Look at the department stores, new shopping malls, upgrading infrastructure, multiplex cinemas, regeneration plans for walking street etc coming soon.... this is not the tell-tale sign of a city that's dying - IT'S THE OPPOSITE. Tourist statistics will always fluctuate and will only be a matter of time before it gets back to where it was a couple of years ago - indeed it's understandable that numbers are reportedly down considering last year Thailand undergone a glut of bad publicity. Also taking into account that Pattaya is a growing city, sometimes it seems quieter than it actually is at times. Think squirrels, think nuts.

I quite agree.

A classic David Brent line...

''What does a squirrel do in the summer? It buries nuts. Why? Cos then in winter time he's got something to eat and he won't die. So, collecting nuts in the summer is worthwhile work. Every task you do at work think, would a squirrel do that? Think squirrels. Think nuts''.

I agree with this but do you really think the powers-that-be will do anything to stop the "glut of bad publicity"? (Well, aside from muzzling the press).

Try getting your head out of the sand and reading news about Seripisuth, the Police Chief. It might help.

Pattaya will get better, then it will get worse, then it will get better. That's how it goes. We just have to hope the long term trend is up, not down.

Well I guess that's it. A couple of people that don't like Pattaya have declared it "dead". Time to pack my bags and head out to beat the exodus of ex-pats and tourists.

Wow. I wonder where places like Las Vegas, Atlantic City, Amsterdam and Rome would now if people had declared them "dead" at various times in their histories ? Maybe if we declared London, New York, Paris, Munich, Budapest, Rio de Janeiro and a few other places "dead", then the tourists would stop going there and the crime rates would drop, sleaze and corruption would disappear overnight and the quality of life for the residents would improve dramatically !

There's probably people in Acalpulco, Athens, Monaco, Ibiza, Costa Rica and other similar places whining about how those places are "dead" and people should avoid them.

Reminds me of the people who complain about a certain program on a certain TV channel. Those poor unfortunates that for some reason can't change the channel or turn it off, but are forced to watch something they don't like and then bitch about it. Tragic.

I wonder though, why do these people devote so much time and energy into trying to convince people that Pattaya is "dead", Pattaya has reached the "tipping point", Pattaya isn't safe for tourists/ex-pats, ect, ect.

Why don't they put some of that time and energy into finding that perfect place to live ? Where there is no crime, corruption or sleaze, where they don't have to worry about visas or taxes, where the weather is perfect year-round, where the streets are uncrowded, everyone obeys the traffic laws, the roads/water/power/sewage/telephone systems are all perfectly maintained, the exchange rate continually favours your home currency and vendors only offer what you want, when you want it ?

Wanna bet that if such a place existed, there'd still be people that would find something to bitch about it ?

Where there is no crime, corruption or sleaze, where they don't have to worry about visas or taxes, where the weather is perfect year-round, where the streets are uncrowded, everyone obeys the traffic laws, the roads/water/power/sewage/telephone systems are all perfectly maintained, the exchange rate continually favours your home currency and vendors only offer what you want, when you want it ?

That place is Cambodia according to the OP. He's declared that he's moving there next month.

P.S. You all can look at the OP's previous posts.

Well said Kerry, totaly agree with you.

I agree with this but do you really think the powers-that-be will do anything to stop the "glut of bad publicity"? (Well, aside from muzzling the press).

Try getting your head out of the sand and reading news about Seripisuth, the Police Chief. It might help.

hmmmm...........the new guy is going to turn around the most corrupt police force in Thailand ........yea right he'll clean things up straight away......

Meanwhile, the bodies are piling up.......the muggings continue.........

Just keep chanting, "It WILL get better, it WILL get better, it WILL get better.......

Don't expect Pattaya to "bounce back next year".

It's on a slippery slope to a ghost town.

Too much crime, too much corruption, too much xenophobic nationalism.

Sure, the bar/restaurant owners will get on here and talk up the town to try and protect their investments, but the fact is everyone here(who is honest with themselves)can see it dying a painful death.

I just wonder what the BiB are going to do now to earn(yeah right) a crust this coming slow season when we start moving out. How are those 5000 baht salaries looking without tea money now boys? You shouldn't have bitten the hand that feeds. Sum num naa.

Another one leaving Patters and cant go without having a last snipe and posting absolute rubbish.

