Thailand Blacklisted From Receiving New AIDS Drugs

[larvidchr]

I believe that without the patent system, mankind would not have experienced the revelation of discoveries in the last century.

The US Patent System Is Out of Control!

It seems that every day somebody finds a patent that just makes everyone's jaws drop open in utter astonishment. Here's one I just discovered: US patent 5,443,036 covers the use of a laser pointer in playing with a cat. Check it out; this is not a joke, unless you consider (as I do) the entire US patent system to be one very sick joke.

Patently Absurd

When twenty-first-century historians look back at the breakdown of the United States patent system, they will see a turning point in the case of Jeff Bezos and Amazon.com and their special invention: "the patented 1-click feature," Bezos calls it.

American Patent System

As firms competed for larger market shares, control not only of inventions but of the inventors themselves often became an important strategy.

I totally agree, I once read that some firm/man (American) wanted a patent on the human dna, i dont know if he got it, but if he did it is the right of everybody else in the world to completely ignore this patent, dont get me wrong, i am Britan/America eternally grateful for my freedom wich they fought and died for in the 2 world war, but some things are completely out of control in America these days.

One is the farma companys and the pricing of their products, it has no real connection to development costs and production costs, and there is no body/organisation to police these companys pricing policies, an other major problem is the American tradition for sueing everybody for everything wich ads to the price of products in a total uncontrolable way. ( A Jugde sued a dry cleaner for 65 mill. usd. for having lost his favorite pair of pants, this week)

Brazil have just anounced they are going same way as Thailand with regard to HIV medicine, declaring that the American position was a blatant disregard for Brazilian human lives. The American company offering Brazil a discount of 30% to make the price a little more than 1 usd. pr. unit, Brazil is rejecting that offer and is going to buy a copy drug in India for about 30 cents pr. unit.

I have a friend producing plastic tubing for use in kidney machines, and he showed me laughing how a pice of tubing costing less than 1 cent after being sterilised and vacum packed, was sold for more than 50 usd. the profit is unbelivable even after costs of sterilising and packing+ distribution, alone because it is for medicinal use you can suddenly slab a fantasi price on a product, he does the same with some plastic containers for used syringes.

According to Thailand officials they only disregard patents on 3 products and this is to save human life that the country otherwise could not/will not save.

America can be proud of its efforts to defend freedom and fight terrorism on a global scale everyday. And at least I am thankfull for that.

But it is lousy and low to keep poor people from lifesaving drugs, regardless of their individual governments qualities and abilities to prioritice, the poor is still poor and unable to pay for the drugs.

Kind regards

[cclub75]

According to Thailand officials they only disregard patents on 3 products and this is to save human life that the country otherwise could not/will not save.

But it is lousy and low to keep poor people from lifesaving drugs, regardless of their individual governments qualities and abilities to prioritice, the poor is still poor and unable to pay for the drugs.

People are overwhelmed by the emotional side of this story.

Indeed, who could leave a child dying of Aids because his parents can't afford the proper drugs ? ...

Unfortunatly, we need to see a little bit further. Beyond.

It's enough to extrapolate : after Thailand, Brazil... Then all the other so called "poor" countries (untrue, Thailand and Brazil are not poor. Somalia is poor) will follow... What will happen ? Do you really believe that the drug companies will continue to invest a dollar into R&D if they know that after all the "poor" countries in the world will bypass their IP rights and cutting their revenues ?

So anyway, you want to save the child... God bless you for this generosity.

But at what cost eventually ?

A global freeze in R&D ?

Now you scare me.

[highdiver]

smelly? no.

frankly, I think it is good that we have somebody who will hopefully look out for the interests of america and americans.

someone who understands the implications involved with our giving out our technology to people who may not be our friends.

it's about time we do what everybody else is doing. ..looking out for their own people's interest.

like I said earlier, china is doing it, japan is doing it, thailand is doing it. hey. even chavez is doing it. so, I see no wrong in america doing it too. right?

like thailand's motto - khon thai riplao?

america FOR americans.

has a good ring to it, doesn't it?

no more h1b visas. no more donations overseas.

you are absolutely right. however.... americans have intersts world wide and american interests are not restricted to only the geograpy of the usa.

as such America is using its financial and militery power as a role player in world economy and politics and they do do to protect amercian interests. I belive its called "forign policy" a politicaly corect name for making sure that major american companies and very rich amesricans can make more and more money.

the drug companies have a huge lobby in DC and they use this power to influence Ameican ploicy for financial intrests.

the problem starts when other countries prefer to protect local intrest over american ones. then American who stand to loose a lot of money will use every trick in the book to make sure they can continue to make money.

