Overhead lights glowing 24/7

[Gecko123]

I'm hoping someone can tell me what might be causing this problem and maybe how to diagnose and fix it (with or without an electrician).

 

About 2 months ago, I noticed that the overhead lights in the living room were dimly glowing at night even when shut off. I'm pretty sure they're glowing 24/7 even though it's hard to tell in the daytime. In the last few weeks I've noticed that this problem has spread to other, but not all fixtures in the house. Last few month's electricity bill has been higher than usual as well.

 

When I shut off the main breaker in the house, the problem stops, but if I leave the main breaker on and just switch off the individual breakers for the living rooms, the lights still glow. Even when I shut off all of the individual breakers, the problem persists. I am really baffled by this.

 

About 3-4 years ago, I replaced all of the neon light ballasts in the house with OSRAM EZ-Tronic ballasts (which don't need a starter). 

 

I'm just looking for some guidance as to what might be causing this problem and how to fix this problem. Any help much appreciated.

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Gecko123

[Chazar]

Bad  switch, reverse  polarity at  the  switch , leak to earth, borrowed  neutrals, take  your  pick.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Chazar

[Chazar]

39 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Last few month's electricity bill has been higher than usual as well.

Is  that  not  more  likely  due  to  the hot  season  though? more fan/aircon  use.

[bankruatsteve]

Check voltage between L-E and N-E at the CU.  If N-E voltage is 220V or so then your mains are switched.  

 

[Crossy]

As above, check L-N polarity at the incoming supply. If it is reversed it may be easier to swap at the meter (have you had a new meter recently?), but you really need a local sparks unless you are confident to work "live" (you probably aren't).

 

Also, check that the switch is in the live wire, switching the neutral turns the light on and off but can leave annoying glows when "off".

 

[Gecko123]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

As above, check L-N polarity at the incoming supply. If it is reversed it may be easier to swap at the meter (have you had a new meter recently?), but you really need a local sparks unless you are confident to work "live" (you probably aren't).

 

Also, check that the switch is in the live wire, switching the neutral turns the light on and off but can leave annoying glows when "off".

 

Wow!, Crossy. Yes, PEA installed a new meter about when this problem started, otherwise nothing with the lighting or circuit breaker panel has been changed. No electrical work done in the house. Are you saying I should contact PEA and check the main meter installation? I'm not seeing any problem in the house with any electrical appliances other than overhead lights. (no problems with fridge, TV, computer, fans).

[Crossy]

Do you have any test gear? Multimeter? Even a neon-screwdriver?

 

You can easily verify that this is the issue, if it is then call PEA and tell them that you have a problem.

 

In reality, it may be easier to get your local man to swap the wires at the meter ????

 

 

[Gecko123]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

Do you have any test gear? Multimeter? Even a neon-screwdriver?

 

You can easily verify that this is the issue, if it is then call PEA and tell them that you have a problem.

 

In reality, it may be easier to get your local man to swap the wires at the meter ????

 

 

No test gear, but willing to buy neon screw driver. Can you briefly explain how to verify if this is the problem?

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

No test gear, but willing to buy neon screw driver. Can you briefly explain how to verify if this is the problem?

Stick the screwdriver on any neutral wire, if it glows, it's reversed.

Very dangerous as none of your earth leakage trips will work.

My house was wired up like that when I moved in.

[Crossy]

OK, a trip to Tesco (or pretty much anywhere with hardware) and a few tens of Baht will net you the simplest piece of test kit available.

 

 

Many pro's don't like them but there are times when they are the only real solution.

 

Anyway, to use the beast you put your finger on the metal cap (not the pen clip) and touch the other end to the terminal you want to check. If you have a live the neon inside the handle will glow.

 

With the lid off your panel (care please, you need to test with the mains on) test the connections on the individual breakers themselves, the neon should glow (and we have a different problem).

 

If it doesn't check the (bare and possibly lethal) neutral bar where all the circuit neutrals are connected. A glow here means the PEA managed to swap your meter connections.

 

There's no immediate danger to life or equipment but it does need fixing as soon as possible.

 

[Gecko123]

Crossy:

I'm going to try and get PEA out to the house to check the meter installation as this problem did start to manifest itself around when the new meter was installed. Hopefully, they can do the circuit panel diagnostic in the house as well. As you have probably deduced already, my electrical skills are pretty minimal. Thank you very very much for your help.

 

Edit: Thanks for the comment about immediate danger, as I had a growing concern that there might be a fire hazard.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Gecko123

[steven100]

11 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Crossy:

I'm going to try and get PEA out to the house to check the meter installation as this problem did start to manifest itself around when the new meter was installed. Hopefully, they can do the circuit panel diagnostic in the house as well. As you have probably deduced already, my electrical skills are pretty minimal. Thank you very very much for your help.

