Several Bombs Rocks Southern Thailand

[Tony Clifton]

This low-level insurgency is not well funded and certainly isn't funded by the West. It seldom even makes into the Western media.

In some areas the insurgents charge a "tax" as they consider it to be a separate country. That is why some of the "innocent" Muslims are killed--it's because they either cooperate with the gov't or don't pay their taxes.

We are talking expendible motor bikes, real casio watches, disposable cell phones, C4 and similar explosives. There are many other hidden command and control cost that are too pointless to mention.

I don't know many young Thais outside of the Urban areas who have access to an unlimited supply of these kinds of things.

Do you know any Thai who would give up his motorbike for a politcal cause? There may be a few. But, if you agree to buy him a new one, he will cough it up in a heartbeat.

No one cares about blowing up free stolen merchandise. Any old motorbike, cell phone 30 baht watch will do. You don't need a Cartier watch, a Harley Davidson or the latest Ipod to have a blast.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[Jai Dee]

Thai interior minister calls for rethink of counter-insurgency strategy

Thailand’s Interior Minister Aree Wong-araya has urged police and military security services to reconsider their strategy following the latest wave of coordinated bombings, arsons and shootings in four southern border provinces which killed at least seven and wounded more than 50 people on Sunday.

The minister said security agencies were cautious to act upon intelligence information for fear that any pre-emptive actions could inflame the already tenuous relations between Chinese and Thai Buddhists and Muslim majority in the deep south as the bomb blasts were timed to coincide with the start of the Chinese New Year festivals.

According to a military spokesman, the insurgents were trying to scare ethnic Chinese who celebrate the holiday into fleeing the predominantly Muslim region. Sunday’s onslaught killed at least seven people and wounded 54 people, including four with serious injuries.

The Internal Security Operations Command also reported that suspected militants launched 54 nearly simultaneous attacks on Feb 18 including 29 bomb blasts, 11 arson attacks on government buildings and schools and at least five shooting incidents.

Sunday’s attacks were the first time the insurgents had simultaneously struck all four southern provinces - Yala, Narathiwat, Pattani and Songkhla - where they operate.

Mr Aree condemned the perpetrators as inhumanely cruel, saying that committing such deadly attacks was against religious teachings.

The interior minister told reporters that officials had done their best but they could not prevent the incidents without risks of the intervention turning into a communal confrontation given that suspected militants – many of them were teenagers - posed as customers trying to enter the entertainment venues targeted in the Sunday’s insurgent offensive.

But he stressed that the seriousness of the large-scale violence Sunday night called for a different approach in the government’s counter-insurgency approach.

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont met with top security officials on Monday and urged heightened security in the area ahead of upcoming public holidays including a Buddhist holiday in March and the Thai New Year known as Songkran, celebrated in mid-April.

Source: TNA - 20 February 2007

[ThaiGoon]

They are not "thieves trying to steal land from another country" as Thailand has annexed their country only a century ago (like so many areas of that Thai nation that have supposedly been part of Thailand for such a long time), without asking them, and has since then opressed their culture, language, and for long stretches of time their religion (as the Thai state did with many of their minorities). The Thai state has seddled outsiders in their area.

<snip> I don't know where you got your whole story of Thai government's oppression over their culture and language came from. When I went to school in Pattani for three years in the 90's (I went to "Satit Mor Or" school from grade 7 to grade 9), I didn't see any of the so called oppression. My Muslim friends integrated well into the rest of non-Muslim Thai community there. They still spoke their language. In fact, at their "Por Nor" schools (or Muslim schools), they were free to speak Malayu. And actually Malayu was the only languge used in those schools. Thai was rarely spoken, and the government was all right with it. There was no evidence of oppression. Their culture was respected and preserved. Pattani was peaceful then.

