BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about withdrawing funds with a home county credit card and depositing them into a Thai account, and that the deposits would appear in you book-bank.

I was but they appear as "cash deposit".

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Just how much more expensive is it for a British retiree to satisfy the new income rules?

 

This time last year, with a THB/GBP rate of around 44, a retiree would have needed to SHOW a minimum income of 17,727 GBP (gross).  He could have brought as much of it into Thailand as he wanted to spend, by whatever means he wanted, (SWIFT, Transferwise, UK Credit Card, Cash, etc).

 

Now he must transfer in at least 65,000 bt/month using SWIFT.  The current typical Thai bank TT rate is around 39.5-40 THB/GBP.  Since Fx rate using the SWIFT method cannot be fixed until the cash arrives in Thailand and it can vary by around 1% in any 24 hour period, it makes sense to send at least an extra 1%. Including fees (assumes 20GBP for SWIFT), this requires sending 1663GBP/month, or 19953/yr.

 

But to actually receive this net of tax, he would need a gross pension of around 22,000/yr. (Assumes Personal Allowance of 11,850 and 20% tax above this, with no other deductions, such as child support, etc).

 

This represents a 4250 GBP increase (24%) in retirement income necessary for a Brit to satisfy the new income rules. 

Up to that point I can follow and agree with.

 

9 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Note: If Transferwise can be shown to be acceptable, this extra could be reduced to around 3300 GBP or 19%.

I have no idea how you arrive at that figure.

TW is typically only 0.5% above the banks TT rate.

On a £1,650 monthly transfer (66, 823 baht) the transfer cost is £10.18

 

That's a saving of £ 9.82 a month in transfer costs and with the better exchange rate an increase of 825 baht per month against a SWIFT transfer of £20 and the Thai banks TT rate.

12 x £9.82  = £117.84 per annum saving cost in transfer fees.

12 x 825 = 9,900 baht per annum @ 40.7 -£1 = £24.32 per annum better exchange rate.

£24.32 + £117.84 = £142.16 per annum.

 

Where do you get the savings of £950 or 19% using Transferwise against SWIFT.

[Yellowtail]

41 minutes ago, Spidey said:

$2084 by my calculations. Slightly worrying, I suppose. We'll all pray for a healthy Dollar.

 

I blame Trump! 555

Who did you blame in 2013 when 65K was $2,280, Bush? 555

[sumrit]

52 minutes ago, Spidey said:

First time in THB and I got screwed. This time in GBP and it was reasonable.

 

TransferWise charge a slightly higher fee than my bank but slightly better exchange rate. However I got the same or better exchange rate from my CC.

 

I have a problem trusting TransferWise as, even though I use Bangkok Bank I have seen reports that it isn't guaranteed that all 12 transfers will show up as "international transfer" on your statement. No point in taking the risk. Also you are using a middleman which creates one more step in the transfer. 

 

As you can probably gather, i'm a bit paranoid about the process, at the moment, but I'll get used to it. I also have the option of plan B if needed, 800k in a Thai bank account, but would prefer not to go there.

OK. Assuming around 70k Baht pm, today's rates you're about £26 a month worse off (assuming Halifax still charges £9.50 per transaction and BKKB charges are 200-500 Baht.

 

With Transferwise you know how many baht you'll get at the start of the transfer, with Swift you have to wait up to five days to find out.

 

I and several friends have used TW for over a year now without any problems. Complete the Transfer before 8:00am Thailand time and the money's usually in my Thai bank the same afternoon. Transfer after 8:00am and it'll arrive next day.

 

I've been downloading the receipt for every transfer since last August and all but one have been completed using the BKKB as the intermediary bank.  The one exception was in November when it went via TMB. And I've been assured I can obtain a credit advice note from the bank which will confirm that payment originated from abroad. Now I just check the TW receipt to see how it was transferred. Going to the bank 2-3 times a year to get a credit advice note, if needed is no big deal.

 

Since January I have been transferring my money in smaller amounts three times a month, the idea is to see how often the BKKB is NOT used as the intermediary bank. Six Transfers so far and all used the BKKB.

 

I don't believe TW is anywhere near the problem the scaremongers on this forum would have you believe. Almost all the problems I have read about concern Americans and centre around their different banking system and restricted options.

Edited February 21, 2019 by sumrit

[Yellowtail]

15 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I was but they appear as "cash deposit".

Ergo, the heat-trasfer slip discussion. 

 

You're right.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Yellowtail

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, sumrit said:

The one exception was in November when it went via TMB. And I've been assured I can obtain a credit advice note from the bank which will confirm that payment originated from abroad. 

