The Thai Immigration Detention Process.

[Mavideol]

17 hours ago, BritTim said:

Denied entry is totally different from being arrested in country and subsequently deported (whatever the reason for the deportation). There are many good threads on ThaiVisa that describe what happens to people in the immigration detention centre (IDC) and the deportation process.

couldn't find any specific posts related to my concerns, couldn't find a post providing details about the time frame of a detention process and the options available to the one being arrested. I know that once arrested people are directed to the IDC, but do the person has the right to call somebody, are one's rights protected or once arrested no rights to anything even if Thailand portrayed themselves as human rights defenders as an example the case of the Qatar football player, or the girl from Saudi Arabia or is (was) it just for the show

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

couldn't find any specific posts related to my concerns, couldn't find a post providing details about the time frame of a detention process and the options available to the one being arrested. I know that once arrested people are directed to the IDC, but do the person has the right to call somebody, are one's rights protected or once arrested no rights to anything even if Thailand portrayed themselves as human rights defenders as an example the case of the Qatar football player, or the girl from Saudi Arabia or is (was) it just for the show

Re IDC arrests - per reports I have read:

 

Your phone will be taken - so best to call/message let someone you trust to help - let them know on your way there. 

Your consulate will be notified.  They should at least contact someone in your passport-country for you - but depending on your passport-country, possibly little more than that.

 

For a "fee" you can get things like better-food, clean water, ability to make a phone-call, etc.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, KarlS said:

Can you explain how many people have been exiting/entering Thailand for many years using legitimate visas/extensions of stay/re-entry permits (myself included) without any difficulty? What makes us "special"? 

First, you may not have been breaching whatever made up rules the immigration officials are applying. Secondly, your argument is similar to those who claim they have been smoking and drinking heavily for years with no damage to their health. They may be telling the truth. Some people, for various reasons down to luck, might engage in risky behaviours without bad consequences. It does not mean similar behaviours do not have serious repercussions for others.

[KarlS]

15 minutes ago, BritTim said:

First, you may not have been breaching whatever made up rules the immigration officials are applying. Secondly, your argument is similar to those who claim they have been smoking and drinking heavily for years with no damage to their health. They may be telling the truth. Some people, for various reasons down to luck, might engage in risky behaviours without bad consequences. It does not mean similar behaviours do not have serious repercussions for others.

You have obviously disregarded the fact the many millions of people pass through immigration every year without any difficulty.

[JackThompson]

35 minutes ago, KarlS said:

You have obviously disregarded the fact the many millions of people pass through immigration every year without any difficulty.

On the contrary, we know that - for example - a first-time visitor or rare visitor is much less likely to receive scrutiny than one who has a record of staying more often and longer without any criminal-incident, overstay, etc. 

 

Most of those "millions" in the "no difficulty" category are newbies or rare visitors.

 

The irony is, the track-record of the person who spent more time here, abiding by the law, provides evidence they are less likely to be a problem to the country, so - in theory - should receive less scrutiny, not more.  The proper response would be, "Welcome back!"

[KarlS]

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

On the contrary, we know that - for example - a first-time visitor or rare visitor is much less likely to receive scrutiny than one who has a record of staying more often and longer without any criminal-incident, overstay, etc. 

 

Most of those "millions" in the "no difficulty" category are newbies or rare visitors.

 

The irony is, the track-record of the person who spent more time here, abiding by the law, provides evidence they are less likely to be a problem to the country, so - in theory - should receive less scrutiny, not more.  The proper response would be, "Welcome back!"

When do you predict my son will be refused? - he visits us 4-5 times year and has a passport stuffed with VE entries. 

[Thailand Outcast]

3 hours ago, KarlS said:

When do you predict my son will be refused? - he visits us 4-5 times year and has a passport stuffed with VE entries. 

How long does he stay each time?

[KarlS]

20 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

How long does he stay each time?

Hardly relevant according to Thompson.  

[Thailand Outcast]

7 minutes ago, KarlS said:

Hardly relevant according to Thompson.  

He didn't state anything definitively, more his opinion.

 

If your son visits 4 to 5 times a year on visa exemptions, and extends them with 1900 baht, then I would say he's got an issue. 

 

Even if he doesn't extend them, 5 times a year, at 30 days each time, might be enough to be denied, as that's not far from half the year spent in Thailand.

 

If he stays 10 days each entry, he's probably ok.

 

This is why I asked how long he stays.

