mtls2005 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 29 minutes ago, attrayant said: Then you're getting exactly what you voted for Other than the "billionaire" part of course. Unless he's speaking in rubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, riclag said: I gotta support the President of my country ,I have a loyalty Look where that got Cohen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proboscis Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, riclag said: Talking with one of the hosts of “Fox & Friends,” a morning show that Trump frequently praises on his Twitter account, insisted that the hush money came from him personally, not from the campaign. “They came from me,” he said. “And I tweeted about it. But they did not come out of the campaign.” https://www.courthousenews.com/immunity-for-national-enquirer-publishing-exec-in-trump-probe/ No evidence of Russian interference ,no evidence that he violated campaign violations, the crock of spin the TDS'ers are cooking doesn't past the smell test No evidence in Cohen's crimes of Russian collusion although there is evidence that "he" whether you are talking about Cohen or Trump both broke the law on campaign contributions - Cohen has been convicted of it and Trump would be (of conspiracy to do so and of ordering Cohen to do so) except that his Justice Department are of the opinion that a sitting president cannot be indicted or charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attrayant Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Proboscis said: No evidence in Cohen's crimes of Russian collusion Are you under the impression that the SDNY is investigating crimes of Russian collusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keemapoot Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Proboscis said: No evidence in Cohen's crimes of Russian collusion although there is evidence that "he" whether you are talking about Cohen or Trump both broke the law on campaign contributions - Cohen has been convicted of it and Trump would be (of conspiracy to do so and of ordering Cohen to do so) except that his Justice Department are of the opinion that a sitting president cannot be indicted or charged. Yeah, astoundingly, no matter what crimes Trump may have committed (and I suspect there are quite a few), he cannot be indicted or charged in any way so long as he is a sitting President. Moreover, the statute of limitations starts to run from the alleged time of the commission of the crime. In most cases, five years, so that if Trump somehow can weather the storm and manages to get re-elected, he will have beaten being punished for crimes by virtue of being President. Therefore, impeachment becomes the most realistic outcome here, and what follows from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Garvie Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, riclag said: No evidence of Russian interference ,no evidence that he violated campaign violations, the crock of spin the TDS'ers are cooking doesn't past the smell test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMHERE Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 If Trump doesn't 'Pardon' everyone the day he gets indicted , I'll be dissapointed I voted for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendejo Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 55 minutes ago, attrayant said: That's right. Cohen was just sentenced to three years because there was no evidence he violated campaign finance law, apparently. Yeah, and I was so hoping he'd confess to being a witch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, keemapoot said: Yeah, astoundingly, no matter what crimes Trump may have committed (and I suspect there are quite a few), he cannot be indicted or charged in any way so long as he is a sitting President. Moreover, the statute of limitations starts to run from the alleged time of the commission of the crime. In most cases, five years, so that if Trump somehow can weather the storm and manages to get re-elected, he will have beaten being punished for crimes by virtue of being President. Therefore, impeachment becomes the most realistic outcome here, and what follows from that. The arguments regarding indictment of a sitting President are as yet un-tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, IAMHERE said: If Trump doesn't 'Pardon' everyone the day he gets indicted , I'll be dissapointed I voted for him. You assume a co-conspirator can pardon himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, IAMHERE said: If Trump doesn't 'Pardon' everyone the day he gets indicted , I'll be dissapointed I voted for him. You assume a co-conspirator can pardon himself. Regardless, he cannot pardon State indictments or State convictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, keemapoot said: Yeah, astoundingly, no matter what crimes Trump may have committed (and I suspect there are quite a few), he cannot be indicted or charged in any way so long as he is a sitting President. Moreover, the statute of limitations starts to run from the alleged time of the commission of the crime. In most cases, five years, so that if Trump somehow can weather the storm and manages to get re-elected, he will have beaten being punished for crimes by virtue of being President. Therefore, impeachment becomes the most realistic outcome here, and what follows from that. Yes, the DOJ appears to have some sort of policy against indicting sitting Presidents. However, that does not prevent Trump's campaign and/or his companies from being indicted.... [Based on the Cohen plea and the AMI agreement, it appears increasingly likely that federal prosecutors have sufficient basis to charge the Trump Campaign with criminal campaign finance violations; and, prosecutors could well expressly ground such corporate criminal charges on the knowledge and intentions of Trump, as well as Cohen. Furthermore, this may be only the first of several instances in which one or more Trump owned or controlled companies could face criminal liability based upon the actions or corrupt intentions of the president.] https://www.thedailybeast.com/with-michael-cohen-going-to-prison-trumps-companies-and-campaign-could-be-indicted-next?ref=wrap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farcanell Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, riclag said: I voted for the billionaire provocateur not a politician! Loyal to 2024 The thing about loyalty is that it works both ways... hell, even the grocery shop at the end of the soi knows this, and gives little stamps out every time we shop there. Trumps volumn and frequency of lieing to his electorate is mind blowing.... almost as mind blowing ( but not quite) as folk continuing to support him, when they know he’s lieing to them. Assumedly its a phycological disorder. anyway.... the election of 2020 will be an opportunity to reward him for his lieing to yall.... so it will be an interesting election to watch, as the rest of the world wonders if trump will be rewarded for wantonly deceiving his electorate, or if he will be sanctioned for it... and then what will that say of the American “mindset.