[highdiver]

According to Thailand officials they only disregard patents on 3 products and this is to save human life that the country otherwise could not/will not save.

But it is lousy and low to keep poor people from lifesaving drugs, regardless of their individual governments qualities and abilities to prioritice, the poor is still poor and unable to pay for the drugs.

People are overwhelmed by the emotional side of this story.

Indeed, who could leave a child dying of Aids because his parents can't afford the proper drugs ? ...

Unfortunatly, we need to see a little bit further. Beyond.

It's enough to extrapolate : after Thailand, Brazil... Then all the other so called "poor" countries (untrue, Thailand and Brazil are not poor. Somalia is poor) will follow... What will happen ? Do you really believe that the drug companies will continue to invest a dollar into R&D if they know that after all the "poor" countries in the world will bypass their IP rights and cutting their revenues ?

So anyway, you want to save the child... God bless you for this generosity.

But at what cost eventually ?

A global freeze in R&D ?

Now you scare me.

The usa patent office has lost controll. and they are actually patenting life itself. there has to be an end to this.

Drug companies invest in R&D forthe sole purpose of making money... big piles of it.

once they get a patent they play "god"in deciding who will get the drugs and who will not.

the fufuture is now more gloomy as drug companies are pattenting life itself.

Patents were historically developed to insure that inventors could share in the financial returns and benefits deriving from the use of their inventions. With the development of the modern corporation, patent rights were always assigned to the company rather than an individual. This gives the patent holder a form of monopoly control for 20 years from the filing of the patent, and creates a legal means of limiting competition. Private investors generally regard such monopolies as favorable to their interests, so in many industries patents aid in the development of new products.

For over two hundred years living organisms have been excluded from patent laws; life forms were considered a "product of nature" and not a human invention. The non-patentable status of living organisms changed with the 1980 landmark Supreme Court case Diamond v. Chakrabarty. The court decided in a narrow 5-4 decision that a strain of bacteria that had been modified by the insertion of new genes was patentable because it was not naturally occurring. The foreign genes gave the bacteria the ability to break down hydrocarbons, and its "inventors" hoped it might be useful for cleaning up oil spills.

A most alarming aspect of patenting life is the patenting of human genes, cell lines and tissues. Corporate patent attorneys have lobbied the Patent office that these "products of nature" are patentable once they have been isolated to produce a form not found outside of a laboratory. For example, in 1976 a leukemia patient named John Moore had surgery at the University of California to remove his cancerous spleen. The University was later granted a patent for a cell line called "Mo," removed from the spleen, which could be used for producing valuable proteins. The long term commercial value of the cell line was estimated at over one billion dollars. Mr. Moore demanded the return of the cells and control over his body parts, but the California Supreme Court decided that he was not entitled to any rights to his own cells after they had been removed from his body.

Patenting plant life will also intensify the inequality between the developing and industrialized nations. The open exchange of seeds and plant material over the centuries has given the U.S. and Europe potatoes and tomatoes from Latin America, soybeans from China, and wheat, rye and barley from the Middle East, to name but a few. The developing world has never received compensation or recognition for these intellectual and technological contributions. Patenting plant life will exacerbate this inequality. While centuries of innovation by indigenous farmers have created most of the food crops grown today, the tinkering by agribusiness entitles them to claim a plant as their own invention, and receive all profits from its use. This "biocolonialism" will continue the pattern of a few transnational corporations profiting at the expense of large numbers of indigenous farmers.

The hunt for new genes to exploit for profit is regarded as a vast new frontier in science and industry. "Bioprospectors" are mining the rich genetic resources of the Third World for pharmaceutical compounds and other products, often using indigenous knowledge as their guide. As a result, indigenous communities could end up paying royalties for products based on plants and knowledge that they have been using for centuries.

As new DNA sequences on our chromosomes are being identified, entrepreneurial scientists are applying for patents in order to claim exclusive rights to research and profits from thousands of such gene sequences. The Human Genome Organization (HUGO) is an international membership organization of individual scientists dedicated to coordinating efforts in genome research. HUGO recently released a statement in favor of the right of those who have determined the biological functions or products of the genes to patent their work. Patents are necessary, they claim, to provide financial incentive for scientists to do meaningful research. Does the research of molecular biologists give them the right to own genes?

The neem tree, a native of the Indian subcontinent, has a myriad of applications in traditional Indian Ayurvedic and Tibetan medicine, agriculture, and household use, as well as being symbolic as "Gandhi's favorite tree." Its usefulness is known throughout India. The Latin name, Azadirachta indica, is derived from the Persian for "free tree," as even the poorest families have access to its beneficial properties.

