Kidney Stone

[mogoso]

A few weeks ago I had the most incredible pain. From the time the pain started and I decided to seek emergency treatment was a couple of hours. When I reached the emergency room I started to fill out a form, the nurse saw I wasn't well and sat me down to take my vitals immeadiately. She couldn't believe the thermometer the first time she took it and retook it 95 degrees F. She went to get me a wheel chair, but I laid on the floor until she returned. She made me sit in the chair while she went to get a gurney. But I couldn't sit in the chair and went back to the floor hurting from scrotem to kidney on my left side. My body felt like a numbing electrical current was passing through it.

Returning with gurney her and my wife put me on it and away I went. After a while a shot of morphine was administered, but it didn't touch the pain. Wheeled down to have a CT scan and then back to emergency I awaited the results. My wife and her Vietnese friend began massaging me on the affected side for a half and hour and all of a sudden the majority of pain just went away.

Doctor came in and said kidney stone, said the radiology doc results were a medium sized stone and it'll pass in a few days, just drink lots of water and take these hydrocodone pills till that occurs. I'm pretty relieved and go home.

Two days later the emergency doc calls me and asks me to come in and retake the CT as the oringinal dianosis wasn't correct as to size.

Returning to hospital I have another CT scan results are a 6x11 stone.

Heres where I get a bit fuzzy on what they're going to do. First instead of using ultrasound to break it up, they're going to insert a stendt from kidney to bladder for 6 weeks then use ultrasound to break it up, then remove the stendt. I was told puffiness around kidney and where the stone is lodged is the reason I'm given. But why not ultrasound and be done with it? They don't wanna use laser where its located either. So am I being given the right treatment? This is at a VA hospital where they've all sorts of equipment and the doctors are from Emory so I guess they know whats up, just seems a bit backward.

[kratindaeng]

the left or the right procedure?

[Maestro]

The stent – some urologists call it “pigtail” because of its shape – serves to hold the stone in place. You only get colics – the type of excruciating pain you experienced – when the stone moves.

The delay in using the ultrasound procedure – ESWL (extracorporeal sound wave lithotrophy) – serves to give the inflammation time to subside. If the procedure were done immediately, it would be more painful and probably also less effective. I know, I had it done two months ago.

ESWL is more effective than laser, and for a stone of your size laser would not be indicated.

There was a recent thread on kidney stone – included also gall stone – here.

Incidentally, its only the first time you get kidney colics that you feel like you will die. Once you know what it is it is less scary.

--

Maestro

[mogoso]

The stent – some urologists call it “pigtail” because of its shape – serves to hold the stone in place. You only get colics – the type of excruciating pain you experienced – when the stone moves.

The delay in using the ultrasound procedure – ESWL (extracorporeal sound wave lithotrophy) – serves to give the inflammation time to subside. If the procedure were done immediately, it would be more painful and probably also less effective. I know, I had it done two months ago.

ESWL is more effective than laser, and for a stone of your size laser would not be indicated.

There was a recent thread on kidney stone – included also gall stone – here.

Incidentally, its only the first time you get kidney colics that you feel like you will die. Once you know what it is it is less scary.

--

Maestro

Thank you maestro, I read the aforementioned forum and feel that what they said (VA doctors) matches your desciption. The pain didn't scare me, I was concerned, it just hurt My wife was really beside herself, she still hasn't recovered totally, and takes even better care of me. Life is good

[Jamie]

Actually my sister has had this procedure done. More than once. The ureteric stent is put in place to keep the ureter from swelling shut do to inflamation, or to relieve an obstruction. It is perforated to allow the drainage from the kidney to the bladder.

[Sheryl]

Yes, it is as Maestro explained. Your docs are giving the correct treatment. Relax and follow their instructions. And do drink plenty of fluids.

You should inquire about the mineral composition of the stone and any dietary changes which might reduce the chances of recurrence.

[Ijustwannateach]

6x11 mm, cm, or in???? Good lord, a big stone no matter which units you use.

I had a stone once and I thought I would die.... the only time I've ever thrown up simply from nausea resulting from pain. I've heard that women who have had babies and also had kidneystones say that the kidneystones are the only comparable pain to labour. Threw up once in the bathroom; thought it was a stomach issue- misinterpreted the pain as a stomach ache. Went to the doc's office; told them I was in incredible pain and needed to see the doc as soon as possible. He made me wait 10 minutes or more, and so I threw up again in his waiting room- it expedited the visit. Turns out that the stone was too small to break up; it was just allowed eventually to pass (drink LOOOOOTS of water!)- pissed through a tea-strainer for a month.

"S"

[mogoso]

6x11 mm, cm, or in???? Good lord, a big stone no matter which units you use.

