German army floats plan to recruit foreigners

[webfact]

German army floats plan to recruit foreigners

 

A soldier of German army Bundeswehr sits in an armoured fighting vehicle as he participates in an exercise during a media day in Munster, Germany September 28, 2018. REUTERS/Fabian Bimmer

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - Struggling to fill its ranks, Germany's military is drawing up plans to recruit nationals from other European countries as part of a drive to beef up the armed forces.

 

Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen wants to recruit Poles, Italians and Romanians, magazine Der Spiegel said, citing a ministry document.

 

The German military, or Bundeswehr, has stepped up its recruitment efforts as part of a broader reset following Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014. Last year, Germany said it would increase the size of its armed forces to 198,000 active soldiers by 2024 from 179,000.

 

Pressure on Berlin mounted again in July when U.S. President Donald Trump told a NATO summit that Washington could withdraw support for the alliance if Europe did not boost military spending.

 

According to the classified ministry document, some 255,000 Poles, 185,000 Italians and 155,000 Romanians, aged between 18 and 40, live in Germany - about half all foreign EU nationals. If 10 percent of them could be interested in the Bundeswehr, that could generate 50,000 new applicants, it said.

 

It did not say if they would serve alongside Germans in regular regiments, or would form their on units akin to the French Foreign Legion.

 

There was no comment available from the ministry when it was contacted by Reuters.

 

The Defence Ministry wants to limit the group of potential recruits to those who have already lived in Germany for several years and speak fluent German, Der Spiegel said.

 

Such limits would aim to minimise concern among other European Union countries about Germany luring their potential soldiers by offering better pay.

 

The ministry had sounded out defence attaches in other EU countries about the plan in recent months with "very different results", Der Spiegel said, with Eastern European countries particularly worried about the impact on their own recruitment.

 

Polish Foreign Minister Jacek Czaputowicz told the magazine that military service was "closely tied to nationality".

 

To help attract new recruits, the Bundeswehr is also targeting youngsters in Germany, where the army remains a sensitive career choice more than 70 years after World War Two.

 

(Writing by Paul Carrel; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-12-28

[blazes]

Rumania, Italy, Poland???  All of them countries invaded by "Who's This Then?" [Basil Fawlty trying to amuse the Germans].

[blazes]

Still, it's not much different than FIFA or UEFA and their definitions of nationality.  Even if you were born dahn saaf in Lahndahn but you've got an Irish granny, you can play for the Oirish national team in football.

[DoctorG]

Shades of Waffen SS.

[Tweedle dee]

Bugger me !! lunch box with every rifle, i'm in .  TD

[connda]

They should start drafting ME/NA migrants.  "Want to stay in Germany? Fine.  Defend the country to show your support."  Easy.

[blazes]

1 minute ago, connda said:

They should start drafting ME/NA migrants.  "Want to stay in Germany? Fine.  Defend the country to show your support."  Easy.

Bit risky -- giving them guns to play with.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

plans to recruit nationals from other European countries as part of a drive to beef up the armed forces.

Not an unusual plan.

In the US a legal immigrant with a green card, permanently residing in the US can enlist in the military.

[KKr]

as a career choice, I think Army is not necessarily the wrong thing.
good education, and after ending the contract usually better chances to get a job than those that could not afford education.

As for the EU, as long as some states / countries do not think that they are better than others, I think that it would make sense to have one army.
Imagine, Virgin Islands, Alaska and Vermont etc. all have to fund their own armies, how inefficient that would be.

[KKr]

7 minutes ago, blazes said:

Bit risky -- giving them guns to play with.

who are "them". ?

did you mean folks that have lived in a foreign country for years and speak the language fluently ?
most likely second generation migrant workers, what is wrong with "them"?

Edited December 28, 2018 by KKr

[Gracas]

6 minutes ago, blazes said:

Bit risky -- giving them guns to play with.

You could let them bring their own.

[blazes]

2 minutes ago, KKr said:

as a career choice, I think Army is not necessarily the wrong thing.
good education, and after ending the contract usually better chances to get a job than those that could not afford education.

As for the EU, as long as some states / countries do not think that they are better than others, I think that it would make sense to have one army.
Imagine, Virgin Islands, Alaska and Vermont etc. all have to fund their own armies, how inefficient that would be.

Inefficient, but good for the arms industry....

[Enoon]

7 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Not an unusual plan.

In the US a legal immigrant with a green card, permanently residing in the US can enlist in the military.

 

I believe the British Army has been recruiting from half way around the world for many years:

 

 

 

[roo860]

 
I believe the British Army has been recruiting from half way around the world for many years:
 

 
 

And what outstanding soldiers they are!!!!!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[evadgib]

Uk and France (the only other Armies of note in Europe) have been doing this for years and on the whole it seems to work. The Bundeswehr are disciplined, well equipped and very good at that they do (or at least were during the cold war) and i'm all for it.

 

Do they still have conscription? 

[KKr]

5 minutes ago, blazes said:

Inefficient, but good for the arms industry....

IMHO, what is good for the arms industry, maybe good for stability in the areas that produce armory, but in the place where its production is flogged arms do not necessarily improve stability or feed the people.
To the contrary, in many cases arms line pockets of power hungry criminals and dictators at the expense of the population.

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, KKr said:

As for the EU, as long as some states / countries do not think that they are better than others, I think that it would make sense to have one army.

Several nations and/or their politicians render this impossible.

[KKr]

20 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Uk and France (the only other Armies of note in Europe) have been doing this for years and on the whole it seems to work. The Bundeswehr are disciplined, well equipped and very good at that they do (or at least were during the cold war) and i'm all for it.

 

Do they still have conscription? 

Conscription remains in the Constitution, but was suspended from July 2011.

