BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, pookiki said:

 

 

There was never an empirical evidence that Aussies, Brits, Yanks, or Danes were abusing the embassy letter system.  Or that other embassies do a better job that the ones who decided to cancel the issuance of the letters.  As things stand now, there is not a level playing field for expats doing their extension of stay.  And I will never understand why the four embassies caved on the issue of the letters/affidavits.  Gutless diplomacy in my view.

The Australian system of statutory declarations meant if one overstated their income they were committing a criminal offence under Australian law. That was different to the US system, where expats simply had to go to the embassy and swear verbally to having the required income. I know several Americans whose pension income was never within a bull's roar of 65K. I assume when Thai Immigration started asking questions about income verification, the house of cards collapsed.

Yes, it was gutless on the part of the Australian Consulate. Not so from the American viewpoint.

[Psimbo]

3 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

This is obvious to me that the banks are in collusion with this as it seems to me the  only reason, if not What is the reason ??

Ahhh- the first tinfoil hat appears. Your signature block says it all.

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, Roy Baht said:

It's not a level playing field. But you have a choice: live with it or leave.

The usual last resort comment of one who has lost the argument- 'take it or leave it'.

This is a discussion forum on the implications and validity of the rules.

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, dcnx said:

You’ve been in Thailand too long. Thats such a small amount.

What do they pay at the banks in your country minus the currency to Thai baht value?

[wgdanson]

47 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

i have asked this before, so if you have a work permit, say earning 35,000 baht, none of this applies, but if you are a retired person, you have to show  65,000 income monthly, or 800,000  for 6 months, now, utter stupidity.

Can a European foreigner get a Work Permit only earning 35k?

[overherebc]

26 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

My 90 day report would b Aug 2019  my extension of stay is Jul 19.   That doesn't make any sense.    If you don't know don't say anything stupid.

Decided to point out to you that the squiggly things at the end of each sentence means each sentence is a 'question.'

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, garyk said:

IF you are going to do that just get the 20 year Elite. Done and done.

Personally if I really wanted to stay here long term, I would jump on the 20 year Elite. IMO if you have the funds and are old, you should jump on that before the amount is increased. 

one I spend a mil.. and have a annual fee (??) 

 

The other I just show money.. which I would have in Thailand anyway... 

 

 

[Chongalulu]

51 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

If you got to figure out the best investment plan for a mere ‘$25,000 investment’ that buy you peace of mind, you might not qualify to retire in Thailand ....

It’s an investment strategy that applies to all amounts. It’s how you get to the investment position I’m now in. 

[seancbk]

47 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

i have asked this before, so if you have a work permit, say earning 35,000 baht, none of this applies, but if you are a retired person, you have to show  65,000 income monthly, or 800,000  for 6 months, now, utter stupidity.

 

The only people allowed to have a work permit and only earn 35,000 are teachers, and teachers on that sort of income are not here long term, a year or two at most (Gap year students and people wanting to do a year or so in Thailand).  

 

[onera1961]

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

So is 800K. My bank in Australia is paying 2.7%, don't think US or UK banks pay any more.

In most countries's interest rate is related to US Federal Reserve rate. The rule of the thumb is as Fed rate goes up, dollar becomes stronger and interest rate goes up. In the US, you can get 2.25% as of now. 

[zydeco]

4 hours ago, worgeordie said:

the only

good thing about all these changes,stopping embassy letters,requirement

to keep money in bank permanently,almost, is that there are going to be fewer

people in front of you,when next time you go and do your extension !.

regards Worgeordie

Could easily be the numbers will be larger as Westerners are replaced by Chinese and Indians. 

[lelapin]

If I put 800,000 baht in a Bangkok Bank

1 year fixed term savings account am I OK?

[Chongalulu]

51 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

Stop calling yourself "investment savvy" when you're just too tight to pay the (modest) cost of doing business here. You don't like the rules they play by here? Fine, go play somewhere else.

Right there is where you lost the argument ('take it or leave it'). 

When the next change comes that does effect you comes ,trust you take your own advice. 

[seancbk]

44 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

So no one really knows what the procedure will be to show that you have the money in the bank for 3 months after your extension of stay or 400,000 after the three months are up until 2 months prior to the next extension is due.   As always no rules just let each immigration office do what they want to do instead of putting out instruction on how it will be done.   The Big Joke has really no idea what is going on in immigration along with all of his IO

 

The procedure should be easy.  Go to immigration for your first 90 day report and show them your bank book and/or a bank statement from the account dated that same day.

