Several Bombs Rocks Southern Thailand

[ColPyat]

Hm... well that's called selective reading I think.

A key point is that the history shows the area has been under effective Thai control for 400 + years. Whilst having different culture and religion, the level of control was sufficient for the British to recognise the position on the ground and deal with the rulers of the area, in this case the Thai government.

The other point is to note that there no historical evidence to support a long ongoing conflict, in point of fact the reverse is true.

Regards

And it shows as well that in the 400 years of effective Thai control the local population had regular uprisings against Thai rule. The last significant one, you forgot to mention, was from the late sixties until it frickled out in the 80s.

[ColPyat]

I am sorry ColPyat i Don,t think this is similar to the colonial war as for the most part this was Fought by two opposing Armies who fought toe to toe ..What we are seeing in Thailand is the Birth of something similar to the Northern Ireland Troubles ..There will be a few Gangster types bullying the population into support and useing Religion as a excuse ..There will be high up officials Military and Goverment who will see this as Spring board for there careers and a over Zealous Goverment that will not want to loose Face ..All that will come of this ..is the Bullies will get Political Recognition ..The Goverment at the time will claim Recognition for bringing peace to the area ..But when you look back you will see everybody else paid the high price ..From the Soldier/Police officer who never wanted to get caught up in it all to the terrorist that was recruited/Bullied into it from the Playground and to the Mothers who lost there Children from both sides ...What the Area needs is 100% employment a heavy military presence that can be promised to diminish as the violence receeds and most of all a population that will get sick and tired of it sooner rather than later so that politicions and High Profile names can,t get any mileage from it any longer ...This is my view only and from some of my own personal experiances .... as you can see from my Grammer there,s no Academic Qualifications here but i did serve in the H.M Forces and have seen this kind of BS up close and personal ..This is not to be confused with the Guerilla tactics of yesteryear .. This is secretarian violence being indiscrimitaly meeted out onto schools temples and mosques ..Trust me this is not a War this is Gangster Rule Fueled by Religion ..This is a Hornets nest being shaken up and those doing the shaking are laughing there <deleted> off while everyone else in side is suffering ..Just my 10 Bahts worth

Well, i have seen some of those conflicts up close as well. I have not seen though any of them solved by military means alone. And many are still going on, such as Kashmir, or the many little and utterly brutal ones in Burma.

These conflicts, as you said rightly, will be solved when everybody is sick and tired of the fighting and killing, and a solution can be worked out on the negotiation table. The fighting and killing though will go on until conditions are right.

Modern armies such as the British are mostly sticking to established rules of conduct (even though it is inevitable that human rights violations happen there as well). I guess it's the nature of the biest. But i would not confuse the Thai army with a modern, well led army. Have you seen the video of Tak Bai?

I don't think any side here in the conflict in the south is much "better" than the other.

I would also not call this "sectarian violence indiscriminately dished out", but a very effective and brutal strategy which so far the insurgents are winning. I wonder when and if the Thai state can come up with an effective counter stategy, especially one that does not involve going down the slippery slope of equal brutality and therfore increased escalation.

A quick edit:

I have no academic qualifications either. None. School of life.

Edited February 20, 2007 by ColPyat

[A_Traveller]

Well, i have seen some of those conflicts up close as well.

Where?

Regards

[ColPyat]

Well, i have seen some of those conflicts up close as well.

Where?

Regards

Kashmir. Burma. A tad bit of the last legs of Cambodia.

[asd]

Three arrested over Chinese New year attacks

The Commander of the Fourth Army Area, Lt General Viroj Buacharoon Tuesday said three suspects behind the string of attacks during the Chinese New Year have been arrested. Viroj said the suspects were between 20 and 30 years of age and had admitted to their crime.

The suspects were paraded in front of the media while Viroj spoke to the press.

He said the attackers had undergone guerrilla combat training - known as RKK (Rundi Kumpulan Kecil) - prior to taking up arms against the state.

He added that the attackers were deployed during the weekend to locations outside their residential area - a similar pattern to other co-ordinated attacks.

Separately, a Border Patrol Police outpost came under attack by suspected militants in Narathiwat's Sri Sakorn district. The gunfight lasted for about ten minutes. No injuries were reported.

In Narathiwat's Yi-ngor district, a bomb was detonated in front of a public school as a security detail was passing by. No injuries were reported.

In Chanae district of the same province, a bomb exploded at a bus stop in a remote village.

In Yala, authorities defused a bomb planted in front of a 7-11 convenient store, while in Banang Sta district, a soldier was injured in a brief gunfight after his unit was ambushed by suspected militants hiding in the forest.

The Chamber of Commerce in Yala, meanwhile, called on the government to put up more closed-circuit cameras in public areas and to provide local residents in rural and the municipality areas with weapons to defend themselves.

In spite of tightened security during the weekend when thousands of local residents were celebrating the Chinese New Year, militants were able to carry out at least 38 bombing attacks, 26 cases of arson and mount seven ambushes from Sunday evening to Monday afternoon.

The Nation

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Latest News

The suspects were accepted that they attacked eleven government installations in three provinces simultaneously. The security forces responded with deadly firepower killing 108 assailants in April 2004.

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Wednesday, April 28, 2004

Violence in the Southern Border Provinces

BANGKOK (Reuters) - More than 70 people were killed on Wednesday in dawn clashes between black-clad young men and security forces in Thailand's restive Muslim south when armed gangs raided police posts in a sharp escalation of four months of violence.

