Issue regarding 'Australian Citizenship By Descent' application

[Brock05]

Hello, this is my first post on this forum, grateful for any advice and suggestions.

 

I recently applied for Australian Citizenship By Descent for my 1 year old daughter in Thailand. I completed form #118 and supplied all the required documents and paperwork to the embassy in Bangkok (via VFS Global). However approx 1 week later someone from the embassy called my daughter's mother and asked her if she was aware that I was doing this. I thought this a little strange seeing as she was with me when we applied and she signed certified documents relating to the application. Then a few hours later I received an email from them requesting further information, including a statement of our relationship, and evidence (including photos etc) of that relationship. I am puzzled by this as I am not applying for any type of "Partner Visa" for her. So I don't think any of that info is relevant to my daughter's citizenship application. They also want proof of my relationship with my daughter, including evidence of financial support, photos etc.

When I did my initial research before making the application, I didn't see, nor was I told of, any requirement or condition that linked my daughter's entitlement to citizenship to my relationship with her mother. The Australian gov website clearly states - "A child born overseas can be registered as an Australian citizen by descent if at least one of the biological parents was an Australian citizen at the time of the child's birth".  And nowhere in the application form #118 are there any questions pertaining to the nature of my relationship with her mother, or with my child for that matter.

So why am I being asked to provide this info? I feel the embassy in Bangkok is encroaching here, and this info is neither relevant nor required by Australian Dept of Home Affairs. Could it just be a case of an overzealous local (Thai) member of staff, or a misunderstanding or clerical error? I mean surely if I knew her mother for 10 years before our child was born, or, if I met her for the first time the night she was conceived, would my daughter not still be my daughter as I am her biological parent in both instances? And would she not be equally eligible for Australian citizenship by descent by that definition?

I would like to hear what others on the forum have to say about this before I reply to the embassy and question/challenge this.

Thanks in advance

[samran]

From the Australian embassy website in Indonesia, but I'm guessing the rules will be the same. She should get it no worries once you show the requisite documents.

 

See Point 9.

 

9. Evidence of parents’ relationship (if the child’s mother is not an Australian Citizen)
This is to satisfy the decision-maker that a spousal relationship between the parents had been established prior conception of the child and the child is a natural child of the Australian parent.
• Marriage certificate of the child’s parents
• If the parents of the child are not married or were not married at least nine months prior to the child's birth, following documents must be provided:
• Pre-natal medical records of mother, including any ultrasound and/or doctors’ reports;
• Post-natal medical records of the applicant;
• Evidence that demonstrates that parents had been in a relationship at the time of or before the conception of the child (for instance, documents showing joint travel, cohabitation, correspondence, joint bank accounts, copies of passport pages with travel stamps/records, etc  
• If the parents were not married in Indonesia and their marriage certificate is not in English, an official translation of the certificate is required;

 

https://indonesia.embassy.gov.au/jakt/checklist_cbd.html

[Brock05]

Thank you for your response Samran. Interesting that this info is a prerequisite in Indonesia but not other countries? I wonder if that has anything to do with Indonesian law/cultural sensitivities. Had this info been requested or required of me when I made the application I would have provided it at the time, however providing it after the fact will present logistical issues.

As the requirements for citizenship are linked to being the "biological parent", I guess I am just dubious as to why the embassy in Thailand want evidence of a relationship. Are they implying that a child born out of wedlock, or to parents not in a relationship, doesn't qualify for citizenship? Or are they basically telling me in a round about way that they don't believe I am the father? I am not married, nor do I live with my daughter's mother, and I am now concerned that this will negatively affect my daugher's application.

[samran]

18 minutes ago, Brock05 said:

Thank you for your response Samran. Interesting that this info is a prerequisite in Indonesia but not other countries? I wonder if that has anything to do with Indonesian law/cultural sensitivities. Had this info been requested or required of me when I made the application I would have provided it at the time, however providing it after the fact will present logistical issues.

As the requirements for citizenship are linked to being the "biological parent", I guess I am just dubious as to why the embassy in Thailand want evidence of a relationship. Are they implying that a child born out of wedlock, or to parents not in a relationship, doesn't qualify for citizenship? Or are they basically telling me in a round about way that they don't believe I am the father? I am not married, nor do I live with my daughter's mother, and I am now concerned that this will negatively affect my daugher's application.

I don't think they are saying that a child born out of wedlock doesn't qualify for citizenship, but they need to be certain that the child is 'indeed' yours. Photo's, proof of relationship etc are one way, DNA testing is another I guess if it comes down to it. Their way to prevent fradualent citizenship grants i guess (and I'm not implying you are...)

 

I suspect that this is a global thing, but the OZ embassy in Indonesia has made it explicit.

 

Is it fair? Probably not given that nothing is different between a married and unmarried couple, except the marriage certificate...ie a piece of paper.

 

Another quirk from the Thai side of things too is that 'anyone' (well anyone who is male) can be put down as the father on a Thai birth certificate. Under Thai law, that gives an unmarried father no parental rights whatsoever, and they are expected to legitimise the fatherhood through Thai courts, or, get married. I'm not sure if that adds any flavour to things for the Australian embassy.

 

Anyway, all the best. Good luck with the rest of it.

Edited January 11, 2019 by samran

[Brock05]

Yes that's true, you have a valid point there. Assuming there are local legal/cultural issues in the mix, then the fact that the Thai birth certificate doesn't actually prove anything would create the need for something more substantial. I hadn't thought of that. Hopefully the photos etc will negate the need for a costly DNA test. I just wish they had told me to provide this info in the first place because I am not in the country now. Thanks for the advice Samran.