65000 Baht Wire Transfer for Thai Retirement Visa (Failure and Scam)

[usmike]

I am an American who falls under the new Thai Immigration Rules; I am using the income method.  In the past was using my Wells Fargo Bank ATM card to move/ convert  US dollars to Thai Baht and deposit into the my Bangkok Bank account. (Yes, I know fees and exchange rate sucks).  Since this method does not meet Thai immigration rules; I decided for the month of June to use the bank wire transfer route.  What a disaster it turned out to be.

I contacted my Thailand Bank (Bangkok Bank, Jomtien) and they provided the nice card showing the swift code and routing number, all very clear, and they explained the FFT code (Foreign Funds Transfer) that will show next to each transfer.

I then contacted the Wells Fargo Bank and set up the on-line wire transfer system, this “by the way” requires the use of a 4 digit security they send via iPhone messenger to only a USA number only.  This number must be inputted into their screen within 30 seconds to move forward on their software; this occurs 4 times. Try doing this from Thailand?  I then inputted all of Bangkok Bank swift codes, my account numbers, addresses on USA, addresses in Thailand and then finish up with transfer amount in Thai Baht 65000.  The last page confirms the 65000 transfer amount, transfer fee $35.00 and exchange rate, (29.061 THB/USD) Ouch!!!! Arrival date for funds 4 days.  I did not like this; but made transfer to meet the New Thai Immigration requirements.

When to the Bangkok Bank to get my transfer recorded in the passbook. Disaster struck!!!  The transfer was 451 THB short and the bank code was BTN not FFT. I asked them what happened, and they said the transfer came from Kasikorn Bank in Bangkok so it was not a foreign funds transfer.  (I have no account with Kasikorn bank nor was in any documents I provided to Well Fargo.  Bangkok Bank Clerk gave me the same blank stare “not my problem, nothing I can do.”  

I waited until that night until I could call Wells Fargo Bank in the USA and, after several hours on the phone and talking to different managers and executives. I got the story that they did transfer the full 65000 to Bangkok Bank but was told by BKB to use Kasikorn Bank. Of course this is all of this is Nonsense. I do not have enough evidence yet, but think that Wells Fargo did transfer through Kasikorn Bank who used a rip-off exchange rate and took a handling fee and they transferred the THB balance to my Bangkok Bank account.

Final result: nobody takes responsibly all done on line.   The transfer does not meet the 65000 THB monthly amount and the transfer is not a FFT transfer as required by Immigration since it was an internal Thai Baht transfer; in other words; in Thai Immigration’s eyes, no transfer made this month; so no retirement visa extended.

In reality Kasikorn Bank scammed Wells Fargo Bank which ripped me off on an extremely bad exchange rate and handling fee and prevented Bangkok Bank from getting the foreign currency.

As for me, I am getting ready to leave Thailand when my Retirement Visa is not extended in October.

Anyone else have this experience???

[steven100]

Bangkok bank .... ????   lol   .....  I have a direct debit BB Visa card and I can't even pay a $2.50 VPN bill with it !!

So I do sympathize with you and all your problem.  

Why didn't you make the transfer for say 70,000 just to be safe ....  I know it's easy to say after but nothing ever goes according to plan in Thailand .....

All I can say is ALWAYS have a plan B 

[pontious]

5 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Bangkok bank .... ????   lol   .....  I have a direct debit BB Visa card and I can't even pay a $2.50 VPN bill with it !!

So I do sympathize with you and all your problem.  

Why didn't you make the transfer for say 70,000 just to be safe ....  I know it's easy to say after but nothing ever goes according to plan in Thailand .....

All I can say is ALWAYS have a plan B 

70,000 Baht would not have helped - it came as a domestic transfer. Unacceptable to immigration. OP - look at the Transferwise thread on this page. Many people are in the same boat.

Edited July 3, 2019 by pontious

[johnjohn2]

Unless you have a UK bank account I am not sure a way ahead with money transfers. With UK bank account you can still use swift via their B Bank account branch there. But no more with the US branch. 

It seems like its almost impossible unless you are using money in the bank method.

 

[simple1]

OP: Sounds as though your US bank are using Kasikorn as their corresponding bank who have charged the fee of 451 baht for the transaction. Not a rip-off / scam. If I were you I would send an email to Wells Fargo FX Department requesting a solution to your issue.

[ubonjoe]

The problem could of resulted due you doing the transfer as baht. You a get better exchange rate here than what you get when you do the transfer in baht in the states.

Try transferring a small amount in dollars to see if goes directly to Bangkok Bank.

[Thailand]

Your funds came via Kasikorn Bank to your Bangkok Bank account and there was a charge made by  Kasikorn Bank for the privilege,probably the 451 baht.

 

A statement from Bangkok Bank (Not your local branch) head office will show GPSD Head Office which indicates funds are from abroad.

