Global Warming - How Real Is It?

[peter991]

I was watching a show on Australian TV last night about global warming and what individuals can do to slow the process. One of the facts that I found scary is that more than 100 million people live within 3 feet (1 metre) of mean sea level and it is predicted if trends continue that global sea levels could rise by more than 20 feet with the loss of shelf ice in Greenland and Antarctica.

This is relevant to Thailand as a lot of the country is only a few feet above sea-level.

My question: Is the topic of global warming on the agenda for Thai people?

In today's news, the Inuit people in the Artic are running out of snow!

Peter

[tijnebijn]

Good point you got there Pete,I don not think the thai feel yet to much in danger.They should ,the climate is getting dryer,less rain or to much in one time coming down.Although i think if the sea really rises like it could .The West of Europe like the netherlands and parts of England will be in big trouble.But they got some backup thoughts allready,they see things change and things are getting more and more to reality.

I feel and think it(climate change )will show more quickly then most think and the world should make abrupt changes to any policy.If not taken thoughts in account the Thais,as usual will suffer a lot of pain in the ass,they are just being to busy right now with the politicall world and these huge problems what are involved in.I hope somebody will see the light.Everybody keep dry!

[cclub75]

My question: Is the topic of global warming on the agenda for Thai people?

I'm not a fan of GreenPeace, but anyway, one of their conclusions regarding global warming and sea level : "If current warming trends continue, cities like London, Bangkok and New York will end up below sea level – displacing millions and causing massive economic damage. "

"It is not only small island states that need to worry about sea level rise. More than 70 percent of the world's population lives on coastal plains, and 11 of the world's 15 largest cities are on the coast or estuaries."

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/ca.../sea_level_rise

So... i think this question, even on a pure theoretical point of view, should be on the thai agenda...

Edited March 5, 2007 by cclub75

[Neeranam]

My question: Is the topic of global warming on the agenda for Thai people?

[Ling Kae]

Global warming is for real, it will affect everyone.

Trouble is when a couple of the richest nations in the world (USA and Australia) won't ratify the Kyoto Protocol then what chance has anyone trying to convince a poor country like Thailand to do anything about it?

Read all about it here.

[PhilHarries]

Several searching questions you've asked.

How real is it?

Despite all the data, nobody really knows. The world's weather and climates are cyclical and has been since the earliest of times. All it takes is for a hotter than average summer in the UK, or wetter than average winter, and the gloom and doom merchants are running around squawking "global warming, global warming, global warming.............we're all doomed". However it is fairly certain that all of our fossil fuel burning activities are not having a positive effect on the planet, but the only question is what percentage of the effect is purely down to us?

Will, assuming the worst predictions come to fruition, it affect our lives in Thailand?

Only if you live near the coast and intend to live a few hundred years. The "near the coast" bit is a bit flippant as a sea level increase of one metre will flood large areas of Bangkok causing a mass migration inland but the hundred years is the sort of time scale we are talking about. However just 'cos it aint gonna affect us personally doesn't mean we shouldn't take the threat seriously.

What can we do to stall or reverse the effect?

Simple, consume less. Drive the car less, turn the a/c down or even off, turn the lights off if you don't need them. We all know, or should do, what we should be doing. I think it is as much, or probably more, a thing for the big corporations to consider more than us individuals. How many offices in Bangkok have all their lights blazing into the night?

Is it on the Thai's agenda.

Sadly, from my experience, the education and public information system in Thailand does not raise the issue sufficiently and on top of that it's the mai phen rai attitude. Look at the fine mesh used in fishing the sea, food on the table today, tomorrow may never come. But it's not just Thailand, a lot of western countries are just not taking enough notice of the trends.

Anyway, in my opinion, there's a bigger problem facing the world than global warming, one that will hit sooner and cause many more conflicts than oil reserves. That problem is one of clean safe drinking water. We can live without oil, we cannot live without water.

[alexth]

Maybe if the yanks would stop all these wars and all their s*it all over the globe, we could all eventually live on this planet. I remember that in Romania after the was in Serbia, fishermen were halfed since there wasn't that much fish in the Danube Delta same as it was, we almost ran out of snow, we started having way too much warmer temperatures and many other exaples of things turning upside-down and that wasn't such a bigg mess as many other places.

[solent01]

alexth, I think turning this thread into "Septic" bashing is a little unfair, after all, being English I am very much aware of how my country also goes to arms with America, on the pretence of saving the world from terrorists and weapons of mass destruction, when in reality its all about oil and global dominance.

Its my understanding that global warming is as natural as the sun rising in the morning, however we may be accelerating the effect.

Queue the flames........

[alexth]

...however we may be accelerating the effect.

And who is accelerating it? And why? I'm not trying to start a bashing thread, it's just facts. Google and see who are the first contributors to the global warming and than tell me who is the first to blame.

