7 minutes ago, Benroon said:

you see westerners all the time with a massive belief of self importance and entitlement as they clearly have it in their heads they are superior.

Off topic,

Does my degree and my postgraduate and 65K pension make me more important than someone who left their village school age 12 and earns 10k in a good month for a 60 hour week?

It's an interesting concept/discussion and I know the Thai answer.

 

Back on topic,

When they charge us (white folk) the same price as everyone else (brown folk), I'll start giving a damn about them losing some of their vast profits to unscrupulous foreigners.

 

My daughter (Thai uni student) came back from the dentist last week with a bill for 6kbht, 2 wisdom teeth they removed from her mouth without asking how she could pay or when they would be paid.

Edited March 11, 20197 yr by BritManToo

3 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

True, but there have been too many cases of malpractice where the Thai hospital made a mess of the job and expected the Farang to pay double Thai prices. And of course, this being Thailand, no responsibility!

bad news for you...it's all around the world, read the US news, not voluntarily ignoring other countries, but just for an easy reference, you will see how many malpractice cases happen there on a weekly basis, please, don't blame everything on Thailand, there's no such thing as a perfect place, they all have pros and cons

27 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

When they charge us (white folk) the same price as everyone else (brown folk), I'll start giving a damn about them losing some of their vast profits to unscrupulous foreigners.

Farangs are already paying double, so how is it they think we have not paid enough already? And how long before they link health and insurance with visa? There comes a point where the pleasure isn’t worth the pain and one leaves.

 

Money and medicine are a bad mix, which is why the UK NHS is so wonderful. By comparison, listed on the stock exchange, Bumrungrad is a business first and a hospital last. The only part of a Thai hospital you can guarantee to be efficient and capable is the cashier. And no, I’m not bashing the Thais, I merely speak as I find.

 

I would not mind if we got quality care and were not charged double what the Thais pay. If they want money then they must provide quality care and be responsible for their malpractice (which is common here). Must the man who received inept / poor care pay for it?

 

I can’t wait to see this so called “cheap” insurance policy. If they are going to instate compulsory insurance it’s probably a good thing, but is the insurance company expected to cover Farang double price hospital fees? In which case you can bet Farang insurance will cost double. And what about those who are too old, or have pre existing medical conditions that bar them from getting insurance?

 

I think medical insurance is a good thing but it needs handling right, and as we all know, this lot couldn’t organize a piss up in a pub.

 

As for leaving without paying…. Why did they let him out without paying? It is the hospital’s responsibility to ensure their patient has paid.

 

The noose is tightening. I foresee the point coming where old or sick Farang cannot get insurance or hospital care or visa. So how are we expected to invest or retire here in such circumstances?

 

We can post all we like here… all to no effect. Time we Farang had a means of petitioning the Thai Govt / Ministry of Health / Immigration etc for fair treatment. Can anyone on Thai Visa arrange?

 

Edited March 11, 20197 yr by DaRoadrunner
.

I have a friend who is currently in chonburi public hospitial, no insurance so self funding.

 

Liver problems, maybe cancer, so will be a few week stay, ct scans, some operations, biopsy etc.

He is paying the same rate as the thai guy (with similar problems) in the bed next door, the same price for ct scans etc. His wife checks the cost of everything against what Thais are paying for the same services.

 

He has been given pricing/estimates for each procedure and a top end figure if major surgery is required.

 

Currently they appear to be billing as a major procedure/weekly stay is completed, a ct scan and blocked bile duct surgery, an account to be settled. 

 

_{again and again....}

_{300 Mill. Baht  are 7.5 Mill. Euro}

_{roughly 40 Mill. Visitors/Tourists per year  so 18,75 Baht per Visitor !!!!}

_{19 Baht  !!!}

_{they do already get the money. everyone has to pay it . it is within the ticket-prize.}

_{800 (1000 ?)Baht per ticket. They openly say that 200 Baht per passenger from this 800 Baht from passengers from abroad goes to subsidize the national passengers ( national flights).}

_{or lets take this:}

_{if you buy something for 211 Baht, you actually paying about 19 Baht Tax , even more if its alcohol. should be enough to subsidize the  governmental hospitals.}

_{300 Mill Baht.}

"Travel & Tourism generated 2,336,500 jobs (directly) in 2017 " totaly about 5.8 Mill. jobs

contribution of tourism to GDP/per year:  42.2 Bill. US Dollars  -  42.000 Mil. US Dollars  !!  total contribution 95 Bill. US Dollars

roughly tourism contributes about 6000 billion baht per year to GDP(direct, indirect and  induced) thats 6 trillions,

6.000.000.000.000 Baht  !!!!!

https://www.wttc.org/-/media/files/reports/economic-impact-research/countries-2018/thailand2018.pdf

 

300 Millions ...

my Buddha!

