Record-Breaking Number Of Americans Want To Get Out Of U.S. Forever

[Hanaguma]

38 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Gee, wouldn't it be great if there were other economically developed countries out there that actually gave universal health care, had better outcomes, and did it for less than it costs in the USA? 

Still waiting to hear your answer .  Everyone just get in line? Or can people choose to spend their money to get better care?

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Still waiting to hear your answer .  Everyone just get in line? Or can people choose to spend their money to get better care?

All other wealthy nations spend far less on health care per capita, manage to insure all their citizens, and somehow get better outcomes.

U.S. Health Care Ranks Last Among Wealthy Countries

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/infographic/2014/jun/us-health-care-ranks-last-among-wealthy-countries

[Hanaguma]

Just now, bristolboy said:

All other wealthy nations spend far less on health care per capita, manage to insure all their citizens, and somehow get better outcomes.

U.S. Health Care Ranks Last Among Wealthy Countries

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/infographic/2014/jun/us-health-care-ranks-last-among-wealthy-countries

I'm not talking about insuring all citizens. I am talking about rich people being able to buy better health care if they want to. You haven't answered that question yet. In Canada, they can't so they use the USA as an alternative health care system. Doctors in Canada aren't allowed to open private clinics except in very limited and narrow circumstances. They are legally obligated to join the provincial health care system, and would be jailed if they tried to open their own surgery.

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I'm not talking about insuring all citizens. I am talking about rich people being able to buy better health care if they want to. You haven't answered that question yet. In Canada, they can't so they use the USA as an alternative health care system. Doctors in Canada aren't allowed to open private clinics except in very limited and narrow circumstances. They are legally obligated to join the provincial health care system, and would be jailed if they tried to open their own surgery.

Canada sounds good to me. And let the rich people travel to the USA. Or Switzerland. Or wherever.

[anon4546543]

On 1/8/2019 at 9:24 AM, khwaibah said:

Don't let the door hit your butt.????

Don't forget to turn the lights off before you go.

[Hanaguma]

34 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Canada sounds good to me. And let the rich people travel to the USA. Or Switzerland. Or wherever.

You might want to try living it first. Not to mention it isn't just rich people that want to pay extra for faster care. Imagine your mum needs a knee replacement. The provincial health service can do it in 9 to 12 months, if you are lucky. Or you can cross the border to New York and get it done next Wednesday for $15-20,000.  What would you do?  Consider if the US goes the Canadian way and effectively turns doctors into indentured servants. Still sound good?

[bristolboy]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

You might want to try living it first. Not to mention it isn't just rich people that want to pay extra for faster care. Imagine your mum needs a knee replacement. The provincial health service can do it in 9 to 12 months, if you are lucky. Or you can cross the border to New York and get it done for $15-20,000.  What would you do?  Consider if the US goes the Canadian way and effectively turns doctors into indentured servants. Still sound good?

First of all, Canada isn't the only other medical system besides the US. Do all other systems ban private clinics? Is Canada the only other option? So it seems you're setting up a false and limited set of choices.

[Hanaguma]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

This source says the share of uninsured Americans peaked at 18% in 2013, then started declining because of Obamacare, and then began rising again the past couple years amid Republican efforts to kill/gut Obamacare/ACA.

 

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/01/17/477331.htm

 

Eighteen percent, to me, is a bit more than "a relatively small percentage."

 

 

Depending on which numbers and years you pick, that worked out to between 30 and 40+ million Americans without any health insurance.

 

True. 82% of people had coverage alread. Less than a fifth did not. Yet of those people, how many don't even want health insurance? Some research suggests that this could be close to half the number, especially young people without kids. Others say that the insurance is still to expensive.  

 

If you want a preview of fully socialized medicine, look no further than the Veteran's Administration system in the US.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You might want to try living it first. Not to mention it isn't just rich people that want to pay extra for faster care. Imagine your mum needs a knee replacement. The provincial health service can do it in 9 to 12 months, if you are lucky. Or you can cross the border to New York and get it done next Wednesday for $15-20,000.  What would you do?  Consider if the US goes the Canadian way and effectively turns doctors into indentured servants. Still sound good?

 

Perhaps that's why Canada ranked poorly in the international healthcare study that Bristolboy posted above, just barely above the U.S...... But that didn't stop another nine comparatively wealthy countries with national health care to being rated much better than both the Canada and the U.S.  So obviously, there are better systems out there that are working for their citizens and providing better outcomes.

 

 

 

[Hanaguma]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

First of all, Canada isn't the only other medical system besides the US. Do all other systems ban private clinics? Is Canada the only other option? So it seems you're setting up a false and limited set of choices.

Are you saying that you approve of letting doctors set up private practice alongside of the national/social system? 

 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Are you saying that you approve of letting doctors set up private practice alongside of the national/social system? 

 

It seems to work in countries that allow it. And they still offer much better healthcare at a far lower cost than does the USA.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

True. 82% of people had coverage alread. Less than a fifth did not. Yet of those people, how many don't even want health insurance? Some research suggests that this could be close to half the number, especially young people without kids. Others say that the insurance is still to expensive.  

 

If you want a preview of fully socialized medicine, look no further than the Veteran's Administration system in the US.

