Trump says vote on healthcare can wait until after 2020 election

[EVENKEEL]

9 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Remember not so long ago how McDonald's was advising its full time employees how to get food stamps? The minimum wage being so low that even full time workers qualified.

 

9 hours ago, mikebike said:

Employment figures mask the fact that tens of millions of working families live below the poverty line.

 

Are you as miserly with your own family?

 

If we are exchanging subjective stories, I retired 14 yrs ago, in my 40s, happily payed taxes, enjoyed socialized medicine and what my taxes helped accomplish for everyone else...

In the USA we don't believe in Socialism period. That's what's made us the great nation we are. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

 

In the USA we don't believe in Socialism period. That's what's made us the great nation we are. 

 

So you're planning to forfeit your Social Security and Medicare benefits when you get to the eligible age, right?  Because we don't believe in Socialism, period....

 

And the government provided safety net of Social Security and Medicare that has helped keep generations of Americans out of poverty in their senior years hasn't played any role in making us the great nation we are... period...

 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So you're planning to forfeit your Social Security and Medicare benefits when you get to the eligible age, right?  Because we don't believe in Socialism, period....

 

And the government provided safety net of Social Security and Medicare that has helped keep generations of Americans out of poverty in their senior years hasn't played any role in making us the great nation we are... period...

 

 

 

None of that was free, I paid my dues. I'm still paying my dues. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

None of that was free, I paid my dues. I'm still paying my dues. 

 

Assuming you don't die prematurely, you're likely to get far more back in benefits than you, and/or your employers, paid into the system over your lifetime.

 

Quote

 

Conservatives argued that the Social Security Act placed the United States on the road to socialism.

...

Despite these criticisms, the Social Security Act introduced a new era in American history. It committed the government to a social welfare role by providing for elderly, disabled, dependent, and unemployed Americans. By doing so, the act greatly expanded the public's sense of entitlement and the support people expected government to give to all citizens.

 

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3446

 

Quote

...because the American government plays such a dominant role in the U.S. Social Security system – deciding how much and when employees and employers pay into the system, how much individuals receive in benefits when they get them, and preventing almost everyone from opting out – it seems fair to call the Social Security program a form of socialism. The program requires workers and their employers, along with self-employed individuals, to pay into the system throughout their working years. The government controls the money they contribute, and decides when and how much they get back after – and if – they reach retirement age.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/122916/are-social-security-benefits-form-socialism.asp

 

Go ahead, turn your back on the U.S.'s own form of the dreaded "Socialism"!!!

 

 

[mooping20Baht]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

 

In the USA we don't believe in Socialism period. That's what's made us the great nation we are. 

keep an open mind,  being in debt ,  which most americans are is  not "being free" ....... NYC has 65k homeless, 70k empty luxury apartments ..... this polarization is to be expected with the loss of the middle class,   'there but by the grace of god go you' .......   or in "muslim"   inshallah

 

 

 

 Attempts to save economic life by inoculating it with virus from the corpse of nationalism result in blood poisoning which bears the name of fascism.     on mussolini ......

 

 

[bristolboy]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

 

In the USA we don't believe in Socialism period. That's what's made us the great nation we are. 

Actually, when Medicare was proposed, it was denounced as something that Karl Marx would have approved of by none other than Ronald Reagan. And he was right. Medicare is a Socialstic program. ANd the same goes for Social Security where the benefits of the poorer recipients are subsidized by the wealthier ones.

[mikebike]

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

 

In the USA we don't believe in Socialism period. That's what's made us the great nation we are. 

In the USA we don't believe in socialism for regular folk who need help. We do however believe in extreme socialism for corporations including billions of our tax dollars. That's what made us the nation which legalized corporations as "people".

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Actually, when Medicare was proposed, it was denounced as something that Karl Marx would have approved of by none other than Ronald Reagan. And he was right. Medicare is a Socialstic program. ANd the same goes for Social Security where the benefits of the poorer recipients are subsidized by the wealthier ones.

Do you or have you paid into social security and medicare for the US? Because so many on this forum are from various European countries and have no idea of our deductions each month to pay for these programs.

 

Be careful with wanting social medicine, true social medicine where the government tells you what medical care you are to receive. If we were to have a gov. medical system for ALL, one where a hard working man gets the same care as a slouch who chooses not to work. You will loose all say in your care. 

 

 

[attrayant]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Be careful with wanting social medicine, true social medicine where the government tells you what medical care you are to receive.

 

 

There's the catch.  Be careful of the scary version of socialism that you have rigidly defined.  Anything else isn't "true social medicine". Stop trying to reframe the issue.  Healthcare was a disaster in the past, has markedly improved under the ACA but still needs a lot of improvements going forward.  See: practically every other country in the free world.

