Man charged with murder after New Zealand mosque shootings

[samran]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

If gun laws stopped extremist nutters from using them to commit atrocities:

 

- Drug laws would work too. And the PC liberals want to soften or scrap them!

- Laws against DUI would work. And yet so many accidents still are caused by alcohol.

- All laws against all crimes would be effective.

 

But the reality is criminals, terrorists and nutcases use weapons - guns, knives, cars, trucks, bombs etc and will continue to do so because they don't give a fig about laws.

 

But the left wing liberals don't like citizens having guns, or being able to defend themselves because it goes against their desire of state control and making people reliant on the state. It's just political to them.

Not speaking for anyone else, but why is there an assumption that if you don’t think gun ownership is an absolute right that we are anti-gun? 

 

Most people are sensible enough to know that a gun can be a useful tool (hunting, pest control, farming) and is a fair enough sporting piece of equipment. 

 

I’ve got absolutely no problem with granting access for people who need them and that there be sensible licensing and training before people are given access to them. 

 

It’s just that we aren’t paranoid that the UN/New World Order are coming over the hill to get us. 

[Thainesss]

2 minutes ago, samran said:

Not speaking for anyone else, but why is there an assumption that if you don’t think gun ownership is an absolute right that we are anti-gun? 

 

Most people are sensible enough to know that a gun can be a useful tool (hunting, pest control, farming) and is a fair enough sporting piece of equipment. 

 

I’ve got absolutely no problem with granting access for people who need them and that there be sensible licensing and training before people are given access to them. 

 

It’s just that we aren’t paranoid that the UN/New World Order are coming over the hill to get us. 

 

Because you didn't even mention the biggest and most important reason of all: Self Defense. 

 

All the reasons you listed are all secondary to the right for a person to defend themself. 

 

The confines in which you place gun ownership means that people of lower means dont actually have a right to own a gun. Their worth and value is less than a person with means. Politicians and celebreties can have fully armed security details for protection but little ole pleb regular people are not valuable or worthy enough. 

 

All people are supposed to be equal. 

[Mark mark]

I think that the total Video, in full, might still on the Pirate Bay.  – Totally Disgusting.  – The mindful execution of Innocent begging people.

 

I agree with not advertising these Lunatics work, but well, I think that it should be watched,

 

1)    To enact the great sorrow and sympathy for the Victims !  …  And also to enact sympathy for other Races and religions WORLD WIDE.

 

And 2) it is also a very VERY !  Good advertisement for GUN CONTROL !  … 

 

Like look at how good this guy is with his guns, if having no morals or human kindness at all, … like if he does not get Life I would be very  surprised. But if he did not have a fully automatic War Weapon he could not have done it even half as well. And you do not need fully automatic war weapons for Hunting.

 

look how fast he can kill 40 People !  And wound 40 others !  …. ….  And then he had time to come back and finish off the wounded !  …  Like not even what most soldiers in war would do ! 

 

BUT IF HE DID NOT HAVE THE FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, !!!  You can see that without the fully automatic weapons, … I think that it is obvious, that he would not have been able to have killed even half of those People !  …  and most of the people that ran, may have escaped ! 

 

So Criminals could buy them any way ?  you say ? ... Well then, he might have been on the watch list ! if he had had to buy them off of other Criminals ! ? ...   And he might have been able to be stopped !  like they even Criminals would not tolerate this sort of disgusting  act.

 

Like it is a REAL good MUST watch clip, FOR REAL GUN CONTROL I think !  …  I think that Hair Piece should be forced to watch it ! ….  And the NRA !

 

Like Ban the legal sail of all fully Automatic, and semi-automatic weapons !  …  And reduce the Death Toll !  

 

Like this Loone bought these Guns LEGALLY !  And then just modified them, ….  An easy thing to do I have heard !  (Just remove a couple of chips of weld, out of the mechanism ???)

 

Yes BAN THEM ALL, the sail of all Automatic weapons ?  …..  Like why do we need them ???  ….  What justification is there of having them, …..  (To keep the NRA and gun sellers Happy ? … )  … 
 

[samran]

11 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Because you didn't even mention the biggest and most important reason of all: Self Defense. 

