I'll tell you where the UK will go from here.
 
in the new year, May will propose another referendum. The choices; do you accept the deal on the table or do you wish to stay in the EU.

I hope you're right. Unfortunately Mrs May has shown little sign in making such a straightforward and sensible decision, and time is running out!

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1 hour ago, tebee said:

Brexit: The Abysmal Reality Of Becoming Poorer

The Forbes article that you linked to takes the BoE's worst case scenario and presents it as a forecast.

 

Is this really the best level of analysis and contribution you are capable of making?

Edited December 16, 20187 yr by My Thai Life

26 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I hope you're right. Unfortunately Mrs May has shown little sign in making such a straightforward and sensible decision, and time is running out!

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This is lurking in the background.

 

Latest news on the Terms of Withdrawal from EU (Referendum) Bill 2017-19

Bill to be read a second time on Friday 25 January 2019. 

Order for second reading debate on Friday 15 June 2018, read and discharged.

This Bill was presented to Parliament on Wednesday 6 September 2017. This is known as the first reading and there was no debate on the Bill at this stage.

This Bill is a Private Member’s Bill. If you wish to know more about this bill please contact its sponsor, Geraint Davies.

Summary of the Terms of Withdrawal from EU (Referendum) Bill 2017-19

A Bill to require the holding of a referendum to endorse the United Kingdom and Gibraltar exit package proposed by HM Government for withdrawal from the EU, or to decide to remain a member, following the completion of formal exit negotiations; and for connected purposes.

https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/termsofwithdrawalfromeureferendum.html

The reality is that according to the UK Office of National Statistics, exports in the last year to non-EU countries were £342 billion while exports to EU countries were £274 billion.

 

In the same period, the growth in exports continued to outstrip the growth in imports, almost halving the UK’s trade deficit from £23.4 billion to £15.8 billion. Most exceptionally, since the referendum, exports have increased by £111 billion to £610 billion.

Edited December 16, 20187 yr by My Thai Life

41 minutes ago, rixalex said:

So that's worked out very nicely for you hasn't it. You give yourself the two choices that you'd most prefer.

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I guess it's about the nitty gritty- this is where reality assumes the importance it should have had from the start.  The question would have to be specific to a deal.  There should be no ambiguity.

 

 

'Doris Karloff' weighs in:

 

The view of cartoonist Collignon in yesterday’s Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant:

 

Edited December 16, 20187 yr by damascase

Correct. And I did not know anything like as much then as I know now
 
One never knows what what doesn't know until one learns more.
 
What point are you trying to make?

The point is to have a vote in which everyone enters into it, including yourself, believing it to be binding and a one off - not least because that is what was promised by the the politicians who voted in favour of handing the decision over to the people, and what was explicitly promised by the Prime Minister - and to then subsequently have it discovered that there is a legal route that would enable those politicians to backtrack on that promise, does not somehow make it right for them to do that. Just because they CAN, doesn't mean they SHOULD.

It's a bit like the debate about whether a President can pardon himself. Trump has made noises about this and there seems to be some uncertainty whether he can or not. If it is proven that in law this is something he can do, should he do it? No, of course not. It would completely go against the spirit of democracy. And so would ignoring the result of the 2016 referendum. That's the point. Although I don't for a second expect you to get it.

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2 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Give the Irish a referendum on unification of Ireland...…..

 Should that be held in all of Ireland, the republic and northern Ireland, or  similar to the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, just Northern Ireland?

An all Ireland referendum would give a very different result to one held just in Northern Ireland as most Unionists are living in Northern Ireland. It is the people of that province who should have the choice, as guaranteed in the Good Friday agreement.

 

 

9 hours ago, baboon said:

I think we are broadly singing from the same hymnsheet. Yes, I think we should either revoke Article 50 until we get our act together or go with May's deal.

Is there any difference? As both your suggestions ignore the Democratic decision of the British people to exit this so called Union.

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

Is there any difference? As both your suggestions ignore the Democratic decision of the British people to exit this so called Union.

You are really determined to jump off the cliff, aren’t you? Well, at least the ‘hated EU’ won’t be stopping you. But don’t force other people to jump with you, please............

