England.

[Kananga]

Being Scottish, I was born with a hatred for anything to do with England. Now, I actually like 'English' curries and think they are even better than the ones in India. I met an English guy about 7 years ago who was a really decent bloke. I think I may be responsible for some anti English sentiment from the Thai people - I apologize. All I do is tell them the history of my country and what the English did to our monarchy.

You can't beat a bitter Scot for someone to laugh at! Did the Thais return the favour by telling you about what they did with the Burmese monarchy? Of course not!

They most likely didn't. But they probably did try to ask about what English men did to native Americans in North America to get all the land though.

I didn't realise John Wayne was English. :lol::lol::lol:

[ThaiGoon]

I didn't realise John Wayne was English. :lol::lol::lol:

Not John Wayne. I was talking about his granddad who had to take the land away from the Indians first before John Wayne himself could roam about the whole US of A.

[Kananga]

I didn't realise John Wayne was English. :lol::lol::lol:

Not John Wayne. I was talking about his granddad who had to take the land away from the Indians first before John Wayne himself could roam about the whole US of A.

So John Wayne's granddad was English and he took all of the land in the US from the native Americans(Indians is a derogatory term these days) then? My, you learn new bullshit everyday on this forum!

[Neeranam]

I went to a party on Sunday night to the home of American Indians. They were originally from Kerala, but moved to the States when young. It doesn't sound right calling them that, what would you call them. Indian Americans?

[Kananga]

I went to a party on Sunday night to the home of American Indians. They were originally from Kerala, but moved to the States when young. It doesn't sound right calling them that, what would you call them. Indian Americans?

Hahaha! You though I meant people from India. I was refering to Native Americans! Haha, you need to go back to school mate.

[Wolfie]

An utterly disgraceful thread which should be closed for two reasons:

1) It has nothing to do with Thailand, and

2) It's full of hate-filled racist nonsense that has no part on this forum.

Well the original post did have a reference to Thailand, even if it were a loose one, so i will dispute your first point.

As for the second point, yes i agree. I'm not going to close this thread (yet) but i will state once, clearly and for the record, that racist insults will not be tolerated on Thaivisa.com. So if you wish to continue to debate this topic then keep the racist trash out of it. Anyone failing to do this will be suspended immediately pending moderator review.

Have i made myself clear?

Now, i will go back and try to tidy up the thread and remove the racist cr@p - but please bear with me this may take some time and i have several other things that need doing also...

[ThaiGoon]

Do you really not get it that I didn't mean John Wayne's granddad literally..but more of metaphorically?

And no (American) Indians is not a derogatory term.

[Kananga]

Do you really not get it that I didn't mean John Wayne's granddad literally..but more of metaphorically?

And no (American) Indians is not a derogatory term.

So you are saying John Wayne's metaphoric granddad was an English land robber? Ok, you make so much more sense now.

[Neeranam]

And no (American) Indians is not a derogatory term.

Do you mean the ones that come from Bombay or the ones with wigwams?

[ThaiGoon]

Do you really not get it that I didn't mean John Wayne's granddad literally..but more of metaphorically?

And no (American) Indians is not a derogatory term.

So you are saying John Wayne's metaphoric granddad was an English land robber? Ok, you make so much more sense now.

Try googling "Indians smallpox blankets" then you might start getting what I was talking about.

[ThaiGoon]

You could add "genocide" to that too just to be more specific you know. And you might come up with this name: "Lord Jeffrey Amherst, commanding general of British forces in North America."

Edited March 7, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[ThaiGoon]

And no (American) Indians is not a derogatory term.

Do you mean the ones that come from Bombay or the ones with wigwams?

The native Americans...

[Neeranam]

So you are saying John Wayne's metaphoric granddad was an English land robber? Ok, you make so much more sense now.

Actually, he was an Irish milkman.

[ThaiGoon]

So you are saying John Wayne's metaphoric granddad was an English land robber? Ok, you make so much more sense now.

Actually, he was an Irish milkman.

[bendix]

Well the original post did have a reference to Thailand, even if it were a loose one, so i will dispute your first point.

Oh come on Wolfie. Putting the word 'Thailand' in an original post that has nothing to do with Thailand does NOT make it a Thailand thread. This thread is about England. How can it be related to Thailand in any way?

