1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Having to resort to personal attacks and flames does not bode well for your argument. A soft brexit is essentially remaining in the EU. The UK electorate voted for, and won, a hard Brexit which would entail Britain pulling out of the EU customs union and being able to forge trade deals of our own. Let's just leave this here, once the insults start flying there is not much point trying to have a discussion.

 

 

They didn't vote for a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit. They voted for Brexit. The consequences of which were variously defined by its supporters.

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Fears the EU more than China of the Russian Federations? Your're having a laugh!

 

The EU isn't capable of defending itself without the US and NATO. 

 

And the EU knows it!

Why would anyone be afraid of the EU? They carry no weight. 

2 hours ago, Longcut said:

Why would anyone be afraid of the EU? They carry no weight. 

The EU is the worlds second largest economy behind the US. EU GDP=17 trillion, US GDP=19 trillion. (China=12 trillion)

 

However, the EU has the worlds largest trading economy.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/eu-position-in-world-trade/index_en.htm

 

• The EU is the largest economy in the world. Although growth is projected to be slow, the EU remains the largest economy in the world with a GDP per head of €25 000 for its 500 million consumers.
• The EU is the world's largest trading block. The EU is the world’s largest trader of manufactured goods and services.
• The EU ranks first in both inbound and outbound international investments
• The EU is the top trading partner for 80 countries. By comparison the US is the top trading partner for a little over 20 countries.
• The EU is the most open to developing countries. Fuels excluded, the EU imports more from developing countries than the USA, Canada, Japan and China put together.

The EU also has a larger population than the US.

 

They carry far more weight than any other Trading block.

 

Also EU debt to GDP ratio is 81%. US=105% The EU is a net lender to the US. If they called their loans in the US economy would collapse.

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The EU is the worlds second largest economy behind the US. EU GDP=17 trillion, US GDP=19 trillion. (China=12 trillion)

 

However, the EU has the worlds largest trading economy.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/eu-position-in-world-trade/index_en.htm

 

• The EU is the largest economy in the world. Although growth is projected to be slow, the EU remains the largest economy in the world with a GDP per head of €25 000 for its 500 million consumers.
• The EU is the world's largest trading block. The EU is the world’s largest trader of manufactured goods and services.
• The EU ranks first in both inbound and outbound international investments
• The EU is the top trading partner for 80 countries. By comparison the US is the top trading partner for a little over 20 countries.
• The EU is the most open to developing countries. Fuels excluded, the EU imports more from developing countries than the USA, Canada, Japan and China put together.

The EU also has a larger population than the US.

 

They carry far more weight than any other Trading block.

 

Also EU debt to GDP ratio is 81%. US=105% The EU is a net lender to the US. If they called their loans in the US economy would collapse.

And that is another strong indicator as to why the UK can not afford to leave the EU. Something that Trump has angled for with the help of the "cheshire cat" Farage.  No doubt when he is on this visit his speeches will be broadcast full of bile and lies. Who in the government I wonder advised the Queen to invite him for a state visit ?

Edited April 23, 20197 yr by geoffbezoz

8 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

And that is another strong indicator as to why the UK can not afford to leave the EU.

For me it's the strongest reason not to leave the EU. We need to stand firm with the EU and avail ourselves of the protection they provide from Trump's bully boy tactics.

 

The EU holds by far the largest amount of US debt. 2,75 trillion in US treasury bonds.

Edited April 23, 20197 yr by Spidey

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

For me it's the strongest reason not to leave the EU. We need to stand firm with the EU and avail ourselves of the protection they provide from Trump's bully boy tactics.

 

The EU holds by far the largest amount of US debt. 2,75 trillion in US treasury bonds.

Agreed. If the EU and China ( holding  1.3 trillion of debt ) pooled their economic clout, the US would be completely screwed and with the idiot Trump still there most of the world would be pleased. After all from 2025 China will be the worlds largest economy with the US playing second fiddle.

4 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

Agreed. If the EU and China ( holding  1.3 trillion of debt ) pooled their economic clout, the US would be completely screwed and with the idiot Trump still there most of the world would be pleased. After all from 2025 China will be the worlds largest economy with the US playing second fiddle.

US could respond by simply forming agreement with Russia to partition the EU between them. You think China would come to your defense? 

3 hours ago, usviphotography said:

US could respond by simply forming agreement with Russia to partition the EU between them. You think China would come to your defense? 

We're talking about a trade war not a nuclear war. Russia's economy is way down the pecking order.

