UK Expats - Best SIPP provider?

[topt]

46 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Vestra

Pray tell do they have a minimum investment amount and how they base their charges?

[fletchsmile]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

ii charge 0% management fee, HL charges start at 0.45% on funds as i said before which was costing me thousands annually. Of course there are other ii charges which I'm ok with, they give you some credit for the charges to be used against trading. No idea about HL current charges haven't looked recently. Glad i left them, when i did they were ripping everyone off with that 0.45% fee for nothing. Good if they are able to get additional rebate, no idea if that's true or not. I checked the y share class on a fidelity fund and it was available at both HL and ii.

Worth you checking citywire forum, lots of people were discussing moving away from HL and to ii amongst others

Yes but you're not exactly giving people a fair picture when you say ii charge 0% and HL charges 0.45%

That's like saying HL charge no fixed fee but ii charge 240 for a SIPP

Both are misleading statements in isolation

 

I do read Citywire from time to time. Mainly articles on there, though, as the forum isn't exactly quality LOL

 

You can easily get sucked into forums. They're not necessarily representative of what's happening. The voices of a few whingers/ moaners often get picked up and echoed. Often it's negative people too outwieghing positives People then keep repeating stuff until it becomes "fact" LOL (bit like other areas on here really LOL)

 

When you say lots of people were discussing moving away from HL and to ii among others - as you heard it on a forum - you may well have been right. A "lot" of people probably were talking about it on a forum. Lot being say what: 10/20/30/40/50 posters?

 

Better to take forums with a pinch of salt, unless you know much about the quality of the posters, or at least do yourself a favour with a bit of research on the real stats in addition.

 

HL now has ball park to 40% of the platform market, that has actually increased in recent years. Margins have declined though, as the market is now more competitive.

 

So over a million people and growing must think they are doing something right even if a few dozed whingers on a Citywire forum don't. LOL

 

When you say they are "ripping everyone off" with a 0.45% charge, that sounds like something else picked up off a forum

 

I already said that I received more in loyalty bonuses than I paid out in platform fees in 2018.

 

A large factor behind that is I did my research and throughly costed my investments, even amending the way I did some things, to take advantage of where HL can be cheaper, and understanding what's going on.

 

For many people HL won't be the cheapest option. Sounds like you haven't fully researched ii and understood how it works though and the implications on all the funds you hold, particularly in a SIPP.

 

II does offer rebates. Generalising not always as generously as HL; not always the same range of investments either. AJ Bell tends to be less generous still.

 

In terms of quality HL is second to none. People need to do their homework though on costs.

 

Statements like "ii charges 0 and HL 0.45%", "HL rips people off", "lots of people are leaving HL" do no-one any favours with half-stories and inaccuracies.

Edited March 27, 2019 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

56 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Vestra - Hargreaves Lansdown are for the terminally lazy and very easily bettered

How much did Vestra pay you back for using their services last year, in excess of what you paid them?

[scubascuba3]

Yes but you're not exactly giving people a fair picture when you say ii charge 0% and HL charges 0.45%
That's like saying HL charge no fixed fee but ii charge 240 for a SIPP
Both are misleading statements in isolation
 
I do read Citywire from time to time. Mainly articles on there, though, as the forum isn't exactly quality LOL
 
You can easily get sucked into forums. They're not necessarily representative of what's happening. The voices of a few whingers/ moaners often get picked up and echoed. Often it's negative people too outwieghing positives People then keep repeating stuff until it becomes "fact" LOL (bit like other areas on here really LOL)
 
When you say lots of people were discussing moving away from HL and to ii among others - as you heard it on a forum - you may well have been right. A "lot" of people probably were talking about it on a forum. Lot being say what: 10/20/30/40/50 posters?
 
Better to take forums with a pinch of salt, unless you know much about the quality of the posters, or at least do yourself a favour with a bit of research on the real stats in addition.
 
HL now has ball park to 40% of the platform market, that has actually increased in recent years. Margins have declined though, as the market is now more competitive.
 
So over a million people and growing must think they are doing something right even if a few dozed whingers on a Citywire forum don't. LOL
 
When you say they are "ripping everyone off" with a 0.45% charge, that sounds like something else picked up off a forum
 
I already said that I received more in loyalty bonuses than I paid out in platform fees in 2018.
 
A large factor behind that is I did my research and throughly costed my investments, even amending the way I did some things, to take advantage of where HL can be cheaper, and understanding what's going on.
 
For many people HL won't be the cheapest option. Sounds like you haven't fully researched ii and understood how it works though and the implications on all the funds you hold, particularly in a SIPP.
 
