war in the south, for which there is no end in sight.

This is called..Capitalism. Read about it sometime it's what the last few hundred years of global development is based on.

Depends whether you see it as global development, or lack thereof.

I suppose we can all live in treehouses and feed off of leaves and sunflowers but this is a fantasy relegated to the disenfranchised minority who subsist off the generosity of the "capitalist scum" who have chosen to do something with their lives.

I rarely resort to personal mudslinging, but you now stand atop the list of the most ignorant posters on Thai Visa if you believe that the disenfranchised are in the minority. We need not even delve into your twisted imagined connection between generosity and subsistence living.

I rarely resort to personal mudslinging, but you now stand atop the list of the most ignorant posters on Thai Visa if you believe that the disenfranchised are in the minority. We need not even delve into your twisted imagined connection between generosity and subsistence living.

This is called..Capitalism. Read about it sometime it's what the last few hundred years of global development is based on.

Depends whether you see it as global development, or lack thereof.

I suppose we can all live in treehouses and feed off of leaves and sunflowers but this is a fantasy relegated to the disenfranchised minority who subsist off the generosity of the "capitalist scum" who have chosen to do something with their lives.

I rarely resort to personal mudslinging, but you now stand atop the list of the most ignorant posters on Thai Visa if you believe that the disenfranchised are in the minority. We need not even delve into your twisted imagined connection between generosity and subsistence living.

Those that criticize globalization tend to have less to put on the table as an alternative. If you have practical alternatives to it i'd like to hear it otherwise put up or shut up.

To all posters: resort to flaming and the thread will be closed and warnings passed out.

Mind your manners here please.

And lets try to keep it on topic, at least in the first couple of pages.

This is called..Capitalism. Read about it sometime it's what the last few hundred years of global development is based on.

Depends whether you see it as global development, or lack thereof.

I suppose we can all live in treehouses and feed off of leaves and sunflowers but this is a fantasy relegated to the disenfranchised minority who subsist off the generosity of the "capitalist scum" who have chosen to do something with their lives.

I rarely resort to personal mudslinging, but you now stand atop the list of the most ignorant posters on Thai Visa if you believe that the disenfranchised are in the minority. We need not even delve into your twisted imagined connection between generosity and subsistence living.

Those that criticize globalization tend to have less to put on the table as an alternative. If you have practical alternatives to it i'd like to hear it otherwise put up or shut up.

I have put up to shut you up but you keep ranting. The disenfranchised are the majority on this planet by a long shot, not the minority you fool. Your personal ethics that associate generosity with subsistence living are, in my humble opinion, tragically flawed. But that is but my subjective opinion and you are free to argue otherwise, but I shall not bother further as we are separated by a quasi-religious gap and I find your position personally deplorable.

As for the failiure of globalization, that is a subject too broad and complex to tackle in this forum. However, I would direct yout attention to a few authors on the subject who have written accessible books upon the matter: Joseph Stiglitz who was a 2001 recipient of the Nobel Economics Award, or perhaps Canadian essayist John Ralston Saul.

Now go back to your little sand-filled sacred room filled with votive candles, with Icon images of Ronald Regan and Margaret Thatcher with halos around their heads hung upon the walls, and I assume with FOX News (or whatever is your local dispensary of Rupert Murdoch wisdom) playing in the background, and pray you one day see the light and extricate your head out from under the floor. And rest assured, I do not live in a tree house, but I do eat leaves and so should you.

Edited February 18, 200719 yr by Johpa

Johpa,

You have some interesting points, very strongly said. Your political and economic views are interesting and hold some truth, but this was lost in your no holds barred attack on wintermute. I think you do yourself a disservice.

Wintermute, though his arguments may or may not be stronger than yours, clearly wins this discussion, due to his greater self control. Wintermute may have flamed a little too, but your last paragraph is awful. All you good work and interesting points were undone.

Relax, my friend, this is an internet forum, not life or death.

Whatever may be the downside of life in LOS the studied manners and politeness of everyday life are a rest cure from the UK and the US

Amen to that. 9 months a year in Germany are all I can bear before I need a rest cure in LOS. You don't hear of many Thais succumbing to stress

perhaps the U.K and U.S.A would be wonderful places to bring up children and live in harmony if the Governments over the last 100years had barred all in sundrie from settling in our countries (survey in my local pub in leafy surrey is 100% in agreement )

perhaps the U.K and U.S.A would be wonderful places to bring up children and live in harmony if the Governments over the last 100years had barred all in sundrie from settling in our countries (survey in my local pub in leafy surrey is 100% in agreement )

Careful with this talk, BW. Do you want to send all our colourful cousins away and put an army of useless social workers on the dole?