"Seventy four of the culprits were killed and four were wounded," Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra told reporters.

Two soldiers and two policemen also died after gangs of young men dressed in black and wielding guns, swords and machetes launched the early morning raids on security posts across the troubled region, home to a low-key separatist rebellion in the 1970s and 1980s.

An armed Thai soldier stands guard a road next to a falling motorcycle near Krue Se mosque in Pattani province, southern Thailand Wednesday, April 28, 2004. Police gunned down scores of machete-wielding militants who stormed more than a dozen security outposts Wednesday, the bloodiest day of fighting yet in Thailand's troubled Muslim-dominated south. The death toll stood at least 112. Only five security force personnel were among the dead. The rest were insurgents, mostly teenagers.

Thailand's three southernmost provinces have been hit by a wave of shootings, bombings and arson attacks that had claimed at least 60 lives since a January 4 raid on an army barracks that left four soldiers dead.

"They attacked five of our police booths in Yala province this morning and we killed 22 of them," provincial police chief Colonel Prinya Kwanyuen told Reuters.

The largely Muslim province of Yala is 780 miles south of the capital, Bangkok.

An Interior Ministry official said the attackers were killed in raids across the three southern provinces, including in Pattani province, where a battle was still raging between troops and gunmen holed up in a mosque.

Islamist slogans were shouted during the attacks.

The violence shattered Thailand's reputation as a land of peace and tolerance.

The militants, mostly armed with machetes and only a few carrying assault rifles, battled policemen and soldiers in Pattani, Yala and Songkhla in one of the bloodiest days in modern Thai history. Authorities said 107 rebels were killed and 17 were arrested. Five security officials were killed.

Eyewitnesses said some attackers were screaming religious slogans, proclaiming "We are ready to die for God!" as they stormed outposts.

The insurgents, many of them apparently suicidal, launched simultaneous pre-dawn raids on 10 police outposts and a police station in a military-style operation.

"Many had no more than a machete in their hands. It was like a death wish. This is scary," said one intelligence officer, adding that there is real concern that further attacks could be suicide missions.

Witnesses said more than 30 insurgents took up positions at the break of dawn in the historic Krue Se Mosque on the outskirts of Pattani where they used the mosque's loud speaker to urge all Muslims in the area to take up arms against security forces and "fight to the death".

Saddened

Krue Sae Mosque

32 insurgents retreated to the Krue Sae Mosque, the holiest mosque in Pattani. A seven hour stand-off ended when Pallop Pinmanee, the most senior Army commander on the scene, ordered an all out assault on the mosque. All the insurgents were killed. He later noted that "I had no choice ". I was afraid that as time passed the crowd would be sympathetic to the insurgents, to the point of trying to rescue them."

The fighting continued for much of the day until Thai security forces with tear gas, assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades launched a counterattack against a four-century-old mosque where many retreating militants had holed up. More than 30 fighters were killed in that one confrontation, according to security officials.

It was later revealed that Pallop's order to storm the mosque contravened a direct order by Defense Minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh to seek a peaceful resolution to the stand-off no matter how long it took. Pallop was immediately ordered out of the area, and later tendered his resignation as commander of the Southern Peace Enhancement Center. The forward command of the Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC), which Pallop headed, was also dissolved. A government investigative commission later found that the security forces had over-reacted.

The Asian Centre for Human Rights questioned the independence and impartiality of the investigative commission. In 3 May 2004 during a Senate hearing, Senator Kraisak Choonhavan, noted that most of those killed at Krue Se Mosque were shot in the head and there were traces that rope had been tied around their wrists.

The incident resulted in a personal conflict between Pallop and Defense Minister Chavalit, who was also director of the ISOC. Pallop later demanded that the Defense Minister stop any involvement in the management of the southern insurgency.

Five members of the security forces were killed in the battles.

Bodies of more than 100 Muslim militants, most of them teenagers, littered the roads and a revered mosque, following clashes across the deep South between insurgents and security forces.

The steady erosion of respect for human rights that has characterized Thaksin Shinawatra’s administration reached a new low in 2005 with killings in the south by security forces and insurgents and the introduction of draconian new security legislation. Continuing failure to investigate widespread killings by security forces in the 2003 anti-drug campaign has deepened the culture of impunity, while critical media have come under direct assault.

The empire adopted Islam in the mid-13th century and later took the name Pattani, with its capital thought to be at modern-day Krue Se, where 32 rebels were gunned down by Thai security forces in an historic mosque Wednesday. The people of Pattani then, as now, spoke a Malay dialect and maintained a culture distinct from the ethnic-Thai north that officially made Buddhism its state religion at about the same time Islam was taking hold in the south."

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Human Rights Watch

The steady erosion of respect for human rights that has characterized Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s administration reached a new low in 2005 with killings in the south by security forces and insurgents and the introduction of draconian new security legislation. Continuing failure to investigate widespread killings by security forces in the 2003 anti-drug campaign has deepened the culture of impunity, while critical media have come under direct assault.

In this increasingly hostile environment, members of Thailand’s once-thriving human rights and media community face serious questions about their ability to continue doing their work.