[attrayant]

Bottom line: show us the Trump Healthcare plan that, according to Trump's own words, "is much better than Obamacare" [note Trump's use of the present tense] and also according to Trump's words, doesn't exist yet.

 

 

[bristolboy]

17 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Do you or have you paid into social security and medicare for the US? Because so many on this forum are from various European countries and have no idea of our deductions each month to pay for these programs.

 

Be careful with wanting social medicine, true social medicine where the government tells you what medical care you are to receive. If we were to have a gov. medical system for ALL, one where a hard working man gets the same care as a slouch who chooses not to work. You will loose all say in your care. 

 

 

So you're saying that America should have a system more like these other countries? Which charge far less for healthcare?

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 8:56 PM, mike324 said:

Come on Trump supporters now, what has he accomplish? I really fail to see a single thing he did that is actually benefiting American citizens as a whole? 

 

 

There is zero that will benefit ALL American citizens, but he achieved TWO SCOTUS judges and is getting the wall built ( or at least parts of it ). Also managed to emasculate Obamacare and done something on immigration.

He benefitted some by scrapping ( hopefully ) the PTT agreement

He needs to do more, but might have to wait to see if the GOP takes back the house in 2020.

 

Given the constant attacks on him by the Dems, the Mueller investigation and some ?most of the GOP members being against him, it's a wonder he achieved anything at all. I wouldn't blame him if he muttered something like "a plague on both your houses" and spent the next 2 years playing golf.

Edited April 4, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[bristolboy]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

There is zero that will benefit ALL American citizens, but he achieved TWO SCOTUS judges and is getting the wall built ( or at least parts of it ). Also managed to emasculate Obamacare and done something on immigration.

He benefitted some by scrapping ( hopefully ) the PTT agreement

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-03/france-reaps-brexit-benefits-as-u-k-investments-rise-chart

He needs to do more, but might have to wait to see if the GOP takes back the house in 2020.

 

Given the constant attacks on him by the Dems, the Mueller investigation and some ?most of the GOP members being against him, it's a wonder he achieved anything at all. I wouldn't blame him if he muttered something like "a plague on both your houses" and spent the next 2 years playing golf.

And which of these accomplishment aren't something that standard right wing Republicans have a problem with? The Scotus judges he selected, approved of by the Federalist society, will be anti-worker and pro corporations, just as the other conservative justices have usually been.

He has tried to emasculate Obamacare and failed. Despite his best attempts at discouraging registration, the level of participation is only slight off from the previous high. And 123 million Americans with pre-existing conditions are still benefiting. As are 60 million Medicare patients who won't have to pay for prescriptions. As well as the 13 million expanded Medicare beneficiaries.

And if by "He benefitted some by scrapping ( hopefully ) the PTT agreement" the "some" you are referring to is the Chinese, you are 100% correct. 

Do you have any use for facts at all?

 

[attrayant]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is zero that will benefit ALL American citizens, but he achieved TWO SCOTUS judges

 

He put a checkmark next to a name on a list of candidates that was put in front of him.  That's a low bar for accomplishments.

 

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and is getting the wall built ( or at least parts of it ).

 

No wall construction has begun.  Zero.

 

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Also managed to emasculate Obamacare

 

The ACA is wildly popular, and getting more popular by the day.  In the furthest stretchings of my imagination I cannot see how harming such a popular program is an accomplishment.

 

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and done something on immigration.

 

I can just see the question coming up in the job interview:

 

Voters: what have you done about immigration?

Trump: something.

 

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He benefitted some by scrapping (hopefully) the PTT agreement

 

Here, let me fix that for you: He benefited China by scrapping the PTT.

 

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't blame him if he muttered something like "a plague on both your houses" and spent the next 2 years playing golf.

 

Sure, why not since he spent the last two years doing that.

[Thainesss]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And 123 million Americans with pre-existing conditions are still benefiting.

The fakest of fake news, and extremely infuriating. 

 

Are you an American whos partaking in this system? 

[Thainesss]

4 minutes ago, attrayant said:

The ACA is wildly popular,

 

Lie. Complete and total lie. That makes you a liar. 

[attrayant]

1 minute ago, Thainesss said:

 

Lie. Complete and total lie. That makes you a liar. 

 

I seem to have touched a nerve.  You could have offered some kind of informed rebuttal, or your could have use a personal attack.  I wonder why you chose the second option?

 

New Fox News Poll: Obamacare’s Popularity Is at an All Time High

 

Granted, phrases like "all time high" and "wildly popular" are subjective.  Phrases like "complete and total lie" are not.  So you need to back that up.

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Lie. Complete and total lie. That makes you a liar. 

No, it doesn't make him a liar. I will forbear from saying what it makes you.

"In fact, more Americans support the Affordable Care Act now than in October 2018, weeks before the midterms. According to a Kaiser Family Foundation tracking poll, net support for the ACA has increased from plus-7% to plus-11% since the midterm elections."