 

[SEtonal]

11 hours ago, jrward42 said:

I can't be bothered to read 30 pages so apologies if this has been mentioned before....

 

I did my marriage extension 2 weeks ago - bank statements, bank letter, photos, etc, and it all went ok and in 2 weeks I go back to get the stamp. They told me I needed to bring a bank book and get a photo copy showing I had 400k still in the bank when I go back. Which was weird and a first as normally when you go back you just need the passport. 

 

Hopefully this is all a coincidence and the officer was confused by all the above retirement stuff. He was new. There was nothing strange about my banking either, I had had the 400k in the account for the whole previous year. I am also in my 40s so he can't think I am going for retirement.

 

I hope this is a coincidence and they aren't going to do this for marriage extensions too but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

 

I'm not married, so sorry I don't remember the details, but a few days ago someone reported that they too had to show proof that 400k was still in their bank account when they went back a month later to finalize the marriage extension process.  

It may be a coincidence that the two of you are using the same Immigration Office that is making up its own rules or it may be an official mandate that the has not yet been publicly announced.

 

Other recent visa changes:  As of February 1, 2019 Vientiane Embassy/Consulate will only see visa applicants who made an appointment online -- NO walk-ins.   Since the beginning of the year, the approval process for the Thailand Elite Visa, which used to take one to two weeks, has now been extended up to three months.

[wgdanson]

42 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

Work permit holders fulfill certain needs of the labour industry here even though monetary amount is not high. . Thus it can be attributed as a necessary tool in the progress plan of the country. Retirees or marriage partners on the other hand, contribute nothing to the country other than economic factors thus the contributing factor( amount )  is under scrutiny. Nothing more nothing less. 

So we have Mr Mrecman on his 35k salary and me importing, and spending 65k a month. Who is contributing more to the Thai economy?

[pookiki]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The Australian system of statutory declarations meant if one overstated their income they were committing a criminal offence under Australian law. That was different to the US system, where expats simply had to go to the embassy and swear verbally to having the required income. I know several Americans whose pension income was never within a bull's roar of 65K. I assume when Thai Immigration started asking questions about income verification, the house of cards collapsed.

Yes, it was gutless on the part of the Australian Consulate. Not so from the American viewpoint.

Americans who perjured themselves on a sworn affidavit were also committing a criminal offense.  There will always be some bad apples in a group.  But the number of bad apples pales to the agent system and the ways to circumvent Thai immigration's own policies.  In addition, I can't believe that the embassies that are still issuing letters of income verification have a better system in place than the embassies who screwed their own constituents.

 

The US Embassy took the easy way out and even explained the situation from the standpoint of issuing such a large volume of affidavits.  They threw the baby out with the bathwater and did nothing to try to find a solution for US expats. They were all gutless!

[RichardColeman]

I'd say 80% of the expats I know cannot satisfy this requirement. The impact of that 80% leaving will be devastating to the local community - along with all their wifes and children that would now be potless.

[onera1961]

4 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Could easily be the numbers will be larger as Westerners are replaced by Chinese and Indians. 

I don't see that happening. while the number of high net worth Chinese and Indians are large, why they would come to Thailand to retire? India is already cheap and upper middle class are buying European and USA investment visas and spend their time between Europe/USA/India. The rest are happy to be tourists in Thailand. And some desperate poor resort to illegal means to work and live in Thailand. 

 

[Roy Baht]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The Australian system of statutory declarations meant if one overstated their income they were committing a criminal offence under Australian law. That was different to the US system, where expats simply had to go to the embassy and swear verbally to having the required income. I know several Americans whose pension income was never within a bull's roar of 65K. I assume when Thai Immigration started asking questions about income verification, the house of cards collapsed.

Yes, it was gutless on the part of the Australian Consulate. Not so from the American viewpoint.

Well, technically if you have lied on your sworn affidavit at the US Embassy you have committed perjury. I just don't see it ever being prosecuted. But I think it's best for the people who do have enough income that others who don't aren't allowed to lie about it. I think the US was right to abolish the "income letter". It's just the suddenness of all these changes that make it difficult for everybody (even the law-abiding) to swiftly comply.

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

In most countries's interest rate is related to US Federal Reserve rate. The rule of the thumb is as Fed rate goes up, dollar becomes stronger and interest rate goes up. In the US, you can get 2.25% as of now. 

How much Thai baht appreciation? If the dollar has gone down a percent that would be an actual interest rate of 1.25%?  For the pound what would you need to break even in baht?