I don't know what's behind this recent insurgency, but I know for sure that any claims of being oppressed by the central government was just total BS. And to see a farang living no where near Pattani making such a claim almost made me puke really.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Jai Dee
Flame comment deleted

[John K]

Colypat you keep saying war, I disagree. They are thieves trying to steal land from another country. If you think about it, it’s like one animal challenging another for it’s territory. The strongest animal gets the prize. We have all seen it on nature programs, and even soi dogs defending their territory from other soi dogs. Again this tends to support the subspecies theory that negotiations don’t work.

<snip>

They are not "thieves trying to steal land from another country" as Thailand has annexed their country only a century ago (like so many areas of that Thai nation that have supposedly been part of Thailand for such a long time), without asking them, and has since then opressed their culture, language, and for long stretches of time their religion (as the Thai state did with many of their minorities). The Thai state has seddled outsiders in their area.

So yes, they are fighting the same kind of war the IRA has been fighting since yonks, and which has resulted in the independence of Ireland.

And your <snip> comparism between soi dogs and other animals neglects the fact that there are well established tactics in guerilla warfare against a superior opponent. Terror is one key element.

The southern insurgents have won as long as the war goes on, while the nation cannot win until they have defeated the insurgents. Insurgents have a clear advantage there, because such a conflict cannot be won by arms by either side. But continuing with these attrition tactics the insurgents have a chance to one day force the state to the negotiation table on their own terms. There is clear rational thinking behind their actions, and not animal reaction. It is guerilla warfare out of the text book.

The Thai state fights, besides the war on the battlefield, a war of propaganda, part of this is the charade of half arsed peace offers that are unacceptable to the insurgents, but mainly aimed at their own populations and people like you.

That moment of successful negotiation though is not there yet, and very possibly will take more escalation, and a lot more time.

So please explain to me how small children, school teachers, store owners, Monks and the list goes on and on including their own ... how are they superior opponents? Was the school teacher going to make them write on the board I will behave or throw a piece of chalk at them?

Also I am trying to broaden to include place like the Philippines, Iraq, and wherever anyone else has to deal with them. The theme is the same, it does not matter where they are on the globe.

Try to encompass that because the whole picture need to be looked at not just some small corner. If you don’t then your position could be very easily shot down.

[Jai Dee]

Several posts have had to be edited for flaming other members.

If any more of this behaviour continues, holidays will be awarded.

Final Warning.

[ColPyat]

They are not "thieves trying to steal land from another country" as Thailand has annexed their country only a century ago (like so many areas of that Thai nation that have supposedly been part of Thailand for such a long time), without asking them, and has since then opressed their culture, language, and for long stretches of time their religion (as the Thai state did with many of their minorities). The Thai state has seddled outsiders in their area.

<snip> I don't know where you got your whole story of Thai government's oppression over their culture and language came from. When I went to school in Pattani for three years in the 90's (I went to "Satit Mor Or" school from grade 7 to grade 9), I didn't see any of the so called oppression. My Muslim friends integrated well into the rest of non-Muslim Thai community there. They still spoke their language. In fact, at their "Por Nor" schools (or Muslim schools), they were free to speak Malayu. And actually Malayu was the only languge used in those schools. Thai was rarely spoken, and the government was all right with it. There was no evidence of oppression. Their culture was respected and preserved. Pattani was peaceful then.

I don't know what's behind this recent insurgency, but I know for sure that any claims of being oppressed by the central government was just total BS. And to see a farang living no where near Pattani making such a claim almost made me puke really.

The '90s was a unusually peaceful time in the three Changwats. Before and after wasn't.

The 90's was a time in which the Thai state gave up their previous policy of mistruting ethnic minorities and supressing their culture. Before there was very strong supression. The Thaksin policy of turning the area over to police control was a fatal mistake, and has very well aggrevated the situation. Surayud's apology without getting responsible military officers to trial for Tak Bai shows the lack of will of the government to relly come to peace.

But until you, and the Thai state, starts getting rid of this myopic nationalism, and understand that the insurgents have a case and are not just "terrorists", or "subhumans" there will be no peace, ever.

