Us May List Thailand As A Top Ip Pirate

[george]

US may list Thailand as a top IP pirate

BANGKOK: -- The United States is poised to place Thailand on its special watch list next month, as industry pressure groups claim the country is one of the the most rampant pirates of intellectual property.

Puangrat Assawapisit, Director-General of the Intellectual Property Department, revealed that five private-sector groups including music and movie, clothes, pharmaceuticals, cable television and books, out of 13 groups in the US complained that Thailand failed to ease problems on continuing intellectual property piracy in various forms.

Worse still, rather than limiting, or containing existing piracy, the groups concluded that the practice appeared to be growing worse in Thailand, and is becoming rampant.

There is a mounting concern Thailand might be put on a US special watch list instead of the watch list which it is placed at present, Mrs. Puangrat said, adding that the department would coordinate with agencies concerned this month to accelerate explaining to the US that Thailand had not been indifferent in coping with intellectual property piracy.

"At present, many groups of Thai producers are worried that the US will place Thailand in its special watch list instead of a watch list for its failure to address the intellectual property piracy.

"Should Thailand be really placed on the US special watch list, the generalised system of preferences the US just renewed for Thailand may be revised," she said.

"Now, no one can tell that whether the US will put Thailand on its special watch list. But if Thailand is really placed on the list, many Thai export products shipped to the US will be hard hit."

Earlier this year, Mrs. Puangrat said, the department had submitted a written clarification contesting what American authorities call Thailand's failure to cope efficiently with intellectual property piracy to the US Embassy in Bangkok.

It had also accelerated sending all relevant information to clarify doubts to the US government since it believed the prevention and suppression of intellectual property piracy in various forms, particularly copied tapes and compact discs, had been done quite efficiently in the past five or six years, she said.

--TNA 2007-03-17

[andy1308]

I think part of the problem, certainly as far as pirated computer software is concerned, is the relative high price of licensed versions when compared to other parts of the world. The cost for a licensed version of Windows XP, for example. is the same in Thailand as the UK, yet here that cost relates to a substantial proportion of the average monthly wage. That same proportion in the UK can pay the mortgage on a house.

I'm told that the Japanese creators of the Dragonball brand realised and understood this problem a few years ago. They brought the prices for their licensed items into line with local costs and the problems of pirated merchandise have almost disappeared.

I am certainly not defending or justifying IP theft, merely giving some reasons why it happens.

[dominique355]

This is no surprise, especially after the Government ventured (again) into pharmaceutical product piracy by declaring the cost of heart medicine as a national emergency and lifted patent protection of the product. Of course, the Government claimed it has the right to do so under TRIPS and Paris Convention, but these International Conventions clearly stipulate that there must be a national emergency, which is certainly not the case here.

I would suggest the Government orders the generals with a heart condition to start some physical exercise rather than stealing the Intellectual Property of others.

In general, the notions of Intellectual Property and of Industrial Property Rights are poorly developed in Thailand, even among the educated class. In this field Thailand is clearly a developing country.

Combine that with a corruption problem and what do you get? You get on the Watch-List of the USA.

[h90]

This is no surprise, especially after the Government ventured (again) into pharmaceutical product piracy by declaring the cost of heart medicine as a national emergency and lifted patent protection of the product. Of course, the Government claimed it has the right to do so under TRIPS and Paris Convention, but these International Conventions clearly stipulate that there must be a national emergency, which is certainly not the case here.

I would suggest the Government orders the generals with a heart condition to start some physical exercise rather than stealing the Intellectual Property of others.

In general, the notions of Intellectual Property and of Industrial Property Rights are poorly developed in Thailand, even among the educated class. In this field Thailand is clearly a developing country.

Combine that with a corruption problem and what do you get? You get on the Watch-List of the USA.

I would suggest they follow that stupid copyright laws and solve the problem with putting all the dead bodies of people who died because some companies want 5000 % profit in front of your house.

Or next time you need any tablets they just plus 10.000 percent import tax, why? Just because they can do it and it is perfectly OK with the law.

Never saw a cynic post like yours....

Definitly people are dieing because people like you can't get enough profit.

[cdnvic]

I'm sure that when the Chinese pirates hear of this smear on their reputation they'll redouble their efforts and be back on top in no time.