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendejo Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: You assume a co-conspirator can pardon himself. Regardless, he cannot pardon State indictments or State convictions. Lots of questions will surface. E.g. if a president can pardon someone who has not been convicted or indicted, or if he can issue one as a get out of jail free card, like in Monopoly, usable at a later date should an indictment come their way, and if so can he issue one to himself. The jeopardy will be if he is out of office before he can issue the valid pardons for his family members and cohorts. Uh-oh, I'm not looking for a discussion of the nuance of the present laws, but what DT and his cabal can get away with. If he does get convicted at some point, perhaps a lot of what he did as POTUS can be voided, like a post-dated non-specific self-pardon. Jail to the chief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just the tip of the iceberg lm sure mr muller will have lots to add Donald is a dirty little baby man let’s just hope we are safe through thease dangerous times with this unbalanced man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Thakkar said: Trump’s gone from it didn’t happen to - I knew nothing about it if it did happen- to ask my top lawyer - to he’s horrible lying lawyer to “it’s only civil” and isn’t illegal, a private transaction. If so, why lie about it to begin with? Meanwhle Hillary is the real criminal and must be locked up, even after years of seperate investigations and hundreds (thousands?) of hours of congressional testimonies found nothing of consequence. Someone ekse has said it better (emphasis mine): Downtown Josh Brown (@ReformedBroker) 13/12/18, 00:50 Individual 1 went from there were no payments to I didn’t know about the payments to I had nothing to do with the payments to fine there were payments so what. If you went along for the ride and defended each step, your opinion on all other matters is worthless. -x- with the caveat that, I can understand the first defense; after all, there is such a thing as the occasional false accusation. But knowing Trump’s proclivities and history, any such accusations are more believeable then not. Still, believeing the first denial is excusable. But continuing to not only believe, but to defend all the subsequent changes to the story saps all credibility from tha MAGA crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Thakkar said: Someone ekse has said it better (emphasis mine): Downtown Josh Brown (@ReformedBroker) 13/12/18, 00:50 Individual 1 went from there were no payments to I didn’t know about the payments to I had nothing to do with the payments to fine there were payments so what. If you went along for the ride and defended each step, your opinion on all other matters is worthless. trump assumes his "base" has the attention span of the dog in "Up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klauskunkel Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 hours ago, webfact said: "It was my own weakness and a blind loyalty to this man that led me to choose a path of darkness over light," This man is a poet. Write a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, klauskunkel said: This man is a poet. Write a book. Too close to "Blind Ambition"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpisgood Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, keemapoot said: Yeah, astoundingly, no matter what crimes Trump may have committed (and I suspect there are quite a few), he cannot be indicted or charged in any way so long as he is a sitting President. Moreover, the statute of limitations starts to run from the alleged time of the commission of the crime. In most cases, five years, so that if Trump somehow can weather the storm and manages to get re-elected, he will have beaten being punished for crimes by virtue of being President. Therefore, impeachment becomes the most realistic outcome here, and what follows from that. It seems to me that press works so hard to get the dramatic story, they sometimes overlook some important details for their readership. First of all, as I understand it, those saying that a sitting president are relying upon a US Dept. of Justice memo. Although, I am sure it was written by one or more attorneys, it is not settled law, i.e., it does not have to be followed by any court as a legal precedent. At most, it is merely a persuasive citation by a legal counsel arguing before a court that would be free to rule against it. I admit that I have not looked this up, so this is just an educated guess. In regards to a statute of limitations, if it does apply at all, I would not be surprised if the statute of limitations is tolled if a sitting president cannot be indicted. In other words, the clock on the statute of limitations would not start running until the very moment the person in question is no longer a sitting president. I may be wrong about that, but it would be consistent with other laws regarding the tolling of a statute of limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpisgood Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 hours ago, webfact said: "It was my own weakness and a blind loyalty to this man that led me to choose a path of darkness over light," Cohen told the judge during the sentencing hearing, referring to Trump. Cohen may be right about that. It is also true that an attorney is ethically required to fight for the interests of their clients. However, as an attorney (or a former one now?) and an officer of the court, he took an oath of loyalty to the US Constitution, not to Mr. Trump, in order to get his license to practice law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Blind loyalty? You are a lawyer, you should know (and avoid) unlawful behavior! How about utter stupidity!