II does offer rebates. Generalising not always as generously as HL; not always the same range of investments either. AJ Bell tends to be less generous still.
 
In terms of quality HL is second to none. People need to do their homework though on costs.
 
Statements like "ii charges 0 and HL 0.45%", "HL rips people off", "lots of people are leaving HL" do no-one any favours with half-stories and inaccuracies.

People on trustpilot seems quite happy with ii vs HL

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

People on trustpilot seems quite happy with ii vs HL

 

There's something deeply suspicious about those reviews.

 

(1) HL has far more customers than II, but only has 377 reviews, whilst II has 3,970.

 

(2) A large percentage of II reviews mentions individual customer service support staff by name.  It's almost as if someone has been paid to generate the reviews.

 

With these sites people tend only to post something when they are very dissatisfied with a product or service.  II has 516 bad reviews, HL, 150.  It would actually appear that there are a over three times more people dissatisfied with II than with HL, though the real situation is actually worse than that given HL's larger customer base.

 

Incidentally, I had a brokerage account with TrustNet which was acquired by II.  I have been dissatisfied with II - in particularly with the poor level of service and the frequent mistakes.  If I were able, I would have moved to a different broker already.

[scubascuba3]

 

There's something deeply suspicious about those reviews.

 

(1) HL has far more customers than II, but only has 377 reviews, whilst II has 3,970.

 

(2) A large percentage of II reviews mentions individual customer service support staff by name.  It's almost as if someone has been paid to generate the reviews.

 

With these sites people tend only to post something when they are very dissatisfied with a product or service.  II has 516 bad reviews, HL, 150.  It would actually appear that there are a over three times more people dissatisfied with II than with HL, though the real situation is actually worse than that given HL's larger customer base.

 

Incidentally, I had a brokerage account with TrustNet which was acquired by II.  I have been dissatisfied with II - in particularly with the poor level of service and the frequent mistakes.  If I were able, I would have moved to a different broker already.

I moved around 2015 to ii when there was a big trend of people moving away from HL because of their Fund charges, this may have changed since i haven't compared because I'm happy with ii.

 

ii was always about costs, because of their lower costs they couldn't provide the same level of customer service experience as HL, most people realise that. If you rarely call HL you don't need it either. Would be interesting if the op does a comparison what his conclusion is especially on the Fund charges issue. I'm not looking to move, so not planning to look in detail.

 

In the one fidelity fund i looked into both HL and ii had the Y share class. HL charge 0.45% on fund value, ii 0%. So if they give a rebate back they are just giving some of your money back

 

[scubascuba3]

 

 

 

 

  There's something deeply suspicious about those reviews.

 

 

 

With trustpilot it is important to filter out reviews which distort the real figure, insurance and water companies are terrible for having distorted high ratings. Example is Economy Energy was 4-5* but went into administration / taken over due to shoddy working practices.

 

ii aren't great at transitioning SIPPs and holdings over from HL or anywhere else probably because they are swamped. People transferring need to check carefully, holdings, quantities, book costs and prices. Mine were all correct except book cost which they didn't seem to care about

 

 

 

[topt]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

ii was always about costs, because of their lower costs they couldn't provide the same level of customer service experience as HL, most people realise that. If you rarely call HL you don't need it either.

I think I made the point on page 1 of this thread but to be clear since it seems to have been ignored......

 

I have held both HL and II (actually TD Waterhouse which was taken over by II) for quite a long time. 

 

II seem to have more a focus on costs as you say and have also recently abolished exit fees (which appears to be in advance of potential legislation to get all platforms to do so) so good on them and could be important for some people.

At a headline level II always appear cheaper and HL relatively more expensive and this is shown on most comparison tools. However as @fletchsmile mentions this depends on the overall value and more significantly what investments you hold in your portfolio and how much you trade.

 

For example if you hold mainly Investment Trusts and or shares then the .45% charge at HL is capped at differing amounts on their SIPP and ISA. As I mentioned if you go into drawdown then II seems to have additional charges over HL. 

 

Charges generally have reduced over the last few years however at the end of the day everybody's needs are different. 

 

Then the other question is how do you value the service? For some people this will be more important and won't mind paying a bit extra for. You are happy with II as you say you hardly need to speak to them. When I have a query I use the secure email first and here I can directly compare. On even a simple general question II were woefully slow to respond on several occasions and once never replied at all. Similar questions to HL have always been replied to promptly. 

 

This raises some questions in my mind re the admin on a SIPP/drawdown. The service aspect has also been praised by a number of other earlier posters.