I'll tell you where the UK will go from here.
 
in the new year, May will propose another referendum. The choices; do you accept the deal on the table or do you wish to stay in the EU.

Then sadly you can stand by for massive civil unrest in the UK by rightfully angry people who voted leave.
Just read that blair..that scummy war criminal sociopath is up to his tricks again..all luvy duvy with the eu head honchos bout 2nd referendum etc.
The guy needs seen to big time!!!

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4 minutes ago, damascase said:

You are really determined to jump off the cliff, aren’t you? Well, at least the ‘hated EU’ won’t be stopping you. But don’t force other people to jump with you, please............

But you think it’s O.K to force the majority of the British people to remain in the disliked E.u. Against the decision they made, when they Democratically voted to exit. A decision that we were all told,would be a binding decision.

 

 

I guess it's about the nitty gritty- this is where reality assumes the importance it should have had from the start.  The question would have to be specific to a deal.  There should be no ambiguity.
 
 

The thing is, since remainers insist on this nonsense of not calling the referendum they desire a referendum, but rather a "people's vote", in a sad and desperate attempt to try and add extra credibility to the process that they are at the same time dismissing as pointless, you would have at least thought that with a name like that, it would be offering the choice for everyone to have their say.

By making it a choice between remain or a washed down leave, what exactly is the leave voter, who wants a proper leave, supposed to vote for? These are the people who won the last vote and now their opinion is the one to be sidelined and they are to be given no voice at all?

Ok well, all i can say is, if remainers do orchestrate the overturning of the last vote and then on top of that, the new vote is in effect a, "heads we win, tails you lose" affair, good luck with that. I'm not predicting some sort of wild rebellion but there will be a push back and in the end, ultimately, I do think remainers will wish they simply had just accepted their loss with grace and allowed Brexit the chance to succeed or fail. Then the country could have moved on, one way or the other. This way things are simply going to stagnate and fester.

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7 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You are wrong.

 

The 2016 referendum was not advisory.

 

 

.........or was David Cameron fibbing.

 

 

Listen.... and I mean go away and listen....to his Chatham House speech, then put your hand on your heart and state categorically that it said the referendum was advisory.

 

 

This could be interesting test of intelligence.

Cameron committed himself, his government and his party to comply with the result

 

But not parliament 

 

And he had a majority at the time

 

Not now

 

Do you understand?

 

FACTS

Grouse..you'll be happy that your hero..sociopath and war criminal blair is stirring it once again??

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The thing is, since remainers insist on this nonsense of not calling the referendum they desire a referendum, but rather a "people's vote", in a sad and desperate attempt to try and add extra credibility to the process that they are at the same time dismissing as pointless, you would have at least thought that with a name like that, it would be offering the choice for everyone to have their say.

By making it a choice between remain or a washed down leave, what exactly is the leave voter, who wants a proper leave, supposed to vote for? These are the people who won the last vote and now their opinion is the one to be sidelined and they are to be given no voice at all?

Ok well, all i can say is, if remainers do orchestrate the overturning of the last vote and then on top of that, the new vote is in effect a, "heads we win, tails you lose" affair, good luck with that. I'm not predicting some sort of wild rebellion but there will be a push back and in the end, ultimately, I do think remainers will wish they simply had just accepted their loss with grace and allowed Brexit the chance to succeed or fail. Then the country could have moved on, one way or the other. This way things are simply going to stagnate and fester.

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I would be prepared to see "Leave with no deal" as an option on the referendum.

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41 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Cameron committed himself, his government and his party to comply with the result

 

But not parliament 

 

And he had a majority at the time

 

Not now

 

Do you understand?

 

FACTS

 

 

I deal with FACTS at the time.

 

It was not advisory and Cameron was very clear in telling the British public EXACTLY what they were voting for....or against.

 

 

It is now up to parliament to deliver that.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I deal with FACTS at the time.

 

It was not advisory and Cameron was very clear in telling the British public EXACTLY what they were voting for....or against.

 

 

It is now up to parliament to deliver that.

