10 Year U.K. Visitor Visa

[Jumbo1968]

A colleagues Thai GF has received a 10 Year U.K. Visitor Visa, it’s appears to a grey area on how many times she can enter the U.K. The maximum stay is 6 months, could she exit the U.K. after staying for 6 months and return a few weeks later for another 6 months ?

 

 

[theoldgit]

She could be refused entry at the UK Border if the Border Force Officer suspects she is using a visit visa, albeit one that's valid for ten years, to live in UK, even regular stays of six months would ring alarm bells if they were too frequent, the guidance to Officers is to check for this abuse of visas.

Ten year visit visas are issued to those who can demonstrate a genuine need to visit the UK on a regular basis, not those who wish to spend more in the UK than in thier home country. 

 

You should check the applicant’s travel history, including how long they are spending in the UK and how frequently they are returning. You must assess if they are, in effect, making the UK their main home. You should look at: • the purpose of the visit and intended length of stay stated • the number of visits made over the past 12 months, including the length of stay on each occasion, the time elapsed since the last visit, and if this amounts to the individual spending more time in the UK than in their home country • the purpose of return trips to the visitor’s home country and if this is used only to seek re-entry to the UK • the links they have with their home country - consider especially any long term commitments and where the applicant is registered for tax purposes • evidence the UK is their main place of residence, for example: o if they have registered with a general practitioner (GP) o if they send their children to UK schools • the history of previous applications, for example if the visitor has previously been refused under the family rules and subsequently wants to enter as a visitor you must assess if they are using the visitor route to avoid the rules in place for family migrants joining British or settled persons in the UK There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. However, if it is clear from an individual’s travel history that they are making the UK their home you should refuse their application.

 

Read page 17 - Visit-guidance

[7by7]

The actual rule is that a visitor will not live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits, or make the UK their main home.

 

From the official guidance:

Quote

Frequent or successive visits: how to assess if an applicant is making the UK their main home or place of work 
 
See: paragraph V 4.2(b) of appendix V: visitor rules. 
 
You should check the applicant’s travel history, including how long they are spending in the UK and how frequently they are returning. You must assess if they are, in effect, making the UK their main home. 
 
 You should look at: 
 
• the purpose of the visit and intended length of stay stated • the number of visits made over the past 12 months, including the length of stay on each occasion, the time elapsed since the last visit, and if this amounts to the individual spending more time in the UK than in their home country

• the purpose of return trips to the visitor’s home country and if this is used only to seek re-entry to the UK

• the links they have with their home country - consider especially any long term commitments and where the applicant is registered for tax purposes

• evidence the UK is their main place of residence, for example: o if they have registered with a general practitioner (GP) o if they send their children to UK schools

• the history of previous applications, for example if the visitor has previously been refused under the family rules and subsequently wants to enter as a visitor you must assess if they are using the visitor route to avoid the rules in place for family migrants joining British or settled persons in the UK 
 
There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. However, if it is clear from an individual’s travel history that they are making the UK their home you should refuse their application.  

 

That is the guidance for ECOs, the decision makers for visa applications. Border Force officers at UK ports of entry have similar guidance referring them to the rules.

 

Addendum:

Theoldgit types faster than me!

Edited January 22, 2019 by 7by7
Addendum

[Jumbo1968]

They have a 8 year old son who is now living with the father in the U.K., his Mother will be coming to visit him so I suppose that could be a good enough reason for her regular visits ?

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Jumbo1968 said:

They have a 8 year old son who is now living with the father in the U.K., his Mother will be coming to visit him so I suppose that could be a good enough reason for her regular visits ?

 Not at all; in fact it would be a good reason for Border Force to believe she is attempting to use visits to by pass the settlement rules and so refuse her entry!

 

 

 

[7by7]

Re my answer above; I'm assuming that you mean frequent and regular visits as per your OP

 

20 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

could she exit the U.K. after staying for 6 months and return a few weeks later for another 6 months ?

 

However, if you mean, for example, 6 months in the UK, 6 months in Thailand, 6 months in UK etc., then this should not be a problem.

 

In order to obtain a 10 year visit visa, applicants usually have to show that they have a reason for visiting the UK on a regular basis over that period; what did she say about this in her application?

 

If her desire is to actually live in the UK with her son then she needs a parent of child settlement visa. See Family visas: apply, extend or switch; apply as a parent. You may also find this recent topic useful: Parent of A British Child Visa.