As to language - Prem has refused Anand's recommendation to make Yawi an official language down south. The issue is not that they can speak their language under themselves, or in their religious schools, but in offices etc.

Puke as much as you want - the war will go on. And no, i am no "terrorist sympathiser" - i am impartial. My sympathies are with the ones who genuinly would want to make peace, and there is presently nobody on any side.

[ColPyat]

So please explain to me how small children, school teachers, store owners, Monks and the list goes on and on including their own ... how are they superior opponents? Was the school teacher going to make them write on the board I will behave or throw a piece of chalk at them?

Also I am trying to broaden to include place like the Philippines, Iraq, and wherever anyone else has to deal with them. The theme is the same, it does not matter where they are on the globe.

Try to encompass that because the whole picture need to be looked at not just some small corner. If you don’t then your position could be very easily shot down.

There is a not very nice term in use - it is collateral damage. Every side uses this. Not just the insurgents have committed atrocities, also the Thai state has. Tak Bai was one, the mosque incident was another, and countless disappeared and tortured innocents..

School teachers are Thai government empoyees, Monks are part of the Bangkok centric hirarchal Sangha and from some of the insurgent's groups view legitimate targets in the war of attrition and escalation against the Thai state. It is cruel, but it is a tactic of war. Many of "their own" are part of the government's fight against insurgents, as voloteers for one or the other government agency or organisation, and therefore turn into targets as well. In every such guerilla war you will see this happening.

I think you should start understanding the details of this war, and guerilla warfare in general, before going into a "big picture" that does not exist in the general way you try to imply.

What are "them", please?

[ThaiGoon]

There is a not very nice term in use - it is collateral damage. Every side uses this. Not just the insurgents have committed atrocities, also the Thai state has. Tak Bai was one, the mosque incident was another, and countless disappeared and tortured innocents..

School teachers are Thai government empoyees, Monks are part of the Bangkok centric hirarchal Sangha and from some of the insurgent's groups view legitimate targets in the war of attrition and escalation against the Thai state. It is cruel, but it is a tactic of war. Many of "their own" are part of the government's fight against insurgents, as voloteers for one or the other government agency or organisation, and therefore turn into targets as well. In every such guerilla war you will see this happening.

I think you should start understanding the details of this war, and guerilla warfare in general, before going into a "big picture" that does not exist in the general way you try to imply.

What are "them", please?

You are sickening me. And I'm off. I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with someone like you. I hope none of your family members will end up being collateral damage some day.

[ColPyat]

You are sickening me. And I'm off. I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with someone like you. I hope none of your family members will end up being collateral damage some day.

Some of them nearly ended up as collateral damage in the Hat Yai bombings.

That doesn't change though my opinion that this war has to be analysed by rational thinking and not with emotional reactions, and personal flames against people who do not agree with your position.

[ThaiGoon]

And by the way, collateral damage is not the term that's used for intended victims. You can rationalize and analyze the motives of these terrorists all you want, but you should never maginalize the innocent people who lost their lives and should have never been targeted. That's inhumane.

And No, I don't believe this: "Some of them nearly ended up as collateral damage in the Hat Yai bombings." What a bunch of crap.

Edited February 20, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[ColPyat]

And by the way, collateral damage is not the term that's used for intended victims. You can rationalize and analyze the motives of these terrorists all you want, but you should never maginalize the innocent people who lost their lives and should have never been targeted. That's inhumane.

Sorry, but tactics of terror are a tactic of war used by any country, and any side. In guerilla warfare against a superior opponent this is elemental. That is why those sort of wars are always particularly atrocious. And the longer they take, they worse it becomes.

I do not marginalise any victim, be they innocent or not. But i do not see any use in dehumanising anyone, by statements such as "they are inhuman", "they are bad", "they are subhumans". This doesn't lead anywhere other than venting anger and further escalation.

What is much needed is impartial reason, no emotional qualifications, and acceptance that every side is equally to blame that the situation turned into the mess it is now.

