Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[george]

Islamists warn Thailand visitors

BANGKOK — Muslim militants are warning the "people of the world" not to visit Phuket, a wealthy, tourist playground thus far untouched by the Muslim insurgency of southern Thailand.

Phuket island, with floating bars set amid lush resorts with meticulously coifed foliage, rustic wooden bridges, stone paths and palm trees, remains untouched by the militants. But a recent harsh warning by the United Front for the Independence of Pattani, a feared guerrilla group usually referred to as Bersatu, included Phuket.

It was posted on the "official Web site" of the Pattani United Liberation Organization (PULO), which forms part of the united front along with the Mujahideen Pattani Movement and two smaller rebel groups.

The unusual, one-paragraph "message from Bersatu" said: "Dear people of the world, persons who plan to visit Thailand NOW are warned not to travel to Pattani Raya Region Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, Satun, Songkhla and the neighbor provinces [of] Phuket, Pangnga, Krabi, Pattalung. Pattani people are not responsible for anything [that] happens to you after this warning."

Thailand's worst day of bloodshed in decades occurred on April 28 in the southern provinces of Pattani, Yala and Songkhla, where Thai troops clashed with Islamic militants, killing at least 107.

Pattani's small Krue Se mosque became a blood-spattered slaughterhouse when Thai troops killed all 32 persons inside.

Three policemen and two soldiers also died in the scattered clashes, bringing the one-day death toll to at least 112.

Phuket is northwest of that troubled area and is Thailand's jewel, a place so prosperous that it enjoys a virtual parallel economy compared to the rest of the country.

Pangnga and Krabi also attract tourists, including international backpackers seeking cheap natural splendor, freaky rock formations and hedonistic outdoor parties.

The insurgents' warning was not dated and did not indicate why it was posted, but apparently the bloodshed in April angered the shadowy, illegal group.

The only other announcement in English on the Web site was a plea by the group "urging the Thai authorities to investigate at least 60 people [who] disappeared" during security sweeps between Jan. 5 and April 9.

That demand was signed by the group's deputy president, Lukman B. Lima, who was believed to be in exile in Sweden.

In May 2003, Mr. Lima boasted Thai security forces were "falling like leaves" in southern Thailand because Muslims were rising up in "liberation movements" against "colonial" repression practiced by Thailand's majority Buddhists.

Thailand's Islamic guerrillas are too weak to occupy any territory, so they unleash surprise attacks and rapidly disperse, hitting targets in the south such as police and army posts, government buildings, Buddhist temples, plantations and nightclubs. They often kill people at the sites with machetes or other light weapons.

They have burned dozens of government schools, which teach a Thai curriculum loathed by the minority ethnic Malay rebels who prefer the Yawi dialect of Malay language and religious lessons in Arabic.

--The Washington Times 2004-05-30

[Pink Mist]

well that solves that dilemma, pattaya it is.

[castelleone]

Maybe I am being pessimistic, but I am afraid, like the bird`s flu also this our "southern muslim problem" is not yet resolved and will occupy us all still for some time.

[KevinN]

There is only one way to deal with this problem and so far it hasn't been done.

[Bob Chittie]

There is only one way to deal with this problem and so far it hasn't been done.

You have the solution that not one person in the world can find? Please do enlighten us.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there is no immediate solution. Over the next couple centuries, through education and increased equality throughout the world, we can hope that this will subside. No matter what you do now; no matter how many fanatics you kill, no matter how many walls you build, it will continue.

In the mean time, I hate to say it, but Phuket seems a very obvious target and I imagine its only a matter of time. I hope I am wrong.

[SeaVisionBurma]

I hope you are wrong too. I seriously doubt they would bother with Phuket, this southern Pattani mob.

If ever something was to happen, it is more likely that extremists from further away would have a go at a soft target such as Patong.

As long as everyone is sensible in their movements, and stays off the main drag during busy times, New Year, holidays etc - then I wouldn't think Phuket as any more of a risk than it has been until now.

I won't stop going there.

[taxexile]

In the mean time, I hate to say it, but Phuket seems a very obvious target and I imagine its only a matter of time. I hope I am wrong.

do any of the bars,hotels and restaurants have any security checks at the doors, are cars and bikes still being parked everywhere, are the local police watchful.

have any of the business owners instigated meetings of other owners to put some security measures into effect?

or doesn't anybody give a ###### or have any idea what a nail and explosive packed car or motorbike or suitcase can do to a wide area and all the people in it.

just keep drinking and keep those tills filling up.

easy targets.