 

Note: she cannot switch to that visa while in the UK as a visitor; she has to apply for it in her country of residence; Thailand.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by 7by7
Typo

[Jumbo1968]

39 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Re my answer above; I'm assuming that you mean frequent and regular visits as per your OP

 

 

However, if you mean, for example, 6 months in the UK, 6 months in Thailand, 6 months in UK etc., then this should not be a problem.

 

In order to obtain a 10 year visit visa, applicants usually have to show that they have a reason for visiting the UK on a regular basis over that period; what did she say about this in her application?

 

If her desire is to actually live in the UK with her son then she needs a parent of child settlement visa. See Family visas: apply, extend or switch; apply as a parent. You may also find this recent topic useful: Parent of A British Child Visa.

 

Note: she cannot switch to that visa while in the UK as a visitor; she has to apply for it in her country of residence; Thailand.

 

 

TBH I told them all the options but they decided the 10 year visa was their best option. I did tell him she could get pulled and be told to get a proper visa too visit her son in the U.K. but it fell on deaf ears.

Its only now he is starting think she might get pulled by Immigration but he doesn’t seem to be overly concerned.

 

 

[7by7]

1 minute ago, Jumbo1968 said:

TBH I told them all the options but they decided the 10 year visa was their best option. I did tell him she could get pulled and be told to get a proper visa too visit her son in the U.K. but it fell on deaf ears.

 

Although "maximum of 6 months out of any 12"  for UK visitors is not a rule; it is used as a guide when assessing whether or not a person is trying to use a long term visit visa to live in the UK.

 

9 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Its only now he is starting think she might get pulled by Immigration but he doesn’t seem to be overly concerned

If upon arriving at a UK port of entry UK Border Force officers have reason to believe that she is using frequent and successive visits to live in the UK then she will be questioned and if she cannot satisfy them that she is a genuine visitor she will be put on the next plane back to Thailand. I believe that they could also cancel her visa.

 

Of course, there is absolutely no reason why she cannot use a visit visa to visit her son in the UK; provided she abides by the rules; including V4.2(b)

Quote

(b) will not live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits, or make the UK their main home.

 

[Jumbo1968]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Although "maximum of 6 months out of any 12"  for UK visitors is not a rule; it is used as a guide when assessing whether or not a person is trying to use a long term visit visa to live in the UK.

 

If upon arriving at a UK port of entry UK Border Force officers have reason to believe that she is using frequent and successive visits to live in the UK then she will be questioned and if she cannot satisfy them that she is a genuine visitor she will be put on the next plane back to Thailand. I believe that they could also cancel her visa.

 

Of course, there is absolutely no reason why she cannot use a visit visa to visit her son in the UK; provided she abides by the rules; including V4.2(b)

 

Certainly it would worrying if they put her back on a plane and cancelled her visa, I gave up trying to advise him, as they say up to him. I will keep you informed of any developments in the future.

[7by7]

Maybe one last try to convince him by showing him the rules and guidance?

 

As said, there is no reason why she cannot use her visa to visit her son; provided she sticks to the rules.

 

A routine of 6 months in, 6 months out, 6 months in; fine.

 

But a routine of 6 months in, couple of weeks out, 6 months in; storing up problems and while she may get away with it for a while, she will eventually be caught.

[Jumbo1968]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

Maybe one last try to convince him by showing him the rules and guidance?

 

As said, there is no reason why she cannot use her visa to visit her son; provided she sticks to the rules.

 

A routine of 6 months in, 6 months out, 6 months in; fine.

 

But a routine of 6 months in, couple of weeks out, 6 months in; storing up problems and while she may get away with it for a while, she will eventually be caught.

I have already sent all the links etc. the unfortunate thing is I don’t think his Thai partner is aware of the rules and regs.

[7by7]

20 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I have already sent all the links etc. the unfortunate thing is I don’t think his Thai partner is aware of the rules and regs.

 Then he must make her aware of them!

 

BTW, you say 'partner.' Are they still together, albeit living apart?

 

If so, then should she want to actually live in the UK with her son and her partner then she is not eligible to apply for settlement as a parent; she will have to apply as his partner. From my earlier link

Quote

You need to have sole or shared parental responsibility for your child.

If you share parental responsibility, the child’s other parent must:

• not be your partner

 

The more details you give, the more I think that they took this route in an attempt to by pass the settlement rules because they failed to satisfy one or more of the requirements; probably the financial one.

