Falling Into The Vista Trap

[LtLOS]

Just a heads up on the lastest from Microworst, suggest you all stay with Linux, sounds like a real nightmare to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6407419.stm

LtLos

[penguin]

I don't know that anyone has to stick with Linux, just keep using XP for another six months or so and most driver issues should have been sorted. This was discussed on every computer forum prior to Vista being launched as it happens with every upgrade to Windows, remember SP2. Apart from getting a new graphics card my PC is Vista ready but XP runs well for me so l can't see the point in upgrading now when l know there will probably be issues.

[kayo]

I'm with penguin on this. And even the author of that article says it.. Wait. wait a bit more. Than get it when it's all ironed out.

That what I did with XP too.

And almost any new software. I often wait til it's sorted out before installing it myself.

[cdnvic]

Just a heads up on the lastest from Microworst, suggest you all stay with Linux, sounds like a real nightmare to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6407419.stm

LtLos

He's in a minority. Most of the reviews coming in have been quite good. Just a matter of using a PC that's ready for it. That being said "Nightmare" stories make better headlines.

[think_too_mut]

I'm with penguin on this. And even the author of that article says it.. Wait. wait a bit more. Than get it when it's all ironed out.

By then, probably, nobody will need a PC or operating system (at least not Vista) at all.

Remember those wi-fi 100$ laptops that are about to be released? No way their OS whatever it might be will cost more than few dollars.

For me, all I need is a device that connects me to the Internet. 4 years I haven't had any MS software installed on my home PC except XP Pro. No MS Word, PowerPoint, Excel, nothing, not even their replacements. Never needed them.

So, going together as "salt & pepper" overengineered and overfunctioned couple Vista and Office 2007 may hit the bin by me as they probably will by corporates and mass market. This was MS's last big product launch and chatastrophical and chaotic at that (just think of the delays and vista vouchers redemption). Time to sell off MS shares if you have them.

Good day Google and new ways of computing.

[nikster]

Just a heads up on the lastest from Microworst, suggest you all stay with Linux, sounds like a real nightmare to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6407419.stm

LtLos

He's in a minority. Most of the reviews coming in have been quite good. Just a matter of using a PC that's ready for it. That being said "Nightmare" stories make better headlines.

that depends on what you want to read. most reviews I have read ranged from "unacceptable" to "wait for SP 2".

the changes in Vista in short:

- prettier graphics

- way more annoying dialogs for everything and anything

- slower

- no improvements in security - as documented in dozens of websites out there. the problems range from the IE sandbox not really working to the UAC dialogs being completely useless because they happen too often to be meaningful.

- user interface more cumbersome than XP.

i think the short summary is: don't voluntarily upgrade to vista. you are not really missing anything, and you have to deal with all sorts of teething problems.

i have a shiny new vista ultimate on my d:\ drive and my machine runs it with an experience index of 4.8, e.g. all the bells and whistles. i find it unusable so I am sticking with XP.

[raslin]

So I'll stick to Windows 98 a bit longer then.

And if Vista won't run Amipro forget it!

[think_too_mut]

I don't know that anyone has to stick with Linux, just keep using XP for another six months or so and most driver issues should have been sorted. This was discussed on every computer forum prior to Vista being launched as it happens with every upgrade to Windows, remember SP2. Apart from getting a new graphics card my PC is Vista ready but XP runs well for me so l can't see the point in upgrading now when l know there will probably be issues.

It won't go down that easy for MS this time around. In the era of choice, people will not tolerate the artificially created gap - what they have at their desks and what works for them day in day out is a piece junk that would not run something that just turned up.

I don't remember a more blatant example of arrogance than that rubbish Microsoft provides to test "Vista readiness" of your existing and trusted hardware. That junk knows nothing about the existing world.

And operating systems are called that for a reason: they have to run your machine, not your machine to run them.

Wish MS stumbles badly over such a fundamental neglect of "customer experience".

Edited March 3, 2007 by think_too_mut

[cdnvic]

So I'll stick to Windows 98 a bit longer then.

And if Vista won't run Amipro forget it!

There are serious security flaws in 98 that aren't patched due to it being past the end of it's lifecycle. At the very least get a copy of 2000.

[nikster]

And operating systems are called that for a reason: they have to run your machine, not your machine to run them.

Wish MS stumbles badly over such a fundamental neglect of "customer experience".

It's stumbling, but it's so big that that will take a very long time. The company has no innovation and apparently now also lost it's ability to compete technology-wise. It depends on Windows and Office for most of its revenue and all of its profits, all other departments - including XBox - lose piles of money.

It won't affect the Vista roll out though - who is getting Vista? There is a handful of tech geeks - myself included - that want to see what it's like. But the vast majority - 100s of millions - of Windows XP users out there will not upgrade until they are forced to when buying a new machine.

MS will not sell XP OEM licenses anymore. So in a few years everyone will be running Vista - regardless of whether it's better or worse than XP.

From playing with a few Linux installs recently, I think this will not see mass adoption any time soon. There are some "issues" to resolve first and I don't see Linux developers having even any interests in resolving them. The Linux desktop now looks like Windows so no problems there. But the devil is in the detail - two examples:

1 - Not all hardware is supported. ATI or NVidia graphics cards need "evil" closed source drivers which most Linux distris don't include. Even if they are included they may not work. For Linux people, that's perfectly acceptable. For anyone else who just wants the stuff to work it's inconceivable. I have to do what?? to get my computer to work?

2 - Installers are a mess. A complete and utter mess. This ties into 1 - you can't just download an installer for your hardware. Each Linux distribution has different installers and installing software - not just drivers but all software - is not standardized between the distributions. It's insanity. It means that you can use whatever software is included in your distribution. If you want anything else, better be prepared to write your own installer. The way installers should work is demonstrated by Windows and OS X: Double click on an installer file and you are done. Not on Linux and as long as that isn't there, I don't see how it can achieve widespread acceptance.