Johpa,

You have some interesting points, very strongly said. Your political and economic views are interesting and hold some truth, but this was lost in your no holds barred attack on wintermute. I think you do yourself a disservice.

Wintermute, though his arguments may or may not be stronger than yours, clearly wins this discussion, due to his greater self control. Wintermute may have flamed a little too, but your last paragraph is awful. All you good work and interesting points were undone.

Relax, my friend, this is an internet forum, not life or death.

Well I do beg forgiveness for failing to note, or at least sense, that there was a higher authority present. But how very Thai of you, me lord, to judge others based upon the perceived face presented and not upon substance.

By the way, despite your condemnation, and after thoughtful reconsideration, I still really like that last paragraph in my previous post.

Summary:

Thailand is a wonderful country - beautiful landscapes, beaches and people with first class shopping malls but.....

Governed by a bunch of idiots (past and especially the present).

If people with a little more brains were to run this country, Thailand will be the richest country in Asia.

Most people who whine about the state of Thailand are whinging about articles they've read in a newspaper which says much more about newspapers than it does about Thailand.

Summary:

Thailand is a wonderful country - beautiful landscapes, beaches and people with first class shopping malls but.....

Governed by a bunch of idiots (past and especially the present).

If people with a little more brains were to run this country, Thailand will be the richest country in Asia.

Don't know which Thailand you've been to but the one I live in is mostly rice paddy. Most of the good views have been cut down and the beaches have been mostly over developed....I guess we live in two different worlds.

If people with a little more brains were to run this country, Thailand will be the richest country in Asia.

One needs to look at the work ethic of who you're working with as well.

Johpa,

You have some interesting points, very strongly said. Your political and economic views are interesting and hold some truth, but this was lost in your no holds barred attack on wintermute. I think you do yourself a disservice.

Wintermute, though his arguments may or may not be stronger than yours, clearly wins this discussion, due to his greater self control. Wintermute may have flamed a little too, but your last paragraph is awful. All you good work and interesting points were undone.

Relax, my friend, this is an internet forum, not life or death.

Well I do beg forgiveness for failing to note, or at least sense, that there was a higher authority present. But how very Thai of you, me lord, to judge others based upon the perceived face presented and not upon substance.

By the way, despite your condemnation, and after thoughtful reconsideration, I still really like that last paragraph in my previous post.

I am in complete agreement with you Johpa. That paragraph was close to poetry. Is it possible that living in Thaliand has caused some to accept the censorship role as de rigeur? Reminds me of the fundie nutters in the US, no shades of gray allowed and certainly no sense of humour!

To Wintermute,

Globalization mean enslaving people from other countries for your own profit since the law of your country prevent you to have slaves in your homeland.

Globalization mean producing in other countries without having to respect environmental laws of your own country.

Just a few supposedly good thing about the globalization.

At the rate people are loosing their jobs in your country to cheap labour in developing countries sooner than later it will backlash it already had in Central and South America.

What is there to complain of about Thailand

How about the environmental destruction past, present, and future.

Chownah

The reason Thailand is in such a wretched state is because the people cant or wont complain.. Too scared to step on some big-wigs (pooyai's) ego..Simply pathetic. They need to visit the wizard of oz and get some courage..

What is there to complain of about Thailand

How about the environmental destruction past, present, and future.

Chownah

The reason Thailand is in such a wretched state is because the people cant or wont complain.. Too scared to step on some big-wigs (pooyai's) ego..Simply pathetic. They need to visit the wizard of oz and get some courage..

The reason Thailand appears to you to be in a wretched state is because people like you can't or won't stop complaining. We're all enjoying ourselves over here at the party, come on over and join us, all we ask is that you obey the dress code - wear a smile!

What is there to complain of about Thailand

How about the environmental destruction past, present, and future.

Chownah

The reason Thailand is in such a wretched state is because the people cant or wont complain.. Too scared to step on some big-wigs (pooyai's) ego..Simply pathetic. They need to visit the wizard of oz and get some courage..

The reason Thailand appears to you to be in a wretched state is because people like you can't or won't stop complaining. We're all enjoying ourselves over here at the party, come on over and join us, all we ask is that you obey the dress code - wear a smile!

For my part, I can't praise LOS, warts and all, enough. When my stressed out exhausted body can't take any more I gladly jump a flight to that peaceful paradise to chill out and let myself be pampered. There may well be better holiday venues but after 25 years I haven't found one yet. Give a little credit where it's due. I have to visit many east European countries in the course of work and I cringe at the total disregard of environment and order. Everyone is so busy trying to get rich in a hurry, they have no time or interest in stopping to look what a mess they're making. Redefine the word wretched, you can't possibly judge these people by our standards: visit Pakistan, Cyprus, India - or top of the bill Slovakia and I guarantee you'll be just as appalled.