Monthly income for retirement visa

[huckleberry108]

Hello... my apologies if this inquiry has been answered a zillion times,,, I deposit 2600 usd/month in my bkk bank account, in thai baht, from a foreign account .... (the same amount I claimed on my affidavit of income for the past few years... I then proceed to spend it throughout the month... I think I started in December,, so by August I will be able to show 8 or 9 consecutive months of this deposit...  Q) Is this sufficient to renew my retirement visa? Thanks for the help.. 

[marcusarelus]

Be OK maybe next year if you can prove it is from a retirement account.  This year I'd do the 800k.  Of course depends on where you are getting your extension. 

[huckleberry108]

chaengwattana

[trd]

Be OK maybe next year if you can prove it is from a retirement account.  This year I'd do the 800k.  Of course depends on where you are getting your extension. 

You don't have to prove where the money comes from. Since many embassies stopped issuing letters, immigration have just accepted that regular payments proved to be foreign transactions are enough.

[ubonjoe]

Are you depositing your income or transferring it it to your account from abroad.

Eight or 9 months of transfers from abroad will be accepted this year to apply for your extension.

[sumrit]

1 hour ago, huckleberry108 said:

Hello... my apologies if this inquiry has been answered a zillion times,,, I deposit 2600 usd/month in my bkk bank account, in thai baht, from a foreign account .... (the same amount I claimed on my affidavit of income for the past few years... I then proceed to spend it throughout the month... I think I started in December,, so by August I will be able to show 8 or 9 consecutive months of this deposit...  Q) Is this sufficient to renew my retirement visa? Thanks for the help..

Should be fine, as long as the deposits in your BKK Bank account are recorded as an International transfer/FFT on your bank statement/bankbook. You can spend it as you wish.

[SEtonal]

4 hours ago, trd said:

5 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Be OK maybe next year if you can prove it is from a retirement account.  This year I'd do the 800k.  Of course depends on where you are getting your extension. 

You don't have to prove where the money comes from. Since many embassies stopped issuing letters, immigration have just accepted that regular payments proved to be foreign transactions are enough.

Individual immigration offices are allowed to make up their own rules.  No proof of where the money comes from is needed at Chaeng Wattana, but two reports have said that Chiang Mai requested proof of a pension.  A female poster here asked at Chiang Mai about going from the 800k method to the monthly 65k method and the first thing the Immigration Officer asked her was if she had a pension.  Phuket requires those with Embassy Letters verifying their income to deposit 65k monthly into a Thai bank account.  Next year in 2020, Phetchabun Immigration will only accept the 65k method from those with both a pension and an Embassy Letter.
 

[trd]

Individual immigration offices are allowed to make up their own rules.  No proof of where the money comes from is needed at Chaeng Wattana, but two reports have said that Chiang Mai requested proof of a pension.  A female poster here asked at Chiang Mai about going from the 800k method to the monthly 65k method and the first thing the Immigration Officer asked her was if she had a pension.  Phuket requires those with Embassy Letters verifying their income to deposit 65k monthly into a Thai bank account.  Next year in 2020, Phetchabun Immigration will only accept the 65k method from those with both a pension and an Embassy Letter.
 

It doesn't have to be 65k. It could be 30k but the rest made up from a lump sum. I can only speak for Phuket. I use an agent who is an ex immigration officer and she assures me that the only requirement is to see regular monthly payments coming from overseas on a bank statement. I will trust that source of information.

 

[Jingthing]

It doesn't have to be 65k. It could be 30k but the rest made up from a lump sum. I can only speak for Phuket. I use an agent who is an ex immigration officer and she assures me that the only requirement is to see regular monthly payments coming from overseas on a bank statement. I will trust that source of information. 

You're taking about the combo method. If attempting a combo method application you need to comply with the new rules about both the income and bank method adjusted for the combo. The income part is clear enough (and yes for a combo would be under 65k) particularly if you can show 12 months back but it gets confusing with the bank part. The bank part will require seasoning before and after the same as a full 800k bank application but the specific rules for the seasoning for a combo are in a problematic zone of confusion. It can easily vary on the interpretation at different offices when such applications are accepted at all. A surer thing is to just do a full 800k bank application.  