[Yohan]

As I said in some other threads, Thai government should become more active in this affair. To kill some young people by police and soldiers is not a longterm solution.

Thailand, a country with 93 percent Buddhist population as majority has nothing together with the 6 percent of people, who are Moslems by religion..

First of all, all these radical Arab teachers, who are not even Thai nationals, have to be ordered out of Thailand. Radical Arab related Islamic schools must be shut down.

Radical Thai Muslims, who are holding dual citizenship, have to be expelled to Malaysia, and their citizenship must be revoked. No entry for lifetime.

Radical Thai Muslims who are holder of Thai citizenship, have to be forced into exil, or have to be sent to prison.

This will help Southern Thailand moderate Muslim leaders to talk with their own people to calm down.

The problem is all, what is radical, and this must be removed....

About Phuket and other tourist centers:

Thai Muslims are considering Buddhism and the King of Thailand as their enemy. Foreigners are not their direct target.

Their target are public schools, Buddhist temples, railway, postoffice, police, practically any government related organisation.

South Thailand situation is different from the international conflicts like Afghanistan or Iraq. South Thailand is a conflict of Islam with ThaiBuddhism, and not with Christianity.

Johann

[taxexile]

Foreigners are not their direct target

bomb a tourist destination full of foriegners and tourist arrivals will drop

that will hurt thailand a lot.

kills two birds with one stone.

muslim extremists are all for one and one for all. westerners are most certainly targeted, anywhere in the world.

otherwise why would they bother to warn us "dear people"

"Dear people of the world, persons who plan to visit Thailand NOW are warned not to travel to Pattani Raya Region Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, Satun, Songkhla and the neighbor provinces [of] Phuket, Pangnga, Krabi, Pattalung. Pattani people are not responsible for anything [that] happens to you after this warning."

[maerim]

In the 70s in the U.K. the IRA targeted civilian targets for the simple reason is that are "soft" targets just have a look what they did in the pub bombings in Guilford and other places a few years ago they managed to blow up half of Manchester one Saturday morning.

Its not much good appealing to their sense of decency as they don't have one and what they said is that the security forces have to be lucky 100% of the time, they on the other hand have to be lucky once.

I have seen first hand the devastation caused by quite small bombs its terrifying and thats what they want, people to be terrified.

[eric1000]

easy to check vehicles going onto phuket island , there is only 1 way in and out.

Thaksin will just have to be more proactive with plain clothes guys in the area .

swamp the area with soldiers and police

[taxexile]

easy to check vehicles going onto phuket island , there is only 1 way in and out.

Thaksin will just have to be more proactive with plain clothes guys in the area .

swamp the area with soldiers and police

are they checking the hundreds of fishing boats that come into the muslim fishing villages that are scattered all around the coastline. think what they could bring in and load onto a truck one night.

easy targets.

[Johpa]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there is no immediate solution. Over the next couple centuries, through education and increased equality throughout the world, we can hope that this will subside.

And how can we expect increased equality around the world when even in the land of the great infidels, Ahmerica, increased inequality is the theme of the day? If there is any trend towards equality it is the evening out of incomes as a result of globalization. That would mean very, very modest increases in income amongst the third world folks and major losses of income amongst the majority of residents of the G-7 nations. DO the math. But that won't stop Thomas Friedman from dining with his rich and shameless heros trying to absorb their perceived glory through proximity

A decade ago Samuel Huntington saw this clash of cultures looming. And over 70 years ago Aldous Huxley, in Brave New World, prophecised that liberalism would die with the first anthrax bomb. It is not easy to be an optimist these days with idiots like George W Bush in positions of power. Given the ever increasing existence and availablity of WMDs, I doubt we have centuries to solve the issues.

[Yohan]

are they checking the hundreds of fishing boats that come into the muslim fishing villages that are scattered all around the coastline. think what they could bring in and load onto a truck one night.

easy targets.

Yes, they do this for many years - Thai Navy is very active and stopping any fishing boat in and near the golf of Songkhla, boats are searched - all crew must have ID, and all on the ships will be photographed and fingerprinted for the files of the Thai Navy. Any boat refusing to stop for search will be fired on... this is done already since many years, but the South of Thailand is not tourist area and therefore foreigners do not really care about it.

It is not difficult for the Thai Navy to start similar operations near Krabi and Phuket.

Thai Navy is very active near Ranong because of the Burma border anyway.

Phuket is not an interesting target for the radical South Thai Muslim - this is my opinion.