[quiksilva]

I think part of the problem, certainly as far as pirated computer software is concerned, is the relative high price of licensed versions when compared to other parts of the world.

Actually look at the price of PC games. On average genuine Thai versions of the latest and greatest games here sell for 600-700 Baht. Compare that with the 3000-4000 Baht in the UK.

Yet, there are still plenty of pirated PC games on the local market, so pricing on its own whilst it no doubt helps, is not the entire solution.

[dominique355]

This is no surprise, especially after the Government ventured (again) into pharmaceutical product piracy by declaring the cost of heart medicine as a national emergency and lifted patent protection of the product. Of course, the Government claimed it has the right to do so under TRIPS and Paris Convention, but these International Conventions clearly stipulate that there must be a national emergency, which is certainly not the case here.

I would suggest the Government orders the generals with a heart condition to start some physical exercise rather than stealing the Intellectual Property of others.

In general, the notions of Intellectual Property and of Industrial Property Rights are poorly developed in Thailand, even among the educated class. In this field Thailand is clearly a developing country.

Combine that with a corruption problem and what do you get? You get on the Watch-List of the USA.

I would suggest they follow that stupid copyright laws and solve the problem with putting all the dead bodies of people who died because some companies want 5000 % profit in front of your house.

Or next time you need any tablets they just plus 10.000 percent import tax, why? Just because they can do it and it is perfectly OK with the law.

Never saw a cynic post like yours....

Definitly people are dieing because people like you can't get enough profit.

Cynical? I suggest you think long term, that is beyond the tip of your nose.

May I sugest reading the following article about the cost:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/14...on_30026809.php

1. Import Tax is not done by the owners of the IP rights, but by the Government.

2. If IP owners cannot make profits, how will they finance research? Do you have any idea what it takes and what it costs today to develop new new drug until it reaches the pharmacy? Billions! (And that's billions of US $)

3. There is not one singe country in this world, which has a state owned pharmaceutical industry with any kind of research, except research on how to infringe on patent rights.

4. Computer Software: If Microsoft XP is too expensive for you, I suggest another operation syste: LINUX. It's free, so no need to spend THB 5000 for genuine XP.

5. If Microsoft Office is too expensive for you, I suggest "Open Office". It's free ... shall I continue?

6. On the long run, we all will loose when IP rights will no longer be respected.

And a final personal note: I am not making any profit from any pharmaceutical company or any other owners of IP rights.

[dominique355]

Maybe this link does not work. Here is a better link:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/14...on_30026809.php

Sorry

[h90]

This is no surprise, especially after the Government ventured (again) into pharmaceutical product piracy by declaring the cost of heart medicine as a national emergency and lifted patent protection of the product. Of course, the Government claimed it has the right to do so under TRIPS and Paris Convention, but these International Conventions clearly stipulate that there must be a national emergency, which is certainly not the case here.

I would suggest the Government orders the generals with a heart condition to start some physical exercise rather than stealing the Intellectual Property of others.

In general, the notions of Intellectual Property and of Industrial Property Rights are poorly developed in Thailand, even among the educated class. In this field Thailand is clearly a developing country.

Combine that with a corruption problem and what do you get? You get on the Watch-List of the USA.

I would suggest they follow that stupid copyright laws and solve the problem with putting all the dead bodies of people who died because some companies want 5000 % profit in front of your house.

Or next time you need any tablets they just plus 10.000 percent import tax, why? Just because they can do it and it is perfectly OK with the law.

Never saw a cynic post like yours....

Definitly people are dieing because people like you can't get enough profit.

Cynical? I suggest you think long term, that is beyond the tip of your nose.

May I sugest reading the following article about the cost:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/14...on_30026809.php

1. Import Tax is not done by the owners of the IP rights, but by the Government.

that makes what difference?

2. If IP owners cannot make profits, how will they finance research? Do you have any idea what it takes and what it costs today to develop new new drug until it reaches the pharmacy? Billions! (And that's billions of US $)

So they are at the moment near bankrupt and the Presidents only earn 20.000 Baht per month? Fact is that they are so rich that they don't know what to do with the money and also fact is that there were several talks to offer cheaper tablets (with just a few hundred instead of thousands percent profit) for developing countries and that was rejected. As well USA is always showing their muscles but allow copyright issues in their own country (a few trademarks owned by cuba for example). So they choose: let people die instead of getting a few percent less profit

3. There is not one singe country in this world, which has a state owned pharmaceutical industry with any kind of research, except research on how to infringe on patent rights.

plenty of countries produce AIDS drugs themself. India and Indonesia to name 2. The indian claim that their AIDS drugs are better than the original ones as they can combine everything freely without limitations due to patents.