[jumnien]

Rising sea levels pose a huge threat to the elite and powerful who own much of the expensive coastal land. Most of the land just a few kilometers inland, which will be very expensive if present trends continue, is owned by relatively poor farmers. This climatic change may entail the largest tranfer of wealth from the rich to the poor in human history. There are many groups organizing to stifle this trend.

[solent01]

Well ok, if we are going to point fingers I think you will find the Chinese are also not too clean.

[PhilHarries]

Sorry alexth, I fail to see a significany connection between wars and global warming exept for the exhaust gases of F-117's and a bit of guff from the ordnance. Nor do I see war affecting the numbers of fish in the Danube delta, that's down to overfishing fuelled by greed. Global warming is largely, but not entirely, about consumption of energy created by the combustion of hydrocarbons. Until the human race, largely the western countries, start to take actions to reduce energy consumption nothing will change but we individuals can make a small start.

Do you:-

have lights on in unoccupied rooms in your house?

have the a/c set at 15C when 20 would be just as comfortable or OFF could be tolerable?

drive 500m to the local shop when you could walk?

have the television twittering away to itself when nobody is particularly watching it?

Each of those, in itself, is insignificant but multiplied by 60 million makes a difference. There are many other ways we could, as individuals, make small sacrifices which will probably have no effect save to relieve our concience.

[toptuan]

I personally have ignored the global warming phenomenon until I moved to Thailand.

Now, as I sweat through another Isaan summer, I continually have Thai friends, 40 years and older, tell me that the summers are so much hotter now compared to the "good old days." With only 4 years under my belt in Thailand, even I noticed that cool, refreshing "winter" was distressingly short this year.

My older Thai friends and the weather now have my attention.

Edited March 5, 2007 by toptuan

[banchang]

I have never realy understood how floating ice at the poles that displaces its own weight in water will add to the level of the sea when it melts.

Also how much has the sea level risen over the past hundred years of industrialisation, There are trig points on the cook islands that were put there by captin cook 200 years ago to record the sea level , they still show the sea at the same level now.

[farangsay]

I have never realy understood how floating ice at the poles that displaces its own weight in water will add to the level of the sea when it melts.

Also how much has the sea level risen over the past hundred years of industrialisation, There are trig points on the cook islands that were put there by captin cook 200 years ago to record the sea level , they still show the sea at the same level now.

The theory is that the large volume of ice sitting on top of the land mass

of Antarctica melts and runs off into the oceans. That would affect sea

level. But whether it is happening to any significant extent is difficult to

ascertain from the mass of conflicting opinions. Keep your waterwings

handy just in case.

[GuestHouse]

Environmentalism = The New Religion.

It has high priests (and priestesses) preaching that doom is on the way and that only they know how you should live your life.

It has moral codes, written by the high priests/priestesses.

It has undeniable truths, of which any attempt to deny is a heresy.

It has guilt.. oh the guilt… the guilt.

It has fundamentalist willing to kill for the cause.

Who was it that said, when people stop believing in God, they’ll start believing in Anything.

[churchill]

Every day there is a new report saying we are heading to disaster - but what can be done - If the Bush doesn't believe it's happening nothing will get done for at least another 2 years - and then what can be done ? There was a program I saw the other day about Global Dimming , comes from amongst other things , exhaust fumes from planes , this also cools the planet . If pollution from planes is cured , it may , rather than helping cool teperatures infact increase them !

So what is the solution ? I know I'm not buying any beach land in Phuket or Samui , even on a 30 year lease , I don't think it will be there for that long > Better to invest in the hills .

[solent01]

360 Rai for sale with full title deed, going cheap (ish), alt-1545ft/470m

[edd]

I get so angry at the doom and gloom merchants, when most of the FACTS that are trotted out are just bad Science.

CO2 is quoted as the big problem up in the atmosphere.

FACTS

CO2 is a heavier than Air gas, (Note the tree line on the mountains, no CO2 no Trees, this line has not changed in hundreds of years)

People assume, incorrectly, that CO2 is a large proportion of the atmosphere where as CO2 as a % of the atmosphere is only 0.03% that’s 3/100Ths of 1%.

The biggest producer of CO2 is Plankton in the seas followed by animal emissions (breaking wind)

RISING SEA LEVELS

Floating Ice (The Arctic) does not increase the seas volume when it melts, only Ice that is on solid ground i.e. The Ant artic, Greenland Ice sheet, etc

.

Global warming/cooling is completely natural and cyclical, every 25,000 years, this is caused by the irregular orbit of the Earth around the Sun.

Edited March 5, 2007 by edd

[Robski]

Environmentalism = The New Religion.

It has high priests (and priestesses) preaching that doom is on the way and that only they know how you should live your life.

It has moral codes, written by the high priests/priestesses.

It has undeniable truths, of which any attempt to deny is a heresy.

It has guilt.. oh the guilt… the guilt.

It has fundamentalist willing to kill for the cause.

Who was it that said, when people stop believing in God, they’ll start believing in Anything.