 

All the reasons you listed are all secondary to the right for a person to defend themself. 

 

The confines in which you place gun ownership means that people of lower means dont actually have a right to own a gun. Their worth and value is less than a person with means. Politicians and celebreties can have fully armed security details for protection but little ole pleb regular people are not valuable or worthy enough. 

 

All people are supposed to be equal. 

The self defense argument isn’t something that convinces me.

 

A humorous look at basically why I think the argument is BS.

 

 

[Mark mark]

6 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Because you didn't even mention the biggest and most important reason of all: Self Defense. 

 

All the reasons you listed are all secondary to the right for a person to defend themself. 

 

The confines in which you place gun ownership means that people of lower means dont actually have a right to own a gun. Their worth and value is less than a person with means. Politicians and celebreties can have fully armed security details for protection but little ole pleb regular people are not valuable or worthy enough. 

 

All people are supposed to be equal. 

Watch the Video, I think that it might be still on Pirate Bay, ... and then write back, and tell me that it is OK, for "Poor People" Like this, totally mental bastard, to legally buy, and own several fully automatic war weapons !!! and with Piles of piggy backed, Automatics magazines, and plenty ammunition to go in them !!! ...  They were M-16's weren't they ? A War Weapon. ... Not a Hunting rifle. ... But still bought legally. ! ... For What ? Protecting him self from an attack by a army ? ...  (Or the Police ?) ...

[Thainesss]

4 minutes ago, samran said:

The self defense argument isn’t something that convinces me.

 

I dont care if you're convinced or not. You've already made up your mind that you believe you know whats best for everyone else, which is in essence the basis of liberalism and why its such a dangerous ideology. 

 

Your politicians, the wealthy, celebrities - all a class of betters than the common folk who cant think for themselves and dont deserve and arent smart enough to protect themselves. 

 

Dont forget, it took 39 minutes for the police to react in NZ due to a complacent society.

[samran]

28 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

I dont care if you're convinced or not. You've already made up your mind that you believe you know whats best for everyone else, which is in essence the basis of liberalism and why its such a dangerous ideology. 

 

Your politicians, the wealthy, celebrities - all a class of betters than the common folk who cant think for themselves and dont deserve and arent smart enough to protect themselves. 

 

Dont forget, it took 39 minutes for the police to react in NZ due to a complacent society.

Well, no, it is something I’ve thought about a bit, researched and spoke to people like farmers about. 

 

My inital gut feeling - like many bought up in a society where they aren’t prevalent - would be to ban all guns, but I’m a bit more pragmatic than that. I just simply don’t believe it is a right nor that I don’t believe that the ‘self defence’  argument is a strong enough one where the pros outweigh the cons. 

 

But good try trying to make me out a as a non thinking numptie. Nor I would necessarily define myself as a ‘liberal’ but that is a label that you feel you need to put on me, then so be it. I guess if I haven’t got my shack in the mountains of Idaho then I must be one. 

 

As for the NZ response times, who knows? I mean you have massacres a couple of times per year in the US so you’d be better placed to compare than me...

[Mark mark]

9 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

The shooter was already breaking the gun laws. It is illegal to have a 30 round clip in a semi-automatic gun in NZ.

Gun laws didn't stop him. Do you think a man intent on mass shooting will be compliant to gun laws?

I think that he just had standard, probably legal small capacity magazines, just a lot of them, and plenty of ammunition to go in them, ... He just had to change them a lot, ... like inn a Woolfenstine Video game right !

 

.... When he is gearing up, you can see him putting what looks like piggy backed, side ways, as well as possibly back to back, smaller magazines, like 4 in bunch, ... all full of what look like M-16 high velocity bullets, in to the pockets on his Military shirt. ....  I think I saw him accidental put an empty magazine in, in the Video, and the he had to change it out again, ..... I think I only saw him get 5 or 6 shots out of each magazine.

 

So, apart from him Modifying the mechanism (That was already there in the legally purchased weapon) to make it fully automatic, all he had, was probably Legally bought.

