Are The Thais Going Green Yet ?

[ollyrosee]

is there any sign of greening going on anywhere ? recycling ?carbon trading ? serious replies only thanks . (hold the trollboy accusations)

[qwertz]

is there any sign of greening going on anywhere ? recycling ?carbon trading ? serious replies only thanks . (hold the trollboy accusations)

Absolutely none that I could detect. Cleanest place I saw was the new airport which was only a day old when I passed through.

[Martin]

In Udon Thani yesterday, I saw a brochure for a village called Ban Wang Nam Mok in Nong Khai province and a little to the West of Srichiangmai, welcoming ecotourists to a Homestay.

To quote: "...a small community that has discovered and clearly understood by itself the word "sufficiency". Some changes in nature surrounding the village within less than one generation brought in brainstorming to review the situation and find a solution to problems. As a result, the villagers of Wang Nam Mok discovered a way of living where an indicator of happiness was applied."

The village has 157 families and 648 villagers.

It is a nice, pretty, 44-page little booklet published by TAT, Region 3, (but why?, oh why?, don't TAT get a native-English-speaker to run their eye over drafts before publication---it takes work to get even a partial message out of the medium of Thai-thoughts-put-into-English-by-a-Thai-scholar). However, it is the greenest message that I have seen.

On recycling, we happened to have some visitors from Queensland with us, and the topic started to be discussed when we were 50 km South of Udon. The number of little businesses taking in 'scrap' cardboard, glass, plastics and metals from collectors that we noticed in the next 50 km was quite surprising.

Of course, re-use is always better than re-cyling. We noticd how the drivers of the sugarcane trucks were adept at making an extra warning light for their out-bulging load from a plastic bottle, a little red paint, and a sidelight bulb.

[ThaiGoon]

is there any sign of greening going on anywhere ? recycling ?carbon trading ? serious replies only thanks . (hold the trollboy accusations)

Apirak is planning on adding nine parks to Bangkok, but they will all be in the suburban areas as there's no more space left to build a park in central Bangkok. He will also add more green areas underneath the skytrain and expressway flyovers. There are also plans by the BMA to clean up canals in Bangkok to celebrate HMK's birthday or the queen's I don't remember exactly which. In about a year, Bangkok water district will also set up a hydroelectric plant. That's all I can think of right now. I read all these from Thai newspapers. You can probably google them to find out more.

I havean't read or seen anything regarding recycling and carbon trading yet. But there are plans to reduce pollution emissions in Eastern Seaboard Industrail complex by 25% in the next couple of years.

[Maizefarmer]

Other than some token gestures and efforts - no, very little evidance of "green policy in practise".

The problem in Thailand is the old one: legislating green policy in any sector of the economy (e.g. energy production, recycling ...) woul dbe as easy to do here as it would be elsewher in the world.

The problem would arise when it came to enforcement - like a lot of other legislation, it's enforcement would be selective at best.

Mf

[ThaiGoon]

Other than some token gestures and efforts - no, very little evidance of "green policy in practise".

The problem in Thailand is the old one: legislating green policy in any sector of the economy (e.g. energy production, recycling ...) woul dbe as easy to do here as it would be elsewher in the world.

The problem would arise when it came to enforcement - like a lot of other legislation, it's enforcement would be selective at best.

Mf

The fact that there are currently holdouts on the plan to expand Eastern Seaboard due to environmental regulations should give you some sense that it's not all doom and gloom.

[kmart]

Apirak is planning on adding nine parks to Bangkok, but they will all be in the suburban areas as there's no more space left to build a park in central Bangkok. He will also add more green areas underneath the skytrain and expressway flyovers. There are also plans by the BMA to clean up canals in Bangkok to celebrate HMK's birthday or the queen's I don't remember exactly which. In about a year, Bangkok water district will also set up a hydroelectric plant. That's all I can think of right now. I read all these from Thai newspapers. You can probably google them to find out more.

I havean't read or seen anything regarding recycling and carbon trading yet. But there are plans to reduce pollution emissions in Eastern Seaboard Industrail complex by 25% in the next couple of years.