Slippery slope to a ghost town?.......you mean that you cant hack it here and you think that you will in Cambodia?

The truth is as you know dgoz the place is heaving with massive new infrastructure and gradually bringing in more family tourists and couples.

Maybe you are relating to some of the seedy bars and businesses which have long overrun their sell by date and should have gone years ago.

You should get out more and see the place bustling not dying.

As Pattaya changes then new businesses will prosper........but if you think that Cambodia is your answer then good luck to you.

I've heard the "Pattaya is dying" many times before over many years but every year I come back for my 6 Months there are more shops, more condos, more apartments, more bars, more everything.

Pattaya will never die, my favourite bars and restaurants are still full, shops are busy and of course the roads are clogged with all the Thai visitors, hardly an image of a dying town.

I've heard the "Pattaya is dying" many times before over many years but every year I come back for my 6 Months there are more shops, more condos, more apartments, more bars, more everything.

Pattaya will never die, my favourite bars and restaurants are still full, shops are busy and of course the roads are clogged with all the Thai visitors, hardly an image of a dying town.

Agreed, these "pattaya's dying" topics are a complete waste of time written by people who don't even live here.

My numbers are up on last year and business is still looking good.

Agreed that we need to lose the russian tourists though.

That place is Cambodia according to the OP. He's declared that he's moving there next month.

P.S. You all can look at the OP's previous posts.

Yeah that's right. Getting in on the ground floor like a few did in Pattaya about 30 years ago.

Sure, there are some businesses thriving, but I'm speaking in general.

And just because "they" are building more shopping malls and condos doesn't mean more people are coming, it just means some over-cashed pension fund/property group is having a punt.

A "well-connected" Thai superstar singer paid 25 million bt for a very nice guest house/bar/restaurant in Soi Buakhoaw a year ago. He just sold it at a loss without having a customer in there for months. My friend has been trying to sell his house and a condo at considerable losses for the past 3 months without even a nibble.

I'm part of a group that's pouring a large some into a major project in Cambodia. We think (and hope) it will reap nice rewards but it's actually just a punt.The same as these people building in Pattaya.

All around S/E Asia there are half finished projects. So just because a few companies are building doesn't mean they're right. The bad press Thailand is receiving around the world right now is doing long term damage.How can it not? We all know how fickle and frightened people are back in Farangland. When they see military coups, bombings, shootings of tourists etc it takes a while for them to think it's safe again. I'm sure some people still equate Cambodia with the Khmer Rouge.

The only people that could've kept Patters afloat this coming low season are the very people that the govt is successfully trying to stop coming; The long term visa-running piss pot.

Dying????...maybe if you are a paranoid, jaundiced Westerner with a completely Western-centric outlook...otherwise I would say it is quite the opposite and flies in the face of all doom and gloom predictions for the rest of Thailand. The only drop in tourism has come form the Brits and other western countries, the Asian and East European figures are soaring. Building continues everywhere, new bars new hotels, restaurants open everywhere...even a new motorway (I can't believe they're actually doing that!)...what exactly does this have inn common with a dead or dying town?

as for properties lying empty...that is a symptom of property law not the economy, and has been going on for decades.

Edited March 9, 200719 yr by wilko

I would like to agree with the above poster. If you venture into a business and provide a service that is scarce or not available anywhere else, you will do well here.

Also, in my opinion, Pattaya has overbuilt to the point that the "attributes" of Pattaya have seeped in the Naklua (to the North) and Jomtien (to the South).

I'm providing a service which is very rarely avalible in Ptty, I run a small project managment company, overseeing the building of houses, we have been very quite this year

Well I guess that's it. A couple of people that don't like Pattaya have declared it "dead". Time to pack my bags and head out to beat the exodus of ex-pats and tourists.

Wow. I wonder where places like Las Vegas, Atlantic City, Amsterdam and Rome would now if people had declared them "dead" at various times in their histories ? Maybe if we declared London, New York, Paris, Munich, Budapest, Rio de Janeiro and a few other places "dead", then the tourists would stop going there and the crime rates would drop, sleaze and corruption would disappear overnight and the quality of life for the residents would improve dramatically !

There's probably people in Acalpulco, Athens, Monaco, Ibiza, Costa Rica and other similar places whining about how those places are "dead" and people should avoid them.

