What Would You Do?

[soundman]

What would you do? – Employee Theft / Scams

Most foreigners doing business in Thailand have to rely on (to one degree or another) & place staff in positions of trust. What would you do when that position is abused?

I had a senior sales / technical staff do this in my business recently:

(background – most sales we do in pro audio are on extended credit basis –30% deposit , 30% on delivery, balance b/w 2 – 6 months, depending on sale price, interest etc.)

* - Ring a customer, inform the customer that the boss is overseas for three weeks, and that the factory is a little short of money because some other customers are slow on paying and that he has to organize money for the staff salary & can this customer please transfer to his bank account. The stupid customer did exactly this not even once considering that it might be a scam. (theft by deception)

* - Take a sales order for audio equipment from my customer, buy this equipment through my suppliers, at my bulk buying discount rate, receiving payment from the customer & paying the supplier without informing the office or passing on the profits. (moon-lighting)

* - Sell a concert speaker system (all inclusive of speaker leads), deliver the system, tell the customer that the leads are not included in the price, ask for cash from the customer to go & buy the leads, then deliver the leads, and pocket the money. The stupid customer did not even realize that the leads were included even though it was printed on the sales invoice. (theft by deception)

* - Inform customers who normally "custom order" direct to the factory that they now have to place the order through a distributor who receives wholesale prices. He then quotes the retail price to the customer & pockets the difference between himself & the (now former) distributor. (theft by deception)

Thankfully we have been able to prove a few of these scams to the police's satisfaction & charges have been laid. We have spoken with the amphur judge (a family friend) & he promises that the case will have his (or his fellow member of the bench) full attention with the full punishment available to be handed out.

What would you do?

Would you think twice about putting staff in positions of trust again?

Cheers,

Soundman.

Edited February 26, 2007 by soundman

[alexth]

Would you think twice about putting staff in positions of trust again?

You should have thought about this BEFORE hiring him. And yes, I would think as many times as possible before hiring staff in trust positions. Of course, not even then, I wouldn't be completely assured, but that's supervising and it's something else.

[soundman]

Would you think twice about putting staff in positions of trust again?

You should have thought about this BEFORE hiring him. And yes, I would think as many times as possible before hiring staff in trust positions. Of course, not even then, I wouldn't be completely assured, but that's supervising and it's something else.

Only problem is that if you don't want to remain a "one man show" and expand your business, you have to place people in positions of trust. Of course your management must have as many "checks & balances" as practically possible in place.

From my experience of business in thai (both foreigners & thai business's), the staff here are always inventing scams to try and make a bit of money on the side. Some of the scams I've seen are just downright stupid, others pretty clever.

Soundman.

[GuestHouse]

Regular Audits

Move people around so that they don't build a little empire of their own.

Be as cunning as a fox yourself.

[soundman]

Regular Audits

Move people around so that they don't build a little empire of their own.

Be as cunning as a fox yourself.

Totally agree with items you have pointed out.

If any of your distributors are in collusion with your office staff people, how would you ever know if a customer didn't actually complain?

Another example; We have a petrol station. A while ago the cashier of the petrol station & the staff of a particular customer got together & thought up a great idea to rip off the owners. Every time the staff came to fill up the truck (1 month credit account), the pump staff would put 900B in the tank and sign over 1000B to the customers account. Another customer would buy 100B petrol which would not be entered into the till. The 100b left over would be split 3 ways at the original customers expense. This went on for a couple of years before we caught the cashier.

This cashier is now spending 6 years in prison. We also were able to claim land of her family as compensation for money stolen.

The staff of the customer has dissappeared off the grid.

Keep your eyes open,

Soundman.

[GuestHouse]

Here's an example of what I mean by 'As Cunning as a Fox'

I have a friend who opened a small restaurant and when that took off expanded to a second branch in the same town.

He suspected the drinks and food where being skimmed but didn't know how to prove it.

He eventually hit on the idea that instead of delivering beers directly to whole saler to the branch, he do that delivery himself.

He then got himself an ultrviolet marker pen (the kind the police back home recommend you mark electronic good with) and marked all the bottles he deliverd to his branch cafe.

Checking the returned bottles with an ultraviolet light revealed he was loosing almost a third of beer sales (bottles being provided by the staff).

He later refined this with monitoring water usage. He tells me that there is a direct correlation between how much water is used in a month, and how many customers his restaurants have (not rocket science).