Most of the emissions produced by heavy industry are of the "fugitive" kind, ie; released in very small, difficult to detect leaks that accumulate. This is a problem in any area or country of industry (oil refining-downstream-petrochemicals-chemicals, etc) and not just Thailand. The Maptaphut area has taken a bad rep for pollution, which is justified, but a lot of the time just because a a lot of the companies operating there are foreign-owned / partners. Most of these companies operate recycling of waste programmes and efficient / clean disposal practises.

The real polluters in Thailand get away with literally murder. A lot of these (sometimes unlicensed) factories operate around places like Samut Prakarn which is becoming an environmental disaster. Headline-grabbers like Greenpeace and local environmental activists always make a beeline for Maptaphut, because of the international companies based there. They might do well to focus on local and Chinese-operated companies, but then again, they probably don't want to be visited in the middle of the night by henchmen of "influential" persons.

[ThaiGoon]

Apirak is planning on adding nine parks to Bangkok, but they will all be in the suburban areas as there's no more space left to build a park in central Bangkok. He will also add more green areas underneath the skytrain and expressway flyovers. There are also plans by the BMA to clean up canals in Bangkok to celebrate HMK's birthday or the queen's I don't remember exactly which. In about a year, Bangkok water district will also set up a hydroelectric plant. That's all I can think of right now. I read all these from Thai newspapers. You can probably google them to find out more.

I havean't read or seen anything regarding recycling and carbon trading yet. But there are plans to reduce pollution emissions in Eastern Seaboard Industrail complex by 25% in the next couple of years.

Most of the emissions produced by heavy industry are of the "fugitive" kind, ie; released in very small, difficult to detect leaks that accumulate. This is a problem in any area or country of industry (oil refining-downstream-petrochemicals-chemicals, etc) and not just Thailand. The Maptaphut area has taken a bad rep for pollution, which is justified, but a lot of the time just because a a lot of the companies operating there are foreign-owned / partners. Most of these companies operate recycling of waste programmes and efficient / clean disposal practises.

The real polluters in Thailand get away with literally murder. A lot of these (sometimes unlicensed) factories operate around places like Samut Prakarn which is becoming an environmental disaster. Headline-grabbers like Greenpeace and local environmental activists always make a beeline for Maptaphut, because of the international companies based there. They might do well to focus on local and Chinese-operated companies, but then again, they probably don't want to be visited in the middle of the night by henchmen of "influential" persons.

That's true about some Thai owned factories. I've visited a couple of them and kind of agree with what you said. But to make light of the polution problems in Maptaphut area is just wrong. People are really suffering over there. From various reports, there's been increasing numbers of people in the areas suffering from various cancers and respiratory problems. It's only right for the government to tighten (or enforce) the regualtions to help the environment and the people. And it would be even better if they do the same all across the country.

[Martin]

"Greening" consists of some of the things that you feel you should do, when you have come round to thinking that the way things are being done (chasing frenetically to increase GNP and creating rampant consumerism, etc) is, simply, unsustainable.

The cause "Let us live sustainably" does not yet seem to have yet caught on in Thailand, despite it being the philosophic underpinning of the "Sufficiency" that does show some signs of catching on.

The first and fourth of the generations on Earth today have a big job to do in promulgating sustainability/sufficiency to the vast majority of the middle two generations.

Just before I retired, I did a spell of being a Supply Teacher for the poshest of the Bangkok International Schools (being as they were the only ones who would renumerate me at the level that I feel is appropriate!). I was heartened to see things like displays of pupils work on the subject of Sustainability, and the starting of school Gardening Clubs.

As a greatgrandfather and a member of the fourth generation, I remember when there was still a lot of "Sufficiency" being practised at the level of individual families.

In fact, it was crucial to us in Britain during World War II. Unfortunately, doing it was promulgated under the slogan "Dig for Victory" and we took that to mean "Victory over the Nazis and the Japs" and largely ceased once the war was over.