Reminds me of the people who complain about a certain program on a certain TV channel. Those poor unfortunates that for some reason can't change the channel or turn it off, but are forced to watch something they don't like and then bitch about it. Tragic.

I wonder though, why do these people devote so much time and energy into trying to convince people that Pattaya is "dead", Pattaya has reached the "tipping point", Pattaya isn't safe for tourists/ex-pats, ect, ect.

Why don't they put some of that time and energy into finding that perfect place to live ? Where there is no crime, corruption or sleaze, where they don't have to worry about visas or taxes, where the weather is perfect year-round, where the streets are uncrowded, everyone obeys the traffic laws, the roads/water/power/sewage/telephone systems are all perfectly maintained, the exchange rate continually favours your home currency and vendors only offer what you want, when you want it ?

Wanna bet that if such a place existed, there'd still be people that would find something to bitch about it ?

You could be talking about my small village home in southern England.

I would like to agree with the above poster. If you venture into a business and provide a service that is scarce or not available anywhere else, you will do well here.

Also, in my opinion, Pattaya has overbuilt to the point that the "attributes" of Pattaya have seeped in the Naklua (to the North) and Jomtien (to the South).

I'm providing a service which is very rarely avalible in Ptty, I run a small project managment company, overseeing the building of houses, we have been very quite this year

Good luck to you mate. Never mind the Patters is dead crowd. Sadly in your line of work just about the whole of the country has come to halt due to the blinkered get Thaksin Brigade and never mind the cost. However, if you can survive, things will get better. The infra-structure in Patters is improving and although understandably the exapat house buyers/builders are on the sidelines, I still believe pragmatism will win through and regulations will change. Good luck and keep going.

And who are your customers? If any?

The reason that many businesses are not doing well in Pattaya is not because it is dead. It is because because there are too many places selling the same exact thing.

No matter how busy Pattaya is, if you have a bar or massage shop every two feet all over the whole city almost no one will do well other than those who are innovative and provide something the others aren't.

Capitalism at its finest.

It is comparatively dead this season

Property is NOT selling because nobody much is interested in the current climate

Crime, zenophobia, disrespect and corruption are all getting worse

Thailand's image abroad is suffering

The economy is getting worse (confirmed by reports, revised growth figures and reduced interest rates to stimulate economy)

Feel good factor has turned since the post Coup. Government now facing calls of mediocre and will the military allow a smooth transition to a democratic (or as close as we can hope) government

A few hiccups lately - Visa changes, company scheme enforcement, 30% witholding tax very poorly handled (caused stock market drop), Police keener on corruption than proactive policing (never heard of it - not my responsibility), Amendment to foriegn buisness Act (nominee), lets not forget the other rip-offs, crime, murder, etc ..........................

It's also rather dangerous to drive and polluted and dangerous to ride a bike around here in the crazy wild East. Watch out if you have an accident, as you will be blamed if at all possible!

Finally, Thai's are usually looking for a (money) angle in any association. Rarely can you find a relationship (friend, partner etc) where financial requests are not forthcoming eventually, and if not, then almost immediately, as a general rule and especially in Pattaya.

There ARE an awfull lot of negatives and the only agreement I have with the starry eyed Pattaya lovers, is that you only come to really learn about them after a prolonged spell living here and that means going out of the front door!

For all of this there are only 3 reasons (and they remain) why we are all here (for now at least).

1. It's cheap(er)

2. It's sunny and warm (hot)

3. The women (the nice and genuine ones)

Most other issues are reasons to return home, although fortunately for most the balance or our responsibilities or lack of funds still keep us here.

Edited March 9, 200719 yr by twix38

This is the sort of thing thats killing Pattaya.

.........................................

Aggressive and Drunken Farangs

The Pattaya police received a report at 3.15 am on 5th March that a group of foreign tourists were having a fight at the entrance to Soi 3,

Pattaya 2nd Road, just opposite Big C Supermarket so rushed to the scene with Sawang Boriboon rescuers to investigate.

At the scene, the team found a group of foreigners fighting so separated them and then sent the injured, known only as Peter, aged 44 to the hospital for treatment.

Witnesses told the police that these two gangs were fighting at a bar earlier in the night and couldn't sort it out. Later, a Mr. Michael left and came back with over

10 more friends and started attacking Peter's group that had only 5 members, which caused them injuries.