4. Computer Software: If Microsoft XP is too expensive for you, I suggest another operation syste: LINUX. It's free, so no need to spend THB 5000 for genuine XP.

5. If Microsoft Office is too expensive for you, I suggest "Open Office". It's free ... shall I continue?

you mix computer software with AIDS drugs. OK they shall use Linux. And the people having AIDS should use what in your opinion?????

6. On the long run, we all will loose when IP rights will no longer be respected.

And we'll loose all if we kill people for some IP rights, also if we give IP rights for some things which already exist in nature

And a final personal note: I am not making any profit from any pharmaceutical company or any other owners of IP rights.

[Plus]

2. If IP owners cannot make profits, how will they finance research? Do you have any idea what it takes and what it costs today to develop new new drug until it reaches the pharmacy? Billions! (And that's billions of US $)

How much exactly? I read that the largest portion of research money is spent on skin lotions and slimming pills. I think it's from Stieglitz' recent article.

3. There is not one singe country in this world, which has a state owned pharmaceutical industry with any kind of research, except research on how to infringe on patent rights.

But the governments invest heavily in reasearch for life saving drugs, at least for those relevant to their own coutnries.

4. Computer Software: If Microsoft XP is too expensive for you, I suggest another operation syste: LINUX. It's free, so no need to spend THB 5000 for genuine XP.

But Microsoft wouldn't want that, would it? I don't think MS concerns are as genuine as their XP. They prefer people hooked up on windows no matter what, they still can make plenty on OEM versions.

5. If Microsoft Office is too expensive for you, I suggest "Open Office". It's free ... shall I continue?

It would be nice if pirates sold Open Office CDs alongside with pirated versions of MS, downloading it on your own is not a solution for the average consumer. Once installed it beats the crap out of the genuine MS office. Again, I believe MS would rather keep people hooked up on illegal office than learn about alternatives.

6. On the long run, we all will loose when IP rights will no longer be respected.

There MUST be a better solution. The way their are managed now, IP rights bring up more problems than they solve. What do you think you'll see ten years down the road? Only a handful of western countries with about a third of the world market and shrinking will respect IP rights and be forced to pay for EVERYTHING.

[dominique355]

H90:

1. Import Tax is not done by the owners of the IP rights, but by the Government.

that makes what difference?

The reason why the Thai government decided to suspend patent protection what that the cost of the drug was too high. Now, what kind of an argument is this, if the same government is first imposing a high import tax only to after claim the prize is too high?

3. There is not one singe country in this world, which has a state owned pharmaceutical industry with any kind of research, except research on how to infringe on patent rights.

plenty of countries produce AIDS drugs themself. India and Indonesia to name 2. The indian claim that their AIDS drugs are better than the original ones as they can combine everything freely without limitations due to patents.

Mind you, what the Thai government is doing now is not the first time it suspends patent rights. It did so in the past for AIDS/HIV drugs and it dos it again now, because the first program miserably failed.

What a government "claims" and what really happens are often two different things. Fact is that the sub-standard quality of the drugs made by the Thai government has unfortunately increased the AIDS/HIV patient's drug resistance.

The effect of using substandard drugs was to force patients onto "second-line" therapies - increasing the drug price from $24 per person per month to $239, according to MSF's figures. (MSF = Medecins sans frontieres)

Now the Thai government does it again with "Kaletra" (and the heart disease drug "Plavix") and again they won't be able to manufacture the drug according to international standards. To import them from India is not an option, because of the heavy import tax Thailand puts on them. (now that is cynical in my view)

ARV resistance develops even under the best medical care but substandard drugs accelerate resistance as well as mutations of the HIV/Aids virus. The risk is that more compulsory licences could accelerate this resistance.

The whole things looks to me like the recent games the Ministry of Finance did with the Thai Bath. They seem to have no clue what they are doing, but convinced to do it. Goethe called them the "apprentice sorcerer".