So I was a supporter of a lady teacher at one posh school who was starting a Gardening Club at a school where I had a part-time appointment. I voiced my support at a Staff Meeting and the Head of Science (who was the worst out of some two dozen I have served) tried to 'put me down' as wasting the meeting's time. So I stuck it into his pipe that I (though only an ex-electrical-engineer) can teach three-quarters of the topics of the Science syllabuses through The Garden, and relate all the others to The Garden at second remove.

There is hope for life on Earth somewhat as we humans know it, if my generation use their longevity to assist the children to educate their parents and their grandparents.

And I saw the first germinating of the seeds in Bangkok.

PS I managed that posting above without breaking the forum's rules. I feel I deserve a medal for restraint.

[chownah]

Lot's of recycling being done but it is because you can make money doing it...if that were not the case then it would stop....it is not being done out of any desire to improve the environment (genereally speaking).

[Sing_Sling]

Greening or ecologically sound industry? Understanding and respect for the environment? Very, very little. I don't believe society as a whole here has developed the ecologists way of thinking, and government policy doesn't support it at all, despite several King's projects going in this direction (like bio-fuel, of course)

As for carbon trading, a friend in the business has mentioned that there is a fortune to be made with it, just needs the right person to spend the time and energy.

[steveromagnino]

Greening or ecologically sound industry? Understanding and respect for the environment? Very, very little. I don't believe society as a whole here has developed the ecologists way of thinking, and government policy doesn't support it at all, despite several King's projects going in this direction (like bio-fuel, of course)

As for carbon trading, a friend in the business has mentioned that there is a fortune to be made with it, just needs the right person to spend the time and energy.

Carbon trading is currently a bit of a joke, sorry I consulted to Kiwi companies about this concept, and it is laughable. Also, since USA and Aussie don't even want to be part of it at the moment (carbon trading, Kyoto, etc etc), it is more about Europe feeling good about themselves. It may develop into something good however. Better to do somethign than nothing, even if the something has a very dodgy framework.

Chownah, the ONLY way recycling can occur on a large scale in most places is if there is money in it. The people who matter aren't you separating your paper and glass; it is when corporates start taking responsibility for their actions, and long term shareholder value is what drives most corporates. Whether it is negative PR (hasn't stopped people like UNion Carbide, big pharma, big oil, Microsoft, etc) or cashflow (carbon trading credits, costs, taxes, etc) that makes the difference will depend on the company involved.

FOr Thailand, there could be money to be made in the bulls&*t method of planting a few trees, also AFAIK SCCC is already involved in trading credits as they have incinerators and ways to imbed carbon into some of their products, rather than releasing them into the envirnoment.

If we look at recycling, Thailand already has a private sector method of recycling many many things that would end up in a dump in the west. Food gets almost fully consumed. Metal things get stripped down and recycled. Paper also. If you let the public sector do any of these, expect disaster. However, due to landscape, tips are not so popular and for some reason produce less methane than elsewhere apparently; most trash is incenerated in a power generation method of sorts; some upgrades going on there.

Rampant use of LPG/CNG is WAY better for the environment, some steps being taken there. Smaller cars and 4 stroke motorcycles than USA style 8 litre SUVs which are a terrible waster of fossil fuels. Less beef and milk consumption which probably significnatly reduces methane output, being that cow gas is a major source of that.

Absolute abuse here of the marine environment, disregard in many cases for waste water and pollutants; there are various small steps taken, but nowhere near enough. We are still far better than say USA in pollution and emissions on many measures despite USA not making much these days, but is that the right measure? USA is one of the less responsible OECD global citizens when it comes to emissions and pollution; while other countries are reducing engine size, they come out with the Hummer for instance.

As far as I am concerned we (Thailand) should be following in the steps of NZ, Scandanavia and some others; however that will happen when we can ice skate in Lumpini, and right after Khun Moodaeng takes flight. Tourism is the only potential driver, and it isn't tourism that is creating most of the pollution.

Edited February 23, 2007 by steveromagnino