 

[Thaidream]

32 minutes ago, usmike said:

In reality Kasikorn Bank scammed Wells Fargo Bank which ripped me off on an extremely bad exchange rate and handling fee and prevented Bangkok Bank from getting the foreign currency.

As for me, I am getting ready to leave Thailand when my Retirement Visa is not extended in October.

Anyone else have this experience???

This is exactly  why I refuse to do this.   Your bank does not have a direct way to transfer to your overseas bank- so it uses another bank that it can use direct and that bank then transfers to your bank.  The problem is that it then shows as a domestic transfer in your bankbook.

 

In addition- all of the banks take a piece of the money as a service charge and they have given you the wrong rate.

 

How did you manage to get the 4 digit security code as it has to go to a US Bank?  

 

I still use my US ATM card to get money from Thai ATMs.  Next year- unless they change this ridiculous system- change from retirement to marriage with 400K in the bank. 

 

 

[WalkingOrders]

I am a bit confused about what happened to you, I can only say this. I use income method my US gov retirement is direct deposited to a direct deposit account at bangkok bank using the NYC routing. I have to directly pick up these funds at the counter, no atm is associated with this account. These are US gov rules. If I want, I could put the funds in a second bangkok bank accout, but I put them into kbank, because I like kbank. I have never had a problem with immigration. I am here over 3 yrs on a retirement extension.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

a couple things here...

 

1. It's not uncommon for U.S. banks to use what's called corresponding banks to serve as the middlemen in international funds transfers for whatever reason. That could be why Wells went thru Kasikorn, though Wells ought to be able to tell you if they do or don't use a corresponding bank for wire transfers to Thailand.

 

2. Yes, you did get a lousy exchange rate. In doing any kind of international xfer for Immigration purposes, you gotta build in a margin of cushion to cover fees and exchange rate fluctuations (or bank ripoffs as the case may be).

 

3. It's possible, if you get the transaction details from BKKB, you might be able to go to Kasikorn Bank's HQ and get them to issue you something called a credit advice letter that documents the transfer of your funds into Thailand. That MIGHT help with Immigration, but no guarantees.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[glegolo]

The rest of us other guys, most of us, use Transferwise it seems, and even for you in USA it seems to work out nicely.

Try that and do not give up..

 

glegolo

[Thailand J]

53 minutes ago, usmike said:

 I then inputted all of Bangkok Bank swift codes, my account numbers, addresses on USA, addresses in Thailand and then finish up with transfer amount in Thai Baht 65000.

I have never transfer in Thai baht, always   in US$.  Calculate 65000 B in US dollar .Exchange rate   fluctuates so add a few percentage.

If you repeatly use the same bank, you should know what is the fee of intermediary bank. Add that too.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Thailand J

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The problem could of resulted due you doing the transfer as baht. You a get better exchange rate here than what you get when you do the transfer in baht in the states.

Try transferring a small amount in dollars to see if goes directly to Bangkok Bank.

 

I'm not sure how the OP sent his funds. But Joe's right... For wire transfers from the U.S., Americans should NEVER have the U.S. bank handle the currency exchange and send baht. Rather, Americans should ALWAYS have the U.S. bank send straight USD and let the receiving Thai bank handle the currency exchange.

 

[pontious]

5 minutes ago, glegolo said:

The rest of us other guys, most of us, use Transferwise it seems, and even for you in USA it seems to work out nicely.

Try that and do not give up..

 

glegolo

Have you read the Transferwise thread on this page.?

Edited July 3, 2019 by pontious

[grobec]

Always transfer in foreign currency.
Better rate here and should show an exchange code or receipt.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[EricTh]

Many people are considering other destinations like Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia and Latin countries. You might want to consider that.

[racyrick]

16 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Your funds came via Kasikorn Bank to your Bangkok Bank account and there was a charge made by  Kasikorn Bank for the privilege,probably the 451 baht.

 

A statement from Bangkok Bank (Not your local branch) head office will show GPSD Head Office which indicates funds are from abroad.

 

Can you please explain what GPSD stands for?

 

Also, will a statement from the head office also show that funds were from abroad when you have a SMART code transaction for a TransferWise transfer from the USA?

At worst, will the statement show that TransferWise was the sender?

Thanks

[glegolo]

10 minutes ago, pontious said:

Have you read the Transferwise thread on this page.?

No..... what is the name of the thread so I can look it up

 

thanks

glegolo

[racyrick]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

a couple things here...

 

1. It's not uncommon for U.S. banks to use what's called corresponding banks to serve as the middlemen in international funds transfers for whatever reason. That could be why Wells went thru Kasikorn, though Wells ought to be able to tell you if they do or don't use a corresponding bank for wire transfers to Thailand.