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1068546-nearly-half-a-billion-baht-spent-on-sand-but-pattaya-beach-is-a-filthy-mess/

 

 

28 minutes ago, Benroon said:

What ?? YOU use a service and you don’t think it’s YOUR responsibility to pay it ? 

 

Yet another post full of self important <deleted> !! Expats really need to get it into their heads you are nowhere near as important as you think you are, 

 

leaving is always an option if it gets too much ....

Like I said, I speak as I find. I'll give you an example of Thai responsibility. When they stole my motorcycle, I was told it was MY responsibility to ensure they did not take it. So I feel inclined to respond in kind and don't feel sorry for the Thai when, for once, they got shafted by a Farang.

 

As for expats thinking they are important, I never inferred this, however, we deserve at least equal fair treatment and are not getting it.

Edited March 11, 20197 yr by DaRoadrunner

The government should define as to the nationalities that default. I'd say it's not farang but Chinese/Asian to be the biggest defaulters.

4 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

The government should define as to the nationalities that default. I'd say it's not farang but Chinese/Asian to be the biggest defaulters.

1) Chinese.

2) Russian.

3) Indian.

4) Italian.

5) Israelis.

6) People from Liverpool.  

Not like Liverpool to let the side down.????

I thought the solution employed by some Thai hospitals in the past has basically been to seize the passports of their patients, as guarantee they won't skip out on the bill and/or try to leave the country. And/or report the issue the Thai Immigration.

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I thought the solution employed by some Thai hospitals in the past has basically been to seize the passports of their patients, as guarantee they won't skip out on the bill and/or try to leave the country. And/or report the issue the Thai Immigration.

 

Hospitals cannot legally hold your passport. A quick call to your Embassy saying that such-and-such is illegally holding your passport will solve that very quickly.

 

I know that beachside motorcycle rentals, jet ski mafia and police may have a different opinion, but it's not legal.

 

As far as not paying a Hospital Bill, it's not a criminal offense, it is a civil offense. Police and immigration will not do anything. I'm sure the hospitals have more pull than most people, and may be able to get an immigration stop, but that process takes time.

 

I have first hand experience...and I understand why hospitals want payment up front. If they don't and the client walks out, there is very little they can actually do.

 

...and thats why Thailand is tightening up controls on many fronts in regards to foreigners. The lax rules have been abused to the point that the Thai's are tired us. I welcome the stricter rules. There are far too many criminals, deadbeats and people that just don't deserve to be here that screw it up for everyone else.

 

7 minutes ago, DLock said:

 

Hospitals cannot legally hold your passport. A quick call to your Embassy saying that such-and-such is illegally holding your passport will solve that very quickly.

 

I know that beachside motorcycle rentals, jet ski mafia and police may have a different opinion, but it's not legal.

 

As far as not paying a Hospital Bill, it's not a criminal offense, it is a civil offense. Police and immigration will not do anything. I'm sure the hospitals have more pull than most people, and may be able to get an immigration stop, but that process takes time.

 

I have first hand experience...and I understand why hospitals want payment up front. If they don't and the client walks out, there is very little they can actually do.

 

...and thats why Thailand is tightening up controls on many fronts in regards to foreigners. The lax rules have been abused to the point that the Thai's are tired us. I welcome the stricter rules. There are far too many criminals, deadbeats and people that just don't deserve to be here that screw it up for everyone else.

 

 

I never said the "seize the passports" deal was legal. Just said, members here have reported hospitals here doing that in the past, AFAIR.

 

Quote

There are far too many criminals, deadbeats and people that just don't deserve to be here that screw it up for everyone else.

 

That might well be true, but there's not much anyone can do about kicking out of the country folks like corrupt politicians, do nothing or law breaking cops, bus-van-and-truck drivers who are road fatalities waiting to happen, wife-abusing lowlifes who burn, poison, beat, stab etc. their spouses to death, etc etc etc.

 

Edited March 11, 20197 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

Another country failing to recover medical treatment debts.

 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-hunt-fails-nhs-recover-9733489

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, DLock said:

Hospitals cannot legally hold your passport. A quick call to your Embassy saying that such-and-such is illegally holding your passport will solve that very quickly.

No it wont. They won't take a blind bit of notice and will continue to hold the ppt. The only option for the holder is to apply for a new one or (if tourist) an ETD.