[lost_in_space]

It's too bad we didn't have IP rights around when Shakespeare was alive. he stole more than a few of his plots/characters. We know how much worse off the world is for his work.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I went to buy a copy of Fifa 2007 a couple of weeks ago, I couldn't get an edition in English - only in Thai - the only way to get a copy I could use was to buy the pirated copy - which I don't want to do because they never work right!

[jbowman1993]

Dominique's got his panties in a knot over this issue. Not sure why, unless he personally is losing money to the pirates.

I buy pirate dvd's and software at Phantip all the time. If they stop selling them, I'll stop buying them, and buy the real thing, but I won't buy as many, because the price will be higher and I can't afford too. Personally, I'd rather give my money to Somchai the dvd guy than to Michael Eisner and the Disney Corp, because I know Somchai can use the money, and my 500 baht isn't going to make a bit of difference to disney's bottom line.

I sleep just fine at night, Dom, as I am sure you are going to ask...lol

[solo siam]

Its not like Microsoft or any of the big music or movie studios are losing money, Someone who uses pirate software is NOT always money lost, if they couldn't use the stolen software they probably wouldn't have a computer at all. You can buy a fully functional computer for less than 10,000 baht, why should an O/S and Word processing software cost more than that?

The computer games industry has it right here, they price their games at 1/4 the price they are in the West - to stop people taking advantage of this and shipping these games back West, they are often in Thai. Why not offer a full Thai version of Windows for 2,000 baht or so, its still a week or two's wages to most Thais, and at least its some income its not like Xp is costing them money any more.

Some movie companies are trying a new model in China, whereby they are competing against the pirates on price, OK so the original may cost $3 whilst the pirate version is $1.50, but its still extra money in their pocket and lots are willing to buy the original even at twice the price.

Lets face it, if pirates can make money selling WindowsXp at 100 baht a copy, I'm sure Microsoft could make some at 2k baht.

[cdnvic]

It's not all going into Bill Gates & Disney's pockets. Thousands of pension funds are awash in stock from MS, Adobe, Oracle, and Disney. Tens of thousands of regular people are employed by them.

I won't get into the overpricing much because I agree that the legit stuff is overpriced worldwide, but if you had a legit copy of Photoshop available in Panthip for 300baht, and a pirate copy for 100baht, what do you think the top seller would be?

Edited March 12, 2007 by cdnvic

[andy1308]

It's often said that companies loose millions as a result of software piracy, but the fact is that if all pirated software disappeared overnight it wouldn't mean those users would rush out and buy the licensed version.

[sfokevin]

Too bad western technology does not receive the same protection as local products...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/13...al_30029159.php

[wintermute]

Too bad western technology does not receive the same protection as local products...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/13...al_30029159.php

That selective double standard policy of IP enforcement is coming back now to bite Thailand in the ass. They depend heavily on the U.S. for exporting their cheaply made crap so once the money tap is turned down they will lose millions of baht overnnight. Flat out lying to the U.S. government about the IP issue is a non factor. If the U.S. is saying they are debating putting Thailand on the list then it's most likely already in the works. I'm guessing the straw that broke the camel's back were the pharmaceutical lobbies who are far more powerful than the RIAA/MPAA. They have senators who own sizeable stake in their companies and they don't like small countries meddling in their profits.

[andy1308]

It's not all going into Bill Gates & Disney's pockets. Thousands of pension funds are awash in stock from MS, Adobe, Oracle, and Disney. Tens of thousands of regular people are employed by them.

I won't get into the overpricing much because I agree that the legit stuff is overpriced worldwide, but if you had a legit copy of Photoshop available in Panthip for 300baht, and a pirate copy for 100baht, what do you think the top seller would be?

If the difference between prices was that small then personally I would opt for the licensed version, with its full support and updates. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that. But in reality the difference is 100 baht at Pantip and around US$550-600 for the full, licensed edition.

I do agree it's overpriced worldwide, and it will be interesting to see what ramification, if any, happen as a result of Thailand being placed on the 'list'.

[andook]

Its all about politics and leverage in trade dealing. The US knows all about Thailand's piracy and double standards and uses it just to twist its arm during any current negotiations.

The piracy here is rampant, but not as much as in other poor countries. E. European piracy is amazing.