 

(The video may still be on Pirate bay and well, I would say he probably will not come at you legally for down loading it any time soon.)

 

(...   The Video is disgusting and should put you off right wing Hate groups for ever I think, ... as well as turn you on to REAL gun control, re no automatic weapons AT ALL, not even modified down ones, ... NOT legally in the community. AT ALL.)

[Thainesss]

14 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Rare actions ?

 

Thats right. Statistically you're more likely to be involved in a plane crash than a mass shooting. 

 

14 minutes ago, Benroon said:

There is no better definition of lunacy than widespread gun ownership ! 

 

Thats your opinion. If you sleep better at night knowing your only option in the event of danger is to hide and call for help, so be it.

[Thainesss]

1 hour ago, samran said:

it is something I’ve thought about a bit, researched and spoke to people like farmers about. 

 

Wow. You spoke to "farmers" and thought about it "a bit". 

 

1 hour ago, samran said:

I just simply don’t believe it is a right nor that I don’t believe that the ‘self defence’  argument is a strong enough one where the pros outweigh the cons. 

Thats because at the core of the issue you dont believe in individual rights and the choice and responsibility of the individual. You believe that society should be punished for the actions of a few.

[Prissana Pescud]

On 3/16/2019 at 4:02 PM, simple1 said:

I lived in NZ for a few years and travelled throughout the country. NZ police do not carry weapons in their day to day duties. There is no need whatsoever for NZ civilians to own semi automatic weapons, large capacity magazines and so on. This mass murder exceeded the number of murders in the last year in NZ (37). it is absolutely correct to ban such weapons for civilian use. Hopefully the NZ government will implement the same program as Oz for the hand in of existing banned guns when laws are enacted..

While I agree to your overall sentiments, The facts are not true for Aus.

Weapon laws in Aus have decreased and weapon ownership is at an all time high.

I can not speak for NZ.

The shooters and crazy party is increasing.

They introduce feral pigs into pristine areas so that they can shoot one to make them feel like a man.

And basically, the law allows them to do this.

There is a big push to allow almost auto shot guns and it is gaining strength by the small penis challenged brigade.

Enacted by small penis challenged courts.

If you want a good sized gun, it is mostly because you do not have one. Small brain, small tessies.

[samran]

29 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Wow. You spoke to "farmers" and thought about it "a bit". 

 

Thats because at the core of the issue you dont believe in individual rights and the choice and responsibility of the individual. You believe that society should be punished for the actions of a few.

Figures of speech, understatement perhaps. 

 

But I don’t believe in those things either, but good try in trying to tar me. It’s what you blokes do best isnt it? 

 

Im actually quite a supporter of individual rights. Im an economist after all. 

 

I’m just not a paranoid libertarian. 

[Mark mark]

3 hours ago, Mark mark said:

I think that he just had standard, probably legal small capacity magazines, just a lot of them, and plenty of ammunition to go in them, ... He just had to change them a lot, ... like inn a Woolfenstine Video game right !

 

.... When he is gearing up, you can see him putting what looks like piggy backed, side ways, as well as possibly back to back, smaller magazines, like 4 in bunch, ... all full of what look like M-16 high velocity bullets, in to the pockets on his Military shirt. ....  I think I saw him accidental put an empty magazine in, in the Video, and the he had to change it out again, ..... I think I only saw him get 5 or 6 shots out of each magazine.

 

So, apart from him Modifying the mechanism (That was already there in the legally purchased weapon) to make it fully automatic, all he had, was probably Legally bought.

 

(The video may still be on Pirate bay and well, I would say he probably will not come at you legally for down loading it any time soon.)

 

(...   The Video is disgusting and should put you off right wing Hate groups for ever I think, ... as well as turn you on to REAL gun control, re no automatic weapons AT ALL, not even modified down ones, ... NOT legally in the community. AT ALL.)

...  No I was wrong, sorry, ,,,, he had Big 30 shot Plus ? Clips. so illegal ones ? ... still he should not have had an operational M-16 in the first Place.