Some time ago I followed an insurance  link on Thai Visa for a quote on health insurance . I am 71 and shocked to find their quote was 22,000 Bt a month !!!! what "farang is going to pay that??  So next a Thia Insurance Company  offered me 400,000 bt cover for 94000 bt per annum.(7800 bt. per month) Still out of reach for most people hear. If it is bought in I will just go back to Aus. and get a 90 or 60  day tourist visa twice a year to come hear. An alternative would be somewhere like Cambodia and come to Thailand a couple of times a year for 60 or 90 days at a time ..the capital costs to go back to Australia would be an imediate car purchase as you can't just hop on a tuk tuk in Australia , furniture and many other things.. I have just sold my car hear this week and have 4 year old scooter..The shop will give me 15000 bt for it.. Then my exit policy would be "suitcase". !! ie what I can carry .. Crying shame about my lovely lady and her Daughters education which I am paying for would all come to a sudden halt !!! the Thais DO NOT CARE ONE LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR INDIVIDUAL CASE  and the good you are doing for a Thai and their family. I is not time Thai people started to care just a little ????

22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I never said the "seize the passports" deal was legal. Just said, members here have reported hospitals here doing that in the past, AFAIR.

 

 

That might well be true, but there's not much anyone can do about kicking out of the country folks like corrupt politicians, do nothing or law breaking cops, bus-van-and-truck drivers who are road fatalities waiting to happen, wife-abusing lowlifes who burn, poison, beat, stab etc. their spouses to death, etc etc etc.

 

 

I have heard the same thing regarding passport holding from Hotels, hospitals, motorcycle renters etc...so I am sure it is done and I am sure Officer Somchai will help such businesses intimidate uneducated people to get paid...but from experience, someone who knows the system, can essentially walk away from his payment responsibilities, get his passport and disappear....and the business can only lodge a civil claim, or possibly an immigration halt...

 

...although you could also take a pretty decent beating as well..

 

Getting copies of passports, having signed and witnessed watertight contract agreements are important. But getting paid in advance for me, was key.

14 minutes ago, evadgib said:

No it wont. They won't take a blind bit of notice and will continue to hold the ppt. The only option for the holder is to apply for a new one or (if tourist) an ETD.

 

You are 100% wrong and the Embassy will contact the company holding the passport and then contact the police to go and get it. It belongs to the Embassy. It cannot be held, and should technically not even be given.

 

Go try it and see what happens.

5 minutes ago, jamestip1947 said:

Crying shame about my lovely lady and her Daughters education which I am paying for would all come to a sudden halt !

They could visit you in Cambodia, you could visit them in Thailand.

The border isn't far, and the bus isn't expensive.

52 minutes ago, DLock said:

 

Hospitals cannot legally hold your passport. A quick call to your Embassy saying that such-and-such is illegally holding your passport will solve that very quickly.

 

I know that beachside motorcycle rentals, jet ski mafia and police may have a different opinion, but it's not legal.

 

As far as not paying a Hospital Bill, it's not a criminal offense, it is a civil offense. Police and immigration will not do anything. I'm sure the hospitals have more pull than most people, and may be able to get an immigration stop, but that process takes time.

 

I have first hand experience...and I understand why hospitals want payment up front. If they don't and the client walks out, there is very little they can actually do.

 

...and thats why Thailand is tightening up controls on many fronts in regards to foreigners. The lax rules have been abused to the point that the Thai's are tired us. I welcome the stricter rules. There are far too many criminals, deadbeats and people that just don't deserve to be here that screw it up for everyone else.

 

That's a tired old myth.  Looking at this logically, the money they are costing is a fraction per head.  Politicians seems to be the main ones with the screwdriver????

18 hours ago, webfact said:

n the longer term, he would like to see long-stay tourists be required to buy life insurance, accident insurance and health insurance

Life insurance-I’m not buying life insurance.  I have health insurance.  

Geez... Ive always been a voice of reason with Thai issues...

 

But they just go on and on and ( deleted) on about the "cost of the falang" and so so very rarely mention falang inputs.

Its brain washing on a massive scale. 

300 million baht wouldnt go near building 5 luxury villas for the semi elite  here ,  let alone the hospitals major shareholders ...  but them horrible falangs are 'destroying' the Thai health system no matter how much extra they pay.

Bangkok Private Hospitals  wouldnt even exist without falangs , or their insurance   paying , but now we have to chase down the falang who dont pay..

What about the rest of the world bill the Thai government for every Thai who ran up a hospital bill in our countries ?