The police were only able to capture one of the attackers, which was Michael himself so detained him and took him back to the police station, and is waiting for Peter to recover to press charges.

that too

Don't expect Pattaya to "bounce back next year".

It's on a slippery slope to a ghost town.

Too much crime, too much corruption, too much xenophobic nationalism.

Sure, the bar/restaurant owners will get on here and talk up the town to try and protect their investments, but the fact is everyone here(who is honest with themselves)can see it dying a painful death.

I just wonder what the BiB are going to do now to earn(yeah right) a crust this coming slow season when we start moving out. How are those 5000 baht salaries looking without tea money now boys? You shouldn't have bitten the hand that feeds. Sum num naa.

Hate to admit it but I think you're right.

This years so called high season was very quiet and this week has been very dead.

I think the Thais have cooked the goose that laid the golden egg.

Two of the most hateful and ignorant posters on TV have now joined force. Who would have thought?

Waheeh!!

You have completed the trilogy!!!

Yeah, the tourists are fleeing Thailand en masse.

Air passenger growth a brisk 12.6% in 2006

Unrest, Suvarnabhumi woes not big factors

BOONSONG KOSITCHOTETHANA

Traffic through Thailand's six major airports grew robustly last year despite concerns that the September coup, teething problems at the new Suvarnabhumi airport and the transition from the old Don Muang airport would all adversely affect tourism.

Total passenger movements _ embarking, disembarking and transit _ through the airports operated by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) rose by 12.6% year-on-year to 53.03 million. The airports are Suvarnabhumi, Don Muang, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Hat Yai and Chiang Rai.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/09Mar2007_biz60.php

everyone is half right

pattaya days of old were quiet ten months a year and then we dealt with th influx of freaks for two. up until last year it seemd the trend had 100% reversed. i have been away this high season but all my friends are hatin' on pty including me.

between the freaks, the garbage, the traffic in streets and bkk-pty, THE OVER DEVELOPMENT, the water pollution and esp the violent crime - we have had enough. maybe with the visa situation, things are changing.

another eason i have to leave pty and thailand is that as an amerikkkan it no longer represents the value it once did. baht/usd - $ is down nearly 25% from a few years ago. so its no longer a base but rather a holiday from trekking or other wanderings in asia.

i may relocate to cebu, ive had my fill of cambodia years ago.

i dont think its xenophobia - people working in pattaya has seen the WORST western ill mannered louts and they have just had enough. try learning an honest bit of thai, being polite and dressing with a collar shirt. see what happens.

there will always be whore-mongers queing in pty the way faux hippies will always go to goa/manali - but its WAY past its sell by date.

we can only hope pattaya cleans itself up, value baht plunges, we are back to where we were with visa runs.

i found pattaya as long-term stay when the islands got pricey/schemey. why travel 10 hours for a beach. pattaya wa great...it had a bad reputation so everyone gave it a miss.

Pattaya will never die a painful death, it may have to re-invent itself at some point in the future although i can't see that happening anytime soon. Pattaya is what it is and you either love it or hate it, and i am sure for every unhappy person here there are 00's are more than content with their lives.

Even though Mr. Thaksin is out of the picture now, I still think that Pattaya will eventually become the center for legalized gambling in Thailand!

There is just too much money being spent in the casinos just over the borders. And, it's not just "Farang" money going over the border, there are a lot of Thai's spending their earnings across the border too!

The new airport is on the Pattaya side of Bangkok, the expressway is being improved and extended, lots of new condos and malls being built - I think it is only a matter of time before a casino comes to Pattaya!

A few hiccups lately - Visa changes, company scheme enforcement, 30% witholding tax very poorly handled (caused stock market drop), Police keener on corruption than proactive policing (never heard of it - not my responsibility), Amendment to foriegn buisness Act (nominee), lets not forget the other rip-offs, crime, murder, etc ..........................

To be brutally honest with you, I don't believe that company scheme enforcement, 30% witholding, and amendment to the FBA will ever impact a visitor of your interests (or your kind).

As for the rip-offs, crime and murder, I don't think Pattaya is any worse than any other "similar" major tourist desitinations in this world. I'm still waiting for someone to provide concerete envidence to convince me otherwise.

The reason that many businesses are not doing well in Pattaya is not because it is dead. It is because because there are too many places selling the same exact thing.