Unfortunately history tought us that a lot of blood has to be spilled until the warring sides see the futility of such horrendous wars.

The only thing you or me can do, is trying to keep reason as a guiding factor, and not fall into the trap of emotional knee jerk reactions.

[ColPyat]

And No, I don't believe this: "Some of them nearly ended up as collateral damage in the Hat Yai bombings." What a bunch of crap.

Why?

Is it so difficult to believe that some of my wife's family members work in Hat Yai because their area in the North has no possibilities of empoyment, and a bomb went off just down the road from where they work?

<snip>

Edited February 20, 2007 by Jai Dee
Flammatory comment deleted

[ThaiGoon]

Sorry, but tactics of terror are a tactic of war used by any country, and any side. In guerilla warfare against a superior opponent this is elemental. That is why those sort of wars are always particularly atrocious. And the longer they take, they worse it becomes.

I do not marginalise any victim, be they innocent or not. But i do not see any use in dehumanising anyone, by statements such as "they are inhuman", "they are bad", "they are subhumans". This doesn't lead anywhere other than venting anger and further escalation.

What is much needed is impartial reason, no emotional qualifications, and acceptance that every side is equally to blame that the situation turned into the mess it is now.

Unfortunately history tought us that a lot of blood has to be spilled until the warring sides see the futility of such horrendous wars.

The only thing you or me can do, is trying to keep reason as a guiding factor, and not fall into the trap of emotional knee jerk reactions.

I'm a Buddhist. In Buddhism, even killing yourself, let alone other innocent lives, is a serious sin. No mattere whichever way you wanna twist it, the truth of the matter is that people who take out other innocent lives without any regards are absolute scums of the earth. There's absolutely no justification for that. And please stop BS'ing. It's sickening. Now I'm off for real.

[John K]

So please explain to me how small children, school teachers, store owners, Monks and the list goes on and on including their own ... how are they superior opponents? Was the school teacher going to make them write on the board I will behave or throw a piece of chalk at them?

Also I am trying to broaden to include place like the Philippines, Iraq, and wherever anyone else has to deal with them. The theme is the same, it does not matter where they are on the globe.

Try to encompass that because the whole picture need to be looked at not just some small corner. If you don’t then your position could be very easily shot down.

There is a not very nice term in use - it is collateral damage. Every side uses this. Not just the insurgents have committed atrocities, also the Thai state has. Tak Bai was one, the mosque incident was another, and countless disappeared and tortured innocents..

School teachers are Thai government empoyees, Monks are part of the Bangkok centric hirarchal Sangha and from some of the insurgent's groups view legitimate targets in the war of attrition and escalation against the Thai state. It is cruel, but it is a tactic of war. Many of "their own" are part of the government's fight against insurgents, as voloteers for one or the other government agency or organisation, and therefore turn into targets as well. In every such guerilla war you will see this happening.

I think you should start understanding the details of this war, and guerilla warfare in general, before going into a "big picture" that does not exist in the general way you try to imply.

What are "them", please?

If that is collateral damage then perhaps someone should just drop a nuke or two, what you are saying does not make much sense plus it still does nothing to explain why they kill themselves too. That sort of senseless killing is simply unjustifiable. I don’t see how innocent people can be defined as collateral when they are the target.

Collateral or incidental damage occurs when attacks targeted at military objectives cause civilian casualties and damage to civilian objects. It often occurs if military objectives such as military equipment or soldiers are situated in cities or villages or close to civilians.

More here http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/collateral-damage.html

Again not a war, wars are between countries or internal wars. This is a group of people acting like animals.

[ColPyat]

If that is collateral damage then perhaps someone should just drop a nuke or two, what you are saying does not make much sense plus it still does nothing to explain why they kill themselves too. That sort of senseless killing is simply unjustifiable. I don’t see how innocent people can be defined as collateral when they are the target.

Collateral or incidental damage occurs when attacks targeted at military objectives cause civilian casualties and damage to civilian objects. It often occurs if military objectives such as military equipment or soldiers are situated in cities or villages or close to civilians.