Jet Gorgon got her butt smacked the other day for starting a thread asking for advice about boiling water. If she had phrased it, 'can anyone give me advice on boiling water in Thailand', would it meet the 'Thailand relevant' criteria?

Anyway, you are the moderators so it's your call, but it seems pretty tenuous to me.

[Kananga]

You could add "genocide" to that too just to be more specific you know. And you might come up with this name: "Lord Jeffrey Amherst, commanding general of British forces in North America."

I did come up with this..Based primarily on the lies of Ward Churchill, the use of smallpox blankets as a means of Indian genocide by the Unites States Army and the Government is in some current textbooks used in the educational system.

source - http://www.thefurtrapper.com/indian_smallpox.htm

Also found this...

Smallpox blankets

Despite his fame, Jeffrey Amherst's name became tarnished by stories of smallpox-infected blankets used as germ warfare against American Indians. These stories are reported, for example, in Carl Waldman's Atlas of the North American Indian [NY: Facts on File, 1985]. Waldman writes, in reference to a siege of Fort Pitt (Pittsburgh) by Chief Pontiac's forces during the summer of 1763:

... Captain Simeon Ecuyer had bought time by sending smallpox-infected blankets and handkerchiefs to the Indians surrounding the fort -- an early example of biological warfare -- which started an epidemic among them. Amherst himself had encouraged this tactic in a letter to Ecuyer. [p. 108]

Some people have doubted these stories; other people, believing the stories, nevertheless assert that the infected blankets were not intentionally distributed to the Indians, or that Lord Jeff himself is not to blame for the germ warfare tactic.

Source - http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/amherst/lord_jeff.html

I think responding with 'Irish milkman' sums up both your intelligence levels.

[Ling Kae]

Ironic that the dumbest bigots cite immigration as one of the main reason for leaving the UK, then here in Thailand, drink at English style pubs, seek out English breakfasts, and wear England football shirts. The really stupid ones then start blabbing on about how the 'paki's' keep to themselves.

I've heard the 'too many paki's in the UK' shit plenty of times since I've been here in Thailand - because I'm white and English, some idiots presume that it's ok to spout that sort of garbage in my company.

Bigotry is just stupidity, or madness (i.e Hitler)

I couldn't agree with you more. I have been coming to Thailand for years and I have heard it many times from *some* long term expats. Some of these expats can't even count to 10 in Thai, make no effort to eat the local food and even less effort to integrate into the local community yet they carry on about the migrants in their home country . Look at the way they assimilate, you and Bendix are right.

[ThaiGoon]

How did a genius like you miss this part then?

"Several other letters from the summer of 1763 show the smallpox idea was not an anomaly. The letters are filled with comments that indicate a genocidal intent, with phrases such as: "...that Vermine ... have forfeited all claim to the rights of humanity" (Bouquet to Amherst, 25 June) [149k]

"I would rather chuse the liberty to kill any Savage...." (Bouquet to Amherst, 25 June) [121k]

"...Measures to be taken as would Bring about the Total Extirpation of those Indian Nations" (Amherst to Sir William Johnson, Superintendent of the Northern Indian Department, 9 July) [229k]

"...their Total Extirpation is scarce sufficient Attonement...." (Amherst to George Croghan, Deputy Agent for Indian Affairs, 7 August) [145k]

"...put a most Effectual Stop to their very Being" (Amherst to Johnson, 27 August [292k]; emphasis in original).

Amherst's correspondence during this time includes many letters on routine matters, such as officers who are sick or want to be relieved of duty; accounts of provisions on hand, costs for supplies, number of people garrisoned; negotiations with provincial governors (the army is upset with the Pennsylvania assembly, for example, for refusing to draft men for service); and so on. None of these other letters show a deranged mind or an obsession with cruelty. Amherst's venom was strictly reserved for Indians."

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/syllabi...m/00intro02.htm

[Kananga]

How did a genius like you miss this part then?

"Several other letters from the summer of 1763 show the smallpox idea was not an anomaly. The letters are filled with comments that indicate a genocidal intent, with phrases such as: "...that Vermine ... have forfeited all claim to the rights of humanity" (Bouquet to Amherst, 25 June) [149k]

"I would rather chuse the liberty to kill any Savage...." (Bouquet to Amherst, 25 June) [121k]

"...Measures to be taken as would Bring about the Total Extirpation of those Indian Nations" (Amherst to Sir William Johnson, Superintendent of the Northern Indian Department, 9 July) [229k]

"...their Total Extirpation is scarce sufficient Attonement...." (Amherst to George Croghan, Deputy Agent for Indian Affairs, 7 August) [145k]

"...put a most Effectual Stop to their very Being" (Amherst to Johnson, 27 August [292k]; emphasis in original).