No matter how busy Pattaya is, if you have a bar or massage shop every two feet all over the whole city almost no one will do well other than those who are innovative and provide something the others aren't.

Capitalism at its finest.

That is exactly right UG. I note this often, e.g. 2 new apartment blocks get built and fitted out and they ready for rent. The first one has a 15" TV an no kettle or air con and thinks he will be rich by year end so charges 15K a Month, the result is as always very few customers. The second block built looks good too but the guys there have 21" TV's, air con, small kitchen on the balcony and charge 8K a Month, guess what all the rooms are rented out! The reason why businesses go bad is because they don't know what people want and how much they will pay for the goods on offer, this is to our advantage by the way.

Let’s use Monty as an example. I don't know Monty, it seems as he has built some accommodation to rent and it must be well appointed and for the right price, that is why he must build more rooms to supply the demand. Meanwhile a deadbeat hotel like the Sunbeam on soi 8 is 90% empty. Just look at how many lights are on and how much activity there is there, bugger all.

This is the sort of thing thats killing Pattaya.

.........................................

Aggressive and Drunken Farangs

The Pattaya police received a report at 3.15 am on 5th March that a group of foreign tourists were having a fight at the entrance to Soi 3,

Pattaya 2nd Road, just opposite Big C Supermarket so rushed to the scene with Sawang Boriboon rescuers to investigate.

At the scene, the team found a group of foreigners fighting so separated them and then sent the injured, known only as Peter, aged 44 to the hospital for treatment.

Witnesses told the police that these two gangs were fighting at a bar earlier in the night and couldn't sort it out. Later, a Mr. Michael left and came back with over

10 more friends and started attacking Peter's group that had only 5 members, which caused them injuries.

The police were only able to capture one of the attackers, which was Michael himself so detained him and took him back to the police station, and is waiting for Peter to recover to press charges.

Undercover, good try but in all the years I've been coming Pattaya I have never been in a fight. Geeeeezzzz I mean there is 4,500 bars to drink in, if some yobs want to take on the world I check bin and go the next soi down where it is probably much better fun most of the time anyway. I avoid this kind of crap and it is not hard to do, don't get mislead by the stories, if 60,70 and 80 year old men can avoid that crap I'm sure anyone else can too.

Yeah, the tourists are fleeing Thailand en masse.

Air passenger growth a brisk 12.6% in 2006

Unrest, Suvarnabhumi woes not big factors

BOONSONG KOSITCHOTETHANA

Traffic through Thailand's six major airports grew robustly last year despite concerns that the September coup, teething problems at the new Suvarnabhumi airport and the transition from the old Don Muang airport would all adversely affect tourism.

Total passenger movements _ embarking, disembarking and transit _ through the airports operated by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) rose by 12.6% year-on-year to 53.03 million. The airports are Suvarnabhumi, Don Muang, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Hat Yai and Chiang Rai.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/09Mar2007_biz60.php

Nothing in that article says whether the increased number of the passengers are tourists or business people or diplomats or Thais or people in transit.

And the data given is year-over-year which contrasts 2006 to 2005. 2005 figures show tourism decreased versus 2004. So seeing an increase for 2006 is about as surprising as seeing the sun rise in the east. Probably not a dead cat bounce, this time anyway.

Yeah, the tourists are fleeing Thailand en masse.

Air passenger growth a brisk 12.6% in 2006

Unrest, Suvarnabhumi woes not big factors

BOONSONG KOSITCHOTETHANA

Traffic through Thailand's six major airports grew robustly last year despite concerns that the September coup, teething problems at the new Suvarnabhumi airport and the transition from the old Don Muang airport would all adversely affect tourism.

Total passenger movements _ embarking, disembarking and transit _ through the airports operated by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) rose by 12.6% year-on-year to 53.03 million. The airports are Suvarnabhumi, Don Muang, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Hat Yai and Chiang Rai.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/09Mar2007_biz60.php

Nothing in that article says whether the increased number of the passengers are tourists or business people or diplomats or Thais or people in transit.

And the data given is year-over-year which contrasts 2006 to 2005. 2005 figures show tourism decreased versus 2004. So seeing an increase for 2006 is about as surprising as seeing the sun rise in the east. Probably not a dead cat bounce, this time anyway.