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[SEtonal]

4 minutes ago, trd said:

It doesn't have to be 65k. It could be 30k but the rest made up from a lump sum. I can only speak for Phuket. I use an agent who is an ex immigration officer and she assures me that the only requirement is to see regular monthly payments coming from overseas on a bank statement. I will trust that source of information.

 

Yes, the rules I mentioned are for people filing on their own without an agent.  Of course most these rules don't apply when an agent is used.  The fee you pay an agent is shared with Immigration.  Immigration wants people to use agents, that's why they have difficult rules to send people to agents.

 

I just advised someone today in Chiang Mai to go to an agent.  

 

 

[trd]

Yes, the rules I mentioned are for people filing on their own without an agent.  Of course most these rules don't apply when an agent is used.  The fee you pay an agent is shared with Immigration.  Immigration wants people to use agents, that's why they have difficult rules to send people to agents.  

I just advised someone today in Chiang Mai to go to an agent.  

 

 

 

Very true. They would prefer everyone to use an agent. They're not going to rock the boat too much if there's the odd irregularity here and there if there's money coming across the table. 

 

 

[SEtonal]

17 minutes ago, trd said:

It doesn't have to be 65k. It could be 30k but the rest made up from a lump sum. I can only speak for Phuket. I use an agent who is an ex immigration officer and she assures me that the only requirement is to see regular monthly payments coming from overseas on a bank statement. I will trust that source of information.

 

It went over my head that you were talking about the combination method until I read Jingthing's post.   In a addition to what I wrote, the poster in the link below, a3stw, wrote two posts on how he was refused an extension in Phuket using the combination method.  He tried to file on his own without an agent.   His solution was to go to Savannakhet and get a 1 year Non-O ME visa.   I would have paid an agent because those 1 year Non-O ME visa require a border run every 90 days.

 

 

 

[trd]

You're taking about the combo method. If attempting a combo method application you need to comply with the new rules about both the income and bank method adjusted for the combo. The income part is clear enough (and yes for a combo would be under 65k) particularly if you can show 12 months back but it gets confusing with the bank part. The bank part will require seasoning before and after the same as a full 800k bank application but the specific rules for the seasoning for a combo are in a problematic zone of confusion. It can easily vary on the interpretation at different offices when such applications are accepted at all. A surer thing is to just do a full 800k bank application.  Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 
 
 
 
 

I'm using the full 800k method. As you know the new rule says you have to maintain that 800k balance for 3 months after renewal and then maintain a balance of not less than 400k until three months before the next renewal when you will have to bump it up to 800k again for seasoning. But what if I use a combo method. To make the numbers easy let's say I have 12 monthly payments which add up up to 400k. So that means I would have to use a lump sum of 400k to get to 800k 3 months before renewal. But what happens afterwards. If I'm already providing 400k to maintain the balance overall through monthly pension payments it seems to me that's the lump sum of 400k could be taken out, but if I were to withdraw all the pension payments then would I still have to leave 400k in the account and how is that different than the 800k lump sum method?

[trd]

Another way of looking at it. I get 12 monthly payments adding up to 400k and I withdraw that money every month and spend it so there is zero money in the account. 3 months before renewal I put 400k in because the other 400k is already accounted for as monthly payments and there's no stipulation that money has to remain in the account. It is after all my pension to spend. So after renewal presumably I have to keep 400k in the account for 3 months but what happens after that. Can I take all the money out so there is zero in the account because my monthly pension payments of 400k annually account for the minimum balance I have to maintain?

[Jingthing]

I can't explain the combo method rules and neither can many officers. That's the problem. The enforcement before and after is overly complicated and subject to a wide variety of local interpretations including saying go away too difficult.

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[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, trd said:

It is after all my pension to spend

Exactly, something some folk appear to have forgotten. If the system is so unco-ordinated, why bother, you could go up to the desk next time and find the rules are changed again.

 

If regular monthly  transfers of 2600USD are not enough, with proof of a legitimate transfers from a home country bank, (since the "rule" came out), nothing will be good enough probably.....

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by johnwf1963

[gk10002000]

3 hours ago, SEtonal said:

Individual immigration offices are allowed to make up their own rules.  No proof of where the money comes from is needed at Chaeng Wattana, but two reports have said that Chiang Mai requested proof of a pension.  A female poster here asked at Chiang Mai about going from the 800k method to the monthly 65k method and the first thing the Immigration Officer asked her was if she had a pension.  Phuket requires those with Embassy Letters verifying their income to deposit 65k monthly into a Thai bank account.  Next year in 2020, Phetchabun Immigration will only accept the 65k method from those with both a pension and an Embassy Letter.
 