The Executive Decree on Government Administration in Emergency Situations

The Executive Decree on Government Administration in Emergency Situations, summarily put in place by Prime Minister Thaksin in July 2005 and later ratified by parliament, has undermined or revoked many key safeguards against human rights abuses. The decree gives authorities sweeping powers to declare a state of emergency, arrest and detain suspects, restrict movement and communication, censor the media, and deny access to the Administrative Court and to redress for victims of abuses by government officials and the security forces.

While the emergency law was put in place to address violence in the south, there is no geographical limit on where it can be invoked. The decree allows authorities to detain suspects for an initial period of thirty days in informal places of detention without guarantee of immediate access to lawyers This raises the prospect that detainees will be held in secret, undisclosed, or inaccessible locations where monitoring is impossible and there is no judicial oversight or access to counsel or family.

This is an unprecedented and dangerous provision that carries a heightened risk of “disappearances” and is almost certain to lead to abuses. There is no limit to the number of times such detention can be extended, creating the risk of arbitrary, disproportionate, and indefinite limitations on fundamental human rights and freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution of Thailand and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).

Violence in the Southern Border Provinces

Almost 1,000 people have been killed since a new spate of violence began in the southern border provinces of Pattani, Yala, and Narathiwat in January 2004—some at the hands of the security forces and others by insurgent groups. Violence has included arson attacks on government buildings, bombs, beheadings, and assassinations. On October 16, 2005, a Buddhist monk was murdered when Phrom Prasit Temple in Pattani province was burned, marking the first direct militant attack on a Buddhist temple since the spate of violence began in the three southern border provinces last year.

Unrealistic deadlines set by Prime Minister Thaksin to solve cases of insurgent attacks quickly and restore peace in the region have created pressure on the security forces to resort to extrajudicial means and human rights violations. For example, in massive operations to identify and capture those responsible for the January 2004 raid on an army depot in Narathiwat province, a number of people allegedly were arbitrarily arrested and disappeared by the security forces.

However, the Thai government has to date refused to include statistics on “disappearances” in official reports released to the public. Promises of investigation and justice appear to be only rhetorical, aiming to defuse criticisms and political pressure. To date, there have still been no criminal persecutions in the Krue Sae Mosque (April 28, 2004) and Tak Bai (October 25, 2004) incidents, in which nearly two hundred Muslims were killed by the security forces.

Growing fear and suspicion of the security forces have caused hundreds of Muslims to seek asylum in Malaysia. At this writing, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) was in the process of determining the status of 131 Thai Muslims who fled to Malaysia in October 2005.

The Anti–Drug Campaign

Prime Minister Thaksin announced a new phase of the war on drugs from October to December 2005. Almost immediately, new reports of suspected drugs dealers shot dead by the police began to appear in many parts of the country.

There remains no significant progress in the investigation of drug-related murders during the first phase of the war on drugs, from February to April 2003. Of 2,598 cases, the police had investigated only 752 at this writing. Arrest warrants were issued in 117 cases, with interrogation of suspects continuing in ninety others. The remaining cases were dropped due to a lack of witnesses and evidence. The unwillingness of the police to investigate these deaths, combined with the unusually high numbers of drug-related murders, has created widespread suspicion that many deaths were due to extra-judicial killings and police brutality.

Human Rights Defenders

Prime Minister Thaksin and government officials continue to publicly denigrate non-governmental organizations (NGOs). At the National Human Rights Commission workshop on August 6, 2005, Prime Minister Thaksin specifically told NGOs not to “sink the boat” by reporting human rights abuses in Thailand to the international community.

There have been reliable reports of surveillance and harassment of some human rights defenders, particularly those working on issues related to violence in the southern border provinces. In March 2004, Somchai Neelapaijit, a prominent Muslim human rights lawyer, was abducted in Bangkok and is now presumed dead. Somchai had been repeatedly threatened after alleging police torture of insurgent suspects in the southern border provinces. Five police officers were arrested in 2004 in relation to his case, but have not been prosecuted for kidnapping or murder.

Another eighteen human rights defenders have been murdered since Prime Minister Thaksin came to power in 2001. Most were killed after raising public concern about economic development activities by individuals or companies. The latest case took place in June 2005 when a renowned conservationist Buddhist monk, Pra Supoj Suwajo, of Suan Bha Metthadharm Temple in Chieng Mai province, was hacked to death after he staged a campaign against the alleged encroachment of forest and public land by a national politician . Prosecutors have largely failed to pursue these cases. As a result, Thailand’s once-thriving human rights community now operates in an increasingly tense climate of fear and impunity.

To curry favor with the regime in Rangoon, the Thai government has also cracked down on the work of exiled Burmese human rights defenders monitoring the human rights of refugees and migrant workers.

Restrictions on Media Freedom

The Thai government continues to restrict media freedom by withholding or threatening to withhold advertising contracts, operating licenses, or work permits from media outlets, and by filing defamation cases seeking large monetary damage awards against prominent advocates and independent journalists in order to limit critical coverage.

In September 2005, Prime Minister Thaksin personally filed criminal and civil defamation suits against veteran journalist Sondhi Limthongkul, Sarocha Pornudomsak, and Thai Day Dot Com, Co. The 500 million baht sought in the civil suit represent the largest damages ever pursued by any politician or government official.