However, it is possible that Indian citizens will soon be required to pay royalties on the products produced from the neem, since a patent has been granted to the U.S. company W.R. Grace on a compound in the tree (azadirachtin) for the production of a biopesticide. In 1993, over five hundred thousand South Indian farmers rallied to protest foreign patents on plants such as the neem, and launched a nation-wide resistance movement. Under free trade agreements such as GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade), countries of the developing world will feel strong pressures to implement U.S.-style patent systems. Multi-national corporations can make large profits on their "discoveries," while depriving the communities which have fostered this knowledge for centuries of the choice of how they would like to use their own knowledge and native species.

Patents held by the industrialized world on resources from the developing world will serve as a tool for the North to accumulate more wealth from the already economically impoverished South. Microorganisms, plants, animals and even the genes of indigenous people have been patented for the production of pharmaceuticals and other products. Requiring developing nations to pay royalties to the wealthy industrial nations for products derived from their own natural resources and innovation is robbery.

the whole patent system is out of control.. this situation can go on.

[larvidchr]

Do you really believe that the drug companies will continue to invest a dollar into R&D if they know that after all the "poor" countries in the world will bypass their IP rights and cutting their revenues ?

Yes I not only belive it, I know they will, their revenues is allready enormus, they could afford to give away the drugs to the needy poor and still make a bundle, can you name a lot of drugs where the price have been lowered significantly after the costs of R&D have been recovered, I think not.

Unfurtunately the maximising of profits for the shareholders, makes terms as "morality/decency" citys in very cold siberia( translated to nobody cares)

I dont care wether Thailand on paper is resonable rich compared to Somalia, I know that the ordinary Thai rural farmer is poor and the vast majority of Thais I see around me here in Pattaya is poor, so poor that they can not pay the inflated prices on drugs.

You can think it is allright for millions to die, to protect the financial interests of private companys who dont giva a F###.

I on the other hand, would like parameters like decency and morals to be implemented in good business ethics, even if it hurts on the bottomline.

Kind regards

[larvidchr]

Now you scare me.

The usa patent office has lost controll. and they are actually patenting life itself. there has to be an end to this.

Drug companies invest in R&D forthe sole purpose of making money... big piles of it.

once they get a patent they play "god"in deciding who will get the drugs and who will not.

the fufuture is now more gloomy as drug companies are pattenting life itself.

Patents were historically developed to insure that inventors could share in the financial returns and benefits deriving from the use of their inventions. With the development of the modern corporation, patent rights were always assigned to the company rather than an individual. This gives the patent holder a form of monopoly control for 20 years from the filing of the patent, and creates a legal means of limiting competition. Private investors generally regard such monopolies as favorable to their interests, so in many industries patents aid in the development of new products.

For over two hundred years living organisms have been excluded from patent laws; life forms were considered a "product of nature" and not a human invention. The non-patentable status of living organisms changed with the 1980 landmark Supreme Court case Diamond v. Chakrabarty. The court decided in a narrow 5-4 decision that a strain of bacteria that had been modified by the insertion of new genes was patentable because it was not naturally occurring. The foreign genes gave the bacteria the ability to break down hydrocarbons, and its "inventors" hoped it might be useful for cleaning up oil spills.

A most alarming aspect of patenting life is the patenting of human genes, cell lines and tissues. Corporate patent attorneys have lobbied the Patent office that these "products of nature" are patentable once they have been isolated to produce a form not found outside of a laboratory. For example, in 1976 a leukemia patient named John Moore had surgery at the University of California to remove his cancerous spleen. The University was later granted a patent for a cell line called "Mo," removed from the spleen, which could be used for producing valuable proteins. The long term commercial value of the cell line was estimated at over one billion dollars. Mr. Moore demanded the return of the cells and control over his body parts, but the California Supreme Court decided that he was not entitled to any rights to his own cells after they had been removed from his body.

Patenting plant life will also intensify the inequality between the developing and industrialized nations. The open exchange of seeds and plant material over the centuries has given the U.S. and Europe potatoes and tomatoes from Latin America, soybeans from China, and wheat, rye and barley from the Middle East, to name but a few. The developing world has never received compensation or recognition for these intellectual and technological contributions. Patenting plant life will exacerbate this inequality. While centuries of innovation by indigenous farmers have created most of the food crops grown today, the tinkering by agribusiness entitles them to claim a plant as their own invention, and receive all profits from its use. This "biocolonialism" will continue the pattern of a few transnational corporations profiting at the expense of large numbers of indigenous farmers.