 

So, it is extremely relevant.

 

In any case, in the current climate, all people coming to Thailand regularly, and staying some length of time, should be concerned about what is happening and monitor the situation.  This is precisely why I started this thread. 

[KarlS]

1 minute ago, Thailand Outcast said:

He didn't state anything definitively, more his opinion.

 

If your son visits 4 to 5 times a year on visa exemptions, and extends them with 1900 baht, then I would say he's got an issue. 

 

Even if he doesn't extend them, 5 times a year, at 30 days each time, might be enough to be denied, as that's not far from half the year spent in Thailand.

 

If he stays 10 days each entry, he's probably ok.

 

This is why I asked how long he stays.

 

So, it is extremely relevant.

 

In any case, in the current climate, all people coming to Thailand regularly, and staying some length of time, should be concerned about what is happening and monitor the situation.  This is precisely why I started this thread. 

Nonsense - He has been visiting for over 14 years without a problem. In the very unlikely event of him experiencing difficulty a phone call to his step-mother(a senior government employee) would produce an instant solution.

[JackThompson]

45 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

4 hours ago, KarlS said:

When do you predict my son will be refused? - he visits us 4-5 times year and has a passport stuffed with VE entries. 

How long does he stay each time?

 

23 minutes ago, KarlS said:

Hardly relevant according to Thompson.  

Actually, quite relevant.  My point was that the policy of the IOs at bad entry points is illogical - but it is happening.
 

9 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

He didn't state anything definitively, more his opinion.

 

If your son visits 4 to 5 times a year on visa exemptions, and extends them with 1900 baht, then I would say he's got an issue. 

 

Even if he doesn't extend them, 5 times a year, at 30 days each time, might be enough to be denied, as that's not far from half the year spent in Thailand.

 

If he stays 10 days each entry, he's probably ok.

 

This is why I asked how long he stays.

 

So, it is extremely relevant.

I agree entirely with this.  Visiting 4 or 5 times of short-durations is much less likely to result in the IOs at the Bangkok airports denying entry.  I cannot guarantee they won't, because they don't operate with any sort of consistency with regard to a known limit.  But five 30-day stays will be more likely to be an issue than five 7-day stays.

OTOH, if someone enters at law-abiding land-border entry-points, "past stay time" would not be considered (as it should not be, legally), and one just needs to abide by the known rules.

Edited March 18, 2019 by JackThompson

[KarlS]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

Actually, quite relevant.  My point was that the policy of the IOs at bad entry points is illogical - but it is happening.
 

 

 

Interesting -- My son uses one of these so-called "bad entry" points. 

[Thailand Outcast]

21 minutes ago, KarlS said:

Nonsense - He has been visiting for over 14 years without a problem. In the very unlikely event of him experiencing difficulty a phone call to his step-mother(a senior government employee) would produce an instant solution.

Why are you even asking the question on this forum if you and your son have it all sorted?  After all, he's been doing it for 14 years without a problem.  ????

 

Ask his step mother what she could do about it, and post back the result of that enquiry.   Ask her if she'll make a phone call on my behalf also, for a fee, of course.  ????

 

It's a whole new game now, and your step son needs to be aware of it, as it's only going to get worse as many of the guys who do not have 800k in the bank move to tourist visas.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Thailand Outcast]

13 minutes ago, KarlS said:

Interesting -- My son uses one of these so-called "bad entry" points. 

Oh, so now it is relevant.  Yes, interesting, isn't it.  ????

[KarlS]

2 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Why are you even asking the question on this forum if you and your son have it all sorted?  After all, he's been doing it for 14 years without a problem.  ????

 

Ask his step mother what she could do about it, and post back the result of that enquiry. ????

 

It's a whole new game now, and your step son needs to be aware of it, as it's only going to get worse as many of the guys who do not have 800k in the bank move to tourist visas.

We shall see but we have little time for naysayers or rumour mongers. BTW  I was challenging assumptions not asking questions and my sons SM outranks any IO at an entry point. As stated we will have NO problems. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by KarlS

[Thailand Outcast]

3 minutes ago, KarlS said:

We shall see but we have little time for naysayers or rumour mongers, 

Read the many recent threads started by people who have been refused visas, and detained at the airport.  It's happening now, and it's real.  It's not a rumor, or scare mongering.  You can read it for yourself. 

 

I understand it's news you do not want to hear, but for your son's sake, monitor it, because it is extremely relevant to him.