Exactly. I don't need the hassle/worry. I just want to sit here, enjoying my Long Island Iced Tea and watch the world go by.

[Tanoshi]

14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Surely, all UK banks have online banking? A friend could set the rest up for him on a smartphone.

Sure they have online banking, but you have to be familiar with a PC and internet to use it.

He thinks a keyboard is a musical instrument.

Smartphone, a Nokia 105 sim free is about their limitation.

They can't even master the TV remote.

 

You suggest what, that he entrusts his personal information, bank account details and password to a third party to make the transfers on his behalf. I considered it, but really don't want to accept that responsibility.

 

[sumrit]

7 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Exactly. I don't need the hassle/worry. I just want to sit here, enjoying my Long Island Iced Tea and watch the world go by.

Sorry, my post was posted before I had finished writing. Here is the rest:

 

 .....and I've been assured I can obtain a credit advice note from the bank which will confirm that payment originated from abroad. Now I just check the TW receipt to see how it was transferred. Going to the bank 2-3 times a year to get a credit advice note, if needed is no big deal.

 

Since January I have been transferring my money in smaller amounts three times a month, the idea is to see how often the BKKB is NOT used as the intermediary bank. Six Transfers so far and all used the BKKB.

 

I don't believe TW is anywhere near the problem the scaremongers on this forum would have you believe. Almost all the problems I have read about concern Americans and centre around their different banking system and restricted options.

 

Quote

Exactly. I don't need the hassle/worry.

 

When I Transfer any money I look at the TW receipt as soon as it arrives by email (and that's before the money even arrives in Thailand) If it says BKKB, no problem. If it says TMB or Kasikorn I'll go to the bank to get a credit advice note. I've done 11 transfers so far since August and had just one TMB related transfer. Going to the bank 1-2 times a year is no hassle/worry at all. You know what's needed before the money even arrives.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, sumrit said:

Going to the bank 1-2 times a year is no hassle/worry at all.

You don't understand my lifestyle. That's serious hassle worry for me. I came to Thailand to get away from all that. If my wife can't do it, it doesn't get done.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Variable taxation levels, but for British expat using your 70K a moth as his income before tax, he'd be taxed about 48,000 baht per annum, or 4,000 baht per month.

 

One of my neighbours is an 84 year old British expat, married to a Thai 37 years, lived in Thailand 23 years.

He always been on a retirement extension using the Embassy Income letter as proof.

His UK state pension is frozen, another company pension receives annual increases.

His total income (gross) last year was 67,000 baht.

 

Now he hasn't the option of the Embassy letter.

Transferring his income (nett) plus transfer costs will bring his available income to less than 65,000 baht per month using Thai bank statements.

He doesn't have internet banking.

He doesn't own a PC.

He thinks the internet is something they put across the middle of a tennis court.

He's always withdrawn his cash using his UK debit card from a Thai ATM.

Over the years he's invested around 8 million baht in land, house and truck.

 

Although he can meet the requirement for a marriage extension, he can't meet the requirement to transfer it into a Thai bank.

His other option is a Non Imm O ME Visa from Savannakhet, but due to age and walking difficulties he can't make the journeys.

His Thai family have offered to put the 400K in his Thai bank account for the required two months when it's required, but due to pride, stubbornness, and pure frustration he's refused and states he merely go into overstay and let Immigration deal with the aftermath of his care. He can't fly anymore due to his conditions, so returning him to Blighty wouldn't be an option.

 

There must be more who now find themselves in this predicament.

 

Yes, there are people that this creates a problem for.

 

So if after 20 years they would have decided to raise the minimum to 70K/mo he'd be screwed too, yes?

 

Or if the pound went south another 5% he would not qualify as well. 

 

Everytime anything changes it affects some people negatively.

[erymax]

Hi I just checked the Western Union out. I never liked it because it use to be very expensive. i managed to register UK account using VPN and logged in. I might be worth to test it.

this is the summary: 

Summary

Exchange Rate ²

---

 

1.00 GBP = 40.4000 THB 

 

Transfer amount 1700.00  GBP

Transfer fee 2+ 0.00  GBP

Transfer total 1700.00  GBP

 

Total Receiver gets

68679.98THB

Delivery time: ^{1, 8, 28}1-2 Business days

using UK Bank transfer to Thai Bank

 

 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

You don't understand my lifestyle. That's serious hassle worry for me. I came to Thailand to get away from all that. If my wife can't do it, it doesn't get done.

 

I thought you were already going to the bank 12 times a year to get cash with your credit card, no?

 

No reason your wife can't do it...

[steve73]

27 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

55 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Note: If Transferwise can be shown to be acceptable, this extra could be reduced to around 3300 GBP or 19%.