Members of Thailand’s media, concerned about possible government reprisals, have begun to censor their own work by devoting less attention to human rights abuses and other issues of national importance. As a result, the government has even greater freedom to pursue a range of controversial policy initiatives, including anti-drug campaigns and counter-insurgency operations. Some of the most brutal state-sponsored human rights abuses in the country’s modern history have had little or no public discussion.

Refugee Protection

Prime Minister Thaksin continues to backtrack on Thailand’s longstanding humanitarian stance toward Burmese refugees in an effort to improve relations with Burma’s military junta.

On March 31, 2005, the Thai government enforced a plan requiring all Burmese refugees to move to camps along the Burmese border. According to the Thai authorities, those who fail to register for relocation to the camps—including those officially recognized by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR)––will be arrested and deported back to Burma.

Those who do not register will no longer be allowed to receive protection or assistance from UNHCR in Thailand and will be barred from resettlement abroad. However, many of the Burmese urban refugees are hesitant to relocate to the border camps, fearing the move may trap them in a detention-like environment without political freedom and access to telephones or other means of communication with the outside world.

Others are fearful for their security because of mistreatment by camp officials, cross-border violence, or political and ethnic conflicts within the camps.

Key International Actors

The United States is the key bilateral actor in Thailand. While the U.S. raises human rights concerns on a regular basis with Thailand, activists were disappointed by the White House visit accorded to Prime Minister Thaksin in September 2005 and the failure of President Bush publicly to address the erosion of human rights protections under Thaksin. Bush instead emphasized the two leaders’ close friendship.

In June 2005, the United Nations Working Group on Enforced or Involuntary Disappearances expressed “great concern” over missing Muslim human rights lawyer Somchai Neelaphaijit. In July 2005, the United Nations Human Rights Committee expressed concerns over the climate of impunity created by the Executive Decree on Government Administration in Emergency Situations and persistent allegations of extrajudicial killings and other serious human rights violations.

In an apparent response to those concerns, Prime Minister Thaksin gave a speech at the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and United Nations Summit in September 2005 asserting that lack of coordination and inadequate guidelines can draw United Nations agencies into domestic political issues. “This can be a cause of resentment, rejection, and non-cooperation … and make the United Nations irrelevant,” he said.

[Jai Dee]

Authorities track down suspected Feb 18 insurgents

The 4th Army Area Commander reports that 3 suspects have been apprehended in connection with the southern mass bombings which occurred on February 18.

4th Army Area Commander Lt.-Gen. Wirote Bua-jaroon (วิโรจน์ บัวจรูญ) conducted a joint press conference with Yala governor Theera Mintrasak (ธีระ มินทราศักดิ์ ) and Narathiwat governor Karan Supakitwirekarn (การันต์ ศุภกิจวิเลขการ) at the Region 4 Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC) headquarters in Pattani province.

Lt.-Gen. Wirote said that authorities have tracked down and apprehended suspects linked to the mass insurgent attacks which occurred in the 4 southern border provinces on the night of February 18. One suspect was found in Thepa (เทพา) district of Songkhla province, and 2 others in Bajoh (บาเจาะ) district of Narathiwat province.

Lt Gen Wirote also asked for the cooperation of parents in preventing their children from being lured into joining insurgent groups.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 February 2007

[Plus]

Don't take history lessons as a gospel.It's not what actually happened that's important - it's what the insurgents believe in what makes the conflict go on. The "real" history is important only if you could prove to THEM that Pattani has peacefully existed as part of the Siam for 400 years.

You could blame them for not knowing their own history but it won't help in the least.

What we have on the ground is a few thousand of hot headed youths with guns who see Thais as an occupying force that should be expunged from "their" land - all of it - Thai banks, Thai karaokes, Thai government, Thai soldiers, Thai civilians. Thai government resettled thousands of ethnic Thais in Southern provinces to dillute the native population, those Thais are about as welcome there as ethnic Russians in newly independent Baltic states (no passports, no voting rights - nothing, I believe).

And Balts themselves would have none of that "no redrawing old borders" stuff - they believed in their independence, they fought for it (peacefully), and they got it. Chechens were not so lucky.

Yougoslavia disintegrated right before our eyes with so much blood spilled you wouldn't believe it's possible at the end of the 20th century, in Europe. Czechoslovakia, on the other hand, had a peaceful break up.

So, there are precedents for countries striving for their independence. I don't advocate it at all, but there's a case to be made.

[Tony Clifton]

Don't take history lessons as a gospel.It's not what actually happened that's important - it's what the insurgents believe in what makes the conflict go on. The "real" history is important only if you could prove to THEM that Pattani has peacefully existed as part of the Siam for 400 years.

You could blame them for not knowing their own history but it won't help in the least.

What would help is tracking down who exactly is teaching/brainwashnig these young people into acts of terrible and cowardly murder. Unless I'm wrong and they're all over 400 years old.

[blaze]

Don't take history lessons as a gospel.It's not what actually happened that's important - it's what the insurgents believe in what makes the conflict go on. The "real" history is important only if you could prove to THEM that Pattani has peacefully existed as part of the Siam for 400 years.

You could blame them for not knowing their own history but it won't help in the least.

What we have on the ground is a few thousand of hot headed youths with guns who see Thais as an occupying force that should be expunged from "their" land - all of it - Thai banks, Thai karaokes, Thai government, Thai soldiers, Thai civilians. Thai government resettled thousands of ethnic Thais in Southern provinces to dillute the native population, those Thais are about as welcome there as ethnic Russians in newly independent Baltic states (no passports, no voting rights - nothing, I believe).