 

  

[Happystance]

10 minutes ago, KarlS said:

We shall see but we have little time for naysayers or rumour mongers, 

And yet, here you are ????

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, KarlS said:

Interesting -- My son uses one of these so-called "bad entry" points. 

It's a matter of odds.  But how long does he stay each time - approximately?

 

10 minutes ago, KarlS said:

my sons SM outranks any IO at an entry point

In that case, if he name-drops them, it would end any problems - so he doesn't have reason for concern.  We know how that sort of thing works here.  If not on a "hands off" list, a high-ranking relative would add him to it in quick order.

[KarlS]

Just now, Happystance said:

And yet, here you are ????

Challenging the rumour mongers NOT agreeing with them or adding to the rumour mill. 

[Thailand Outcast]

11 minutes ago, KarlS said:

We shall see but we have little time for naysayers or rumour mongers. BTW  I was challenging assumptions not asking questions and my sons SM outranks any IO at an entry point. As stated we will have NO problems. 

Why doesn't your son's step mother just make a phone call and have an Elite Visa printed up for him?   ????

[Happystance]

Somewhat on topic, is there a current thread/list of freindly vs. hostile borders? I'm having trouble keeping track.

For example:

-I've read both good and bad things about Kuala Lumpur- used to be bad? Now is good? Avoid the consulate for visas? Yet good to fly from?

-Poipot land crossing- Lawless? Needs a bribe? Avoid at all costs?

-Both BKK and DMK entries to be avoided?

-Chiang Mai entry freindly?

[Thailand Outcast]

7 minutes ago, Happystance said:

Somewhat on topic, is there a current thread/list of freindly vs. hostile borders? I'm having trouble keeping track.

For example:

-I've read both good and bad things about Kuala Lumpur- used to be bad? Now is good? Avoid the consulate for visas? Yet good to fly from?

-Poipot land crossing- Lawless? Needs a bribe? Avoid at all costs?

-Both BKK and DMK entries to be avoided?

-Chiang Mai entry freindly?

Yes, an utterly ridiculous situation.  It really makes Thailand a laughing stock. 

 

Anyway, no point complaining about it, just be prepared for the worse, and that's why I started this thread. 

[DrJack54]

35 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Yes, an utterly ridiculous situation.  It really makes Thailand a laughing stock. 

 

Anyway, no point complaining about it, just be prepared for the worse, and that's why I started this thread. 

Rubbish. The truth about your thread is that you want have attention and cause worry. Pretty much similar to your other threads. Stop bashing Thailand. Move on. 

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, Happystance said:

Somewhat on topic, is there a current thread/list of freindly vs. hostile borders? I'm having trouble keeping track.

For example:

-I've read both good and bad things about Kuala Lumpur- used to be bad? Now is good? Avoid the consulate for visas? Yet good to fly from?

-Poipot land crossing- Lawless? Needs a bribe? Avoid at all costs?

-Both BKK and DMK entries to be avoided?

-Chiang Mai entry freindly?

It's a good question. The answers are subjective, based on previous reports and subject to change. Here is my current (incomplete) take:

Bad airports in order of most to least bad: Krabi, Phuket, Don Muang, Suvarnabhumi

Other airports are not guaranteed to be OK, but we have not seen bad reports from them.

Bad land crossing: Poipet/Aranyaprathet

Land crossings that are OK, but may have hassles: Sadao, Padang Besar, Ranong

Excellent land crossings: Nong Khai, Mukdahan, Maesot

Other land crossings tend to be OK, but not notably friendly

 

Consulates where visas cannot usually be acquired: India (any), Japan (any), China (any)

Consulates to avoid: Phnom Penh, Singapore, Penang (for tourist visas), Seoul

Consulates currently believed OK: Vientiane, Savannakhet, Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi, Hong Kong, Yangon, Kuala Lumpur and Kota Bharu

 

No doubt, others will have their own views.

[Thailand Outcast]

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Rubbish. The truth about your thread is that you want have attention and cause worry. Pretty much similar to your other threads. Stop bashing Thailand. Move on. 

I have only started two threads, and I started them to ask questions for my own circumstances, which is also the circumstances of thousands of other people.  They are based on the acceptable frequency and duration of tourist visas, and should you be denied entry for the use of a tourist visa, the detention process, which is this thread. 