Edited December 28, 2018 by KKr
grammar

[KKr]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Several nations and/or their politicians render this impossible.

indeed, unfortunately the Union is proving to be even shallower than even I would have thought.

[Nyezhov]

53 minutes ago, KKr said:

as a career choice, I think Army is not necessarily the wrong thing.
good education, and after ending the contract usually better chances to get a job than those that could not afford education.

As for the EU, as long as some states / countries do not think that they are better than others, I think that it would make sense to have one army.
Imagine, Virgin Islands, Alaska and Vermont etc. all have to fund their own armies, how inefficient that would be.

They all have their own National Guard. Some of the most storied formations in US military history were National Guard regiments, albiet federally funded.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:

They all have their own National Guard. Some of the most storied formations in US military history were National Guard regiments, albiet federally funded.

Ancient history? Ray Odierno commissioned a report that was supposed to be open and objective about the army's failings in Iraq. The Army ultimately stifled its publication. The study didn't have a high regard for the profiency of National Guard troops. 

"It says the Army made mistakes, such as when then-Army chief of staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker decided to proceed in 2003 and 2004 with a restructuring of Army combat brigades. That meant the Army had fewer active-duty brigades to send to Iraq at a critical time, the study found, forcing it to rely on less proficient National Guard units."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-army-ordered-an-unvarnished-iraq-war-historythen-let-it-languish-1540220153

Which is hardly surprising given the sporadic nature of their training.

[marko kok prong]

They did this before,it did not end well.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

Uk and France (the only other Armies of note in Europe) have been doing this for years and on the whole it seems to work. The Bundeswehr are disciplined, well equipped and very good at that they do (or at least were during the cold war) and i'm all for it.

 

Do they still have conscription? 

 

My step-son, a career NCO in the British Army served in the Balkans with NATO. He was full of praise for the Americans and Canadian units he served with. The French, good but at that time refusing to speak English and insisting everyone had to conform with their systems and ways. But he found the German, albeit support and service only units to be poor. Not good at all. 

 

The GSG border guards were the front line against possible Soviet era aggression. But Germany relied on NATO defense and it's military is only really recently starting to re-establish itself, like the Japanese.  

 

The German Defense Minister, btw, publicly applauded the Brexit vote and stated she was pleased as the EU could now push ahead with plans for a EU Army, which the British were firmly opposed to. Guess where she thinks it should have it's HQ?

[sawadee1947]

3 hours ago, KKr said:

as a career choice, I think Army is not necessarily the wrong thing.
good education, and after ending the contract usually better chances to get a job than those that could not afford education.

As for the EU, as long as some states / countries do not think that they are better than others, I think that it would make sense to have one army.
Imagine, Virgin Islands, Alaska and Vermont etc. all have to fund their own armies, how inefficient that would be.

It's already on the way. There are allied forces contributed by Germany, France and Benelux states. 

[balo]

No thanks , I'm not joining the other side.

My grand dad who fought the Germans would not like that , bless him . 

 

[bristolboy]

Not so surprising.

September 2018 and year to date were 4th hottest on record for the globe

https://www.noaa.gov/news/september-2018-and-year-to-date-were-4th-hottest-on-record-for-globe

And this is not an El Nino Year.

[billd766]

8 hours ago, evadgib said:

Uk and France (the only other Armies of note in Europe) have been doing this for years and on the whole it seems to work. The Bundeswehr are disciplined, well equipped and very good at that they do (or at least were during the cold war) and i'm all for it.

 

Do they still have conscription? 

Unfortunately well equipped is not exactly the correct term to use for the German armed forces.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46692176

 

How unprepared is the German army?

Germany aims to have 70% of its fighting capacity ready for combat at any time, but recent reports show it is falling short:

Only about a third of 97 newly manufactured tanks, fighter jets and helicopters was combat-ready, Die Zeit reported in October (in German)

 

No submarines or large transport planes were available for deployment at the end of last year, a military report said in February

 

The same report said existing fighter planes, tanks, helicopters and ships were in "dramatically bad" condition

 

About 21,000 officer posts remained unfilled, Deutsche Welle reported

 

How did shortages hit Merkel's G20 trip?

The spotlight fell on military shortages late last month when Chancellor Angela Merkel had to fly to the G20 summit in Argentina by passenger plane because of a technical failure involving one of the military's two long-haul planes.

[evadgib]

44 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Unfortunately well equipped is not exactly the correct term to use for the German armed forces.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46692176

 

How unprepared is the German army?

Germany aims to have 70% of its fighting capacity ready for combat at any time, but recent reports show it is falling short:

Only about a third of 97 newly manufactured tanks, fighter jets and helicopters was combat-ready, Die Zeit reported in October (in German)

 

No submarines or large transport planes were available for deployment at the end of last year, a military report said in February

 

The same report said existing fighter planes, tanks, helicopters and ships were in "dramatically bad" condition

 

About 21,000 officer posts remained unfilled, Deutsche Welle reported

 

How did shortages hit Merkel's G20 trip?

The spotlight fell on military shortages late last month when Chancellor Angela Merkel had to fly to the G20 summit in Argentina by passenger plane because of a technical failure involving one of the military's two long-haul planes.

I'm sorry to hear that but am not altogether surprised when you look at the constant cutting of our own.

[Burma Bill]

Germany recruiting Poles - a certain Adolf would have gone into a furious rage!

[Naam]

12 hours ago, evadgib said:

Uk and France (the only other Armies of note in Europe) have been doing this for years and on the whole it seems to work. The Bundeswehr are disciplined, well equipped and very good at that they do (or at least were during the cold war) and i'm all for it.

 

Do they still have conscription? 

no.