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keemapoot Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, helpisgood said: It seems to me that press works so hard to get the dramatic story, they sometimes overlook some important details for their readership. First of all, as I understand it, those saying that a sitting president are relying upon a US Dept. of Justice memo. Although, I am sure it was written by one or more attorneys, it is not settled law, i.e., it does not have to be followed by any court as a legal precedent. At most, it is merely a persuasive citation by a legal counsel arguing before a court that would be free to rule against it. I admit that I have not looked this up, so this is just an educated guess. In regards to a statute of limitations, if it does apply at all, I would not be surprised if the statute of limitations is tolled if a sitting president cannot be indicted. In other words, the clock on the statute of limitations would not start running until the very moment the person in question is no longer a sitting president. I may be wrong about that, but it would be consistent with other laws regarding the tolling of a statute of limitations. Obviously you are legally trained as am I, but like you, I have not researched this question, nor read any legal opinions, nor do I practice, but just read some press articles quoting legal experts. You may be correct about the tolling of the SOL, but again, doubt if that is settled law in this case so many of these issues will run up the chain of appeals probably when the time comes. As I understand it, the entire thing will get very messy and normally the political pressure compels resignation in the face of impeachment and/or promises of indictment, etc.. So, with someone as stubborn as Trump, we may have a chance to finally obtain some established laws on these issues if he doesn't resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: The arguments regarding indictment of a sitting President are as yet un-tested. The Only Way to Find Out If the President Can Be Indicted Scholars disagree on existing precedents—and the question won’t be settled until evidence leads a prosecutor to try it. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/05/presidential-indictment/560957/ If not indicting or delay in indicting the president imperils the statue of limitations, the prosecutor should - to protect the rule of law - indict the president and let the independent judiciary decide. It is not the prerogative of Trump's Department of Justice to decide the issue. The regulations contemplate that a special counsel could, in appropriate circumstances, depart from Justice Department policy. The idea was that if responsibility for decision-making was vested in Justice Department leadership, decisions to protect the rule of law were more likely to be made. And as a safeguard against wrongdoing by Justice Department leadership, the regulations require transparency in the process: If the acting attorney general refuses a special counsel request, he must notify the majority and minority parties in Congress. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/opinion/neal-katyal-indict-trump.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi49jr Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Blames 'blind loyalty greed'. There, fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro01 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 "Blind loyalty" - well, yes - that & actually breaking the law..... is he half Thai or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck2 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 hours ago, Langsuan Man said: You mean the hunt for indictments continues, the list so far: George Papadopoulos Paul Manafort Rick Gates Michael Flynn 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies Richard Pinedo Alex van der Zwaan Konstantin Kilimnik 12 Russian GRU officers Michael Cohen Sam Patten source: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/mueller-indictments-grand-jury It seems since 2016 it is a condition that the POTUS and his minions must be criminals in order to be elected. It's very sad that there are still politicians in the REP-Party and their followers who don't want to open their eyes. It's aching what happens in the USA, once a dignified idol and symbol of a democratic state. Now a state with a lot of criminals on the top. BTW, since Trump you are able to recognize so many failures and loopholes in the political system of the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, pedro01 said: "Blind loyalty" - well, yes - that & actually breaking the law..... Yes, when you are loyal to a criminal scumbag like Trump, you will most likely be encouraged to break the law at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 hours ago, helpisgood said: Cohen may be right about that. It is also true that an attorney is ethically required to fight for the interests of their clients. However, as an attorney (or a former one now?) and an officer of the court, he took an oath of loyalty to the US Constitution, not to Mr. Trump, in order to get his license to practice law. Moreover, there is no client attorney privilege where the two act to commit a crime. Trump’s admition that he did pay has destroyed any hope he has of claiming client attorney privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 That awkward moment with your wife, daughter and current squeeze (Ms. McDougal, far right) (BTW, Melania did look a lot better before all the "work"...she can barely open her eyes now. Looks more like Teddy Perkins on Atlanta now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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