 

I am not bashing Thailand, just critical of the visa laws, which surely you would have to agree that "boarder shopping" is a ridiculous situation.  How long before certain consulates and boarders are overwhelmed?  We are seeing this now with a 2 week wait for one consulate.

 

I am also critical of no official policy on how many visa exempt stamps, and how many tourist visas one can have in year.  Do you think this would end a lot of people's concerns? 

 

I am also critical of the fact that what is ok for one immigration officer, is not ok for another officer, and you are detained.  Once again, no uniformity, and individual interpretation of visa laws.  It shouldn't be a lottery at a boarder.

 

I'm not as worried as the next person may be.  Someone with a family and property would be more concerned than me. My concerns, and their concerns, are real, and is not based on rumor, or fake news. 

 

It seems strange that you think gaining more knowledge in preparation for worse case scenario is a thread designed to cause worry.  Why shouldn't people be prepared for the worse? 

 

For me, with the knowledge I have gained from this thread, I loaded the apps from a few different airlines on my phone, and I plan to print out some available flights out of Thailand for the day I intend to enter, back to the country I flew in from. 

 

I have also visited a storage place and asked about their prices and process, and have spoken to a friend who is willing to help me should I be refused a tourist visa, or denied entry to Thailand.

 

I have also spoken to my Landlord, and explained the situation, and introduced them to my friend, and informed them to give my friend access. 

 

Do you think I do this to cause worry, or to be well prepared?

 

Isn't it you that directed me to a thread started by a person who was detained?  How can you say this thread was only started to cause worry?  People are being refused visas, or detained, in greater numbers, and more regularly now, and in my opinion, we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg now.  It's real, and people have genuine concerns about it.  As for seeking attention, you're joking, right?  

 

Why should I move on anywhere.  I have started two legitimate threads asking for information about my circumstances, and that of thousands of others.  You don't have to read them, so what's the point of attacking me?  

 

   

Edited March 18, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[JackThompson]

53 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

I am not bashing Thailand, just critical of the visa laws,

Clearly not.  If we didn't love Thailand, we would not bother with all this at all. 

I have seen some who do bash the Thai people as a group - which is despicable.  But pointing out that Immigration has a cancer in it, is not bashing the entirety of the country, or even the entirety of immigration.  I have met friendly IOs at some entry-points, and others report good ones exist at some immigration-offices.

 

It saddens me to be in a position where I can not, in good faith, recommend expats come to Thailand and spend their incomes here any more (at any age), other than for brief, occasional visits.  When I began posting on this forum, I was of the opinion that the problems could be "worked around" - and for now they can - but the trend has gone so negative, with regard to immigration's policies (official and unofficial), that has now become an irresponsible position to suggest anyone put down any roots here, because it appears "they could do anything, next." 

Again, sadly, I think that was the goal of the cult who is running this policy-shift - to drive the evil-farangs (who criticize lawlessness and corruption) out of "their" country (to spite their position being the opposite of what the vast majority of Thai people desire - most especially those we keep employed).

 

53 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

For me, with the knowledge I have gained from this thread, I loaded the apps from a few different airlines on my phone, and I plan to print out some available flights out of Thailand for the day I intend to enter, back to the country I flew in from. 

FYI: They usually demand the same airline be used for the return flight.

 

53 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

I have also spoken to my Landlord, and explained the situation, and introduced them to my friend, and informed them to give my friend access. 

Very good idea.  Always have a way to be sure someone can get your stuff to you, in case you are arbitrarily locked-out.

Edited March 19, 2019 by JackThompson

[Thailand Outcast]

10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Clearly not.  If we didn't love Thailand, we would not bother with all this at all. 

I have seen some who do bash the Thai people as a group - which is despicable.  But pointing out that Immigration has a cancer in it, is not bashing the entirety of the country, or even the entirety of immigration.  I have met friendly IOs at some entry-points, and others report good ones exist at some immigration-offices.

 

It saddens me to be in a position where I can not, in good faith, recommend expats come to Thailand and spend their incomes here any more (at any age), other than for brief, occasional visits.  When I began posting on this forum, I was of the opinion that the problems could be "worked around" - and for now they can - but the trend has gone so negative, with regard to immigration's policies (official and unofficial), that has now become an irresponsible position to suggest anyone put down any roots here, because it appears "they could do anything, next." 

Again, sadly, I think that was the goal of the cult who is running this policy-shift - to drive the evil-farangs (who criticize lawlessness and corruption) out of "their" country (to spite their position being the opposite of what the vast majority of Thai people desire - most especially those we keep employed).