And Balts themselves would have none of that "no redrawing old borders" stuff - they believed in their independence, they fought for it (peacefully), and they got it. Chechens were not so lucky.

Yougoslavia disintegrated right before our eyes with so much blood spilled you wouldn't believe it's possible at the end of the 20th century, in Europe. Czechoslovakia, on the other hand, had a peaceful break up.

So, there are precedents for countries striving for their independence. I don't advocate it at all, but there's a case to be made.

Good post Plus. Tribalism continues to threaten the stability of many nations- including Canada (not to mention, of course, Spain, Lebanon, Turkey, Morocco, Ireland... the list goes on and on). Throw a dash of religion into the mix and the pot begins to really bubble. It would be nice if all the combatants adhered to the methods of, say, the Quebec separatists (since the FLQ) or those that effectively broke up Czeckoslovakia- but --- for a range of reasons, such hope is pretty idealistic-

[Jai Dee]

Narathiwat motorcycle taxi operators asked to help tip off signs of insurgency

Narathiwat (นราธิวาส) Internal Security Operations Command and provincial policemen have asked for cooperation from motorcycle taxi operators in the province to help provide information leading to insurgency.

Following the rising violence in Narathiwat Province, all local agencies and people have been encouraged to help curb more violence. Since more than 300 motorcycle taxi operators wander outdoors, they are more susceptible to latest news concerning possible violence.

At the same time, provincial policemen have expressed gratiutude to all residents in trying to help bring back peace to the province.

Mr. Sa_aree Mating, a motorcycle taxi operator, said that he is willing to give cooperation to authorities.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 February 2007

[Jai Dee]

Insurgents set fire to rubber factory in Yala

Insurgents set fire to a factory in Yala province, with damages estimated in the hundred of millions of baht

A fire occured at a rubber purchasing factory in the muang district of Yala province at 1:10 AM today (February 21). Eyewitness reports indicate that approximately 10 security personnel were stationed at the factory's perimeter when 2 suspected insurgents hurled explosive flares into a rubber warehouse, resulting in a blazing inferno. Fire fighting personnel attempted to remove fuel sources from the premises but were obstructed by intense heat. Authorities said that as they were rushing to the scene, emergency vehicles were hampered by more than 30 minutes due to caltrops planted by suspected insurgent elements.

Fire fighters at the scene report that the fire still rages, with several hours required before the blaze is expected to be brought under control. Damages are estimated to be in the hundred of millions of baht. Authorities believe the incident to be an attempt to create disorder by southern insurgent groups.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 February 2007

[Jai Dee]

Gunmen shot and kill local school administrator in Narathiwat province

Gunmen shot and killed the assistant director of the Sukirin Wittiya (สุคิรินทร์วิทยา) School in Narathiwat province.

Authorities reported that on the evening of February 20, an unknown number of gunmen shot Mrs. Porntip Thiyapsen (พรทิพย์ ติยัพเสน), the Assistant Director of the Sukirin Wittiya (สุคิรินทร์วิทยา) School, as she was driving from the school to her residence in Sugnai Padee (สุไหงปาดี) district of Narathiwat province. The shooting occured on the Ban Juer Raa-Ban Dor Hae (บ้านจือแร-บ้านดอเฮ๊ะ) Road in Sughai Padee (สุไหงปาดี) district. Mrs. Porntip sustained critical injuries and expired at Sughai Padee Hospital at 6 PM on the same day.

Meanwhile the Superintendant of Sughai Padee district precinct, Pol Col Praparn Meemongkol (ปราบพาล มีมงคล ), immediately traveled to the crime scene to conduct investigations and coordinated with police and military forces in the area to collect evidence. Pol Col Praparn reported that the gunmen are expected to be local youths living in the area. He said that the incident was probably an attempt by insurgents to create disorder.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 February 2007

[kmart]

Don't take history lessons as a gospel.It's not what actually happened that's important - it's what the insurgents believe in what makes the conflict go on. The "real" history is important only if you could prove to THEM that Pattani has peacefully existed as part of the Siam for 400 years.

You could blame them for not knowing their own history but it won't help in the least.

What would help is tracking down who exactly is teaching/brainwashnig these young people into acts of terrible and cowardly murder. Unless I'm wrong and they're all over 400 years old.

Radical Muslim clerics are to be found all over the world these days. Britain; France; Australia; etc. These guys use the platform of democracy to stand up and attack it. Even simple parasites aren't stupid enough to kill their host,....

If they were a serious threat to our way of life, they would be wiped out overnight. I think they are just allowed enough rope and publicity to make themselves look primitive and foolish. - As "bogeyman" to cow a deluded population into accepting more intrusion and less personal freedoms. Same as the Communist threat of the Cold War era.

Radical religious views are not just confined to Islam, btw. What about the power that the radical Christians wield in the US? Those are some weird, rather scary people. They certainly don't have anything in common with their supposed "saviour", unless Jesus Christ was actually a war-mongering, multi-billionaire cynic?

[ColPyat]

So, there are precedents for countries striving for their independence. I don't advocate it at all, but there's a case to be made.

Absolutely right.