The hunt for new genes to exploit for profit is regarded as a vast new frontier in science and industry. "Bioprospectors" are mining the rich genetic resources of the Third World for pharmaceutical compounds and other products, often using indigenous knowledge as their guide. As a result, indigenous communities could end up paying royalties for products based on plants and knowledge that they have been using for centuries.

As new DNA sequences on our chromosomes are being identified, entrepreneurial scientists are applying for patents in order to claim exclusive rights to research and profits from thousands of such gene sequences. The Human Genome Organization (HUGO) is an international membership organization of individual scientists dedicated to coordinating efforts in genome research. HUGO recently released a statement in favor of the right of those who have determined the biological functions or products of the genes to patent their work. Patents are necessary, they claim, to provide financial incentive for scientists to do meaningful research. Does the research of molecular biologists give them the right to own genes?

The neem tree, a native of the Indian subcontinent, has a myriad of applications in traditional Indian Ayurvedic and Tibetan medicine, agriculture, and household use, as well as being symbolic as "Gandhi's favorite tree." Its usefulness is known throughout India. The Latin name, Azadirachta indica, is derived from the Persian for "free tree," as even the poorest families have access to its beneficial properties.

However, it is possible that Indian citizens will soon be required to pay royalties on the products produced from the neem, since a patent has been granted to the U.S. company W.R. Grace on a compound in the tree (azadirachtin) for the production of a biopesticide. In 1993, over five hundred thousand South Indian farmers rallied to protest foreign patents on plants such as the neem, and launched a nation-wide resistance movement. Under free trade agreements such as GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade), countries of the developing world will feel strong pressures to implement U.S.-style patent systems. Multi-national corporations can make large profits on their "discoveries," while depriving the communities which have fostered this knowledge for centuries of the choice of how they would like to use their own knowledge and native species.

Patents held by the industrialized world on resources from the developing world will serve as a tool for the North to accumulate more wealth from the already economically impoverished South. Microorganisms, plants, animals and even the genes of indigenous people have been patented for the production of pharmaceuticals and other products. Requiring developing nations to pay royalties to the wealthy industrial nations for products derived from their own natural resources and innovation is robbery.

the whole patent system is out of control.. this situation can go on.

Now this is really scary

[cclub75]

can you name a lot of drugs where the price have been lowered significantly after the costs of R&D have been recovered, I think not.

No. But what for ? Profits of today are the R&D (investments) of tomorrow.

I dont care wether Thailand on paper is resonable rich compared to Somalia, I know that the ordinary Thai rural farmer is poor and the vast majority of Thais I see around me here in Pattaya is poor, so poor that they can not pay the inflated prices on drugs.

You don't care, but again it's the core of the discussion.

Who ask the poor thais to buy themselves the drugs ? Nobody. Thailand should be able, should be willing to help the poors. They have a social security system, the famous 30 THB scheme. The problem however is that it's not enough funded.

By breaking IP, rights Thailand wants to save 1.6 billions THB.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118545

Thailand is ready to spend a few dozen millions USD to buy a new B737 for the royal family.

Thailand is ready to create a 44 billions THB "stimulus package" to boost the economy.

Thailand was ready in 2005 to buy dozen Sukhoi fighter jets from Russia, worth 17 billions THB.

http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Thailand_...ers_Report.html

etc.

But Thailand refuses to help its poor citizen, by buying the propers drugs at their proper prices.

This is the core of the discussion. And the immorality that you're speaking about is here.

Now, if you really want to speak about morality, then yes I agree, there should be a debate about real poor countries, mainly in Africa. Where Aids and dozen of other diseases take a heavy toll.

But Thailand ? This is laughable. And eventually, the greed that you despise so much, is the only reason of the thai government's move.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

So much for the arguement the drugs will only be used for the poor. The Gold card mentioned in the article below is the access card for Thailand's universal healthcare system. It is no longer the 30 baht plan it is the free plan. Weathy and middle class Thais who want to save money on Plavix or HIV drugs can walk into the nearest government hospital to claim their free medication just like the poor.

Licence-busting 'will save B1.6 bln'

(TNA) - The Thai government will save more than 1.6 billion baht annually on three medications used to treat patients suffering from HIV/Aids and heart diseases by compulsory licencing (CL), a senior official said.

Dr San-guan Nityarumpong, secretary-general of the National Health Security Office (NHSC), said Thailand can save between one billion and 1.7 billion baht annually on Efavirenz, Kaletra and Plavix medicines used by government-sponsored "gold card" holders.