Amherst's correspondence during this time includes many letters on routine matters, such as officers who are sick or want to be relieved of duty; accounts of provisions on hand, costs for supplies, number of people garrisoned; negotiations with provincial governors (the army is upset with the Pennsylvania assembly, for example, for refusing to draft men for service); and so on. None of these other letters show a deranged mind or an obsession with cruelty. Amherst's venom was strictly reserved for Indians."

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/syllabi...m/00intro02.htm

So you have proved he was a racist who wrote letters. Oooooooooooooooh.

[ThaiGoon]

By the way, I'm sorry for having gone way topic. I was just responding to Kananga, the English genius. I also don't have anything against English people in general, nor do I hold what your ancestros did centuries ago against you.

Trying to explain what I meant to Kanango, did really take me several posts....and perhaps unfortuantely he still doesn't even get it.

[Kananga]

How did a genius like you miss this part then?

"Several other letters from the summer of 1763 show the smallpox idea was not an anomaly. The letters are filled with comments that indicate a genocidal intent, with phrases such as: "...that Vermine ... have forfeited all claim to the rights of humanity" (Bouquet to Amherst, 25 June) [149k]

"I would rather chuse the liberty to kill any Savage...." (Bouquet to Amherst, 25 June) [121k]

"...Measures to be taken as would Bring about the Total Extirpation of those Indian Nations" (Amherst to Sir William Johnson, Superintendent of the Northern Indian Department, 9 July) [229k]

"...their Total Extirpation is scarce sufficient Attonement...." (Amherst to George Croghan, Deputy Agent for Indian Affairs, 7 August) [145k]

"...put a most Effectual Stop to their very Being" (Amherst to Johnson, 27 August [292k]; emphasis in original).

Amherst's correspondence during this time includes many letters on routine matters, such as officers who are sick or want to be relieved of duty; accounts of provisions on hand, costs for supplies, number of people garrisoned; negotiations with provincial governors (the army is upset with the Pennsylvania assembly, for example, for refusing to draft men for service); and so on. None of these other letters show a deranged mind or an obsession with cruelty. Amherst's venom was strictly reserved for Indians."

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/syllabi...m/00intro02.htm

So you have proved he was a racist who wrote letters. Oooooooooooooooh.

[StateSix]

The Op's question referred to England----look at a current map and you will see that england no longer exists!

Scotland is there and has its own parliament. Wales too. what used to be england is now a series of european states!!!!!!

The net result of this has been that Scotland and Wales pass laws that give their peoples a huge advantage over the english! For example prescription charges are due to increase in what used to be england whilst they are to become free in Wales!

It is mooted that all cars registered in what used to be england will be required by law to have tracking devices fitted and additional taxation will be levied on miles travelled and tracked. Scottish people will not suffer this even when using ( what used to be english ) roads!

A group of drunken asians went on the rampage recently, beating up any whites they saw and threatening women with knives---quoted as saying they were from afghanistan and would kill all whites. eventually arrested and punished the heaviest sentence for them was 12 months probation. Meanwhile a white politician accused of racially insulting an asylum seeker was imprisoned for several years ( no violence was involved and there were no witnesses to the said verbal racial insults.

English people will work at all levels and this lie that they will not take manual jobs is purely that---a lie!

The influx of immigrants is out of control now aand most are not industrious in my experience.

Most of all , long term the deadly threat is radical islam----sharia law here is due soon. the muslims are outbreeding us!!!

I am joining the many disillusioned next week---englan no longer exists and although many good english wILL fight to regain the country it will be terrible to witness the needless rivers of blood soon to flow here.

What are the sources for the above? From your description it is hard to believe, but not unbelieveable, that the "drunken asians" did not get custodial sentences for what appears to be violent disorder, assaults and carrying weapons. However I don't believe that a politician would be "imprisoned for several years" for verbal insults, even if racist, if no threats of violence were made. Even with a threat of violence, and being racially aggravated, you are only looking at a 2 year maximum sentence. If there were no witnesses how was he convicted?