[ColPyat]

Good post Plus. Tribalism continues to threaten the stability of many nations- including Canada (not to mention, of course, Spain, Lebanon, Turkey, Morocco, Ireland... the list goes on and on). Throw a dash of religion into the mix and the pot begins to really bubble. It would be nice if all the combatants adhered to the methods of, say, the Quebec separatists (since the FLQ) or those that effectively broke up Czeckoslovakia- but --- for a range of reasons, such hope is pretty idealistic-

The sad part is, that in the end, most of these "countries" have very little hope to survive as independent nations in the modern world, and end up as eternal basket cases. East Timor is a prime example for that.

More often than not, after independence they do continue to fight for a considerable time to internally, now between factions.

A recent positive example how such a conflict can come to a good concusion is Aceh, with a mutually beneficial autonomy agreement.

Edited February 21, 2007 by ColPyat

[Jai Dee]

Human rights groups condemn Sunday’s bombings

Nine human rights organisations have issued a joint statement condemning the latest wave of bombings, arsons, and shootings in the four southern border provinces during the start of the Chinese New Year’s celebrations Sunday.

In the statement, they called on the government to bring the perpetrators to justice and compensate relatives of those who lost lives or suffered injuries. The groups which spearheaded the call for the lifting of the martial law and an end to conflicts in the deep south, blamed the interim government for lacking sincerity in resolving the crisis.

Angkana Neelaphaijit, whose lawyer husband went missing while investigating alleged police torture of Muslim suspects in detention, condemned the attacks which killed and injured civilians as a barbaric and inhumane act.

At least 7 were killed and about 50 were injured during the nearly simultaneous large scale attacks on Sunday.

“Violence will not bring a long term solution to the conflict, but it will breed more hatred and communal division. When the state resorts to violent means to counter the insurgency, the insurgents will then retaliate by launching more violent attacks,” she said. She urged the authorities to peaceful means to resolve the crisis.

Mrs Angkana, a member of the appointed National Legislative Assembly, also asked southern residents to exercise restraint and adhere to non-violence to show respect for the rule of law.

According to a military spokesman, the insurgents were trying to scare ethnic Chinese who celebrate the holiday into fleeing the predominantly Muslim region.

Source: TNA - 21 February 2007

[Jai Dee]

Interior Minister urges provincial governors to help monitor situation

Permanent Secretary of Interior, Pongpayom Wasaputti (พงศ์โพยม วาศภูติ) has revealed that Interior Minister Aree Wong-araya (อารีย์ วงศ์อารยะ) has instructed provincial governors nationwide to help monitor situation, to prevent possible violence.

Agencies have been urged to stay vigilant on intelligence. In addition, rally in Bangkok should be curbed, to prevent the negative consequences.

At the same time, the Director of the Southern Border Provinces Administrative Center, Mr. Pranai Suwanarat (พระนาย สุวรรณรัฐ ), viewed that Yala Province should issue arrest warrants against suspects involved in the February 18th violence incident.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 February 2007

[Pakboong]

Plus killing yourself defeats the purpose.

That line caught my attention

Colpyat is rigth here - what looks like subhuman indiscritminate killings actually follows logic.

Collateral damage (what US does) and delibirate targeting of civilians (what terrorists do) is not as far apart as some think. The US military strategy for ages, since WWII, has targeted civilian infrastructure rather than confronting enemy troops. Recent war in Yugoslavia was a perfect example - they brought the country down without engaging in any actual combat at all. Or take the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - this isssue is far from settled in the eyes of millions of people. They don't see Hiroshima as a military target, and it was attacked with a clear goal of scaring Japanese government into surrender.

I'm not taking sides here, I'm just reminding that the issue is still hotly debated. To many it was a biggest terrorist act in history.

Situation with guerilla warfare is in many ways similar. They know that given the choice the state would not hesitate to kill civilians and they don't see the government as morally superior in any way. In the south they target clear symbols of Thai state - governement offices, schools, or karaoke joints. They go after muslim "traitors", too. I think they resent "traitors" even more than they resent Thais.

Political solution is not possible at the moment as young fighters are not a political force and they won't listen or reason with anybody - PULO, Bersatu, or whoever.

Police can't o anything about violence among teenagers in Bangkok, forget the South.

Fire bombing Dresden killed more German civilians than the number of Japanese killed in both Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

[sriracha john]

A bad situation gets worse:

BREAKING NEWS

Insurgents attack convoy of Queen's aide

A convoy of Thanpuying Viriya Chawakul, a confidant to Her Majesty the Queen, was attacked by insurgents in Yala province Wednesday afternoon. One police officer, who was riding a motorcycle to lead the convoy, was injured from the shooting while Thanpuying Viriya escaped the bullets because she ducked down. Insurgents opened fire at the convoy of Thanpuying Viriya at around 4 p.m. She is the chairman of a foundation to boost morale of soldiers, police and volunteers in the southern border provinces. The foundation is under her royal patronage. Police suspected that more than 20 insurgents involved in the shooting.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=116968

[llso]

It certainly seems that the "insurgents" have been ramping up there attacks recently. I don't see any near term solution to this problem.

Fortunately the biggest problems have been confined to the deep south.

LL

[sriracha john]

Suspected separatists attack convoy of Thai queen's aide

Bangkok - In a rare act of hostility towards Thailand's royal family, suspected separatists in the southern province of Yala attacked a convoy carrying a close confident of Queen Sirikit on Wednesday, injuring one policeman.