More important targets are the off-shore drillings, the huge gas-tanks in the port of Songkhla, the business district and railway in Hadyai, the Buddhist historical sites like Wat Pha Koo near Sathing Phra, the important bridges over the Inland Sea of Kor Yor, pipelines for gas, power-plants for electricity...

plenty of targets, which are considered as symbols against the Thai Moslem.

Phuket and such areas are too far, too unknown for any useful propaganda of resistance among the Muslims in Pattani, Narathiwat and Yala area....

Johann

[Felt 35]

You have the solution that not one person in the world can find? Please do enlighten us.

The roots!

[chingy_]

all the farang down there in phuket should arm themself, hand gun, uzi, mg, ak what ever you have, just shoot anything that look like rebel muslim

[maerim]

just shoot anything that look like rebel muslim

Before they get tooled up can you tell us what they look like?

[Up2U]

easy to check vehicles going onto phuket island , there is only 1 way in and out.

Thaksin will just have to be more proactive with plain clothes guys in the area .

swamp the area with soldiers and police

What do you expect to see? A big box labelled 'BOMB'?

I promise you I could smuggle all the necessary components of a fair-sized bomb into any holiday resort. (Maybe not into the British or US Embassies, but certainly into an apartment ready to assemble). Most viable bombs are constructed out of components that have other, legitimate, uses.

The thing about Phuket is that there is really only a four-month tourist season. Too windy and wet apart from Nov-Feb. Park a car outside one of the disco's as done in Bali - say over New Year - and the casualty rate could be enormous.

How many people will stay in Patong, or return a second time, if the area is swarming with uniformed men carrying weapons?

[NedKelly]

Someone said earlier on this thread that it would be easy to check all vehicles entering Phuket as there was only one way in and out !!

Well sunshine yo ushow a lack of understanding of the area......phuket and mush of the surrounding islands have been the home to Muslim fishermen for many years and they know these waters like the back of thie rhands. I have a very good friend who is Islamic and comes from a fisher family........he has shown me around to places all over the area and displays a very good understanding of the geography.

So if a muslim extremist wants to infiltrate Phuket or PHI Phi then he may just be able to do it with ease fromthe sea.

[Yohan]

So if a muslim extremist wants to infiltrate Phuket or PHI Phi then he may just be able to do it with ease fromthe sea.

As I said in my previous posting in the same thread, this is not so easy, due to Thai Navy activity...they have longtime experience in Songkhla, but also on the other side near Ranong and to some extend also in Satun, Pulau Langkawi.

Easy for the Thai Navy to check out between Krabi and Phuket.....

Anyway, not really an useful target for Thai Muslims....

Targets are more around Hadyai and Songkhla, like the offshore drillings, the gas-tanks, housings of foreigners living there because of the petrol companies, the petrol companies themselves, the factories there, railway and postoffice, police and schools, airports in Hadyai and Songkhla...and so on...and so on....

Johann

[splitlid]

arrrr yes Yohan the amazing Thai navy.

just look at the air craft carrier and submarines they have.fine pieces of equipment.

shame no one knows how to work them!!

im sure the navy has absolutely no ability to check all boats coming and going into Phuket!

or do they have hundreds of ships(boats) scouring the open seas?

[Yohan]

arrrr yes Yohan the amazing Thai navy.

just look at the air craft carrier and submarines they have.fine pieces of equipment.

shame no one knows how to work them!!

im sure the navy has absolutely no ability to check all boats coming and going into Phuket!

or do they have hundreds of ships(boats) scouring the open seas?

Phuket is not an interesting target anyway...too far to make propaganda to find support among the Muslims in the South provinces....

They want to see resistance in their own area....

I told you in my last posting, what are possible targets...

Up to now, these targets are good protected by the Thai Navy, I do not know about major accidents along the costline or the offshore drillings. This dangerous unrest in South Thailand is anyway nothing new....

You need not hundreds of ships to search the open sea....

For example, for a total blockade of the port of Songkhla you need only 3 ships....one outside near the offshore gas-fields, one near the port and one for the narrow passage of the inland sea....

And it is not the first time, that the Thai Navy was stopping and searching ALL fishing boats entering or leaving the port of Songkhla or other smaller ports towards South - somehow daily routine since many years....

This is nothing new at all, but during the last 30 years it was neglected, because South Thailand is not a tourist area, and some Thai even are thinking, it is not Thailand anyway. About myself, I am not surprised about the present situation.