I think as since you seem to be selling services and goods off site, then follow up customer visits might be an idea. And perhaps printed sheets explaining what is included in a package as part of the sales bumf.

And how about the odd 'check customer', someone going along to buy goods/services then reporting directly back to you.

My impression is that on the one hand many staff are looking for a chink by which they can make a few pennies, while on the other hand they expect you to be watching.

Play the game .... and dismiss offenders.

I should add, some of the time sheets and expense forms that come across my desk exhibit remarkable skills of fiction writing in the Italian language.

It's not a Thai staff thing, but it is a problem where the staff believe you haven't got your eye on the ball, regardless of your and their nationality.

Edited February 26, 2007 by GuestHouse

[soundman]

Here's an example of what I mean by 'As Cunning as a Fox'

I have a friend who opened a small restaurant and when that took off expanded to a second branch in the same town.

He suspected the drinks and food where being skimmed but didn't know how to prove it.

He eventually hit on the idea that instead of delivering beers directly to whole saler to the branch, he do that delivery himself.

He then got himself an ultrviolet marker pen (the kind the police back home recommend you mark electronic good with) and marked all the bottles he deliverd to his branch cafe.

Checking the returned bottles with an ultraviolet light revealed he was loosing almost a third of beer sales (bottles being provided by the staff).

He later refined this with monitoring water usage. He tells me that there is a direct correlation between how much water is used in a month, and how many customers his restaurants have (not rocket science).

I think as since you seem to be selling services and goods off site, then follow up customer visits might be an idea. And perhaps printed sheets explaining what is included in a package as part of the sales bumf.

And how about the odd 'check customer', someone going along to buy goods/services then reporting directly back to you.

My impression is that on the one hand many staff are looking for a chink by which they can make a few pennies, while on the other hand they expect you to be watching.

Play the game .... and dismiss offenders.

I should add, some of the time sheets and expense forms that come across my desk exhibit remarkable skills of fiction writing in the Italian language.

It's not a Thai staff thing, but it is a problem where the staff believe you haven't got your eye on the ball, regardless of your and their nationality.

Great stuff,

Don't missread my post as asking for help.... Its more along the lines of seeing what scams other business owners in Thai have come across & what they have done with the offenders.

I hear of some people letting the offenders off the hook with warnings. Mate!!! Once they have crossed the line & stolen from me i'll let the full force of the "dark side" come upon the offender, but that's just me.

I have read a fair few of your recent posts. (I'm a recent addition to TV) Informing & enlightening.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[junkofdavid2]

I used to have a fastfood franchise in a nearby Asian country. I knew that my staff was stealing and already had evidence.

I coordinated with the cops and had them arrested and cuffed right in front of the rest of the staff. They were jailed for about 2 weeks until their entire families were able to put together some kind of "compensation" to me to cover for the theft for which there was concrete evidence. Of course, I'm sure that they had stolen a lot more in the past which I didn't spot and didn't have evidence for. But at least I got "some" money back and sent a message to the rest of the staff.

[bino]

I've had a couple of situations....

We run a travel business. One employee would stay late in the office occasionally - seemingly wanting to get caught up on work. What we didn't realize is that she was making appointments with customers to come in while she was there alone to make payments for advance airline / hotel bookings.

This employee wasn't exactly stealing... it was more like "borrowing", in that these invoices would get cleared after payday. I noticed that we were getting more cash in at the beginnings of the month, but didn't suspect anything. I just figured that the customers were coming up with the money at this time as they themselves were getting their paychecks.

The employee didn't get busted until the office manager called a customer one day to ask for a payment on a booking. The customer then told us that they had been to the office and paid the money to our employee two weeks previously. They had a receipt dated and signed by the employee on our letterhead, which she had created in MS Word and not our official system. When the employee repaid the loan, she would enter it in the system, print the official tax invoice / receipt, and trash the customer copy.

Since the company hadn't lost anything, we terminated the employee immediately with cause, and withheld all of the outstanding account monies from her final pay.

In the other case, which had actually happened before the one above, we had decided to try keeping the office open during the evenings and had an employee stay until 10 PM every night. To pass the time during their boredom and solitude, they were calling the hometown of Khon Kaen to chat with family and friends on the company phone.

The following month's bill was enormous, and obvious as hel_l due to the timing of the calls and the location. We had the employee busted dead to rights. The amount was actually in excess of the employees salary due. We threatened them with the police and charges unless they could come up with the money before the end of that business day. Needless to say, she found the money. We then terminated her with cause.