An unknown number of insurgents opened fire on the convoy of Thanpuying Viriya Chavakul at about 4 p.m. as it drove towards Yala city, 760 kilometres south of Bangkok.

The Thanpuying, an honorific title bestowed by the Queen, escaped the hail of bullets by ducking down in the car seat, reported the Bangkok Post website.

She was returning from distributing charity goods from a royal foundation set up to boost the morale of soldiers stationed in the violence-torn deep South.

Attacks on the royal family or their development projects have been extremely rare in Thailand, where Thai King Bhumibol Adulyadej is highly revered, even in the troubled deep South.

It was the latest in a series of security blows to Yala province, which has been the target of several attacks this week.

Early Wednesday morning suspected separatists set alight Yala's largest rubber warehouse, sparking a 12-hour conflagration that sent billowing clouds of black smoke over the city.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=107571

Largest Rubber Warehouse In Far South Set Ablaze

The fire at the warehouse, owned by the Southland Rubber Company, was set shortly after midnight.

The arsonists scattered spikes on the road leading to the warehouse to slow down firefighters and emergency workers going to the site, on the rim of Yala City, 760 kilometres south of Bangkok.

Kiart Kittikulsereekam, a Southland Rubber manager, said the warehouse was the largest in Thailand's deep South, which comprises Narathiwat, Pattani and Yala provinces.

The fire destroyed an estimated 5,000 tonnes of rubber sheet intended for export, with total damages estimated at 400 million baht (11 million dollars), said the state-run Thai News Agency (TNA).

The attacks came on the heels of a spate of synchronized bombings and burnings on Sunday night in the three provinces that killed seven people and left more than 50 injured.

Sunday's attacks appeared to target the Sino-Thai business community, deemed the backbone of the southern economy.

Rubber plantations, most of them owned and managed by Sino-Thais, are one of the main sources of employment and income for the region, which has witnessed escalating violence over the past three years that has already claimed more than 1,900 lives.

Experts on the deep South say the separatists have been increasing efforts to terrorize the Chinese business community as a means of further destabilizing the economy and driving non-Muslims out of the three provinces which border Malaysia.

More than 80 per cent of the 2 million people living in Thailand's deep South are Muslim of ethnic Malay decent, with closer cultural affinities with neighbouring Malaysia than with the predominantly Buddhist Thai kingdom.

The region was an independent Islamic sultanate known as Pattani for hundreds of years, before it was conquered by Bangkok in 1786. The border provinces came under direct rule of the Thai bureaucracy in 1902.

A separatist struggle has simmered in the three-province region for the past five to six decades, fuelled by the local population's sense of religious and cultural alienation from Thailand.

The movement took a more militant turn in January 2004 after Muslim militants attacked an army arms depot and stole 300 rifles.

- DPA

Edited February 21, 2007 by sriracha john

[wintermute]

A bad situation gets worse:

BREAKING NEWS

Insurgents attack convoy of Queen's aide

A convoy of Thanpuying Viriya Chawakul, a confidant to Her Majesty the Queen, was attacked by insurgents in Yala province Wednesday afternoon. One police officer, who was riding a motorcycle to lead the convoy, was injured from the shooting while Thanpuying Viriya escaped the bullets because she ducked down. Insurgents opened fire at the convoy of Thanpuying Viriya at around 4 p.m. She is the chairman of a foundation to boost morale of soldiers, police and volunteers in the southern border provinces. The foundation is under her royal patronage. Police suspected that more than 20 insurgents involved in the shooting.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=116968

They just attacked a royal icon so all bets are off. I think it's going to get extremely bad soon.

[younghusband]

[quote name='Pakboong' date='2007-02-21 18:28:38' post='1154053'

Fire bombing Dresden killed more German civilians than the number of Japanese killed in both Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

No it didn't, one of the many misconceptions that surround the bombing of Dresden.The numbers killed at Dresden are generally thought to be about 25,000 rising to a maximum of 40,000.This makes the raid less lethal than those on Hamburg, and proportionately less deadly than those on places like Pforzheim and Wurzberg.Nevertheless it was a horrific event made worse by the fact air raid shelters were deficient.A further myth is that Dresden was a purely civilian target.In fact its railway marshalling yards were large and it had a conglomeration of war industries-particularly in the optics, electronics and communications fields.The city incidentally was fervently pro-Nazi, and there were massive demonstrations of support after the failure of the assasination plot on Hitler .After the war for propaganda the Russians invoked Dresden as an example of an allied war crime and so it seems to have passed into legend.The truth however was that Dresden was a functioning enemy administrative, industrial and communications centre that in February 1945 lay close to the front line.The British pilots did what they had to do.

Over 70,000 Japanese were killed at Hiroshima, and between 35-40,000 at Nagasaki.An approximate similar number were injured and an even larger suffered from long term radiation poisoning.Dreadful numbers but which should be seen against the context of an estimated loss of 500,000 American lives in the invasion of the mainland.

Apologies for the digression, but it does relate to the problems of the South as an example how truth and legend can get tangled up.

[bingobongo]

this junta has no intention of stepping down and only a matter of time before more bombings come to bangkok......

High risk of civil war in southern Thailand

"Meanwhile the ruling military junta seems to be more interested in consolidating its power in Bangkok than in finding a solution."

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&...8547&size=A

Edited February 21, 2007 by bingobongo

[blaze]

this junta has no intention of stepping down and only a matter of time before more bombings come to bangkok......