I fully believe the Thais will gravitate to seeing some evidence of a pension, not just some monthly transfers which by themselves do not prove any sort of reasonably sustainable income.  One could just be spending down a lump sum and transferring it in monthly.  That I am sure is not what the idea of "income" was intended to be.  Now if the OP above says Phetchabun will only accept pension and Embassy Letter, well that is bad news for those that can't get embassy letters.  Even if they prove transfers, they won't have the embassy letter.  This whole thing is a mess and will be a mess for quite a while.

[UKresonant]

28 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

One could just be spending down a lump sum and transferring it in monthly. 

A lot of the UK pensions now could be thought of that way, the old Defined Benefit pensions are dwindling in number, and a lot of non-government DB pensions, over the last few years, have been transferred out to private company schemes (due to very impressive transfer values). So you are spending down a lump sum, from a point of view, but the .gov hope it will be in a controlled and considered manner. The .gov will rake in the tax from you if you take lots out anyway! 

The thing is the extension is only 12 months, with no ongoing assurances. If you lock lots of cash here, your out on a limb. Past performance  is no guide to the future, as they suggest on UK financial products. I've read a few sad posts on here, were folk thought they were doing good and were integrated here, then one day at the office, it did not matter a jot! If an individual expects not to have a long life, it may be the thing to have a few years out, and more subdued, later retirement. Talked to someone many years ago that was into diving, planned a three year blast, and had a Military and state pension to fall back on later...after working for a bit longer.

[bubba]

12 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I fully believe the Thais will gravitate to seeing some evidence of a pension, not just some monthly transfers which by themselves do not prove any sort of reasonably sustainable income.  One could just be spending down a lump sum and transferring it in monthly.  That I am sure is not what the idea of "income" was intended to be.  Now if the OP above says Phetchabun will only accept pension and Embassy Letter, well that is bad news for those that can't get embassy letters.  Even if they prove transfers, they won't have the embassy letter.  This whole thing is a mess and will be a mess for quite a while.

In this becomes the rule, then the income option is effectively ruled out for those who are not yet of pension age. That represents a large percentage of retirees here. I cannot see TI taking yet another draconian measure to chase retirees and their money away. 

[malibukid]

15 hours ago, SEtonal said:

Yes, the rules I mentioned are for people filing on their own without an agent.  Of course most these rules don't apply when an agent is used.  The fee you pay an agent is shared with Immigration.  Immigration wants people to use agents, that's why they have difficult rules to send people to agents.

 

I just advised someone today in Chiang Mai to go to an agent.  

 

 

i would also advise on using an agent.  saves a lot of headache.  i believe what an agent tell me.  IO's are just to fickle. 

[trd]

i would also advise on using an agent.  saves a lot of headache.  i believe what an agent tell me.  IO's are just to fickle. 

I totally agree. I just don't want the hassle anymore. I've used an agent for the last three years and will continue doing so. It's a one time reasonable fee every year I'm happy to pay. And more than ever since things have become just so much more confusing.

[AAArdvark]

13 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I fully believe the Thais will gravitate to seeing some evidence of a pension, not just some monthly transfers which by themselves do not prove any sort of reasonably sustainable income.  One could just be spending down a lump sum and transferring it in monthly.  That I am sure is not what the idea of "income" was intended to be.  Now if the OP above says Phetchabun will only accept pension and Embassy Letter, well that is bad news for those that can't get embassy letters.  Even if they prove transfers, they won't have the embassy letter.  This whole thing is a mess and will be a mess for quite a while.

That might be true but not all pensions are proof of sustainability.  Not the anything immigration does makes any sense but showing an income by deposits for a full year and checking every year is proof of sustainability.  It would make more sense if pension income had to be shown during the initial visa application.

[jesimps]

For the attention of Ubon Joe.

 

I had an existing sum of money in my BOA Mee Tae Dai account. I've been sending just over 65,000 baht monthly since January using Transferwise to my BBL account which shows up as International Payments. I've been transferring most of this to my BOA account and now it is topped up to about 410,000 baht, which I can use for the marriage visa lump sum if necessary. However, I'm not too keen on going down that route after 12 years of retirement extensions. 