I have no idea how you arrive at that figure.

TW is typically only 0.5% above the banks TT rate.

On a £1,650 monthly transfer (66, 823 baht) the transfer cost is £10.18

 

That's a saving of £ 9.82 a month in transfer costs and with the better exchange rate an increase of 825 baht per month against a SWIFT transfer of £20 and the Thai banks TT rate.

12 x £9.82  = £117.84 per annum saving cost in transfer fees.

12 x 825 = 9,900 baht per annum @ 40.7 -£1 = £24.32 per annum better exchange rate.

£24.32 + £117.84 = £142.16 per annum.

 

Where do you get the savings of £950 or 19% using Transferwise against SWIFT.

When making a SWIFT transfer the Fx rate won't be applied until the cash arrives, so to be sure you receive enough, you need to send an extra 1% or thereabouts.  And this extra you need to send is from your NET income.

 

Using TW, you can send exactly 65,000 and be sure it will arrive.  You can also choose when to send it, taking advantage of any monthly/daily peaks in Fx rate.  Using TW you can often BEAT the daily average Fx rate (even after costs).  My assumptions result in TW beating Bank TT rates by around 2-3%... The additional cost of SWIFT is net, so the extra requirement to your gross income is 20% higher.

 

Sure, some of these assumptions are subjective, but the point of my post was to demonstrate how severe the changes could be to many Brits... certainly much worse than many seem to think. 

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, steve73 said:

When making a SWIFT transfer the Fx rate won't be applied until the cash arrives, so to be sure you receive enough, you need to send an extra 1% or thereabouts.  And this extra you need to send is from your NET income.

 

Using TW, you can send exactly 65,000 and be sure it will arrive.  You can also choose when to send it, taking advantage of any monthly/daily peaks in Fx rate.  Using TW you can often BEAT the daily average Fx rate (even after costs).  My assumptions result in TW beating Bank TT rates by around 2-3%... The additional cost of SWIFT is net, so the extra requirement to your gross income is 20% higher.

 

Sure, some of these assumptions are subjective, but the point of my post was to demonstrate how severe the changes could be to many Brits... certainly much worse than many seem to think. 

I can't imagine transfer fees costing more than $50 a month for 65K 

[steve73]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I can't imagine transfer fees costing more than $50 a month for 65K 

It's not just the fee... TW gives you the flexibility to optimize the rate...

 

I give up - you can lead a horse to water etc....

[ttrd]

33 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I can't imagine transfer fees costing more than $50 a month for 65K 

Every time I transfer from 100 - 150k I pay just 1000thb in fees to the receiving bank which is Siam Commercial Bank (SCB) which seems to be a fixed fee as I have also have paid 1000thb in fee for a transfer of 10.000thb.

The fee I pay to my transferring bank is even less (equal to about 200thb). So 50usd pr transfer is far to much ...

It seems to be worth to spend some time to shop around ...

Edited February 21, 2019 by ttrd

[brokenbone]

34 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I can't imagine transfer fees costing more than $50 a month for 65K 

that makes for $600 a year, on par with paying an agent for the visa with less hassle with IO to boot, for as long as we are stuck in LOS

[Yellowtail]

23 minutes ago, steve73 said:

It's not just the fee... TW gives you the flexibility to optimize the rate...

 

I give up - you can lead a horse to water etc....

 

I love when I make a statement and someone comes back with some condescending response that does not address my statement. I assume they are used to talking to children.

 

I understand how fees and rates work, what I don't understand is how you know when the optimum time to transfer is?

 

If I knew how currency moves I would be incredibly wealthy.

 

Anytime you make a transfer you have a 50% chance of beating the daily average, yes?

 

 

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

that makes for $600 a year, on par with paying an agent for the visa with less hassle with IO to boot, for as long as we are stuck in LOS

Yet it is not much in the scheme of things, certainly not enough to make me think about moving to Vietnam. In any event, most people have to transfer money anyway.

 

It's a good bet agent fees will be going up significantly, they have to.

[Yellowtail]

22 minutes ago, ttrd said:

Every time I transfer from 100 - 150k I pay just 1000thb in fees to the receiving bank which is Siam Commercial Bank (SCB) which seems to be a fixed fee as I have also have paid 1000thb in fee for a transfer of 10.000thb.

The fee I pay to my transferring bank is even less (equal to about 200thb). So 50usd pr transfer is far to much ...

It seems to be worth to spend some time to shop around ...

I did say I could not imagine it costing more than $50, yes?

 

[ttrd]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I love when I make a statement and someone comes back with some condescending response that does not address my statement. I assume they are used to talking to children.