19 hours ago, Thainesss said:

So we can expect a wave of remainer crybabies in London again with their 6 foot Trump balloon. 

I can’t wait!

14 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

The left won't tolerate free speech they disagree with.

and the Right of Centre followers do so? - easy proven they do not by posters on this forum aggressively seeking to suppress so called 'lefties'

One hopes this time 'round trump doesn't attack / insult his host country.

20 hours ago, Thainesss said:

So we can expect a wave of remainer crybabies in London again with their 6 foot Trump balloon. 

With a bit of luck it will rain and ‘Private Bone Spurs’ will stay in his room.

 

 

11 hours ago, Spidey said:

The EU is the worlds second largest economy behind the US. EU GDP=17 trillion, US GDP=19 trillion. (China=12 trillion)

 

However, the EU has the worlds largest trading economy.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/eu-position-in-world-trade/index_en.htm

 

• The EU is the largest economy in the world. Although growth is projected to be slow, the EU remains the largest economy in the world with a GDP per head of €25 000 for its 500 million consumers.
• The EU is the world's largest trading block. The EU is the world’s largest trader of manufactured goods and services.
• The EU ranks first in both inbound and outbound international investments
• The EU is the top trading partner for 80 countries. By comparison the US is the top trading partner for a little over 20 countries.
• The EU is the most open to developing countries. Fuels excluded, the EU imports more from developing countries than the USA, Canada, Japan and China put together.

The EU also has a larger population than the US.

 

They carry far more weight than any other Trading block.

 

Also EU debt to GDP ratio is 81%. US=105% The EU is a net lender to the US. If they called their loans in the US economy would collapse.

If the U.S. sent them a bill for everything else. The EU would collapse.

9 minutes ago, Longcut said:

If the U.S. sent them a bill for everything else. The EU would collapse.

?

18 hours ago, Spidey said:

The EU is the worlds second largest economy behind the US. EU GDP=17 trillion, US GDP=19 trillion. (China=12 trillion)

 

However, the EU has the worlds largest trading economy.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/eu-position-in-world-trade/index_en.htm

 

• The EU is the largest economy in the world. Although growth is projected to be slow, the EU remains the largest economy in the world with a GDP per head of €25 000 for its 500 million consumers.
• The EU is the world's largest trading block. The EU is the world’s largest trader of manufactured goods and services.
• The EU ranks first in both inbound and outbound international investments
• The EU is the top trading partner for 80 countries. By comparison the US is the top trading partner for a little over 20 countries.
• The EU is the most open to developing countries. Fuels excluded, the EU imports more from developing countries than the USA, Canada, Japan and China put together.

The EU also has a larger population than the US.

 

They carry far more weight than any other Trading block.

 

Also EU debt to GDP ratio is 81%. US=105% The EU is a net lender to the US. If they called their loans in the US economy would collapse.

The process of “paying off the debt”, would literally just be a conversion of $19 trillion from securities to dollars. The government creates both forms of money, and could do so immediately if it needed to (there’s no limit to the amount of either dollars or securities we can issue). Dollars are the more liquid of the two; they can be “spent” directly (which is their purpose). Shifting the balance so strongly towards dollars would massively inflate the dollar, since spending creates inflationary pressure, and putting 19 trillion dollars worth of assets into liquid form would inevitably drive a spending boom. So the dollar would inflate, meaning its value would drop; in this case, like a rock. This would compound the earlier problem of cashing out everyone’s savings; you forced them to turn their safe securities into dollars, and now those dollars are worth significantly less. Potentially half of the wealth held by people owning US money would disappear; or, more accurately, be shifted to people holding wealth in non-U.S. currency: foreign governments, land and resource owners, etc. In effect, it would be little different from taking half of what every american owns, and giving it away to others, mostly outside of the U.S. Which I suppose is good or bad depending on your point of view; personally, I’m not in favor. ????

Finally, the effects of this disruption would cause economic collapses all over the place. Ours, to start with, but also our major trade partners, plus any country with large holdings of U.S. securities (Japan, China, Brazil). In other words, global depression, far worse than 2008. Which would lead to increased crime, conflicts over resources, and basically just a really bad situation for every living thing on the planet.

There is no corresponding good that balances this. The federal debt doesn’t do anything negative to our economy, our government, or our way of life. In reality, it’s not any different from the national currency; both are simply government-backed debt markers created to facilitate economic exchanges. It’s only when people mis-understand what the debt actually is that they think we somehow need to eliminate it.