[Kananga]

By the way, I'm sorry for having gone way topic. I was just responding to Kananga, the English genius. I also don't have anything against English people in general, nor do I hold what your ancestros did centuries ago against you.

Trying to explain what I meant to Kanango, did really take me several posts....and perhaps unfortuantely he still doesn't even get it.

Well if you attempted to make sense and think about what you were typing I'm sure even you could have made a better attempt at it.

[ThaiGoon]

So you have proved he was a racist who wrote letters. Oooooooooooooooh.

Here...from the same link:

"These are the pivotal letters:

Colonel Henry Bouquet to General Amherst, dated 13 July 1763, [262k] suggests in a postscript the distribution of blankets to "inocculate the Indians";

Amherst to Bouquet, dated 16 July 1763, [128k] approves this plan in a postscript and suggests as well as "to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race." (This postcript spans two pages.)"

I hope that will be the last post for this subject, all right genius?

[ThaiGoon]

Well if you attempted to make sense and think about what you were typing I'm sure even you could have made a better attempt at it.

Well, at least I'm happy now that you, Einstein, understood I wasn't talking about the real John Wayne's grand father.

[Kananga]

So you have proved he was a racist who wrote letters. Oooooooooooooooh.

Here...from the same link:

"These are the pivotal letters:

Colonel Henry Bouquet to General Amherst, dated 13 July 1763, [262k] suggests in a postscript the distribution of blankets to "inocculate the Indians";

Amherst to Bouquet, dated 16 July 1763, [128k] approves this plan in a postscript and suggests as well as "to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race." (This postcript spans two pages.)"

I hope that will be the last post for this subject, all right genius?

Like I said, a racist who liked to write letters. and with absolutely no proof form you that he did any more than write letters.

This will indeed be the last post for the subject as you have absolutely no proof to back up your claims!

[ThaiGoon]

Like I said, a racist who liked to write letters. and with absolutely no proof form you that he did any more than write letters.

This will indeed be the last post for the subject as you have absolutely no proof to back up your claims!

Err...if you don't mind, please try to read what the author of that piece concluded. PLEASE.

Ahh actually forget it. You might not know where to look for the conclusion. So let me quote some of it myself:

"All in all, the letters provided here remove all doubt about the validity of the stories about Lord Jeff and germ warfare. The General's own letters sustain the stories.

As to whether the plans actually were carried out, Parkman has this to say:

... in the following spring, Gershom Hicks, who had been among the Indians, reported at Fort Pitt that the small-pox had been raging for some time among them....

An additional source of information on the matter is the Journal of William Trent, commander of the local militia of the townspeople of Pittsburgh during Pontiac's seige of the fort. This Journal has been described as "... the most detailed contemporary account of the anxious days and nights in the beleaguered stronghold." [Pen Pictures of Early Western Pennsylvania, John W. Harpster, ed. (University of Pittsburgh Press, 1938).]

Trent's entry for May 24, 1763, includes the following statement:

... we gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect."

[wolf359]

I'm not going to close this thread (yet) but i will state once, clearly and for the record, that racist insults will not be tolerated on Thaivisa.com. So if you wish to continue to debate this topic then keep the racist trash out of it. Anyone failing to do this will be suspended immediately pending moderator review.

An interesting point, how do you as a moderator define a racist insult? is it OK for an Australian to call an Englishman a 'Pommie' especially when he adds not washing or wearing socks? if it was said about the Thais the post would be closed like lightening !! or is it not racist to insult an Englishman.

[Wolfie]

A dodgy thread at best, lets keep it on topic or loose the thread completely, thanks!

[Wolfie]

Wasn't there a news report fairly recently saying that Aussies (beer drinking, BBQ loving convicts) calling Englishmen (upstanding expert sportsmen) pommies wasn't racist?

Either way, the use of racist terminology will result in suspensions, post removal and possible thread locking... of course if you see something you find offensive, feel free to use the report function, otherwise i will use my own judgment on what is considered racist.

Its a shame really, this could have been an excellent debate but a few of you seem insistent on using nasty and racist remarks, whilst some of the others are calling for the thread to be locked (because they don't like the subject matter?) whilst the remainder seem keen on having a sensible, grown up, mature debate.

I prefer the latter category, personally.