 

Edit: Thanks for the comment about immediate danger, as I had a growing concern that there might be a fire hazard.

Gecko, I can confirm I have the same issue in this resort I am temporarily staying at. The 4 dimmer lights glow at night slightly 24/7 ... and the centre round light seems to glow more when it's raining heavy, it looks like the starter is glowing. I'll let the owner know.

[Crossy]

17 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I'm going to try and get PEA out to the house to check the meter installation as this problem did start to manifest itself around when the new meter was installed. Hopefully, they can do the circuit panel diagnostic in the house as well. As you have probably deduced already, my electrical skills are pretty minimal. Thank you very very much for your help.

 

Like many Thai institutions your local PEA may not get off their fat backsides without some form of evidence that there's an issue.

 

A photo of a neon glowing happily on the neutral ought to get them moving rather faster than a farang with a "perceived problem" (your power is on, what more could you want?).

 

[Gecko123]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Like many Thai institutions your local PEA may not get off their fat backsides without some form of evidence that there's an issue.

 

A photo of a neon glowing happily on the neutral ought to get them moving rather faster than a farang with a "perceived problem" (your power is on, what more could you want?).

 

I'm taking lots of pictures for my show-and-tell presentation. I'm out in the countryside, just a small PEA office, and I've had friendly dealings with them in the past (getting my bill set up on auto bank pay and righting leaning power poles) so I'm cautiously optimistic I can get them to have a look, or at least help me track down a decent electrician.

[sometimewoodworker]

28 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I'm out in the countryside, just a small PEA office, and I've had friendly dealings with them in the past (getting my bill set up on auto bank pay and righting leaning power poles) so I'm cautiously optimistic I can get them to have a look, or at least help me track down a decent electrician.

Getting even a friendly PEA office to do work can be a challenge. However if you go in asking for help to find an electrician for you to pay you may well find that they have an employee who can do an out of hours job.

[Chazar]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

Do you have any test gear? Multimeter? Even a neon-screwdriver?

 

You can easily verify that this is the issue, if it is then call PEA and tell them that you have a problem.

 

In reality, it may be easier to get your local man to swap the wires at the meter ????

 

 

You maybe shouldnt but Ive gone out to the meter and swapped  the cables (tails) before  now for some decent 16mm  copper, they don,t seem to be concerned with the lead  seal being broken at all even though I kind of re  attached it afterwards.

[Chazar]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

Like many Thai institutions your local PEA may not get off their fat backsides without some form of evidence that there's an issue.

Set  your hair  on fire and walk into their  office  claiming there's a  problem!!! That'll  do it????

[Gecko123]

On 6/3/2019 at 6:48 AM, Crossy said:

 

Like many Thai institutions your local PEA may not get off their fat backsides without some form of evidence that there's an issue.

 

A photo of a neon glowing happily on the neutral ought to get them moving rather faster than a farang with a "perceived problem" (your power is on, what more could you want?).

 

Hi Crossy:

Just wanted to give you an update. Yesterday I went to the PEA office but it was closed for the Queen's birthday. This morning, I went back, and things went really smoothly. The crew came out to the house this afternoon and I believe they fixed the problem by switching the wires around at the meter. I couldn't tell exactly what they did at the control panel in the house, but one of the technicians had a voltage meter and he told me that a voltage problem that he had detected in the control panel had gone away.

 

Even though the head guy initially told he didn't think it had anything to do with the meter, the advice I got from you and others really sped up the time it took for them to diagnose the problem. After briefly checking the control panel box, they went out to the meter and quickly discovered that's where the problem was.

 

It also really helped me with the presentation of the problem to PEA, as I had taken pictures of the meter, control panel box and the light fixtures, as well as a copy of your post diagnosing the possible problem. Your post also enabled me to tie the commencement of the electrical problem to around the same time the new meter was installed, which probably helped in getting them to come out to the house pretty much immediately. They also didn't charge me any money for the service call.

 

So I just wanted to thank you again for your help.

 

Cheers. 

[Crossy]

Sounds like a result!

 

[bankruatsteve]

Don't know why this came to mind.  Whatever....

 

Those neon screwdrivers.  Do they detect current versus voltage?  If so, it would also light up on neutral if there's a load, wouldn't it?

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Do they detect current versus voltage?

 

Voltage only, they will start glowing (dimly) at about 70V above ground.

 

If it lights on neutral or ground you have a big problem.