 

I also find the II interface clunky compared to HL but that may just be me and I know they have been working on it.

 

Unfortunately for the OP @roger buttmore I have no personal experience of AJ Bell but repeat that, based on what I have read in the past, they appear to receive good reviews overall.

 

In conclusion people should look at all the costs involved to see which will be best for their specific needs - including whether they can actually open as an expat.......... 

 

[scubascuba3]

For example if you hold mainly Investment Trusts and or shares then the .45% charge at HL is capped at differing amounts on their SIPP and ISA. As I mentioned if you go into drawdown then II seems to have additional charges over HL. 

I don't think HL charge a % fee such as 0.45% on investment trusts and shares? if they do that's a change within the last couple years?

That's why many HL customers switched from holding Funds to Investment Trusts

[topt]

24 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

I don't think HL charge a % fee such as 0.45% on investment trusts and shares? if they do that's a change within the last couple years?

 

Why don't you look up the facts before posting. For a fund and share account correct but I said for ISAs and Sipps. - 

ISA - https://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/isa/savings-interest-rates-and-charges

 

Quote

Shares

Including UK and overseas shares, investment trusts, exchange-traded funds, VCTs, gilts and bonds.

0.45%

capped at £45 per year

SIPP - 

Quote

Shares

Including UK and overseas shares, investment trusts, exchange-traded funds, VCTs, gilts and bonds.

0.45%

capped at £200 per year

 

32 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

That's why many HL customers switched from holding Funds to Investment Trusts

I would be interested to know your source for this statement?

[scubascuba3]

 

 

 

I would be interested to know your source for this statement?

 

As already mentioned try Citywire forum, more knowledgeable investors there than this forum and they don't want to argue all the time like people on this forum.

 

"Why don't you look up the facts before posting"

 

That's why it was a question you fool. I'm not that interested in HL charges anymore as I've left, only that what you said sounded fishy and different to when i had my investments there.

 

[bouph12]

19 hours ago, Oxx said:

It's not churning and they make no money from it.

 

HL simply ensures that investors are invested in the lowest cost version of a fund available.  Sometimes new classes of a fund are issued, or HL negotiates a special discount and does the decent thing to ensure the existing funds are transferred to the new class.

The faulty quote function didn't include the post that was being replied to. Had it done so, it would have been clear that it was AJ Bell who moved me into a lower cost class of fund.

Not HL.

[fletchsmile]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

As already mentioned try Citywire forum, more knowledgeable investors there than this forum and they don't want to argue all the time like people on this forum.

 

"Why don't you look up the facts before posting"

 

That's why it was a question you fool. I'm not that interested in HL charges anymore as I've left, only that what you said sounded fishy and different to when i had my investments there.

 

People are arguing with you because you're wrong or at best incomplete a lot of the time. Sorry, but your posts are full of half facts and inaccuracies, and what you think you can remember reading ????

 

[fletchsmile]

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I moved around 2015 to ii when there was a big trend of people moving away from HL because of their Fund charges, this may have changed since i haven't compared because I'm happy with ii.

....

Are you making this stuff up as you go along? or is it the dozens of people you read on Citywire again

 

As mentioned HL's share of platform business has been growing in recent years.

 

Their number of clients (all not just platform) has been growing too. In 2014 - 2018 there was net new client growth in all years. The rate of net growth did slow a little in 2015, but it was still a trend of people becoming a client rather than moving away:

 

https://www.hl.co.uk/investor-relations/key-financial-data

 

Quote from investors chronicle - few months old now, but still relevant

 

Quote

The numbers speak for themselves. HL is taking market share in the investor platform market and has more than doubled its customer base since 2013. Its customer retention rate for the year to June 2018 was 94.3 per cent and has been consistently high. These are the hallmarks of a business with a big moat.

 

The article is worth a read BTW for anyone looking at HL as one of ther options, even though is more an article on whether the shares are a buy or not.

 

It also touches on fees. They mention discounts though unfortunately don't go into it quantify it much which could have been useful

 

https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/comment/2018/10/18/how-big-is-hargreaves-lansdown-s-moat/

 

BTW When you talk of paying "thousands more per year", my educated guess would be that you're just managing to scrape an "s" on the end of the word thousand LOL

 

and you really didn't do your homework on HL's fee structures

 

Someone with a 1 million fund would likely pay at worst GBP 3k p.a. with HL

 

That would be if they picked all unit trusts/OEICs and did absolutely no reserach on the loyalty bonuses they could achieve to reduce that 3k figure, as well as being unfortunate enough to pick all funds that had no loyalty bonus so they get no automatic credits to offset their fees.