 

And of course, your hero has done his part by working to reverse the past trend of fewer uninsured Americans, through his and other Republican efforts to gut/kill ACA, thus driving back up the uninsured population the past several years, and pushing many into the choice between unaffordably high premiums or no health insurance at all.

 

The reason for uninsured Americans who may not want health insurance I'm sure is directly related to the high premiums and not working in jobs that provide employer provided health insurance, either at all, or at a reasonable price. And Trump and his ilk have only made things worse, and done nothing to either make health insurance more affordable for Americans or to reduce the population of the uninsured.

 

 

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And of course, your hero has done his part by working to reverse the past trend of fewer uninsured Americans, through his and other Republican efforts to gut/kill ACA, thus driving back up the uninsured population the past several years, and pushing many into the choice between unaffordably high premiums or no health insurance at all.

 

The reason for uninsured Americans who may not want health insurance I'm sure is directly related to the high premiums and not working in jobs that provide employer provided health insurance, either at all, or at a reasonable price. And Trump and his ilk have only made things worse, and done nothing to either make health insurance more affordable for Americans or to reduce the population of the uninsured.

 

 

It's not that they don't want it, it's that they can't afford it. That's why when Republicans claim they want to leave it to individuals to make their own health care choices based on what's best for them, what they're really saying is let's leave decent health care unaffordable for many Americans. Who in their right mind, if they could afford it, would go without decent medical coverage? And what with increasing deductibles in employer-provided health insurance, the problem is getting worse.

[mike787]

leave the US and go where?  Universal health care is NOT free!  Look at your taxes. Politicians!  Really!  They are all puppets the at "selected" NOT "elected"  Come on here!  Ok, I agree the gun things is out of control, but not as bad as Thai roads.  Just to be clear here on my position:  I love Thailand and the US but live in neither.  There are good and bad points, and some things I find that are deal breakers about many countries...

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, mike787 said:

leave the US and go where?  Universal health care is NOT free!  Look at your taxes. Politicians!  Really!  They are all puppets the at "selected" NOT "elected"  Come on here!  Ok, I agree the gun things is out of control, but not as bad as Thai roads.  Just to be clear here on my position:  I love Thailand and the US but live in neither.  There are good and bad points, and some things I find that are deal breakers about many countries...

It may not be free, but it consumes a much lower percentage of GDP in all other wealthy nations and they get better outcomes.

[EVENKEEL]

Wait till more young folks with mindset of Ms Cortez get involved in government and start dragging the US into socialism. That's where we're heading.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Wait till more young folks with mindset of Ms Cortez get involved in government and start dragging the US into socialism. That's where we're heading.

 

You mean like having, heaven forbid, Social Security and Medicare???

 

I'm sure Putin and Castro are just giddy with glee and anticipation at the prospect of the U.S. becoming a socialist state... 

[direction BANGKOK]

11 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Of course rich people get better care if they choose. They're rich. They should be free to spend their money how they choose. Rich people can also drive better/safer cars, live in bigger/safer houses, eat better/healthier food, and so on. So why shouldn't they be able to spend more on their health and medical care if they wish?

 

My solution would be a hybrid system where public health care covers emergency care and private clinics\doctors have the right to also practice as they choose. A one size fits all system generally fits none. 

 

Are you still a fan of the parliamentary system over the Electoral College, given how skewed the results weere?

They should and they can. Where on earth are you living rich people can't get care? Your arguement topples. 

 

This is about people not being able to get care. This is about people laying in hospital beds after just having accidents and worrying about bills piling up. 

 

This is what the system you are in favor of results in: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health-expenditure

 

There is not much arguing to do. If you like Canada, do it up. If you like the USA, come on over. But, for poor and even middle class people living in the usa it is a nightmare. I had a friend in college sew up his own eye after a laceration with a huge, ugly looking needle because a trip to the hospital would have cost him probably his $1000 deductable. True story, swear on my mother. It is just a total joke of a system.

 

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You mean like having, heaven forbid, Social Security and Medicare???

 

I'm sure Putin and Castro are just giddy with glee and anticipation at the prospect of the U.S. becoming a socialist state... 

We have SS and Medicare already. Ms. Cortez is talking in favor of crazy tax rates like 80%. Re distributing the wealth is what the progressive libs want.

 

[Hanaguma]

7 hours ago, direction BANGKOK said:

They should and they can. Where on earth are you living rich people can't get care? Your arguement topples. 

 

This is about people not being able to get care. This is about people laying in hospital beds after just having accidents and worrying about bills piling up. 

 

This is what the system you are in favor of results in: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health-expenditure

 

There is not much arguing to do. If you like Canada, do it up. If you like the USA, come on over. But, for poor and even middle class people living in the usa it is a nightmare. I had a friend in college sew up his own eye after a laceration with a huge, ugly looking needle because a trip to the hospital would have cost him probably his $1000 deductable. True story, swear on my mother. It is just a total joke of a system.

 

The problem in Canada isn't for the people, but for the health care professionals who are virtually enslaved by the system. It leads to brain drain where many of the best and most ambitious head for greener pastures (read USA).

 

As for your friend, if he doesn't have a thousand bucks available for a health emergency, then he has larger problems than a cut over his eye. 

 

The US needs more free market and less interference. Too many regulations about who can open a clinic, what they can do, etc. People are at the mercy of insurance companies and their toadies in government. They conspire to screw the public. This is why prices are so insane.