 

 

[Mark mark]

At Great risk, of getting a kicking. .... Time to clean OUR HOUSE UP People. .... All right wing hate groups, and their supporters, must be put on watch lists. Not just noted, ... On Police watch lists. .... You are not going to change them, .... and half of them are not even nationals. .... Immigration should be reduced, to reduce the tension,.... I personally, have left Center Coalition, and now support the Sustainable Australia party at home.

 

...... But the hate groups, should all be put on Notice. .... I wonder what this guys family are thinking ? ....  I guess that they have Police Protection by now.

 

 

.

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, Mark mark said:

At Great risk, of getting a kicking. .... Time to clean OUR HOUSE UP People. .... All right wing hate groups, and their supporters, must be put on watch lists. Not just noted, ... On Police watch lists. .... You are not going to change them, .... and half of them are not even nationals. .... Immigration should be reduced, to reduce the tension,.... I personally, have left Center Coalition, and now support the Sustainable Australia party at home.

 

...... But the hate groups, should all be put on Notice. .... I wonder what this guys family are thinking ? ....  I guess that they have Police Protection by now.

 

 

.

Just the right-wing hate groups eh? And who is determining who is a hate group? The left, correct? Put all the people who disagree with us on police watch lists. The left so desperately wants to come out of the closet and declare their love for fascism. If it just wasn't called fascism they would be all over it. 

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and the replies have been removed.

 

Offensive posts, off topic deflection posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

[simple1]

10 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

While I agree to your overall sentiments, The facts are not true for Aus.

Weapon laws in Aus have decreased and weapon ownership is at an all time high.

I can not speak for NZ.

The shooters and crazy party is increasing.

They introduce feral pigs into pristine areas so that they can shoot one to make them feel like a man.

And basically, the law allows them to do this.

There is a big push to allow almost auto shot guns and it is gaining strength by the small penis challenged brigade.

Enacted by small penis challenged courts.

If you want a good sized gun, it is mostly because you do not have one. Small brain, small tessies.

Whatever. Some figures...

 

In the past 30 years, the number of households with at least one gun has declined by 75%

 

The number of people who died from gunshot wounds dropped by 63% in the same period.

 

Associate Prof Alpers said that the rate of gun-related crime had been "trending downwards since before 1996, but the rate of decline doubled after the law changes".

 

Australians now own more guns in total than they did before the 1996 crackdown, But gun ownership per capita has dropped by 23% during the same time

 

The number of gun-related homicides decreased by 57% between 1989-90 and 2013-14, according to the most recent official figures.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-44105129

 

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Just the right-wing hate groups eh? And who is determining who is a hate group? The left, correct? Put all the people who disagree with us on police watch lists. The left so desperately wants to come out of the closet and declare their love for fascism. If it just wasn't called fascism they would be all over it. 

This post has some very very confused thinking in it.

The world is not divided into far left and far right, the vast majority of the population of every country are normal decent people with moderate views, who just want to get on with their lives in peace, and not have themselves or their family threatened by nutters who think it is their "Right" to collect enough firearms to go on a killing spree. This is even true of the loony religious countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Israel, the US, (and now under the BJP India to a worrying extent).  

 

"And who is determining who is a hate group? The left, correct?"........ no complete and utter rubbish,  it is the "normal decent people with moderate views" that I referred too before. Accept in very few cases (Venezuela arguably) the Left have no more control on the leavers of state than the Right have, when looked at over a period of time. It sways one way or the other with elections of course.

 

People on the far Right are called Fascists and on the far Left are called Stalinists or Communists if you prefer. The people on the far Left are not closet fascists, unless you live in some paranoid fantasy world, that's just a matter of language -live with it.

 

This sick shooter was trying more than anything else, to achieve polarisation, to separate decent people into waring factions, they won't let that happen. The work that some posters on TV are doing to focus the event on Politics, Race or Religion, wittingly or unwittingly helps the shooter to achieve his ends.

 

[canuckamuck]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6

32 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

This post has some very very confused thinking in it.

