Sizzler, when people use words such as "tiny" in reference to describe Israel and its occupied territories, they do this to claim victim status as in "poor little me". You are forgetting the size of the Israeli military. 

What are you using to measure "territorial expansion going on its moving at the slowest pace in human history."??

Lastly, you are missing the word "back" as in they completely gave back Gaza to........

May also be of use for a country to define its own borders.

13 hours ago, Trouble said:

The difference is that Israel claims not to be in a class with Russia, Iran, China, etc. but is part of the "civilized world" relying on the various conventions mentioned in the post to which you responded.  In effect it is the same as far a taking over territory, annexing, and building on it. Downright territorial expansion. Israel has not kept the lands it conquered as a safe zone but used it to build settlements and expand it's control. There's a difference between security and expansion.

 

I don't think Israel's democracy is anywhere on par with most of "the West". And I think slogans such as "the only democracy in the Middle East" etc. are exaggerations. Better than most neighbors, yes. As good as the West, no.

 

The problem lies, as said, with the reference point used - realistically, expecting Israel to fully conform to the ideal of Western "civilized world" is a non-starter. Different realities, different circumstances.

 

Most of them Western countries making up the "civilized worlds" had centuries of wars to sort things out between themselves. Nowadays, most of their disagreements and conflict are worked out diplomatically. I don't think that even if Israel was somehow transformed into a model "civilized country" (whatever comes under the label), it would necessarily make a huge difference with regard to the neighborhood it is in.

 

 

13 hours ago, Sizzler55 said:

Israel is barely the size of LA county bro. If there's this big nefarious "territorial expansion" going on its moving at the slowest pace in human history. Even more bizarre considering the fact they completely gave Gaza over to the virulent scum of Hamas. Russia annexed a giant chunk of Ukraine and the entire region of Crimea. If you think this is anything even remotely the same as the tiny region of the Golan Heights you are mentally ill. 

 

The size of the real estate cuts both ways. If you look at it percentage-wise relative to "original" size, quite impressive.

35 minutes ago, Sujo said:

May also be of use for a country to define its own borders.

 

Maybe give this one a rest? Israel got agreed upon borders with the two neighbors who signed peace agreements with it. The three others aren't currently in a condition to sign or commit to anything, and it's been this way for quite some time now.

The truth about this phony "trump" town. 

 

Quote

 

Israel builds Trump a Potemkin village

 

Finally, the long-anticipated Trump Middle East Peace Plan is taking shape.

Under terms of the proposal, President Trump agrees that Israel gets whatever it wants: all of Jerusalem, all of the Golan Heights, the West Bank, Gaza — you name it. In exchange, Israel agrees to name a village after Trump.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/israel-builds-trump-a-potemkin-village/2019/06/19/f3426a84-92c1-11e9-aadb-74e6b2b46f6a_story.html

Edited June 20, 20197 yr by Jingthing

20 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Maybe give this one a rest? Israel got agreed upon borders with the two neighbors who signed peace agreements with it. The three others aren't currently in a condition to sign or commit to anything, and it's been this way for quite some time now.

Maybe you dont get to dictate what people can post.

 

Wonder how the border the Israelis agreed to are going. Contracting or expanding? 

 

What countries have no defined border. Hmmm

3 hours ago, Sujo said:

Maybe you dont get to dictate what people can post.

 

Wonder how the border the Israelis agreed to are going. Contracting or expanding? 

 

What countries have no defined border. Hmmm

 

Dictate how? Making a suggestion.

You can "wonder" all you like and insinuate whatever. Borders with Egypt and Jordan are set and agreed upon. Not much by way of contraction or expansion.

Somehow you seem to feel that it's a one-sided issue, but borders rarely are.