More here http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/collateral-damage.html

Again not a war, wars are between countries or internal wars. This is a group of people acting like animals.

And what else than an "internal war" is what is going on in the south?

Th question is not about "justifying" the killings, but about explaining what is going on down there. Like it or not - these are well established guerilla tactics generally employed in such wars.

[Jai Dee]

Thread closed pending moderation issues.

/Closed.

/Edit - thread tidied up and re-opened.

Members are reminded to please stay on-topic and not to incite arguments.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Jai Dee
Sanitation work done.

[sriracha john]

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<snip>

Reason for edit: Flame comment deleted

Poor Jai Dee... He's kept busier snipping than a urologist doing vasectomies on an assembly-line.

[cdnvic]

So please explain to me how small children, school teachers, store owners, Monks and the list goes on and on including their own ... how are they superior opponents? Was the school teacher going to make them write on the board I will behave or throw a piece of chalk at them?>>>snip<<<

There is a not very nice term in use - it is collateral damage.

No. When you attack a military target and a civilian gets caught in the crossfire, it's collateral damage.

When you attack a school, or walk up behind a monk and decapitate him it's homicide and terrorism.

It's also cowardly.

[Jai Dee]

Malaysians advised to avoid Southern Thailand

Malaysians have been advised Tuesday to avoid traveling to southern Thailand following the latest series of bombings, arsons, shootings last Sunday night.

Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar urged Malaysian tourists to stay away from the southern border provinces of Thailand which is popular with Malaysians due to the ongoing violence.

Synchronized bombings set off Sunday night killed at least seven people and wounded 54 others, including four people listed in critical condition.

Source: The Nation - 20 February 2007

[John K]

If that is collateral damage then perhaps someone should just drop a nuke or two, what you are saying does not make much sense plus it still does nothing to explain why they kill themselves too. That sort of senseless killing is simply unjustifiable. I don’t see how innocent people can be defined as collateral when they are the target.

Collateral or incidental damage occurs when attacks targeted at military objectives cause civilian casualties and damage to civilian objects. It often occurs if military objectives such as military equipment or soldiers are situated in cities or villages or close to civilians.

More here http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/collateral-damage.html

Again not a war, wars are between countries or internal wars. This is a group of people acting like animals.

And what else than an "internal war" is what is going on in the south?

Th question is not about "justifying" the killings, but about explaining what is going on down there. Like it or not - these are well established guerilla tactics generally employed in such wars.

OK Colpyat, I will concede as not every dictionary has the same definition of war. However with that said it then makes what they are doing war crimes by my last link.

I can’t think of many animals that would attack a non threat unless it was hunting for food. It would seem that indiscriminate killing is below many animals as well so subhuman may turn out to be a compliment.

By the way can you tell me what country they represent? I think you will find the answer to be many and none. Meaning they are from all over and non of their native countries endorsees what they are doing. They simply are undesirables.

The people fighting in the south now are not the same ones when this all started. I seriously doubt Thais could kill indiscriminately like that. Plus killing yourself defeats the purpose.

FYI Thaigoon was just saying he did not believe you and he was not flaming you.

[ColPyat]

If that is collateral damage then perhaps someone should just drop a nuke or two, what you are saying does not make much sense plus it still does nothing to explain why they kill themselves too. That sort of senseless killing is simply unjustifiable. I don’t see how innocent people can be defined as collateral when they are the target.

Collateral or incidental damage occurs when attacks targeted at military objectives cause civilian casualties and damage to civilian objects. It often occurs if military objectives such as military equipment or soldiers are situated in cities or villages or close to civilians.

More here http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/collateral-damage.html

Again not a war, wars are between countries or internal wars. This is a group of people acting like animals.

And what else than an "internal war" is what is going on in the south?

Th question is not about "justifying" the killings, but about explaining what is going on down there. Like it or not - these are well established guerilla tactics generally employed in such wars.