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/doug-schoen-trumps-move-to-end-obamacare-will-help-democrats-get-more-votes-in-2020

https://www.kff.org/health-reform/poll-finding/kff-health-tracking-poll-march-2019/

[mikebike]

55 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Be careful with wanting social medicine, true social medicine where the government tells you what medical care you are to receive.

I’m curious about this. Can you point me to the country whose government tells it citizens exactly what health care they receive?

[mikebike]

57 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

If we were to have a gov. medical system for ALL, one where a hard working man gets the same care as a slouch who chooses not to work. You will loose all say in your care. 

Curious again.

 

How many people in the USA do you believe make an active decision not to work?

 

Also, what is the correlation between someone choosing not to work and someone else loosing their say in their own healthcare? I’m not seeing it. Are the “slouches” really that powerful that they affect your ability to make your way in life? 

[mikebike]

44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is zero that will benefit ALL American citizens...

How does a Medicare-for-all, or similar, not benefit all Americans?

[bristolboy]

20 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Lie. Complete and total lie. That makes you a liar. 

And Fox News, too.

[mike324]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is zero that will benefit ALL American citizens, but he achieved TWO SCOTUS judges and is getting the wall built ( or at least parts of it ).

Appointing judges shouldn't be seen as an achievement, its something all POTUS do. Building a wall is great, securing the country is great. But he has been lying saying that nothing has been done, with the 2006 Secure Fence Act, hundreds of miles of walls has been built in the past 10 years. We do not need to tear those walls down just to build a bigger and higher wall. Dems were going to give him over 20 billion, now he can't even get 1 billion because he is not a team player. And this has resulted in political squandering back and forth.

 

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Also managed to emasculate Obamacare and done something on immigration.

He benefitted some by scrapping ( hopefully ) the PTT agreement

He needs to do more, but might have to wait to see if the GOP takes back the house in 2020.

Obamcare isn't great, but its better than nothing. Obama even said its far from it, and ask Republicans to propose something. Again if Republicans have something better, why not propose it. They have been ignoring the issue on purpose. You can't deny Obamacare has saved countless lives at the cost of those who has to pay more.

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given the constant attacks on him by the Dems, the Mueller investigation and some ?most of the GOP members being against him, it's a wonder he achieved anything at all. 

He can't achieve anything because he is not a team player, he can't say anything that makes sense even to his own party. He doesn't know the laws and how things work. To him its my way or the highway. So how does anyone even deal with him? No wonder so many folks are giving him the time out.

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He benefitted some by scrapping ( hopefully ) the PTT agreement

From what I understand TPP will benefit everyone involved, it pushes countries to lower the taxes. From what I can see its Asian countries that have high taxes on imported goods, with TPP American goods can be more competitive. Not only that, there are provisions regarding to IP which will also benefit the US by having TPP members come together and fight against countries such as China. Correct me if I'm wrong, and let me know how TPP will hurt the US more than it will benefit from it?

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

Curious again.

 

How many people in the USA do you believe make an active decision not to work?

 

Also, what is the correlation between someone choosing not to work and someone else loosing their say in their own healthcare? I’m not seeing it. Are the “slouches” really that powerful that they affect your ability to make your way in life? 

I asked once before and I ask again. Have you lived, worked, paid taxes or do you sit behind a keyboard as a citizen of a different country.

 

And, yes folks do make decisions not to work when the benefits of not working outweigh the benefits of an honest living. Free medical for all will surely increase this number.

[mikebike]

41 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I asked once before and I ask again. Have you lived, worked, paid taxes or do you sit behind a keyboard as a citizen of a different country.

 

And, yes folks do make decisions not to work when the benefits of not working outweigh the benefits of an honest living. Free medical for all will surely increase this number.

I am Canadian but have lived, worked, and payed taxes in 5 different countries, including the USA. I think that gives me a reasonable perspective. But i fail to see the relavence of the question. You didn't have to be German to understand the shortcomings of Nazi Germany. Or South African to understand the failing of apartied policy.

 

Of course reasonable, rational people would choose not to work when the benefits of not working outweigh the benefits of earning a living. It's just I haven't seen any evidence of this being an option in many families other than the super-wealthy.

[bumofdabeach]

Except for social security, Medicare, the VA and a few other 'social programs.

In the USA we don't believe in Socialism period. That's what's made us the great nation we are. 

Sent from my SM-J250F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bristolboy]

On 4/4/2019 at 12:10 PM, EVENKEEL said:

I asked once before and I ask again. Have you lived, worked, paid taxes or do you sit behind a keyboard as a citizen of a different country.

 

And, yes folks do make decisions not to work when the benefits of not working outweigh the benefits of an honest living. Free medical for all will surely increase this number.

Considering how the Republicans fared in the midterms, and how unpopular their position on health care is, did you ever think that you might be in the minority on this issue?