 

FYI: They usually demand the same airline be used for the return flight.

 

Very good idea.  Always have a way to be sure someone can get your stuff to you, in case you are arbitrarily locked-out.

Good reply JT.

 

Yes, it is concerning for many.  After reading some other threads, my situation pales into insignificance, compared to others.  It must be causing a lot of stress for those with a family here.  I mean, some serious sleepless nights, not to mention the pressure it must put on a relationship. 

 

I must admit, initially, I thought it was the usual anti farang pre election rhetoric, but these visa changes appear to be backed up with genuine enforcement, so the problem for many is real, very real.

 

Once again, this is why I started this thread, for genuine and up to date information on the process, not for scare mongering.

 

Unfortunately, it's a process that many might find themselves going through in the future, including myself.    

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Thailand Outcast]

On 3/19/2019 at 6:17 AM, BritTim said:

It's a good question. The answers are subjective, based on previous reports and subject to change. Here is my current (incomplete) take:

Bad airports in order of most to least bad: Krabi, Phuket, Don Muang, Suvarnabhumi

Other airports are not guaranteed to be OK, but we have not seen bad reports from them.

Bad land crossing: Poipet/Aranyaprathet

Land crossings that are OK, but may have hassles: Sadao, Padang Besar, Ranong

Excellent land crossings: Nong Khai, Mukdahan, Maesot

Other land crossings tend to be OK, but not notably friendly

 

Consulates where visas cannot usually be acquired: India (any), Japan (any), China (any)

Consulates to avoid: Phnom Penh, Singapore, Penang (for tourist visas), Seoul

Consulates currently believed OK: Vientiane, Savannakhet, Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi, Hong Kong, Yangon, Kuala Lumpur and Kota Bharu

 

No doubt, others will have their own views.

I think there will be a problem in the future as word spreads of good boarder crossings and bad boarder crossings that people will go "boarder shopping." 

 

Eventually, the good boarders will be overcrowded and will either have huge queues, or purposely tighten up to discourage so many people from using that crossing. 

 

Does anyone have any information on entering by boat?  Maybe entering on a yacht.  Never done it before.

[rott]

On 3/16/2019 at 9:48 AM, DrJack54 said:

That has been suggested many times and I agree have simple set rules in place for those using tourist visas, visa exempt etc. One often mentioned is certain number of days per calendar year etc. At least folk would know exactly where they stand rather than play Russian roulette

But elvajero says that is like turkey looking forward to Christmas. He says best as It is because some/many do well out of it. Presumably those who are refused are just collateral damage.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, rott said:

On 3/16/2019 at 9:48 AM, DrJack54 said:

That has been suggested many times and I agree have simple set rules in place for those using tourist visas, visa exempt etc. One often mentioned is certain number of days per calendar year etc. At least folk would know exactly where they stand rather than play Russian roulette

But elvajero says that is like turkey looking forward to Christmas. He says best as It is because some/many do well out of it. Presumably those who are refused are just collateral damage.

It all depends on what those limits are.  The anti-farang clique would like something like 90-days total (recent report of IO claiming this was "the law") with no more than 14 days at a stretch (per report of "tourists only stay a week or two" quote).  They would probably eliminate "tourist visas" (with their "crazy, impossible" 60-day permitted stays) altogether, if they could.  If those were the new rules, then entry-point-roulette is "less bad."

On the flip side, they could simply require 10-days out before returning on a new TR Visa, which would make illegal working impossible for almost all, and weed out those who cannot afford 10-day stays/trips in foreign countries on top of the rent they are paying in Thailand.  The "blue stamp" visa runaround could also end.  Even a 3-mo in, 1 mo-out rule was something I would have accepted when I was using TR-Visas, as it would at least be predictable / no worries.

 

Of course, all these "must go out" schemes waste piles of money which could have been spent in Thailand.  A simple outsourcing-company based B-visa, dependent on paying taxes on a min-income would be the real "win win" solution.  Every 3 mo, you show up at immigration, present Thai tax-receipts, and get another 90-days for 1900 Baht (or even 5K Baht).  But, it's dreaming to think they would undermine the 'elite visa' scheme and 'agents' and the other rackets that line their pockets, with a policy that filled Thai tax-coffers AND injected billions of Baht of additional spending into the country - putting the good of the country first.