 

2. Yes, you did get a lousy exchange rate. In doing any kind of international xfer for Immigration purposes, you gotta build in a margin of cushion to cover fees and exchange rate fluctuations (or bank ripoffs as the case may be).

 

3. It's possible, if you get the transaction details from BKKB, you might be able to go to Kasikorn Bank's HQ and get them to issue you something called a credit advice letter that documents the transfer of your funds into Thailand. That MIGHT help with Immigration, but no guarantees.

 

TransferWise has changed they way they do their transfers and everybody is now being coded as a SMART transaction (SMT).

The funds are being run thru K Bank and then to Bangkok Bank.

 

My question is, if you go to Bangkok Bank and ask for transaction details for the TW transfer with the SMT coding, will it show TW as the sender or that it is an international transfer and went thru K Bank?

 

Thanks for your help.

[pontious]

1 minute ago, glegolo said:

No..... what is the name of the thread so I can look it up

 

thanks

glegolo

At the moment it is the one above this thread.

[racyrick]

2 minutes ago, glegolo said:

No..... what is the name of the thread so I can look it up

 

thanks

glegolo

Headlines-TransferWise international transfers heads up

 

On the front page and the Thai Visa Forum heading

[Thailand]

17 minutes ago, racyrick said:

Can you please explain what GPSD stands for?

 

Also, will a statement from the head office also show that funds were from abroad when you have a SMART code transaction for a TransferWise transfer from the USA?

At worst, will the statement show that TransferWise was the sender?

Thanks

Global Payments Service Department

 

Sorry, don't know the answer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, racyrick said:

TransferWise has changed they way they do their transfers and everybody is now being coded as a SMART transaction (SMT).

The funds are being run thru K Bank and then to Bangkok Bank.

 

 

The OP here didn't do a Transferwise transfer. He did a regular wire transfer originating from his Wells Fargo bank in the U.S.  So his issue and your topic would seem to be different things.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, glegolo said:

The rest of us other guys, most of us, use Transferwise it seems, and even for you in USA it seems to work out nicely.

Try that and do not give up..

 

 

I sent a regular couple wire transfers earlier this year from both a U.S. brokerage and a U.S. credit union to my BKKB account. In all of those cases, the transfers were sent as USD, got BKKB's TT exchange rate, and were coded by BKKB in my online banking recap as "International Transfer".

 

Had I been doing them for Immigration purposes, they would have qualified just fine...

 

It's really up to the sending U.S. financial institution how they handle and route their international wire transfers.

 

[Pacific Traveler]

45 minutes ago, pontious said:

Have you read the Transferwise thread on this page.?

Looking for the Transferwise thread but not seeing it.  I sent the 800,000 in several transactions (4) to SCB money arrived in 3-4 days without issue. Will renew Visa next month hopefully no issues. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Pacific Traveler

[Puchaiyank]

2 minutes ago, Pacific Traveler said:

Looking for the Transferwise thread but not seeing it.  I sent the 800,000 in several transactions (4) to SCB money arrived in 3-4 days without issue.  Due to renew Visa next month hopefully no issues. 

How about giving us your experience with immigration...

Thanks!  ????

[Pacific Traveler]

43 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Many people are considering other destinations like Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia and Latin countries. You might want to consider that.

Definitely under consideration if any issues with renewal. 

[Pacific Traveler]

Just now, Puchaiyank said:

How about giving us your experience with immigration...

Thanks!  ????

I most certainly will.  Another concern is the 90 day reporting.  I'm in and out of Thailand since getting the O Visa never stayed up to the 90 days where reporting would be required.  It was my understanding that my re-entry was the same as reporting and 90 day clock started over at each entry.  Hopefully my information was correct and this too does not come back to bite me. 

[Pacific Traveler]

3 minutes ago, Pacific Traveler said:

I most certainly will.  Another concern is the 90 day reporting.  I'm in and out of Thailand since getting the O Visa never stayed up to the 90 days where reporting would be required.  It was my understanding that my re-entry was the same as reporting and 90 day clock started over at each entry.  Hopefully my information was correct and this too does not come back to bite me. 

Immigration has always been top notch and professional, I use the Jomtien office and getting Residency letters to open bank accounts and apply for Driving license they are very kind and helpful.  If I spoke more Thai it would be even smoother and I'm working on that.

[pontious]

23 minutes ago, Pacific Traveler said:

Looking for the Transferwise thread but not seeing it.  I sent the 800,000 in several transactions (4) to SCB money arrived in 3-4 days without issue. Will renew Visa next month hopefully no issues. 

International Transferwise heads up. It is on page 1 of Thai visa, Residency and work permits. 

If you are using 800,000 in the bank method then it does not matter if it was domestic or international - this thread is about people trying to use the 65000 income method.

As long as your money was in the bank 2 months before applying you should be fine.

Edited July 3, 2019 by pontious