The world is not divided into far left and far right, the vast majority of the population of every country are normal decent people with moderate views, who just want to get on with their lives in peace, and not have themselves or their family threatened by nutters who think it is their "Right" to collect enough firearms to go on a killing spree. This is even true of the loony religious countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Israel, the US, (and now under the BJP India to a worrying extent).  

 

"And who is determining who is a hate group? The left, correct?"........ no complete and utter rubbish,  it is the "normal decent people with moderate views" that I referred too before. Accept in very few cases (Venezuela arguably) the Left have no more control on the leavers of state than the Right have, when looked at over a period of time. It sways one way or the other with elections of course.

 

People on the far Right are called Fascists and on the far Left are called Stalinists or Communists if you prefer. The people on the far Left are not closet fascists, unless you live in some paranoid fantasy world, that's just a matter of language -live with it.

 

This sick shooter was trying more than anything else, to achieve polarisation, to separate decent people into waring factions, they won't let that happen. The work that some posters on TV are doing to focus the event on Politics, Race or Religion, wittingly or unwittingly helps the shooter to achieve his ends.

 

The normal and decent people of Germany were unable to stop Hitler's National Socialists to rise to power. It is always the vocal minority that pushes its agenda and good folks usually find something else to do. Fascism is not left or right, it is nationalist and authoritarian. And these days it has become globalist and authoritarian. Narrow views and zero tolerance of dissent or free speech, and contrived virtues which abandon the collective wisdom of the enlightenment. The very things required for every dystopian novel.

China's disastrous adoption of communism has morphed into a fascist state which relies, ironically, on capitalism. That is the way of authoritarianism. It's either fascism, dictatorship, or a feudal state; and often a blend of the three, but always greedy and paranoid.

 

"The work that some posters on TV are doing to focus the event on Politics, Race or Religion, wittingly or unwittingly helps the shooter to achieve his ends."

 

How is this event not about politics, race, and religion? You can't say Thai Visa posters made it that way. It is what it is.

 

 

[Mark mark]

10 hours ago, Mark mark said:

...  No I was wrong, sorry, ,,,, he had Big 30 shot Plus ? Clips. so illegal ones ? ... still he should not have had an operational M-16 in the first Place.

 

 

This guy had recently traveld pretty widely aparently, well to Europe any way, ... with several trips to Turkey, including one over 45 days long wasn't it ? ... Like why would a guy with Views like that, travel to Turkey, an Islmic though suposidly moderate country ... myltiple times and once for nealy 2 months ? ...

 

To go illegaly to Syria for weapons training ? Maybe ?.... or to just dick around on tbe border and possibly try to contact Christian refugees ?

 

No I think he was just interested in Trouble .... and Weapons traning !?

 

.... Why wasn't he on a wstch list I think ?

 

"The Class Clown" ... apparently ... so looke like some clowns are just covering up for deeper problems ?

 

I am glag that members of his family have fessed up with their disgust of him and publucly ssid that they just coukd not understand why he did it ? ... like he was not brought up that way. .... good information and good that they saud it. ... so why did he do it ? ...

 

I am starting to think just to make a great savage (Deleted) video, and to make him self famous. ??? .... I wonder if one day he will realise just how bad he made him self look ! Like and +++ on that. .... 

 

Yes, time we all started to just stand together a bit more. ...

 Who has the money and power is our only problem. Not other religions ....

 

And still GUN CONTROL !!! That realy still is it. The main thing that all of this shows, except the sadness for the inocent dead and injured ...  We do need it. .....  GUN CONTROL. .... NO LEGALY AVAILABLE BUMP STOCKS OR AUTOMATIC WEAPONS. that just is it ..... Whether ypu like it or not you gun lobiest loonies.

[Prissana Pescud]

On 3/18/2019 at 8:52 AM, simple1 said:

Whatever. Some figures...

 

In the past 30 years, the number of households with at least one gun has declined by 75%

 

The number of people who died from gunshot wounds dropped by 63% in the same period.

 

Associate Prof Alpers said that the rate of gun-related crime had been "trending downwards since before 1996, but the rate of decline doubled after the law changes".