If you read it properly, you would see that it was an increase of 12.6% which could roughly translate to about 4 or 5 million people. So I'm pretty sure that when all the business people, diplomats, Thais, and diplomats were taken into account, it would still represent a largue chunk of increase in the number of tourists.

As for your second point, I also would like to point out that the coup happened in September of last year. There were still four months or so left in the year for any scared or reluctant tourists to never come to Thailand, but it didn't happen. They still came and contributed to this record number. Any sensible person would think that the number of visitors to Thailand should have dropped siginificantly after the coup, and no it didn't happen. The drop would have been more certain as the sunrise in east, don't you THINK?

Also the last point is that the numbers practically countered any claims that tourism in Thailand and Pattaya are dying. How is it dying when the number increases significantly from the previous year? Any logical explanantion for this?

Yeah, the tourists are fleeing Thailand en masse.

Air passenger growth a brisk 12.6% in 2006

Unrest, Suvarnabhumi woes not big factors

BOONSONG KOSITCHOTETHANA

Traffic through Thailand's six major airports grew robustly last year despite concerns that the September coup, teething problems at the new Suvarnabhumi airport and the transition from the old Don Muang airport would all adversely affect tourism.

Total passenger movements _ embarking, disembarking and transit _ through the airports operated by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) rose by 12.6% year-on-year to 53.03 million. The airports are Suvarnabhumi, Don Muang, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Hat Yai and Chiang Rai.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/09Mar2007_biz60.php

Nothing in that article says whether the increased number of the passengers are tourists or business people or diplomats or Thais or people in transit.

And the data given is year-over-year which contrasts 2006 to 2005. 2005 figures show tourism decreased versus 2004. So seeing an increase for 2006 is about as surprising as seeing the sun rise in the east. Probably not a dead cat bounce, this time anyway.

If you read it properly, you would see that it was an increase of 12.6% which could roughly translate to about 4 or 5 million people. So I'm pretty sure that when all the business people, diplomats, Thais, and diplomats were taken into account, it would still represent a largue chunk of increase in the number of tourists.

As for your second point, I also would like to point out that the coup happened in September of last year. There were still four months or so left in the year for any scared or reluctant tourists to never come to Thailand, but it didn't happen. They still came and contributed to this record number. Any sensible person would think that the number of visitors to Thailand should have dropped siginificantly after the coup, and no it didn't happen. The drop would have been more certain as the sunrise in east, don't you THINK?

Also the last point is that the numbers practically countered any claims that tourism in Thailand and Pattaya are dying. How is it dying when the number increases significantly from the previous year? Any logical explanantion for this?

None of which puts real tourism numbers anywhere close to where they should be if the trends of the late 90's and early 00's had continued. The Thai tourism candle is sputtering and will likely go out soon.

You also fail to recognize that tourism is in effect a zero sum game. The only meaningful comparison is to whether provable Thai tourism increased in real terms versus other destinations.

There are only so many people in the world with the means to travel and they are competed for by all potential destinations, with only slight advantages to Thailand for it's proximity to the new money in the economies of Russia and China. Once those new tourists catch up to the rest of the world in terms of sophistication in travel tastes, they too will recognize what an overall poor travel value Thailand is in general and Pattaya iis specifically. But as long as the mailand Chinese are content to be herded like cattle and the Russians (and others) don't know any better, there will still be spurts of growth at times.

The flat numbers in 2005 were a result of the tsunami in 2004 more than any other cause. So of course 2006 was going to look good and there still would have been positive growth solely from the recovery before the coup, unless the coup turned into a shooting war which of course did not eventuate.

To bring the focus back to Pattaya and your link, the article said nothing at all about the purposes or itineraries of the people entering Thailand. Until you can demonstrate that those passengers are tourists and are going to Pattaya in significant numbers rather than other Thai destinations* your link and the argument you are trying to build around it have little merit in the context of this thread.

* (Or even remaining in Thailand! The irony of Suvarnabhumi as "Hub of Asia" is too much fun as it simplifies transits to Cambodia and Vietnam and will probably help promote those destinations more in the long term than any net benefit to Thai tourism.)

Once they get the Family tourist here things will be different.

I wonder what could attract Family tourist in the shithole that is Pattaya, no clean air nor clean beach and water, too much noise, no scenery.

The 2 days I've spent there were the worst of my 17 years in Thailand.