Farang Father Obtaining new Thai Passport for Children

[Clifford S]

Hi

 

My 2 kids are British/Thai and have British and Thai Passports and Birth Certificates. The Ex (we were never married BTW) who has hardly seen the kids in the past year has taken one of the Thai Passports and wont renew the other Thai passport. The Ex is planning to move abroad within the next few months. I have Court document to say I am the legal father (and DNA tests also!)....

 

So the question is (and I guess I know the answer), without the Thai Mother's written consent is there no way I can get my kids Thai passports until they are 15 when I believe they can do it themselves ?

 

And Yes I might be able to compensate the Ex financially to do provide consent but I find that a tad annoying and her view of compensation usually has a few more digits (ie 6-7) involved than mine !

 

Cheers,

Cliffy.

[lopburi3]

UK passports work rather well for most countries.  Their Thai nationality would allow one year extensions of stay on any UK passport entry if travel planned - not ideal but not hard if need to do.  Those court papers are just you are father - not that you have custody I suspect?  Believe she would have to provide permission for any travel in that case - so if travel not in cards perhaps no need for passports?   If travel allowed UK passports can be used by Thai and any entry extended yearly on basis of Thai nationality.

[blackcab]

Hi Cliffy

 

You are completely right in what you say.

 

Don't forget you will also need their mother's written permission to take the children out of the country, which is obtained from the District Office.

 

The mother will, of course, have to present herself to obtain that for you.

[Clifford S]

Hi Lopburi

 

Court papers are just declaring me as the father. Not Custody related.

 

I have travelled abroad a few times with the kids (without the mother) leaving with Thai Passports re-entering on Thai passports. I did have written permission from the mother on those occasions but Immigration never asked for anything.

 

We do like to travel abroad 2-3 times a year and still want to. Are you suggesting then I can use the British Passports and get a year Permit to stay on Entry. But wouldn't need to get the kids a Thai Visa in a Thai Embassy abroad...but might not be able to leave Thailand on the British passports to do so !

 

OR could I get the kids the Ed Visa at an embassy without them present ?

Presumably the kids can get a ED Visa for Thailand then ie like non-Thai kids at International schools.

Sorry just thinking out loud here....

 

Phewwwwwwwwwwwwww...

 

Cheers

Cliffy

[blackcab]

Just to add, perhaps you should bide your time. If the mother gets married and moves abroad, that is a good time to apply for full custody.

 

It would be somewhat difficult for her argue against, and you can take the position that you need to be able to make daily decisions for the children's benefit.

 

Would she even return and risk her new relationship?

[Preacher]

You need the mother's permission to get a (new) Thai passport, including when they turn 15. Thai age of majority is 20 years and until than both parents have to give permission.

 

She can fill in the form and have it witnessed by the amphur.

 

Not sure if the children can leave on a British passport as they last entered on a Thai passport. Might at the least raise questions regarding permission from the mother.

[Clifford S]

20 hours ago, blackcab said:

Just to add, perhaps you should bide your time. If the mother gets married and moves abroad, that is a good time to apply for full custody.

 

It would be somewhat difficult for her argue against, and you can take the position that you need to be able to make daily decisions for the children's benefit.

 

Would she even return and risk her new relationship?

Hi BlackCab,

 

Good tactics, I was considering applying for custody in the very near future as the kids have lived with me 95% of the time over the past year but agree waiting til she has moved abroad would be a good idea, not sure I could wait until she might get married though !

 

Cheers

Cliffy

Edited January 12, 2019 by Clifford S

[Clifford S]

19 hours ago, Preacher said:

You need the mother's permission to get a (new) Thai passport, including when they turn 15. Thai age of majority is 20 years and until than both parents have to give permission.

 

She can fill in the form and have it witnessed by the amphur.

 

Not sure if the children can leave on a British passport as they last entered on a Thai passport. Might at the least raise questions regarding permission from the mother.

 

Ah that's a real shame re 15 years... 

 

I wonder what will happen if I try to leave on a British passport, I don't mean leave Thailand full-time, I mean leave for a weekend in Singapore for example ....

 

 

[blackcab]

3 hours ago, Clifford S said:

not sure I could wait until she might get married though !

 

Just wait until she has moved abroad and established herself a bit.

 

3 hours ago, Clifford S said:

Ah that's a real shame re 15 years...

 

As stated, from 15 onwards the mother does not need to be present at the application but she does need to sign a document granting consent.

 

3 hours ago, Clifford S said:

I wonder what will happen if I try to leave on a British passport, I don't mean leave Thailand full-time, I mean leave for a weekend in Singapore for example ....

 

There is every chance you would be refused.  The British passports would have no entry stamp in them, which is the first thing immigration look for. I rather believe you would be refused and immigration would start asking to see the mother's consent letter.