High risk of civil war in southern Thailand

"Meanwhile the ruling military junta seems to be more interested in consolidating its power in Bangkok than in finding a solution."

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&...8547&size=A

For 'consolidating' in the above quote, read, 'justifying'.

[Siripon]

this junta has no intention of stepping down and only a matter of time before more bombings come to bangkok......

High risk of civil war in southern Thailand

"Meanwhile the ruling military junta seems to be more interested in consolidating its power in Bangkok than in finding a solution."

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&...8547&size=A

Calling all Thaivisa experts.... what are your solutions?

1. Governors from local elections.

2. Muslim police and soldiers, civil servants.

3. Autonomy regarding local laws and taxes, Buddhists exempt fronm the former.

4.An independent state if approved in a referendum in the 3 provinces.

Of course no 4 is impossible for any Thai politician to implement but the first 3 seem feasible to me.

[blaze]

this junta has no intention of stepping down and only a matter of time before more bombings come to bangkok......

High risk of civil war in southern Thailand

"Meanwhile the ruling military junta seems to be more interested in consolidating its power in Bangkok than in finding a solution."

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&...8547&size=A

Calling all Thaivisa experts.... what are your solutions?

1. Governors from local elections.

2. Muslim police and soldiers, civil servants.

3. Autonomy regarding local laws and taxes, Buddhists exempt fronm the former.

4.An independent state if approved in a referendum in the 3 provinces.

Of course no 4 is impossible for any Thai politician to implement but the first 3 seem feasible to me.

ISOC has a 14000 man secret police. Can they not provide a smidgeon of knowledge about what is going on down there? How many organizations like this Pattani Restoration group are there? Is there any central command structure? What if any are it's foreign connections? To what extent does religion play a role? In other words- the gov't has to make a real effort to learn something more than simply who specifically triggered the bomb. It's called... intelligence.

Hey- maybe they can send the good people at ABAC down to do a poll!

Edited February 21, 2007 by blaze

[wintermute]

this junta has no intention of stepping down and only a matter of time before more bombings come to bangkok......

High risk of civil war in southern Thailand

"Meanwhile the ruling military junta seems to be more interested in consolidating its power in Bangkok than in finding a solution."

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&...8547&size=A

Calling all Thaivisa experts.... what are your solutions?

1. Governors from local elections.

2. Muslim police and soldiers, civil servants.

3. Autonomy regarding local laws and taxes, Buddhists exempt fronm the former.

4.An independent state if approved in a referendum in the 3 provinces.

Of course no 4 is impossible for any Thai politician to implement but the first 3 seem feasible to me.

1. Historically, stability in the south always hinged in allowing local leaders to come into power and maintain peace. I still believe this is the case but the new breed of insurgency is very extremist and I don't think the local islamic leaders have that much influence. Look at Pakistan as an example of this you have varying tribes of islamists and their leaders used to be able to sway them under the more "secular" rule of the law of the official government. They lost their power when the extremists felt that they were being used as a tool by infidels. I think the only thing to do is to do an analysis to see what the local population really feels about the situation and then change leadership.

2. You might very well end up with insurgent infiltrators working in the police force or military like Iraq and it would make the situation 10x worse.

3. I believe a greater degree of autonomy is the most realistic solution. Give them a different set of laws and new rights under islamic law and collective taxes/administrate with a proxy government. Complete independence will never happen but things will have to come to a turning point soon or it will slide deeper into oblivion.

[sriracha john]

this junta has no intention of stepping down and only a matter of time before more bombings come to bangkok......

High risk of civil war in southern Thailand

"Meanwhile the ruling military junta seems to be more interested in consolidating its power in Bangkok than in finding a solution."

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&...8547&size=A

Interesting site. I didn't know the Pope ran a news service

but anyway, Catholic bias aside in this Buddhist/Muslim issue...

Does your quote reflect the reality here? It seems that by reading any number of local articles the government is VERY much concerned in finding a solution to the ongoing problems in the South and have been focusing tremendously on that. Multiple reports in this very thread point to that.

Secondly, what leads you to your initial statement that the government doesn't plan to relinquish control according to its stated timelines?

Edited February 21, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

this junta has no intention of stepping down and only a matter of time before more bombings come to bangkok......

High risk of civil war in southern Thailand

"Meanwhile the ruling military junta seems to be more interested in consolidating its power in Bangkok than in finding a solution."

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&...8547&size=A

Calling all Thaivisa experts.... what are your solutions?

1. Governors from local elections.

2. Muslim police and soldiers, civil servants.

3. Autonomy regarding local laws and taxes, Buddhists exempt fronm the former.

4.An independent state if approved in a referendum in the 3 provinces.

Of course no 4 is impossible for any Thai politician to implement but the first 3 seem feasible to me.

ISOC has a 14000 man secret police. Can they not provide a smidgeon of knowledge about what is going on down there? How many organizations like this Pattani Restoration group are there? Is there any central command structure? What if any are it's foreign connections? To what extent does religion play a role? In other words- the gov't has to make a real effort to learn something more than simply who specifically triggered the bomb. It's called... intelligence.

Hey- maybe they can send the good people at ABAC down to do a poll!

How much intelligence in those areas was gathered by the Thaksin regime in 6 years? How much progress was made in resolving the crisis there did he make?