 

 

whatever,

but it seems parliament has left everything to your unelected prime minister,

parliament doesn't do zilch - pm does a wee bit more

 

4 hours ago, malagateddy said:

,snip.

Just read that blair..that scummy war criminal sociopath is up to his tricks again..all luvy duvy with the eu head honchos bout 2nd referendum etc.

Whatever you think of Blair, at least try and report what he says with a modicum of accuracy!

 

All the reports I can find, say he called for a second referendum only if parliament could not agree on a way forward.

 

He is basically repeating what Heseltine said last week.

 

That is Parliament should vote on May's deal, and if that passes then that is what will happen. But, should parliament reject May's deal, which is far more likely, then the question should be put to the people in a referendum; May's deal or no deal.

 

Personally, I'd put in a third question, and hold the referendum on a sort of single transferable vote system.

 

Three questions:

1. May's deal?
2. No deal?
3. Cancel Brexit?

People vote for their first and second choice. If no first choice has 50% plus one of the total votes, then the option with the fewest first choices is eliminated and those votes transferred to the person's second choice. Then the option with the most votes, first and second choices, in total wins.

 

But no doubt there are some Brexiteers who would call that undemocratic!

 

 

17 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

whatever,

but it seems parliament has left everything to your unelected prime minister,

parliament doesn't do zilch - pm does a wee bit more

 

I suggest that you read up on how the UK's Parliamentary and Prime Ministerial systems actually work before commenting on them again; you'll look less foolish that way!

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I deal with FACTS at the time.

 

It was not advisory and Cameron was very clear in telling the British public EXACTLY what they were voting for....or against.

 

 

It is now up to parliament to deliver that.

 

 

 

 Exactly,and then-he spent millions of tax payers £’s, sending out a leaflet to every household, recommending that we should stay in the E.u.

However the British electorate Democratically  voted for Brit-exit.

 This unfortunately has not been acceptable to the political establishment and those elements in the the general populace, who have been so brain washed, that they cannot think for themselves.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

 

 

Would be interesting to know whether David Cameron actually (by the constitution) has the power to decide whether there will be another referendum or not. Some things cannot be decided by the Prime Minister alone.

Edited December 16, 20187 yr by welovesundaysatspace

7 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I deal with FACTS at the time.

 

It was not advisory and Cameron was very clear in telling the British public EXACTLY what they were voting for....or against.

 

 

It is now up to parliament to deliver that.

 

 

Let us be clear: it would be a betrayal of the will of the people to allow the people to express their will.

Let us be clear: it would be a betrayal of the will of the people to allow the people to express their will.

I'm sure the will of the people was expressed a coupla years ago..from memory I'm sure there was some kinda referendum??[emoji6]

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21 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I'll tell you where the UK will go from here.

 

in the new year, May will propose another referendum. The choices; do you accept the deal on the table or do you wish to stay in the EU.

Ha ha they are both stay in the EUSSR. What choice is that?

15 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

I'm sure the will of the people was expressed a coupla years ago..from memory I'm sure there was some kinda referendum??

Exactly: “a coupla years ago”. That’s not necessarily the will of the people today.  

8 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Exactly: “a coupla years ago”. That’s not necessarily the will of the people today.  

So you think we should have an EU referendum every year in case our views change ha ha or maybe a General Election every 6 months. General Elections are every 5 years. EU referendums should be every 30-40 years.

Edited December 17, 20187 yr by Henryford

Exactly: “a coupla years ago”. That’s not necessarily the will of the people today.  

Well now..I dare say that the UK could possibly have one every year..as long as people like yourself finance the whole shooting match.
But wait, are you a UK citizen?????????

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5 minutes ago, Henryford said:

So you think we should have an EU referendum every year in case our views change ha ha.

I think you shouldn’t had one in the first place, at least not one with a simple majority, no specific details and based on lies and false promises. But as the UK decided it wants to govern its country that way, it’s only sensible to double-check and reconfirm the will of the people after the details are available now and all the lies and false promises have been uncovered. It’s a bit odd to decide to do democracy by referendums but then do it like a banana republic. 

Edited December 17, 20187 yr by welovesundaysatspace