 

To avoid all of this in the future you need to get the kids out one more time. To Singapore is enough. When you arrive at Singapore, switch to their UK passports and use them to enter and later, exit Singapore. On arrival in Thailand use their British passports to enter. Immigration may ask to see their Thai passports, but explain you don't have them with you. (You could, for example, have left them in Singapore if the children were applying for a visa from an embassy or consulate in a third country. You might be going back to Singapore to collect their passports in a couple of days).

 

Once the children are in Thailand on their British passports they can leave on their British passports, and there is less chance of immigration asking for a parental authority letter.

 

The downside is that the children will need permission to stay (an extension of stay) and will be subject to 90 day reporting.

 

The good news is that as a Thai citizen they can get a 1 year extension of stay in their British passport (ask in the Visa forum for more details). Their 90 day reports will also be in sync with yours, which will make matters easier.

 

The extension of stay and 90 day reports are negatives, however the positive is your wife will not be able to hold you to ransom as easily in the future.

 

I know it is always said that Thai citizens should enter Thailand on a Thai passport. This reason is the exception to the rule, and you will have to decide if it is worth it in your particular circumstances.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, Clifford S said:

Ah that's a real shame re 15 years... 

I wonder what will happen if I try to leave on a British passport, I don't mean leave Thailand full-time, I mean leave for a weekend in Singapore for example ....

Why not try it at a land border?

Weekend in Laos, trip to Siam Reap, etc.

If they refuse to let you leave you haven't wasted any airfares.

 

Also,

If you have their Thai birth certificates (house book or ID cards), you could try and get them Thai weekend passes at the border, no passports required.

Edited January 12, 2019 by BritManToo

[blackcab]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Also,

If you have their Thai birth certificates (house book or ID cards), you could try and get them Thai weekend passes at the border, no passports required.

 

That's ok to visit Laos, for example, but the children will not be able to depart Laos unless it is back into Thailand.

 

This is because they will not have a Laos entry stamp or a visa in their British passport, which is the first thing Laos immigration will look for when they exit. That's a massive red flag for Laos immigration. (Remember that one child does not have a Thai passport at all).

[lopburi3]

Do remember that children that are born in Thailand will not have an entry stamp in a foreign passport obtained here so it is not at all uncommon for exits on blank foreign passports (with show of birth certificate).  But should have absent parents permission as suspect that will likely be checked.

[Clifford S]

On 1/12/2019 at 11:04 AM, blackcab said:

 

Just wait until she has moved abroad and established herself a bit.

 

 

As stated, from 15 onwards the mother does not need to be present at the application but she does need to sign a document granting consent.

 

 

There is every chance you would be refused.  The British passports would have no entry stamp in them, which is the first thing immigration look for. I rather believe you would be refused and immigration would start asking to see the mother's consent letter.

 

To avoid all of this in the future you need to get the kids out one more time. To Singapore is enough. When you arrive at Singapore, switch to their UK passports and use them to enter and later, exit Singapore. On arrival in Thailand use their British passports to enter. Immigration may ask to see their Thai passports, but explain you don't have them with you. (You could, for example, have left them in Singapore if the children were applying for a visa from an embassy or consulate in a third country. You might be going back to Singapore to collect their passports in a couple of days).

 

Once the children are in Thailand on their British passports they can leave on their British passports, and there is less chance of immigration asking for a parental authority letter.

 

The downside is that the children will need permission to stay (an extension of stay) and will be subject to 90 day reporting.

 

The good news is that as a Thai citizen they can get a 1 year extension of stay in their British passport (ask in the Visa forum for more details). Their 90 day reports will also be in sync with yours, which will make matters easier.

 

The extension of stay and 90 day reports are negatives, however the positive is your wife will not be able to hold you to ransom as easily in the future.

 

I know it is always said that Thai citizens should enter Thailand on a Thai passport. This reason is the exception to the rule, and you will have to decide if it is worth it in your particular circumstances.

 

Re To avoid all of this in the future you need to get the kids out one more time

 

You mean on the Thai passports, this is currently not possible but might be if things with the EX quieten down a bit !

But if so Yes I'll be returning on British passports and do the 90 days reports for all of us...

Definitely worth if for a bit of freedom.

 

 

 

 

[Clifford S]

On 1/12/2019 at 11:20 AM, BritManToo said:

Why not try it at a land border?

Weekend in Laos, trip to Siam Reap, etc.

If they refuse to let you leave you haven't wasted any airfares.

 

Also,

If you have their Thai birth certificates (house book or ID cards), you could try and get them Thai weekend passes at the border, no passports required.

Yup I think I'll give that a try, they don't have Id cards but I'm going to try to get them ASAP...

[Clifford S]

On 1/12/2019 at 11:48 AM, blackcab said:

 

That's ok to visit Laos, for example, but the children will not be able to depart Laos unless it is back into Thailand.

 

This is because they will not have a Laos entry stamp or a visa in their British passport, which is the first thing Laos immigration will look for when they exit. That's a massive red flag for Laos immigration. (Remember that one child does not have a Thai passport at all).