Johann

[splitlid]

i believe Phuket to be a great target,along with pattaya and certain places in Bangkok.

it wouldnt be an international event if they blew up a oil rig,but if they blew up a club in phuket full of westerners............oh hold on a minute.....didnt they do that in Bali?

now nobody would have ever thought that was a potential target.

[taxexile]

The unusual, one-paragraph "message from Bersatu" said: "Dear people of the world, persons who plan to visit Thailand NOW are warned not to travel to Pattani Raya Region Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, Satun, Songkhla and the neighbor provinces [of]Phuket, Pangnga, Krabi, Pattalung. Pattani people are not responsible for anything [that] happens to you after this warning."

yohan said

Phuket is not an interesting target anyway...too far to make propaganda to find support among the Muslims in the South provinces....

seems to me to be directed solely at tourists. most tourists are in phuket.

And it is not the first time, that the Thai Navy was stopping and searching ALL fishing boats entering or leaving the port of Songkhla or other smaller ports towards South - somehow daily routine since many years....

are they searching all the tiny boats that use the fishing villages on the east side of phuket.

[splitlid]

i think the point here is that whilst the governments may try and do everything they can to stop terrorist attacks,they can never do it 100%.

something will always get through.

which makes every tourist destionaltion,oil rig,disco, movie theatre, residential expat buildings, etc etc etc.....a potential target.

what we cant do is change our way of living. if its gonna happen it gonna happen

[Yohan]

The PULO organisation text was changed several times and your text is not correct anymore. It is pure propaganda to make foreigners worried. The new text is somewhat more polite.....asking tourists to choose a nearby country for vacation (Malaysia?)

There are other organisations too, not only PULO by the way.

This is the new text, changed some days ago:

Information

Persons who plan to visit Thailand,

Due to the political instability in Thailand, the provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, Satun, Songkhla, Phuket, Pangnga, Krabi, Pattalung and Bangkok are not safety places for you to visit. Please avoid to travel to the above-mentioned provinces or avoid to travel to Thailand for your own safety. You may enjoy your vacation with sun and sea in other neighbouring countries without any fear and no cause for alarm

splitlid Posted on Tue 2004-06-01, 10:37:32  i believe Phuket to be a great target,along with pattaya and certain places in Bangkok.

it wouldnt be an international event if they blew up a oil rig,but if they blew up a club in phuket full of westerners............oh hold on a minute.....didnt they do that in Bali? Now nobody would have ever thought that was a potential target.

In Indonesia are over 200 million Moslems, and there is wide support of violence and criminality against foreigners, Indonesia was never open towards foreigners like Thailand.

In Thailand are about totally 3 million Moslems, and about 1.3 million are living in the Southern provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat. - They do not have the wide support among the over 60 million Thai people. You cannot compare Bali and Phuket.

Johann

[Yohan]

i think the point here is that whilst the governments may try and do everything they can to stop terrorist attacks,they can never do it 100%.

something will always get through.

This is correct. If the attacker is ready to offer his own life, then it is very difficult to stop him. And fanatics are ready to offer the own life.....

You might guard some very important places, like airports, government buildings - but you cannot check all and everything...

As long as you are alive, your life is in danger....airplane might crash, hotel might be on fire, car might have an accident, or heart attack, or you might be the victim of criminality by a crazy guy, who blows you up with a bomb....

If you are the wrong man at the wrong place at the wrong time....then there is very little what you can do against it by yourself and very little what can be done to help you to avoid such situations.

Johann

[splitlid]

hey yohan, you live down south right?

any hostility towards you from these fanatics?

[Yohan]

hey yohan, you live down south right?

any hostility towards you from these fanatics?

I am visiting South Thailand for vacation since 1972 every year, later on followed my wife, my father, my parents in law and my children, all coming with me.

We never had any hostility against us by Moslems, not in South Thailand, and not on the other side in Malaysia (Kelantan, Terengganu, Kedah)

Malaysia was my first Asian country, at that time still together with my former Chinese girlfriend from Kedah, Malaysia.

I will be in Songkhla again coming July (in about 6 weeks) and will check the situation from there.

Any route south of Songkhla on the East Coast is ALWAYS critical and not without danger, and there are some places, I do not recommend you to be outside during nighttime, and if you go there, then go together with a Muslim man.

Return back early afternoon to avoid darkness, we usually stay in Songkhla - best place for nice vacation in South Thailand.....

Johann

[Nam Kao]

>>>>In Thailand are about totally 3 million Moslems

What a shame for such a nice country