[zydeco]

4 hours ago, Ctkong said:

They want spending retirees putting capital into their economy

Then why are they now tying up 400K that could be spent into a locked bank account?

[wgdanson]

43 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Not really, if you work you are insured. If retired, you are probably older and have a bigger chance you need money to pay hospital bills. 

And if I have been a good boy and taken out Health Insurance I still need to keep money in the bank? And what health costs will 800k cover these days of rip-off hospitals?

 

And a retired older person probably puts more into the Thai economy simply by drinking more beer!  LOL

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Then why are they now tying up 400K that could be spent into a locked bank account?

Lack of thinking out the decision would be my guess. Election year stuff.  Wait till we find out what office BJ is running for. 

[skatewash]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

True enough. However, getting the monthly deposit figure right with exchange fluctuations is going to be a PITA. I don't know if being under 65K for just one month would affect the extension application; however, I prefer not to find out the hard way.

You raise a valid concern.  However, consider this.  Under the lump-sum method, you have to have 800,000 baht in Thailand.  Under the monthly deposit method, you only have to have 65,000 X 12 = 780,000.  A good use for that 20,000 you are "saving" is to bulk up your monthly deposits by a suitable amount so that you can weather some exchange rate fluctuation.  Also, if the combo method remains viable (which is not certain to me) then you could compensate for any small shortfall with a balance in your account under that method.

[notamember]

38 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

My 90 day report would b Aug 2019  my extension of stay is Jul 19.   That doesn't make any sense.    If you don't know don't say anything stupid.

90 day reports can be done 15 days before due date or seven days late

it would only take one or maybe two 90 day reports to time shift it onto the same date

sensible enough for you ?

[onera1961]

9 minutes ago, seancbk said:

The procedure should be easy.  Go to immigration for your first 90 day report and show them your bank book and/or a bank statement from the account dated that same day.

90-day can be done online or by mail. Now all 800K guys will be forced to go to immigration, increasing IOs work load to check bank books. I don't think so. 

[mokwit]

12 hours ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

Over the last few years MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home) has steadily whittled down the benefits that come with their visa and the most recent change, which likely makes it pretty much unobtainable for most folks, is that at least 75 percent of the monthly income must be from a permanent pension, i.e. not from things that are subject to fluctuation such as dividends, interest, etc. and even with a pension, one must make a largish (about USD 37,000) fixed deposit.

 

I also considered Indonesia, but one must hire a maid which, on the face of it seems simple, is a killer once one looks into the paperwork requirements and social security contributions. Of course, as I dug, I found that if one has a retirement visa, one is pretty much stuck with paying income tax

Or in other words, if people were not grandfathered in both M and I changed the deal on people who could have made a major irreversible decision to retire there.

[Sheryl]

15 hours ago, wgdanson said:

So why not get your pension lump sum paid into a UK or foreign bank. Then do a Transferwise every month, making sure it is say Bht 5oo Bht over 65k. into a Bkk Bank account which will say FFT.  No lump sum or 90 day proof required. 

Because a Bkk Bank TW deposit will nto always show FTT. See other threads that have gone through this in detail. TW uses any of 3 banks for itst ransfers and it will show as FTT only if they used the same bank as your account.  At present they use Bkk Bank about 80-90% of the time (this could change) but not always.  Good chance that at least 1 out of 12 transfers will show as domestic, maybe more.

 

Monthly Swift transfers will show as FTT but you'll spend a fair amount on transfer fees.

 

[55Jay]

Just now, pookiki said:

Americans who perjured themselves on a sworn affidavit were also committing a criminal offense.  There will always be some bad apples in a group.  But the number of bad apples pales to the agent system and the ways to circumvent Thai immigration's own policies.  In addition, I can't believe that the embassies that are still issuing letters of income verification have a better system in place than the embassies who screwed their own constituents.

 

The US Embassy took the easy way out and even explained the situation from the standpoint of issuing such a large volume of affidavits.  They threw the baby out with the bathwater and did nothing to try to find a solution for US expats. They were all gutless!

Last paragraph ~ I wasn't in the room obviously, but my take on the US Embassy's actions from listing to the Deputy CG interview, was Thai Immi was being a bit hard headed about this, and disingenuous in their feigned belief that Income claims had been fully verified all along.  USE quietly added an additional disclaimer to the Affidavits but in the end, had to fold because they couldn't comply, or lie.

 

I do wonder what kind of process is being used by Embassies still producing Income Affidavits, and to what extent Thai Immigration has inspected and "approved" the process.  Or did those Embassies maintain a poker face and just tell the Thais what they wanted to hear.