OK Colpyat, I will concede as not every dictionary has the same definition of war. However with that said it then makes what they are doing war crimes by my last link.

I can’t think of many animals that would attack a non threat unless it was hunting for food. It would seem that indiscriminate killing is below many animals as well so subhuman may turn out to be a compliment.

Shimpanzees, our closest relative, do exactly that. If you google around a bit you can see that seperate bands have been fighting brutal wars of attrition and genozide.

By the way can you tell me what country they represent? I think you will find the answer to be many and none. Meaning they are from all over and non of their native countries endorsees what they are doing. They simply are undesirables.

They believe themselves here in Thailand representing the former Sultanate of Pattani which was annexed by Thailand.

The people fighting in the south now are not the same ones when this all started. I seriously doubt Thais could kill indiscriminately like that. Plus killing yourself defeats the purpose.

Then i would ask you to read up on Thai history, especially on the 19th century involvement in Cambodia, and bery recently during the events in the 70's, especially the Thammasat massacre on 6th October 1976. And the Tak Bai incident was a very indiscriminate killing of inncents of which the responsible army officers were never charged with properly.

Yes, Thais can kill indiscriminately, and purposely as well.

FYI Thaigoon was just saying he did not believe you and he was not flaming you.

Stating that he does not believe me is just a polite way of calling me a liar.

Edited February 20, 2007 by ColPyat

[blaze]

If that is collateral damage then perhaps someone should just drop a nuke or two, what you are saying does not make much sense plus it still does nothing to explain why they kill themselves too. That sort of senseless killing is simply unjustifiable. I don’t see how innocent people can be defined as collateral when they are the target.

Collateral or incidental damage occurs when attacks targeted at military objectives cause civilian casualties and damage to civilian objects. It often occurs if military objectives such as military equipment or soldiers are situated in cities or villages or close to civilians.

More here http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/collateral-damage.html

Again not a war, wars are between countries or internal wars. This is a group of people acting like animals.

And what else than an "internal war" is what is going on in the south?

Th question is not about "justifying" the killings, but about explaining what is going on down there. Like it or not - these are well established guerilla tactics generally employed in such wars.

OK Colpyat, I will concede as not every dictionary has the same definition of war. However with that said it then makes what they are doing war crimes by my last link.

I can’t think of many animals that would attack a non threat unless it was hunting for food. It would seem that indiscriminate killing is below many animals as well so subhuman may turn out to be a compliment.

Shimpanzees, our closest relative, do exactly that. If you google around a bit you can see that seperate bands have been fighting brutal wars of attrition and genozide.

By the way can you tell me what country they represent? I think you will find the answer to be many and none. Meaning they are from all over and non of their native countries endorsees what they are doing. They simply are undesirables.

They believe themselves here in Thailand representing the former Sultanate of Pattani which was annexed by Thailand.

The people fighting in the south now are not the same ones when this all started. I seriously doubt Thais could kill indiscriminately like that. Plus killing yourself defeats the purpose.

Then i would ask you to read up on Thai history, especially on the 19th century involvement in Cambodia, and bery recently during the events in the 70's, especially the Thammasat massacre on 6th October 1976. And the Tak Bai incident was a very indiscriminate killing of inncents of which the responsible army officers were never charged with properly.

Yes, Thais can kill indiscriminately, and purposely as well.

FYI Thaigoon was just saying he did not believe you and he was not flaming you.

Stating that he does not believe me is just a polite way of calling me a liar.

The fact John that you do not share the the logic of terrorism does not mean that the terrorist is not human. Though, one of the ways that the terroist is conditioned to maim children and women is to convince himself and his peers that his intended victims are.... subhuman.

Reminds me a bit of GW's "axis of evil"- certainly not the best basis on which to

'know your enemy'- as the Americans have discovered- too late. And knowing your enemy is essential to defeating him.