[Jumbo1968]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Then he must make her aware of them!

 

BTW, you say 'partner.' Are they still together, albeit living apart?

 

If so, then should she want to actually live in the UK with her son and her partner then she is not eligible to apply for settlement as a parent; she will have to apply as his partner. From my earlier link

 

The more details you give, the more I think that they took this route in an attempt to by pass the settlement rules because they failed to satisfy one or more of the requirements; probably the financial one.

They are still together, they have had the village blessing but I think they are going to make it official on his next visit too Thailand.

The 10 year Visa was the ‘ easy’ and cheapest option for him in his opinion not realising the consequences.

In the end we fell out about it, basically said  it was none of my business, he kept asking me questions I told him straight and he didn’t like the answers.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Jumbo1968 said:

They are still together, they have had the village blessing but I think they are going to make it official on his next visit too Thailand.

The 10 year Visa was the ‘ easy’ and cheapest option for him in his opinion not realising the consequences

What did she say about their relationship in her visa application, I wonder.

 

To be honest: telling the truth, that they've had a ceremonial wedding, intend to have a legal wedding and have a son together, would make any ECO look with suspicion on a standard, 6 months visit visa application for her to visit her partner and son who live in the UK; let alone a 10 year one!

 

If she did tell the truth about the relationship then she must have had a very convincing reason to make the ECO accept that she did not want to live in the UK with her partner and son!

 

If she lied about the relationship in her application and the Home Office find out about it, she could be barred from visiting the UK for up to 10 years.

 

Though it would not stop her from entering with a settlement visa as her husband's spouse.

 

1 hour ago, Jumbo1968 said:

In the end we fell out about it, basically said  it was none of my business, he kept asking me questions I told him straight and he didn’t like the answers.

I think you're best out of it; some people simply can't be helped because they just wont listen to what they don't want to hear.

 

I wonder if some unscrupulous agent got their claws into this couple and convinced them this was the most easy visa to get.

[virtualm]

It's multi entry - maximum 6 months in a 1 year period, overstay and prepared to be banned....simple... It's a tourist visa, there's the clue!

[theoldgit]

3 hours ago, virtualm said:

It's multi entry - maximum 6 months in a 1 year period, overstay and prepared to be banned....simple... It's a tourist visa, there's the clue!

I'm sorry but that's not correct, there is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’, read page 17 of the guidlines to UKVI/UKBA Visit-guidance

 

Without wishing to be pedantic the visa is a Standard Visit Visa not a Tourist Visa.

[LucysDad]

On 1/23/2019 at 8:51 PM, 7by7 said:

What did she say about their relationship in her visa application, I wonder.

 

To be honest: telling the truth, that they've had a ceremonial wedding, intend to have a legal wedding and have a son together, would make any ECO look with suspicion on a standard, 6 months visit visa application for her to visit her partner and son who live in the UK; let alone a 10 year one!

 

If she did tell the truth about the relationship then she must have had a very convincing reason to make the ECO accept that she did not want to live in the UK with her partner and son!

 

If she lied about the relationship in her application and the Home Office find out about it, she could be barred from visiting the UK for up to 10 years.

 

Though it would not stop her from entering with a settlement visa as her husband's spouse.

 

I think you're best out of it; some people simply can't be helped because they just wont listen to what they don't want to hear.

 

I wonder if some unscrupulous agent got their claws into this couple and convinced them this was the most easy visa to get.

 

 

I think you are making a few assumptions to support your own conclusions.

 

Whilst the "unscrupulous agent" is certainly a possibility, the facts are that a 10 year visa has been granted.. ergo, an ECO must have been satisfied with the genuineness of the relationship AND reason to visit; evidence of financial adequacy must have been supplied - and the reasons to return must have been compelling (none supplied in the OP).

 

As you say, if she plays by the rules she will not have any problems.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

I think you are making a few assumptions to support your own conclusions.

 

Whilst the "unscrupulous agent" is certainly a possibility, the facts are that a 10 year visa has been granted.. ergo, an ECO must have been satisfied with the genuineness of the relationship AND reason to visit; evidence of financial adequacy must have been supplied - and the reasons to return must have been compelling (none supplied in the OP).

 

As you say, if she plays by the rules she will not have any problems.

All that you say is true; but …….