Honestly , Im here supporting 2 Thais ( neither my blood )  , but Im always the bad falang  trying to take advantage of the Thai ... while  its constantly the contrary ...

 

 

 

18 hours ago, mfd101 said:

No. Which is why the concept above of adding health insurance costs to your visa application + annual extensions is a really good one. 

 

 

And what about people with pre existing conditions? Insurance companies going to blanket cover everyone? Doubt it. Then they would have to increase the cost so much for everyone. Are you going to see people with pec flocking to Thailand to get in on the visa insurance so they can get coverage that they normally wouldn't be able to get? And if the limits are set low, well most of those hospital visits could be covered oop anyway. 

13 hours ago, Letseng said:

Not all folks over 60 are old and decrepit spending time in a wheelchair. Just remember, use your muscles or you loose them and with it goes your general health. Live a healthy life style.

This is a classic excuse for thinking a person does not need health insurance

 

You understand how insurance works right? What "insurance" means?

 

Does a person go buy fire insurance only after their home is ablaze?

 

As for healthy folks are you also saying joggers don't drop from heart attack? That only healthy folks get cancer?

 

Don't get me wrong healthy life is the way to go & I live clean, but it is naive to think that negates "insurance"

& the main reason Thailand is now concerned with so many "healthy" foreigners

I know dozens of Thais that pay no taxes, why are they covered? Foreigners come to Thailand and by Thai standards pump massive amounts in and in addtion provide the Bank Of Thailand with foreign currency reserves but don't give medical cover to non-Thais? Talk about all take and no give. Another way would be to let foreigners have the option of paying into the government system, not just only the private sector. How much does the average Thai put in. The national salary is how much outside of the cities, maybe 15,000 - 20,000 Baht per month. I wonder how many pay tax for health? Let's say 1500Baht which might be over but most foreigners can pay that. The system is based on the relatively low number who pay taxes who work for banks, hospitals etc covering the whole population of Thailand many of the older people have never paid tax and never will but they have cover. The foreigner who spends 150,000 per month in Thailand no he is not covered and made to look bad. Who contributes more to the Thai economy? Obvious! I would say around 75% of Thais I know pay zero tax as they are not officially employed. Mostly intentionally as they do not want a 9 to 5 job.

4 hours ago, AdamTheFarang said:

I know dozens of Thais that pay no taxes, why are they covered? 

Same reason why hundreds/thousand of westerners get free coverage in their country...Because it is THEIR country

 

The Thai government (like your government) feels a responsibility to those born & raised there. Not to some expat looking for a retirement haven.

Your looking at it from a lofty position most Thai farmers never see in their lifetimes.

 

As for taxes...It is Thailand Tax bracket that states none who make under 150k a year pay income tax...so those you know may all make less than 150k

thus are exempt from paying

Secondly...All Thai people do in fact pay tax in the form of 7% VAT if they buy anything outside a Talad

Edited March 11, 20197 yr by mania

12 hours ago, DLock said:

 

You are 100% wrong and the Embassy will contact the company holding the passport and then contact the police to go and get it. It belongs to the Embassy. It cannot be held, and should technically not even be given.

 

Go try it and see what happens.

Hospitals will not send and police will not retrieve no matter how many times an embassy complains in LoS.

Your '100% wrong' may well be correct but not in the direction you'd have us believe.

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by evadgib

My local govt hospital required a deposit of 10,000 baht up to 30,000  incase i died on the table fully refunded minus cost of treatment,i thought this a very fair system, it was my thai wife who knocked them down to 10,000. thank you Trat hospital your public surgery ward was fine as was the care given to me,and i got "Falang" food. WELL DONE !

19 hours ago, cnx355 said:

In the Philippines, if you stay 6 months or more you need Immigration clearance certificate before you fly out. They check local police records for warrants and unpaid tickets and that you do not any unpaid debt. I guess hospitals and companies and landlords can register unpaid debt in someway with Immigration. Maybe others knw how this is done.

 

It seems to be an efficient systems and  tourist and expats know that they can not escape to pay if they   are on long stay.

 

I read that Mr Duterte ( the President ) have a project to change  the requirement to 3 months.

 

And yes, you have to paid for this clearance certificate.

 

 

Yes well know how Mr Duterte likes to settle accounts.

 

As my mate said at 67 yrs old if i get health insurance i'll have to give up smoking and drinking ????

18 hours ago, car720 said:

Easy.  Australia.  They treat you first and bill you second.

Public Hospitals do treat first, but then bill non medicare card holders accordingly. 

medications when non medicare card holder is often difficult to get charged at full pharmaceutical prices