I don't know what the terrorists in the south want- I suspect it is a separatist movement- not a movement seeking more Yawi on the street signs- or even an autonomous province. But I don't know. Is it inspired by Islamic struggles in other countries? How prevalant is the JI connection? Is it even Islamist? Or does it have more in common with the more secular brand of seperatism of the pre-war Kosovo Liberation Army and the IRA or the Chechens? Are these people, like the child soldiers in Africa simply pawns of local war lords, idealogues, or mafias? How strongly do people in the south feel about the ethnic Thai domination? How repressive is that domination? Is there a central command structure? How do THEY justify their brutality? How much sympathy is there for them in the local communities? It is amazing that after three years of this so little information has been gleaned or if it has been gleaned, publicized. (Or maybe I just haven't been paying attention).

While it may provide some quick comfort to just attribute the problems down south to a subspecies endemic to the region, or to Evil afoot, it's probably not the best way of analyzing a serious problem which may quickly become a very serious one.

Edited February 20, 2007 by blaze

[ColPyat]

The fact John that you do not share the the logic of terrorism does not mean that the terrorist is not human. Though, one of the ways that the terroist is conditioned to maim children and women is to convince himself and his peers that his intended victims are.... subhuman.

Reminds me a bit of GW's "axis of evil"- certainly not the best basis on which to

'know your enemy'- as the Americans have discovered- too late. And knowing your enemy is essential to defeating him.

I don't know what the terrorists in the south want- I suspect it is a separatist movement- not a movement seeking more Yawi on the street signs- or even an autonomous province. But I don't know. Is it inspired by Islamic struggles in other countries? How prevalant is the JI connection? Is it even Islamist? Or does it have more in common with the more secular brand of seperatism of the pre-war Kosovo Liberation Army and the IRA or the Chechens? Are these people, like the child soldiers in Africa simply pawns of local war lords, idealogues, or mafias? How strongly do people in the south feel about the ethnic Thai domination? How repressive is that domination? Is there a central command structure? How do THEY justify their brutality? How much sympathy is there for them in the local communities? It is amazing that after three years of this so little information has been gleaned or if it has been gleaned, publicized. (Or maybe I just haven't been paying attention).

There are many things which are not known yet.

A few things in public knowledge are that there are many groups, that most likely the older groups such as PULO do not share the ideas of escalation by killing civilians, but that they have very little power over the new and far more violent groups.

It is clear that many killings are not just seperatist killings, but as is common in such wars, are by overlapping vested interests in the underground economy.

A clear edge the insurgents have is that very little is known of their command structure, ideology or demands, or even aims. It hightens fear, a very powerful strategy in such a war.

One thing can be clearly said, these groups are very succesful in whatever their final strategy is, and the Thai State is always one step behind. That alone should show that they follow a very intelligent course of action.

[John K]

A little blending here, using colpyat term war to answer blaze, every war has always been about one thing, and that one thing is real estate. So simply there animals want a place to nest grow and spread out.

Shimpanzees, our closest relative, do exactly that. If you google around a bit you can see that seperate bands have been fighting brutal wars of attrition and genozide.

I kinda get the feeling of fencing you while moving down a ladder here with this one. I sincerely hope you are just taking this as debate for the sake of debate to practice for some future thing in your life. Trying to defend the actions of these animals is a seriously big push, and eventually when Uncle Sam’s big terrorism seeking software locks onto you... well..... you may find your name on a watch list or two.

[Jai Dee]

SBPAC Act to be enacted

Permanent Secretary of Interior indicates that the Interior Ministry has planned to push for the enactment of the Southern Border Provinces Administrative Command (SBPAC) Act.

Permanent Secretary of Interior, Pongpayom Wasaputti (พงศ์โพยม วาศภูติ) revealed that the ministry has prepared to submit the Act draft to the Cabinet meeting today (February, 20). After the draft has been approved, he said it is impossible for the government to enforce the Act as an Emergency Decree.

Tomorrow, the Act draft will be submitted to the National Legislative Assembly (NLA). The NLA meeting might amend some articles of the Act and it takes about 30 days later before it has become effective.