 

Had you done your homework:

 

- you could be paying as little as 200 pounds by choosing investment trusts. On a 1 million portfolio That's cheaper than ii's SIPP flat fee of 240 pounds on a 50k or 100k portfolio

 

- That average 0.3% cost on 1 milion, can be significantly reduced via loyalty bonuses if you chose the right unit trusts. eg there are many quality funds were the loyalty bonus can average 0.2X % So net net the effective cost is less than 0.1% on 1 million

 

If you start picking funds like RL Sterling extra yield with a 0.43% saving/ rebate it improves further

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by fletchsmile

[HauptmannUK]

For the past couple of years I have used AJ Bell.  Charges seem ok to me, insofar as I am able to compare with other providers, and customer service had been beyond reproach.

[1DegreeN]

I transferred my SIPP to AJ Bell, a few years back when I was living in Singapore. They had no problem with me being non-UK resident and know that I am now in Thailand. Nothing bad to say about them.

[Antiparovian]

Hargreaves Lansdown. Have to appear to be a UK resident. Use a VPN, have a UK address. Good idea to be on the Electoral Register and be on the list of a General Practitioner ie have an NHS number. Have UK bank accounts to do transactions with. Also can make use of ISA allowances with HL.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Antiparovian
added extra

[Oxx]

45 minutes ago, Antiparovian said:

Hargreaves Lansdown. Have to appear to be a UK resident. Use a VPN, have a UK address. Good idea to be on the Electoral Register and be on the list of a General Practitioner ie have an NHS number. Have UK bank accounts to do transactions with. Also can make use of ISA allowances with HL.

So much deceit and criminality in a single post!

[topt]

3 hours ago, Oxx said:

So much deceit and criminality in a single post!

I don't see anything illegal (depending on the use of) apart from his last statement which personally I also think is wrong -

 

4 hours ago, Antiparovian said:

Also can make use of ISA allowances with HL.

Have often wondered what would happen if someone was discovered paying in when they are not supposed to. Tax evasion I guess? 

[Oxx]

13 minutes ago, topt said:

I don't see anything illegal (depending on the use of) apart from his last statement which personally I also think is wrong

I need to spell it out?

 

Fraudently claiming to be UK resident to open an account.  Fraudulently being on the electoral register.  Fraudulently being registered with a GP.  Fraudulently making use of an ISA allowance.

[topt]

5 minutes ago, Oxx said:

I need to spell it out?

 

Fraudently claiming to be UK resident to open an account.  Fraudulently being on the electoral register.  Fraudulently being registered with a GP.  Fraudulently making use of an ISA allowance.

No because you did not read what he actually said and what I said. Not sure why I am defending him but apart from the ISA you are the one linking intent to his suggestions.

As far as I know I am still registered with my GP - are you calling me a criminal because I have not bothered to tell them I moved?

[roger buttmore]

Just thought I'd give an update on my position now, some 4 months later and 3 months of live DIY investing down the road.

 

I chose to use AJ Bell in the end and opened an account prior to visiting the UK during mid-April earlier this year. Of the 5 pensions being moved two landed into my SIPP account on 1st May and the third by the 7th. One I chose not to move afterall was a 'with profits' security plan with Phoenix Life, the Risk Warning changed my mind. The fifth and final pension is amazingly still pending, but will hopefully be transerred any time soon. It is held with Towers Watson/Moneybee, a shower of anally attentive <deleted> if ever I've smelt one, creating obstacles and seemingly building new ones as the first are overcome. Can't wait to have nothing to do with them ever again. Fortunately it only accounts for about 7% of my total portfolio.

 

Looking on the bright side, I was almost £15k up after 3 months until the FED decided to decrease US interest rates by just 0.25% so it's now settled down as the hopes for further cuts dispersed, but no biggie, it had a nice run. I'm also a little surprised how well my UK investments have done during this time too, up almost 8%, despite more firm signs of a no deal Brexit by Boris.

 

I began at a good time in the market, so I was fairly fortunate. A few months earlier would have been nicer, but 6 months earlier I'd have been in tears ????

 

I considered pound cost averaging/drip feeding my funds into the market, but instead took a deep breath and invested pretty much all of it during the first few weeks. I've tweaked a bit, sold a few I decided I didn't like and bought a few others I preferred. Made a few mistakes but so far I haven't sold anything at a loss. Beginners luck, perhaps, but I did a lot of research prior, but you can't beat having your own skin in the game to bring more detailed research into focus.

Edited August 1, 2019 by roger buttmore