[Guest Reimar]

nikster wrote:

the changes in Vista in short:

- prettier graphics

- way more annoying dialogs for everything and anything

- slower

- no improvements in security - as documented in dozens of websites out there. the problems range from the IE sandbox not really working to the UAC dialogs being completely useless because they happen too often to be meaningful.

- user interface more cumbersome than XP.

Just forget to mention that ,according to an research, only every 6. PC is able to run Vista! Or, as other sources says: 85% of all pc's and more than 90% of all Laptops are not possible to run Vista!

May this is a good time for Apple/Mac!

Comparing the two OS:

1.: Windows Vista different versions ranging from Baht 3,999 to Baht 19,900.00 (OEM and Original) US$ 99.00 til US$ 499.00

2.: OS-X Tiger one version USW$ 129.00 and Baht ~5,500.00 up

If you need to change your PC anyway, why not start to think to change top the Mac instead? May you pay a little more for the machine but getting th OS free and later upgardes are more cheap than from "Microworst"(nice titel and germans name it "Microschrott")!

As nikster wrote, and he's right with this one for enduser PC's, Linux isn't a reliable option. Linux is good for Webserver running Webapplications as well but for the enduser PC like a "toy" for to play. If you want to use Linux, you'll need to first to assign with one you want to use and than buy the hardware which is supported by your selection Linux.

Is as much "headache" as to deal with Vista!

[think_too_mut]

It won't affect the Vista roll out though - who is getting Vista? There is a handful of tech geeks - myself included - that want to see what it's like. But the vast majority - 100s of millions - of Windows XP users out there will not upgrade until they are forced to when buying a new machine.

MS will not sell XP OEM licenses anymore. So in a few years everyone will be running Vista - regardless of whether it's better or worse than XP.

That's where I see it different. People may not be forced into a new machine - or at least that machine would not need Vista.

It is now possible to make a device that will have a keyboard, display and do only 1 thing - boot off or into, say, Google. There, now locally stored contents, would live. Not only Google is working on getting that side right. Once that is sorted out, it's an end of the computing as we know it.

And MS and it's Vista could be lurking from a trash bin like Novell and their NetWare have been doing for several years now. Arrogant companies that once dominated passing technology.

[raslin]

So I'll stick to Windows 98 a bit longer then.

And if Vista won't run Amipro forget it!

There are serious security flaws in 98 that aren't patched due to it being past the end of it's lifecycle. At the very least get a copy of 2000.

Going to give 2000 a try in a few months when I get a new computer

Thanks

[solent01]

It won't affect the Vista roll out though - who is getting Vista? There is a handful of tech geeks - myself included - that want to see what it's like. But the vast majority - 100s of millions - of Windows XP users out there will not upgrade until they are forced to when buying a new machine.

MS will not sell XP OEM licenses anymore. So in a few years everyone will be running Vista - regardless of whether it's better or worse than XP.

That's where I see it different. People may not be forced into a new machine - or at least that machine would not need Vista.

It is now possible to make a device that will have a keyboard, display and do only 1 thing - boot off or into, say, Google. There, now locally stored contents, would live. Not only Google is working on getting that side right. Once that is sorted out, it's an end of the computing as we know it.

And MS and it's Vista could be lurking from a trash bin like Novell and their NetWare have been doing for several years now. Arrogant companies that once dominated passing technology.

I understand what you are saying, but I think if the user is a gamer like myself, the only real options available are MS operating systems, as 90% of the games are for these platforms, unless you just run a console of course in which case there is no need to worry at all.

[Rice_King]

This guy just built an entire "Vista capable" PC for $500. How to Build an inexpensive Vista PC (Aero enabled)

After reading the article, I cannot understand all the negative press I am reading about upgrading to Vista. Especially hardware issues. If this guy can build an ENTIRE "Vista-capable" PC for $500, then I am certain most could do it for a fraction by just uprading the mobo, graphics card, memory, etc..

True, this $500 PC isn't for the heavy gamers reading this. But as I see it, the only component(s) preventing it from becoming a decent game machine is the CPU and / or the graphics card.

At a minimum, if the "gaming" user can retain the Case, PS, Optical Drive(s), and Hard Drive(s), and use those funds to upgrade the graphics card and CPU (as listed in the article), they should be able to keep the cost close to $500.

Just my thoughts...

Edited March 3, 2007 by Rice_King

[penguin]

[think_too_mut]

True, this $500 PC isn't for the heavy gamers reading this. But as I see it, the only component(s) preventing it from becoming a decent game machine is the CPU and / or the graphics card.

At a minimum, if the "gaming" user can retain the Case, PS, Optical Drive(s), and Hard Drive(s), and use those funds to upgrade the graphics card and CPU (as listed in the article), they should be able to keep the cost close to $500.

Just my thoughts...

Vista capable does not mean "Designed for vista". One preview showed a laptop that had an additional screen visible when the main one is closed. It was small, embedded in the lid (like blackberry screen ) that you can use to quickly monitor your mails and going ons inside the machine. You can not build it today for any money and that just one of many extra functionalities the new machines would have. (Needed, wanted, used - another question).

MS spent 6 billion US$ in development of Vista (Airbus spent 10 billion in development of A-380) and it would be a joke if a hobbyst can ready the hardware in his garage for 500$. At least, it's not meant to be that way.

Gamers - I'm not among them - but XBox 360 would have been world's most powerful computer had it been released 10 years ago.

Edited March 4, 2007 by think_too_mut