Asked whether the SBPAC Act can resolve the Southern unrest, the permanent secretary said that it is too early to answer the question. This is the first time that SBPAC has its own law. It used to operate under the Office of the Prime Minister since Gen.Prem Tinsulanond was the prime minister.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 Febuary 2007

[Jai Dee]

CNS Secretary: bombings on Sunday is to counter government's peace drive

Council for National Security (CNS) Secretary Prakij Prajonpudjaneuk (ประกิจ ประจนปัจจนึก) believes that the Sunday bombing in the four southern border provinces is to challenge the government’s peace drive.

The CNS Secretary has also declined to conclude that the bombings had any relations with Mr. Masae Useng (มะแซ อุเซ็ง), the leader of southern insurgency, or not. He said that it is possible the insurgents intended to challenge the government after Malaysia has agreed to work with Thailand in combating insurgency.

Mr. Prakij said that the emergency decree is still being enforced in the Restive South. Security measures will be implemented.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 Febuary 2007

[ColPyat]

A little blending here, using colpyat term war to answer blaze, every war has always been about one thing, and that one thing is real estate. So simply there animals want a place to nest grow and spread out.

Shimpanzees, our closest relative, do exactly that. If you google around a bit you can see that seperate bands have been fighting brutal wars of attrition and genozide.

I kinda get the feeling of fencing you while moving down a ladder here with this one. I sincerely hope you are just taking this as debate for the sake of debate to practice for some future thing in your life. Trying to defend the actions of these animals is a seriously big push, and eventually when Uncle Sam’s big terrorism seeking software locks onto you... well..... you may find your name on a watch list or two.

Why do you have to personalise the discussion?

War is strategy and tactics. Simple as that. You refuse to accept that killing civilians and employing terror are established tactics of warfare. "War crimes" (a term for the ones who cannot accept that war in itself is a crime) are and have been committed by both sides, and will continue so.

I don't see how i defend anybody other than trying to explain that this is hardly indiscriminate killing for the sake of killing, but is following a completely logic, though obviously brutal, strategy.

By dehumanising these people you are following the same mindset that enables people of both sides in the conflict to commit those atrocities.

[blaze]

A little blending here, using colpyat term war to answer blaze, every war has always been about one thing, and that one thing is real estate. So simply there animals want a place to nest grow and spread out.

Shimpanzees, our closest relative, do exactly that. If you google around a bit you can see that seperate bands have been fighting brutal wars of attrition and genozide.

I kinda get the feeling of fencing you while moving down a ladder here with this one. I sincerely hope you are just taking this as debate for the sake of debate to practice for some future thing in your life. Trying to defend the actions of these animals is a seriously big push, and eventually when Uncle Sam’s big terrorism seeking software locks onto you... well..... you may find your name on a watch list or two.

Actually John, I think that Uncle Sam's anti-terrorism people would be as grateful for an intelligent analysis of the situation (such as Colpyat has attempted to provide,) as I am. Do you really believe that anyone who studies terrorism and seeks to understand why people will engage in this brutality are supporters of the methods? This line of arguement reminds me a bit of-- oh what was his name- when the PAD was rallying- that guy that chose, rather than to try to understand what their grievences were- to simply write them all off as losers- oh now it comes to me--- Ex PM Taksin.

[cdnvic]

By dehumanising these people you are following the same mindset that enables people of both sides in the conflict to commit those atrocities.

I think you are putting too much stock in what gets said on a forum. Besides, what does pleading for people to be polite to these murderers, and terrorists accomplish?

[blaze]

By dehumanising these people you are following the same mindset that enables people of both sides in the conflict to commit those atrocities.

"Besides, what does pleading for people to be polite to these murderers, and terrorists accomplish?

Explain that to Condi Rice who is doing just that at this very moment.

And nobody would accuse her or her boss of being a bleeding heart let alone a closet sympathizer.