[Scott]

I have no great moral position on this issue. I usually don't buy fakes because they don't work well and I end up constantly having to have my computer repaired etc. With DVD's etc. I would rather buy the real one. At the end of the day, there really aren't that many DVD's that I really want to own, so I can afford it. I have a collection of fakes, most of which have problems throughout them.

When it comes to pharmacuticals people need to remember that there is a lot of money that goes into Research and Development. Money that they won't spend if they aren't going to recoup their investment.

I have only one problem here with all of this and that is that in this country, billions upon billions of dollars go into the pockets of rich people in the form of corruption. How much of the corruption money would it take to pay for the AIDS drugs and heart medicine (for the very ageing, and I believe, wealthy appointed gov't officials)?

[dominique355]

If the difference between prices was that small then personally I would opt for the licensed version, with its full support and updates. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that. But in reality the difference is 100 baht at Pantip and around US$550-600 for the full, licensed edition.

I do agree it's overpriced worldwide, and it will be interesting to see what ramification, if any, happen as a result of Thailand being placed on the 'list'.

I just recently bought a new Computer (Acer) in Panthip and was given the choice of a copy XP or buy a genuine one. I choose the genuine one and had to buy it at a different store in Panthip. It cost THB 5000 or roughly US$ 135. Still a rather high price, but I preferred the peace of mind and the updates.

For the rest, I prefer a Microsoft free environment, there is plenty of good software NOT from Microsoft.

[quiksilva]

It's not all going into Bill Gates & Disney's pockets. Thousands of pension funds are awash in stock from MS, Adobe, Oracle, and Disney. Tens of thousands of regular people are employed by them.

I won't get into the overpricing much because I agree that the legit stuff is overpriced worldwide, but if you had a legit copy of Photoshop available in Panthip for 300baht, and a pirate copy for 100baht, what do you think the top seller would be?

If the difference between prices was that small then personally I would opt for the licensed version, with its full support and updates. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that. But in reality the difference is 100 baht at Pantip and around US$550-600 for the full, licensed edition.

I do agree it's overpriced worldwide, and it will be interesting to see what ramification, if any, happen as a result of Thailand being placed on the 'list'.

Well I dont think there will be all that much ramifications they'll hold another DVD bonfire on Sathorn and and everything will be A-Ok

For the record I also shell out the extra on genuine software for the support, updates and a whole lot less hassle.

[h90]

H90:

3. There is not one singe country in this world, which has a state owned pharmaceutical industry with any kind of research, except research on how to infringe on patent rights.

plenty of countries produce AIDS drugs themself. India and Indonesia to name 2. The indian claim that their AIDS drugs are better than the original ones as they can combine everything freely without limitations due to patents.

Mind you, what the Thai government is doing now is not the first time it suspends patent rights. It did so in the past for AIDS/HIV drugs and it dos it again now, because the first program miserably failed.

What a government "claims" and what really happens are often two different things. Fact is that the sub-standard quality of the drugs made by the Thai government has unfortunately increased the AIDS/HIV patient's drug resistance.

The effect of using substandard drugs was to force patients onto "second-line" therapies - increasing the drug price from $24 per person per month to $239, according to MSF's figures. (MSF = Medecins sans frontieres)

I don't know about the former productions in Thailand. I know that the Indian products were good and the worst you can do is putting an AIDS patient on tablets than stop (because no money), start again, stop again.....Thats the way you make resistance. But it shouldn't be that difficult to copy that drugs

Now the Thai government does it again with "Kaletra" (and the heart disease drug "Plavix") and again they won't be able to manufacture the drug according to international standards. To import them from India is not an option, because of the heavy import tax Thailand puts on them. (now that is cynical in my view)

I don't know about that! Is it a fact? If Thailand is putting high import tax on the cheap indian version, than it would be a shame, or more it is killing people for greed....

ARV resistance develops even under the best medical care but substandard drugs accelerate resistance as well as mutations of the HIV/Aids virus. The risk is that more compulsory licences could accelerate this resistance.

The whole things looks to me like the recent games the Ministry of Finance did with the Thai Bath. They seem to have no clue what they are doing, but convinced to do it. Goethe called them the "apprentice sorcerer".

That the whole gouverment (and as well the former gouverment) really have no clue what they are doing in all topics I know a bit about, is another point, but maybe the could produce some copyrighted alzheimer tablets for the gouverment