I had a stone once and I thought I would die.... the only time I've ever thrown up simply from nausea resulting from pain. I've heard that women who have had babies and also had kidneystones say that the kidneystones are the only comparable pain to labour. Threw up once in the bathroom; thought it was a stomach issue- misinterpreted the pain as a stomach ache. Went to the doc's office; told them I was in incredible pain and needed to see the doc as soon as possible. He made me wait 10 minutes or more, and so I threw up again in his waiting room- it expedited the visit. Turns out that the stone was too small to break up; it was just allowed eventually to pass (drink LOOOOOTS of water!)- pissed through a tea-strainer for a month.

"S"

In mm, although it felt like meters Doc told me to drink some gatorade also to replace electrolytes. Although I'm not to drink excessly as I'm not trying to pass an impassable object

[autonomous_unit]

I had one that was let to pass naturally when I was in the US... and they just gave me acetaminophen and ibuprofen to take in alternating doses.

The pain was bad, but that and pissing blood was what made it scary at first! Luckily, I self-diagnosed correctly and that reduced the worries until I got to an emergency room for an X-ray or three. My dad had told me about his experience having kidney stones long ago, and one bit of the story stuck in my mind and described exactly how I felt: the pain triggered some primitive urge to lay down on the bed, and then the floor, as if somehow if I could just get lower it would not hurt as much...

Along with asking about the minerals for changing diet, I'd also suggest you pay more attention to the color and opacity of your urine in the future... I learned that I sometimes would let myself get dehydrated and my urine would get more yellow and cloudy. It is useful feedback to make yourself drink more water.

Alas, my own experience is that a migraine headache can hurt more than passing a kidney stone. But it is certainly qualitatively different to have the pain in your head than feeling like a knife is going through your back...

[prakhonchai nick]

I had a stone 2 years ago. Was taken to a private hospital in Buriram. where a correct diagnosis was made, and I was kept in for several days, before they decided I needed to see a urologist (a kidney stone expert).

After a days delay they told me the Urologist who worked occasionally at the government hospital would not visit me so I was discharged and told to visit him. The reason given was that their hospital did not have the equipment to operate on me (no suggestion of ultrasound or laser)

I duly visited the government hospital only to find 50 people (yes 50) waiting to see him in the hour that he was there.

Decided I would not entrust my health to a Doctor who could give me only a minute of his time

Took myself off to Bangkok Pattaya Hospital, was seen immediately, and one look at the x rays I had taken with me confirmed it was only a small stone that would pass on its own. Doctors fee with some medicine only 500bt.

[Cuban]

Although I'm not to drink excessive as I'm not trying to pass an impassable object

You have my sympathies, I likened the pain to being hit across the back with a baseball bat, a doctor told me it was one of the most painful things a guy will normally experience on par with labour pains and a simple stomach gunshot wound, nice thought.

You will want to be drinking more water (low dissolved solids) than you have in the past, to maintain the flushing effect of your kidneys. I have started adding a few drops of lemon or lime, after going through normal stomach acids a doubt a few drops of citric acid will have any effect but, it tastes fine.

As you may have found out the pain is so intense you will be sick with little notice, on one occasion I had what could only be compared to a Mr Creosote experience with all that water I was drinking.

Pain relief; apart from the normal pain killers you will benefit from getting whatever works for you, even in Thailand, strength wise, you will be looking to get semi restricted OTC pain killers, a letter from your doctor may help. Also despite doctors warning about not holding onto medication after the event, I keep and travel with a selection of pain killers and anti bios for situations just like this. I found sitting in a bath of quite hot water for hours on end great relief, this was the only way I could get any sleep for a few days.

Generally once you have had a kidney stone you will have them again, like another post above you very quickly recognize the pain/symptoms. I know from pissing out some blood I have two hours before the real pain hits. You don't mention reading up on other web sites, I recommend you do, as you have passed blood the stone has moved, there is some risk of secondary infection from the internal wound. Having antibiotics to hand will help.

Kidney stones are not a modern illness, huge stones have been found throughout history even in Egyptian mummies. Some people (families) have just get them, diet will affect this - I have started avoiding uncooked dark green leave salads, spinach being a typical source. (( Although cause of stones varies. ))

You don't mention sleeping around, and sorry to presume to mention this, however it might help someone else, after a stone has passed for a while you are at slightly higher risk from transmissible infections, as the stone bounces along the exit tube small cuts offer a path into the body for nasty things, <rude word> hurts too.

I understand that most reported back pain is in fact kidney related, a very scary thought, many people simply pass the fine grains without feeling the passage. My personal worst was a thin half grain of rice and a few bits, if you sieve the bits you can get them tested to see the composition, most are oxalate, this might help you identify what is the cause for you.

You have concerns about your treatment and don't mention any other tests. You NEED to make sure your blood pressure is "normal", there are other threads on this subject. Kidney problems can cause blood pressure problems that in turn cause more kidney problems, not called the silent killer without just cause.