 

Australians now own more guns in total than they did before the 1996 crackdown, But gun ownership per capita has dropped by 23% during the same time

 

The number of gun-related homicides decreased by 57% between 1989-90 and 2013-14, according to the most recent official figures.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-44105129

 

Australians now own more guns ..( I hate that word because it is not correct) They are weapons, not guns (check what a gun means)

So Australians own more weapons in total.

If you cannot see that in a compliant over all country like Australia needs to shoot dangerous indigenous kangaroos, you are  not quite sane. 

[simple1]

4 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Australians now own more guns ..( I hate that word because it is not correct) They are weapons, not guns (check what a gun means)

So Australians own more weapons in total.

If you cannot see that in a compliant over all country like Australia needs to shoot dangerous indigenous kangaroos, you are  not quite sane. 

Presumably you didn't note that:

 

Australians now own more guns in total than they did before the 1996 crackdown, But gun ownership per capita has dropped by 23% during the same time

[Prissana Pescud]

13 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Presumably you didn't note that:

 

Australians now own more guns in total than they did before the 1996 crackdown, But gun ownership per capita has dropped by 23% during the same time

Wow, Australians own more guns than before 1996.

And your point is?

[Prissana Pescud]

18 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Presumably you didn't note that:

 

Australians now own more guns in total than they did before the 1996 crackdown, But gun ownership per capita has dropped by 23% during the same time

I do not have an issue with a farmer culling rabbits. Or feral pigs.

I do have an issue for for shooters to own weapons to kill an elephant.

Or shooters who want to kill native animals.

Did you ever shoot a roo. You clap your hands to a mob and they all stand up and look at you.

I shot one. And it is still on m,y mind. Instead, the military taught me to shoot humans.

I regret that I shot a roo. There is no need for weapons in Australia except for military and police.

 

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

There is no need for weapons in Australia except for military and police.

How should roo be culled then? And roo meat is very healthy. We should be eating roo rather than beef

[Prissana Pescud]

5 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

I do not have an issue with a farmer culling rabbits. Or feral pigs.

I do have an issue for for shooters to own weapons to kill an elephant.

Or shooters who want to kill native animals.

Did you ever shoot a roo. You clap your hands to a mob and they all stand up and look at you.

I shot one. And it is still on m,y mind. Instead, the military taught me to shoot humans.

I regret that I shot a roo. There is no need for weapons in Australia except for military and police.

 

Other than professional shooters, sportsmen, target shooters. I have no issue with them.

Even at my age, I could put them to shame as long as it is a cardboard target, not some poor defenceless animal

[simple1]

21 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

I do not have an issue with a farmer culling rabbits. Or feral pigs.

I do have an issue for for shooters to own weapons to kill an elephant.

Or shooters who want to kill native animals.

Did you ever shoot a roo. You clap your hands to a mob and they all stand up and look at you.

I shot one. And it is still on m,y mind. Instead, the military taught me to shoot humans.

I regret that I shot a roo. There is no need for weapons in Australia except for military and police.

 

Yep. Shoot a kangaroo years ago for food when working for travelling bush boxing show

[simple1]

38 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Wow, Australians own more guns than before 1996.

And your point is?

Running out of patience. The point is overall gun ownership, as a percentage of population, has dropped significantly

[Prissana Pescud]

12 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

How should roo be culled then? And roo meat is very healthy. We should be eating roo rather than beef

I am not talking about shooters who kill a roo to cull. For feed or dog food or what ever.

I am talking about the blasters who kill. For the thrill.

And I suspect you know them. and roo is full of flukes, you have to check the guts to know good roo meat.

Pl;ease do not teach me to suck eggs.

BTW, if you could breed roos for huge consumption, half your luck (not going to happen)

[Prissana Pescud]

5 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Running out of patience. The point is overall gun ownership, as a percentage of population, has dropped significantly

Wow. Australians own more weapons now than 1996 and you want to parade that.

Some where along the debate you lost the plot.

 Just as an aside, do you realise just how many illegal, non reported weapons there are?

 You are uninformed at least or totally deluded at worst. 

Did you ever, even for a week, ever live in rural Australia?