After this incident, we figured that there was no point in remaining open in the evenings.

The OP asks if I would have a problem putting people in positions of trust? Not really. Since I can't run the show by myself, I have little choice. Just gotta play the game, think like a thief to catch a thief. When I find someone who has abused the trust I will terminate them and do everything possible to recover the position of the company, and would not hesitate to prosecute anyone who can not make good on this.

When you do find a good and trustworthy employee, which most of them are / have been, take care of them!

Edited February 27, 2007 by bino

[andy1308]

We had an incident recently where a now-former member of staff stole some valuable equipment. She had been with the company for several years and was the last person you would think to be capable of something like that.

Our approach worked and we got the equipment back. We informed her via her family (because surprisingly she was not at her home address) that we would be informing the police at a certain time on a certain day unless the equipment was returned. The power of the family worked wonders and the equipment was returned before our deadline.

I agree about moving people around where possible and not allow them to establish empires or scheme of their own. I've heard (from a trusted source) that one publishing company was paying well over the odds for their printing because the chief designer and the printing company were both up to no good.

Sad to say, it seems to happen more than anyone will care to admit.

[soundman]

Heres another one for you all...

We have quite a few customers walk into our factory. They come in to look at, test & more often than not, buy our professional audio products.

Two years ago we eventually caught one of our foremen out. He was soliciting the walk in customers when no one was looking, & offering them the same product at a cheaper price. He was building the products at home in the evenings & on weekends.

We actually caught him through stock take descrepencies, he was also getting greedy & stealing my hardware to sell to my customers.

Probably would have taken a lot longer to catch him out if he was not stealing. We came to an arrangement where he was dismissed, forfitted all pay owing & we would not involve the police if he didn't produce my products again at his home. I send people past his house every so often to check that he is keeping his end of the deal.

Pity really. The guy was easily my most productive staff member.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[GuestHouse]

There are a number of dismissals and police reports/prosecutions and/or threats of police reports/prosecutions.

Fine with employees who are stangers, but I can't imagine that with a family member.

And I am only too aware of the pressures to employ family.

How do you deal with that?

(This is almost worth a thread of its own)

[soundman]

There are a number of dismissals and police reports/prosecutions and/or threats of police reports/prosecutions.

Fine with employees who are stangers, but I can't imagine that with a family member.

And I am only too aware of the pressures to employ family.

How do you deal with that?

(This is almost worth a thread of its own)

Ha Ha Ha,

Absolutely a topic for discussion.

What do you do with your brother in law who doesn't work much, & just goes and helps himself from the till when he feels like doing some modifications to his car?

Your wife - Can't comment! - or else I'm in the dog house for a week.

Your father in law - "the local godfather" (poo yai, tao gair or big boss)- I could write a book on this.

Answer to all above - Jump up & down, swear, turn red, and then do absuletly nothing, just grin & bear it.

Just treat it as you would with any dys-functional family where ever you come from. (no implication intended towards anybody's specific situation)

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Temporaneo]

What would you do?

I would sell the company or even better close it down so the Thai workers get all fired.

It's definitively retribution time for this "people".

[junkofdavid2]

What would you do?

I would sell the company or even better close it down so the Thai workers get all fired.

It's definitively retribution time for this "people".

Even if you close down a company, you'd still have to pay the employees severance pay. Not good retribution, if you ask me...

[soundman]

What would you do?

I would sell the company or even better close it down so the Thai workers get all fired.

It's definitively retribution time for this "people".

Even if you close down a company, you'd still have to pay the employees severance pay. Not good retribution, if you ask me...

And after you,ve closed your business, what would you do?

Open the classifieds & toss a coin as to which job out of the many offers you will apply for.

By personality & trade I am "the engineer" not "the teacher" even though I don't mind sharing what I know. Not many jobs for self & industry taught engineers without a masters degree in Thailand.

Soundman.

[Yamantaka]

Hello, Soundman!

A lot of what happened can be prevented by setting up accurate systems which require accountability of employees, and which eliminate the possibility of doing what they did. You can do this by documentation like checklists, sign-off sheets, signed delivery lists. Now that you've experienced Thai work ethics, you are better prepared to anticipate what can happen.

Get a whiteboard and work backwards from the theft, charting out all the steps it took to steal from you and your customers. Try to think like a thief and find ways to steal from yourself. Then look for mechanisms to thwart the theft.

Einstein said "Intellectuals solve problems. Geniuses prevent them." Be a genius!