So it might be possible to do a Laos land crossing on some identification or another ....

and fly back into Thailand on the British passports ? 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Clifford S said:

So it might be possible to do a Laos land crossing on some identification or another ....

and fly back into Thailand on the British passports ? 

That's what I was thinking.

[Briggsy]

3 hours ago, Clifford S said:

So it might be possible to do a Laos land crossing on some identification or another ....

and fly back into Thailand on the British passports ? 

 

 

 

I do not understand this suggestion from @BritManToo

 

If they enter Laos on border passes, they have no Laos entry in any passport. Therefore they will NOT be allowed to fly out of Laos on any passport. They will need to exit Laos on the same border pass they came in on at the same land border crossing. So you are back to square one.

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Briggsy

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Therefore they will NOT be allowed to fly out of Laos on any passport.

You can't get on a plane back to Thailand with a border pass?

Then land in Thailand with your passport?

 

I'm thinking many small difficulties can be sorted out with a thousand baht note or two.

or explained away with a 'Oh yeah, I forgot we didn't use their passport on the way out'

Edited January 14, 2019 by BritManToo

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

You can't get on a plane back to Thailand with a border pass?

I think not. A border pass is specific to a land border crossing for a specific limited time (usually 1 - 4 days) and a specific limited area in the other country. It is not a carte blanche alternative to a passport.

[Briggsy]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm thinking many small difficulties can be sorted out with a thousand baht note or two.

If you think you can get through Wattay immigration without the correct documentation with a thousand baht bribe, then I must strongly disagree.

[blackcab]

5 hours ago, Clifford S said:

So it might be possible to do a Laos land crossing on some identification or another ....

and fly back into Thailand on the British passports ? 

 

If your children receive a temporary border pass, it is valid at the land border only.

 

By all means have a go at flying back into Thailand on their UK passports, but be prepared to be refused. You cannot swap passports at a land border, so swapping a passport with a temporary entry permit would most likely fail.

 

Let us know how you get on. 

[blackcab]

6 hours ago, Clifford S said:

Yup I think I'll give that a try, they don't have Id cards but I'm going to try to get them ASAP...

 

Thai children need to be over 7 years old to get a Thai ID card. It is almost guaranteed that their Thai parent will need to be present (unless the Thai parent has had custody removed by the Court).

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Preacher]

The ID-card is mandatory. No need for permission of parents as far as I am aware.

[lopburi3]

9 minutes ago, Preacher said:

The ID-card is mandatory. No need for permission of parents as far as I am aware.

Children do not do anything without a parents OK.  And this parent is not even the same name.

[baansgr]

Feel for you, as a Father of three by an abandoned Thai Mother...cant even get them registered in a school, hospital or blue book without a Thai....I dragged my kids up to City Hall in Pattaya and stated the Thai constitution of education befor a school would accept them....its a charade that someone can just walk away yet has by law all the rights...by the way, Ive been to the Provincial Court which didnt give two hoots....

[Clifford S]

5 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Children do not do anything without a parents OK.  And this parent is not even the same name.

Hi Lopburi

 

If This parent is me.... then my children do have my (Scotish) surname in their Passports and BIrth Certificates

And their christian names are British too.

 

Not sure if that helps at all !

 

Cheers

Cliffy

 

 

 

[Clifford S]

Many thanks for your thoughts Gents,

 

Well I think I'll just try in a weekend or 2, flights are cheap to KL, and just see what happens...

 

Curious though if I did a Land border into Laos for example, would Laos not then allow me to leave via a plane to anywhere on their British passports ? I wonder would Malaysia be the same ?

 

Cheers

Cliffy

[lopburi3]

Edit:  Seems I am wrong - sorry.  Not sure how birth certificate has your name if not married unless other official documents were filed to allow it (know that is possible but not mentioned so not sure it was).  Worth a try but suspect they will still want wife to at least sign off. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by lopburi3

[Clifford S]

11 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Edit:  Seems I am wrong - sorry.  Not sure how birth certificate has your name if not married unless other official documents were filed to allow it (know that is possible but not mentioned so not sure it was).  Worth a try but suspect they will still want wife to at least sign off. 

 

Just to clarify the kids have "British Names" such as John Smith & Jane Smith.  These are then spelt in Thai on the Thai birth certificates. The mother has had Maiden name entered and under the father section my names is written in Thai. I'm not aware of filing any specific documents to allow this but maybe the ex did...

 

[Clifford S]

16 hours ago, baansgr said:

Feel for you, as a Father of three by an abandoned Thai Mother...cant even get them registered in a school, hospital or blue book without a Thai....I dragged my kids up to City Hall in Pattaya and stated the Thai constitution of education befor a school would accept them....its a charade that someone can just walk away yet has by law all the rights...by the way, Ive been to the Provincial Court which didnt give two hoots....

Hi Baansgr, sorry to hear that, especially with 3 kids. So have you managed to get any Thai documents with the mother present ie Thai Id or Thai passport ? Does that mean you're all stuck in Thailand til the kids are 20 years old then ? By stuck I mean have not be able to go abroad ever ....