I have known of plenty of couples where the British partner has returned to the UK to take up employment and has to be in that employment for at least 6 months to satisfy the financial requirement and the Thai partner has applied for and been granted a 6 month visit visa to be with their partner during this time.

 

But this lady did not do that; she applied for and was granted a 10 year visit visa. Assuming she told the truth in her application, then to be granted that she must have been able to convince the ECO that she did not want to live with her partner and their son in the UK, but only visit them regularly without breaking para V4.2(b) of the immigration rules

Quote

V 4.2 The applicant must satisfy the decision maker that they are a genuine visitor. This means that the applicant:

 

(b) will not live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits, or make the UK their main home;

 

If this is the case, then I would dearly love to know what arguments she used!

 

But as the question asked on her behalf in the OP was

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 2:36 PM, Jumbo1968 said:

could she exit the U.K. after staying for 6 months and return a few weeks later for another 6 months ?

I suspect that, whatever she said in her application, her intention has from the very beginning been to use this 10 year visa in an attempt to by-pass the settlement rules and live in the UK with her partner and their son.

[Jumbo1968]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

All that you say is true; but …….

I have known of plenty of couples where the British partner has returned to the UK to take up employment and has to be in that employment for at least 6 months to satisfy the financial requirement and the Thai partner has applied for and been granted a 6 month visit visa to be with their partner during this time.

 

But this lady did not do that; she applied for and was granted a 10 year visit visa. Assuming she told the truth in her application, then to be granted that she must have been able to convince the ECO that she did not want to live with her partner and their son in the UK, but only visit them regularly without breaking para V4.2(b) of the immigration rules

 

If this is the case, then I would dearly love to know what arguments she used!

 

But as the question asked on her behalf in the OP was

I suspect that, whatever she said in her application, her intention has from the very beginning been to use this 10 year visa in an attempt to by-pass the settlement rules and live in the UK with her partner and their son.

They had already looked at the Settlement Visa among others, she completed the Visa Application no Agents involved. 

The 10 year Visa to them was the ‘easiest’ route to take, she is currently in the U.K. till May, been there since December I think she has the intention of returning later in the year so only time will tell. I have already told him what could happen and his attitude is wait and see.

[LucysDad]

7 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

They had already looked at the Settlement Visa among others, she completed the Visa Application no Agents involved. 

The 10 year Visa to them was the ‘easiest’ route to take, she is currently in the U.K. till May, been there since December I think she has the intention of returning later in the year so only time will tell. I have already told him what could happen and his attitude is wait and see.

 

 

She will not have a problem as long as she does not try and take the p!ss out of the system.

 

Whilst the 6 months in/6 months out is not a strict rule it is a good base point to work on - going too much beyond that will likely result in challenges on later entry and possible refusal. If she gives an IO reason to believe that she is using a standard to visa to mainly lived in Thailand the visa could be revoked. ....... not scaremongering, just suggesting that she understands and plays by the rules - in reality, that means that your friend understands and applies the rules as I doubt that his partner is choosing and paying her own fares.

[virtualm]

On 1/27/2019 at 1:58 AM, theoldgit said:

I'm sorry but that's not correct, there is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’, read page 17 of the guidlines to UKVI/UKBA Visit-guidance

 

Without wishing to be pedantic the visa is a Standard Visit Visa not a Tourist Visa.

I hear what you're saying, and you're clearly more of an expert at this than I am (I'm learning lots...) but the statement in the visit pack is still woolley. So are you saying if somebody has a 2 year, 5 year or 10 year visit visa then they can stay longer than the 180 days in 1 year? That is not what I read. And I've really read lots in detail. This was also one of the reasons I didnt bother with a 2 year visit visa for my gf as thought might as well just apply for 6 months as it's cheaper.  We really need a FAQ section on this forum, all good info on here very helpful.

[BobbyL]

Slightly off topic but rather than starting a new thread I thought easier to ask here.

 

Myself and my wife were planning on applying for one of these for her. We plan to go there on holiday every year so it would make sense and save the hassle of applying for a new visa each time.

 

She did an MA in England (2015 - 2017) and we lived there together for 2 years before getting married there and then moving back to Bangkok. She also has a 10 year US tourist visa and a long list of Schengen visas (4 in total) plus regular travel around Asia (Korea, Japan, Singapore in the last year). 

 

My only concern was it said once the fee (around 750GBP) is paid there is no guarantee of obviously receiving the full 10 year duration. 