Silent Killer - (high) Blood Pressure

Kidney Stones

[mogoso]

I am drinking fluids at above recommended minimums of 1.5 liters per day. I drink that in water alone but intrasperse it with gatorade (to replace the electrolytes) and orange, carrot and cranberry juices (also my cups of tea)

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Pain relief; apart from the normal pain killers you will benefit from getting whatever works for you, even in Thailand, strength wise, you will be looking to get semi restricted OTC pain killers, a letter from your doctor may help. Also despite doctors warning about not holding onto medication after the event, I keep and travel with a selection of pain killers and anti bios for situations just like this. I found sitting in a bath of quite hot water for hours on end great relief, this was the only way I could get any sleep for a few days.

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I've lortabs and hydrocodone ( samething I think but different doctors prescribed) for pain, but don't really like taking them except when necessary.

I return in 10 days to hospital to replace the stent and maybe ultrasound the stone at that time, but will know more in 3 days when I go to my preop appointment.

I took a antibioctic called nitroflur----- for severals days after stent was put in and of course recieved liquid cipro during stent insertion

======================================================-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generally once you have had a kidney stone you will have them again, like another post above you very quickly recognize the pain/symptoms. I know from pissing out some blood I have two hours before the real pain hits. You don't mention reading up on other web sites, I recommend you do, as you have passed blood the stone has moved, there is some risk of secondary infection from the internal wound. Having antibiotics to hand will help.

=====================================================-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've read several sites John Hopkins, Mayo Clinic Kidneystone.org, wikipedia and others.

I've change my diet no spinach, sweet potatoes, sesame candy and bagels, I can't get my wife to stop serving me chinese brocolli, she likes it and thinks its good for kidneys. I do drink alot more bitter melon tea, but most of the things bad for you I'll miss eating on a regular basis particularily raw almonds. But I will not give up my chocolates or cocoa, theres gotta be a line drawn somewhere.

=====================================================-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kidney stones are not a modern illness, huge stones have been found throughout history even in Egyptian mummies. Some people (families) have just get them, diet will affect this - I have started avoiding uncooked dark green leave salads, spinach being a typical source. (( Although cause of stones varies. ))

You don't mention sleeping around, and sorry to presume to mention this, however it might help someone else, after a stone has passed for a while you are at slightly higher risk from transmissible infections, as the stone bounces along the exit tube small cuts offer a path into the body for nasty things, <rude word> hurts too.

=====================================================-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No I don't sleep around, I've a very strong adversion to feeding the ducks (gulp)

=====================================================-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand that most reported back pain is in fact kidney related, a very scary thought, many people simply pass the fine grains without feeling the passage. My personal worst was a thin half grain of rice and a few bits, if you sieve the bits you can get them tested to see the composition, most are oxalate, this might help you identify what is the cause for you.

=====================================================------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As the stone is 6mmx11mm, even after ultrasound it'll be a rough time for a few days. I've already been given pee screens to catch the bits

=====================================================-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have concerns about your treatment and don't mention any other tests. You NEED to make sure your blood pressure is "normal", there are other threads on this subject. Kidney problems can cause blood pressure problems that in turn cause more kidney problems, not called the silent killer without just cause.

=====================================================-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do recieve adequate medical attention, seeing my primary physician twice yearly, the same for my rheumatology clinic. I've an elevated psa for many years, that has some concern but all biopsies have been negative so far, but during preop exam a lump was felt and they'll suss that out after the kidneys straighten out. My kidney surgeons are staff doctors from Emory University a very decent medical school here in Atlanta Ga, and the hospital is my local Veterans Administration, who do have the best equipment availible, and the most experience due to the sheer volume they handle.

My blood pressure is at its winter worst mid 130's but will drop to 120 in another month as my business actually causes me to become active, drop a few pounds, and get in much better shape till it gets cold.

Thank you for reply

Silent Killer - (high) Blood Pressure

Kidney Stones

[Jet Gorgon]

6x11 mm, cm, or in???? Good lord, a big stone no matter which units you use.

I had a stone once and I thought I would die.... the only time I've ever thrown up simply from nausea resulting from pain. I've heard that women who have had babies and also had kidneystones say that the kidneystones are the only comparable pain to labour. Threw up once in the bathroom; thought it was a stomach issue- misinterpreted the pain as a stomach ache. Went to the doc's office; told them I was in incredible pain and needed to see the doc as soon as possible. He made me wait 10 minutes or more, and so I threw up again in his waiting room- it expedited the visit. Turns out that the stone was too small to break up; it was just allowed eventually to pass (drink LOOOOOTS of water!)- pissed through a tea-strainer for a month.

"S"

No kidding, Teach. That's exactly what happened to me.

Sure hope you recover soon, Mogoso. Let us know how you do.