Thats a rather shallow attempt at slinging mud at anyone who may be concerned about the future of this planet GH.

Civilizations come and go, the ones that stay longest work with nature and sustain the enviroment they live in, the ones that have dissapeared before overstretched their capacity and did nothing to change the degradation of the resources that they required for long term stability.

We can sustain our existence by moderating our behaviour or we can go the way of the dinosaurs.

[GuestHouse]

edd, you will burn in hel_l unless we exact a confession of your sins by torture.

[edd]

edd, you will burn in hel_l unless we exact a confession of your sins by torture.

Well at least it will warm in he-ll, and all my friends will be there

[qwertz]

I haven't yet decided if this GW thing isn't just another ploy to up the taxes once again. Here in environmentally conscious Germany we already pay an environment tax, run lean burn vehicles etc. but we've had a (comparatively) warm winter. The starlings and geese are back early and cherry trees are already starting to bloom. The temperature is +8°C instead of -8°C and the experts are predicting doom, floods and crop failures but we had a similar winter 15 years ago. I don't any more what I should believe.

[solent01]

edd, agree with you totally

Composition of Air equates to

Nitrogen 78%

Oxygen 21%

Other gases (Argon, Carbon Dioxide, Neon, Helium, Etc) 1%

In a past life I was a Flying Instructor & Examiner, this was one of many topics I asked students to explain for me.

Edited March 5, 2007 by solent01

[edd]

edd, agree with you totally

Composition of Air equates to

Nitrogen 78%

Oxygen 21%

Other gases (Argon, Carbon Dioxide, Neon, Helium, Etc) 1%

In a past life I was a Flying Instructor & Examiner, this was one of many topics I asked students to explain for me.

Just think if we could help to increase the effects of Global Warming what a benefit that would be.

More plants, trees and a lot more food to feed the starving.

No problem about sea level increase (see earlier post)

Yep! The future looks all warm and rosy.

Edited March 5, 2007 by edd

[banchang]

mm maybe this is why high floor condos cost more

[GuestHouse]

Thats a rather shallow attempt at slinging mud at anyone who may be concerned about the future of this planet GH

It is not an attempt to throw mud at anyone. It is my observation that environmentalism has attainted the status of a new religion - There are very many aspects of the environmental movement that are right up there with the worst of religious fundementalism.

Civilizations come and go, the ones that stay longest work with nature and sustain the enviroment they live in, the ones that have dissapeared before overstretched their capacity and did nothing to change the degradation of the resources that they required for long term stability.

This is one I love. It is based on what?

Remember, environmentalism is the new religion, so we have to be careful that we don't judge history against the values of this new religion - Especially when the history of cultures we are judging has no written record.

[Robski]

Civilizations come and go, the ones that stay longest work with nature and sustain the enviroment they live in, the ones that have dissapeared before overstretched their capacity and did nothing to change the degradation of the resources that they required for long term stability.

This is one I love. It is based on what?

Remember, environmentalism is the new religion, so we have to be careful that we don't judge history against the values of this new religion - Especially when the history of cultures we are judging has no written record.

Actualy based on some pretty solid research and books I have read. Some civillisations crash because they become unsustainable in their needs, others continue to thrive because they put limits on the degradation of their resources, Japan is a prime example.

Now we live in an age where the whole world must think about using resources responsibly, not just nationally, but internationally.

Enviromentalism is not the new religion, this statement of yours may give a hint as to why you should reject enviromentalism on such grounds;

Who was it that said, when people stop believing in God, they’ll start believing in Anything.

Perhaps we should just put our fate in the hands of God?

Edited March 5, 2007 by Robski

[elkangorito]

I wonder what the oldest living race on earth has to say about this? I speak of the Australian Aboriginal who has purportedly been around for the last 40 000 years?

I also wonder what would happen to the atmosphere if all industry & fossil fuel burning was suddenly stopped? Oh! That's an easy question to answer...NOTHING would happen, according to all the debunkers of the GW fact.

Well, I guess that sooner or later, we'll <deleted> ourselves & will be forced to go back to that awful thing that so many people deny..."The Law of the Jungle". Fasten your seatbelts everyone, because we're all in for a bumpy 'nomadic' ride (as we once did happily before).

Edited March 5, 2007 by elkangorito

[katana]

Several searching questions you've asked.

How real is it?

Despite all the data, nobody really knows. The world's weather and climates are cyclical and has been since the earliest of times. All it takes is for a hotter than average summer in the UK, or wetter than average winter, and the gloom and doom merchants are running around squawking "global warming, global warming, global warming.............we're all doomed". However it is fairly certain that all of our fossil fuel burning activities are not having a positive effect on the planet, but the only question is what percentage of the effect is purely down to us?

I remember back in the 1970s there was talk of another Ice Age coming. There were newspaper articles and TV programs about it at the time. Nowadays we have predictions of global warming.

Well, whatever the truth, I agree that increased industrialisation and fossil fuel burning can't be having a good effect on the planet.