 

I understand how fees and rates work, what I don't understand is how you know when the optimum time to transfer is?

 

If I knew how currency moves I would be incredibly wealthy.

 

Anytime you make a transfer you have a 50% chance of beating the daily average, yes?

 

 

I always call the market dep. in my transferring bank and ask for the best exchange rate which is always better than if I just perform the transfer through the net bank without to establish the exchange rate up front. I then transfer thb so this can be the reason for the low fee in the receiving bank (a fee of 1000thb only despite if I transfer 10k or 100k/thb).

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, ttrd said:

I always call the market dep. in my transferring bank and ask for the best exchange rate which is always better than if I just perform the transfer through the net bank without to establish the exchange rate up front. I then transfer thb so this can be the reason for the low fee in the receiving bank (a fee of 1000thb only despite if I transfer 10k or 100k/thb).

Strange. My receiving bank, Bangkok Bank, charges me 200 baht. My sending bank in the UK charges me £9.50, 380 baht. I've never known the receiving fee to be more than the sending fee.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, ttrd said:

I always call the market dep. in my transferring bank and ask for the best exchange rate which is always better than if I just perform the transfer through the net bank without to establish the exchange rate up front. I then transfer thb so this can be the reason for the low fee in the receiving bank (a fee of 1000thb only despite if I transfer 10k or 100k/thb).

I don't transfer much, but I generally just use TW and check the rate they lock in against the rate on XE, it usually looks okay to me, and it's quick and easy with the phone app.

[stud858]

I intend to apply for o-a visa in Australia getting a possible stay of two years then travelling back to Oz to repeat the visa o-a. Avoiding extensions.

I think bank balance of 800 K has to be shown only for application.

I'm wondering if agents / money lending method will work out in that instance. 

So if that's so, it would be an option for those struggling with the extension rule changes to change to avoiding extensions and reapplying for o-a visas only, right?

 

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Yes, there are people that this creates a problem for.

So if after 20 years they would have decided to raise the minimum to 70K/mo he'd be screwed too, yes?

Or if the pound went south another 5% he would not qualify as well. 

Everytime anything changes it affects some people negatively.

Oh a guy with real heart.

What's your limit of income in 20 years time.

 

His problem isn't the income, he way exceeds the requirement for a marriage extension, his problem is that now the Embassy letter is no longer available, which he obtained the old fashion way by pony express, and they won't accept his ATM receipts, he now has to enter the modern electronic world of transfers, something he has neither the knowledge or equipment to complete.

Computers only became affordable to the public in the 70's.

I bought my first PC 20 years ago, he was already 64 then, already living in Thailand and I bet internet was only available in certain areas of Thailand at that time.

[Tanoshi]

31 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I intend to apply for o-a visa in Australia getting a possible stay of two years then travelling back to Oz to repeat the visa o-a. Avoiding extensions.

I think bank balance of 800 K has to be shown only for application.

I'm wondering if agents / money lending method will work out in that instance. 

So if that's so, it would be an option for those struggling with the extension rule changes to change to avoiding extensions and reapplying for o-a visas only, right?

 

Another noob who lied on his stat dec and started this mess in the first instance.

 

[Yellowtail]

9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Oh a guy with real heart.

What's your limit of income in 20 years time.

 

His problem isn't the income, he way exceeds the requirement for a marriage extension, his problem is that now the Embassy letter is no longer available, which he obtained the old fashion way by pony express, and they won't accept his ATM receipts, he now has to enter the modern electronic world of transfers, something he has neither the knowledge or equipment to complete.

Computers only became affordable to the public in the 70's.

I bought my first PC 20 years ago, he was already 64 then, already living in Thailand and I bet internet was only available in certain areas of Thailand at that time.

4

 

Oh, I'm heartless because I don't think public policy should not be based on 0.01% of the population.

 

He's your friend, why don't you help him? How hard could it be for you to help him? Were he my friend I would help him, not piss and moan about it on a website looking to the state to help him.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Another noob who lied on his stat dec and started this mess in the first instance.

 

Oh, a guy with real heart.

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Oh, I'm heartless because I don't think public policy should not be based on 0.01% of the population.

 

He's your friend, why don't you help him? How hard could it be for you to help him? Were he my friend I would help him, not piss and moan about it on a website looking to the state to help him.

 

Theoretically that would mean he'd have to give me Power of Attorney.

Even then I wouldn't want to be responsible for holding his personal banking information, passwords, PIN's etc.

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Oh, a guy with real heart.

Perhaps you could lend him the money then, being your such a charitable Samaritan

Thought not!