 

Does anyone on here with far more knowledge reckon her history of living in England, being married in England and regular trips etc make it an easy process for her to obtain the 10 year visa? 

 

Thanks. 

[LucysDad]

1 minute ago, BobbyL said:

Slightly off topic but rather than starting a new thread I thought easier to ask here.

 

Myself and my wife were planning on applying for one of these for her. We plan to go there on holiday every year so it would make sense and save the hassle of applying for a new visa each time.

 

She did an MA in England (2015 - 2017) and we lived there together for 2 years before getting married there and then moving back to Bangkok. She also has a 10 year US tourist visa and a long list of Schengen visas (4 in total) plus regular travel around Asia (Korea, Japan, Singapore in the last year). 

 

My only concern was it said once the fee (around 750GBP) is paid there is no guarantee of obviously receiving the full 10 year duration. 

 

Does anyone on here with far more knowledge reckon her history of living in England, being married in England and regular trips etc make it an easy process for her to obtain the 10 year visa? 

 

Thanks. 

 

 

If she meets the criteria (which I am sure she does) and she/you can justify in a covering letter (which I am sure you can) there will be no reason for an ECO to do anything than approve the application. 

 

Not sure where you are getting your exchange rates from but the application fee from Thailand is US$1,066 which equates to GBP 820 - I would be happy if your figure was correct as I am also looking at a 10 year visa.

[BobbyL]

7 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

If she meets the criteria (which I am sure she does) and she/you can justify in a covering letter (which I am sure you can) there will be no reason for an ECO to do anything than approve the application. 

 

Not sure where you are getting your exchange rates from but the application fee from Thailand is US$1,066 which equates to GBP 820 - I would be happy if your figure was correct as I am also looking at a 10 year visa.

Thanks. 

 

My figures must be wrong from when I last checked their website ????

[LucysDad]

4 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

Thanks. 

 

My figures must be wrong from when I last checked their website ????

Standard Visitor visa - for UK, Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey

Visa types	Visa application fee (USD)	Visa application guide
Short-term (up to 6 months, single or multiple entry)	124	Visa application guide
Longer-term (valid for up to 2 years)	467	Visa application guide
Longer-term (valid for up to 5 years)	849	Visa application guide
Longer-term (valid for up to 10 years)	1066	Visa application guide
Visiting academic - more than 6 months but less than 12 months	248	Visa application guide
Marriage visitor visa	124	Visa application guide
Permitted paid engagement visa	124	Visa application guide
Private medical treatment - up to 11 months	248	Visa application guide
Visit the UK in a Chinese tour group (UK only)	124	Visa application g

 

 

https://visa-fees.homeoffice.gov.uk/y/thailand/usd/visit/all

[rasg]

8 hours ago, BobbyL said:

Does anyone on here with far more knowledge reckon her history of living in England, being married in England and regular trips etc make it an easy process for her to obtain the 10 year visa? 

The process will be easier as she already has all of information that she will have provided before but she will still have to go through the visa application process in the same way. And she will have to abide by the terms of the visit visa.

[BobbyL]

14 hours ago, rasg said:

The process will be easier as she already has all of information that she will have provided before but she will still have to go through the visa application process in the same way. And she will have to abide by the terms of the visit visa.

Yeah fully understood. Thanks. 

[7by7]

On 1/29/2019 at 1:26 AM, BobbyL said:

My only concern was it said once the fee (around 750GBP)

 

On 1/29/2019 at 1:33 AM, LucysDad said:

Not sure where you are getting your exchange rates from but the application fee from Thailand is US$1,066 which equates to GBP 820

 The actual fee set by Parliament is currently £798 (see here); this will almost certainly be increased in April.

 

However, UKVI decided several years ago to stop charging fees in most countries in local currency and charge in USD instead; using an exchange rate very favourable to themselves!

 

When challenged on why they chose USD rather than Sterling, their reply was meaningless waffle, including an attempt to blame their payment processor, WorldPay. This is nonsense, WorldPay will process in most currencies, and definitely in Sterling: as confirmed by WorldPay themselves.

 

As the real fee is set in Sterling, the fee charged will vary according to exchange rate fluctuations. Using this Home Office tool, the current, as at 8th Feb, fee for a 10 year visit visa is $1092; which using today's exchange rate of $1 = £0.77 is £842.09, that's 5.5% more than the fee set by Parliament!