 

I assume that if I carry on transferring a monthly amount from abroad until I reach an income total of 400,000 then I can use the retirement extension combination method, for which I'd need bank letters from both banks, the BBL one to include an income statement.

 

Grateful if you would answer a few questions before continuing with my contingency plans concerning the combination method. With regard to the new rules:

Do I have to season the lump sum, before and after the date of extension?
Does a portion of it need to lay untouched for 12 months as per the retirement extn?
Is it ok to spend the international transfers to BBL right away as living expenses?
Disregarding the "leniency" instructions, would the income part of it still have to consist of 12 months of international transfers, or less providing the lump and income total exceeds 800,000?

 

My embassy has stopped issuing the income letter and my immigration office is Jomtien.

[WalkingOrders]

I renewed in Feb using new rules, had 9 months showing, updated bank book that day, bank statements, bangkok bank only gives 6, and letter from bank that showed all foreign incoming deposits, and summary of that amount. No issues. Previously I moved funds myself from US bank to thai bank instead of using direct deposit.

[ubonjoe]

38 minutes ago, jesimps said:

I've been sending just over 65,000 baht monthly since January using Transferwise to my BBL account which shows up as International Payments.

Showing 800k or 400k baht in the bank is not needed if you can show 65k baht being transferred from abroad for a few months this year.

You can use the 65k baht income option to apply for an extension of stay based upon retirement. Just show a bank statement from the bank showing the 65k baht coming in and a letter from the bank to validate your account.

[Suradit69]

On April 29, 2019 at 12:55 PM, huckleberry108 said:

 I deposit 2600 usd/month in my bkk bank account, in thai baht, from a foreign ...

Hopefully you're sending dollars that the Thai bank turns into baht and not asking your US bank to convert to baht before transferring.

[malibukid]

3 hours ago, trd said:

3 hours ago, malibukid said:

i would also advise on using an agent.  saves a lot of headache.  i believe what an agent tell me.  IO's are just to fickle. 

I totally agree. I just don't want the hassle anymore. I've used an agent for the last three years and will continue doing so. It's a one time reasonable fee every year I'm happy to pay. And more than ever since things have become just so much more confusing.

 handles all the documents as well.  well worth the $200 bucks she charges which includes the visa fee.  inevitably i have found few fluent English speakers at immigration.  frustrating. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by malibukid

[mtls2005]

16 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I fully believe the Thais will gravitate to seeing some evidence of a pension, not just some monthly transfers which by themselves do not prove any sort of reasonably sustainable income.

 

An extension is only granted for 1 year, and not in perpetuity. The current system seems to infer that, at least for individuals, something in the neighborhood of 65,000 is a reasonably sustainable income? Granted, we are afforded a cushion as they seem to be happy now with giving us future credit, for past performance, but only on an annual basis, subject to review.

 

Any pension, even Social Security, could become insolvent with little or no warning.

 

 

 

 

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Showing 800k or 400k baht in the bank is not needed if you can show 65k baht being transferred from abroad for a few months this year.

You can use the 65k baht income option to apply for an extension of stay based upon retirement. Just show a bank statement from the bank showing the 65k baht coming in and a letter from the bank to validate your account.

Thanks. Reason I asked was because I'm a bit concerned that Jomtien TI won't know what "leniency" means and demand 12 month's statements. I guess the proof of the pudding will be when someone presents them with five or six month's statements and reports the result on here. If all else fails, I'll just go the married extension route.

[zaZa9]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Showing 800k or 400k baht in the bank is not needed if you can show 65k baht being transferred from abroad for a few months this year.

You can use the 65k baht income option to apply for an extension of stay based upon retirement. Just show a bank statement from the bank showing the 65k baht coming in and a letter from the bank to validate your account.

An update on Phuket Town Immigration.

An acquaintance , on hearing of the changes , started bringing in 65k from the US in January , only  a few days after reading the ruling.

So he had 4 deposits when he applied to extend his Retirement Visa last week. He also had about 250k in baht in his bank here.

He was refused , "not enough payments" being the reason.

Last I heard he was going back to the US to make a new Retirement Visa based on 800k in a US bank.

 

Anyone know what he "should " have had in the way of money to have successfully extended ?