AND

It is estimated that the ministry will use 20.5 million tablets of the anti-clotting agent Plavix for 45 million gold card patients this year, inf which it could save 1.23 billion baht by using compulsory licencing.

Full article here:

http://bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/break...s.php?id=118545

[nick2k]

smelly? no.

frankly, I think it is good that we have somebody who will hopefully look out for the interests of america and americans.

someone who understands the implications involved with our giving out our technology to people who may not be our friends.

it's about time we do what everybody else is doing. ..looking out for their own people's interest.

like I said earlier, china is doing it, japan is doing it, thailand is doing it. hey. even chavez is doing it. so, I see no wrong in america doing it too. right?

like thailand's motto - khon thai riplao?

america FOR americans.

has a good ring to it, doesn't it?

no more h1b visas. no more donations overseas.

you are absolutely right. however.... americans have intersts world wide and american interests are not restricted to only the geograpy of the usa.

as such America is using its financial and militery power as a role player in world economy and politics and they do do to protect amercian interests. I belive its called "forign policy" a politicaly corect name for making sure that major american companies and very rich amesricans can make more and more money.

the drug companies have a huge lobby in DC and they use this power to influence Ameican ploicy for financial intrests.

the problem starts when other countries prefer to protect local intrest over american ones. then American who stand to loose a lot of money will use every trick in the book to make sure they can continue to make money.

make money? haven't you heard? we have an annual deficit of over 100+ billion? so, we are making money hand and foot right? the truth of the matter is america is THE most generous country in the world. no communist country can come close.

you want to talk about self interest. ok. then, tell me why thailand devalued their currency back in 1997. why didn't they stick with the 25 to 1 rate that they had so long? I'll tell you why.. they want to stick it to everybody they owe money to. that's is what every country does in the world when they don't want to pay back their debts.

in the last century, most countries in the world have devalued or changed their currency directly or indirectly AT LEAST ONCE so that they could reschedule their debts. ..did america call them evil? no. they said they understood, and remained friends.

one of the few countries in the world that did not do this is - america. so, guess what the world will say if america changes their currency? for sure, they will say - they are evil.

after ww2, when most countries in the world who were devastated by the war needed help, america came to their aid with the marshall plan. we spent billions on the world to fix them up. and from what I understand, NOT one dime has been repaid. did america try to force them to pay up? no. ..is that a sign of an evil, money hungry country?

you sir need to study your history before making assumptions that america is evil.

my guess is - you watch too many movies. and your mind is too simple to know the truth from fiction.

[highdiver]

smelly? no.

frankly, I think it is good that we have somebody who will hopefully look out for the interests of america and americans.

someone who understands the implications involved with our giving out our technology to people who may not be our friends.

it's about time we do what everybody else is doing. ..looking out for their own people's interest.

like I said earlier, china is doing it, japan is doing it, thailand is doing it. hey. even chavez is doing it. so, I see no wrong in america doing it too. right?

like thailand's motto - khon thai riplao?

america FOR americans.

has a good ring to it, doesn't it?

no more h1b visas. no more donations overseas.

you are absolutely right. however.... americans have intersts world wide and american interests are not restricted to only the geograpy of the usa.

as such America is using its financial and militery power as a role player in world economy and politics and they do do to protect amercian interests. I belive its called "forign policy" a politicaly corect name for making sure that major american companies and very rich amesricans can make more and more money.

the drug companies have a huge lobby in DC and they use this power to influence Ameican ploicy for financial intrests.

the problem starts when other countries prefer to protect local intrest over american ones. then American who stand to loose a lot of money will use every trick in the book to make sure they can continue to make money.

make money? haven't you heard? we have an annual deficit of over 100+ billion? so, we are making money hand and foot right? the truth of the matter is america is THE most generous country in the world. no communist country can come close.

you want to talk about self interest. ok. then, tell me why thailand devalued their currency back in 1997. why didn't they stick with the 25 to 1 rate that they had so long? I'll tell you why.. they want to stick it to everybody they owe money to. that's is what every country does in the world when they don't want to pay back their debts.

in the last century, most countries in the world have devalued or changed their currency directly or indirectly AT LEAST ONCE so that they could reschedule their debts. ..did america call them evil? no. they said they understood, and remained friends.

one of the few countries in the world that did not do this is - america. so, guess what the world will say if america changes their currency? for sure, they will say - they are evil.

after ww2, when most countries in the world who were devastated by the war needed help, america came to their aid with the marshall plan. we spent billions on the world to fix them up. and from what I understand, NOT one dime has been repaid. did america try to force them to pay up? no. ..is that a sign of an evil, money hungry country?

you sir need to study your history before making assumptions that america is evil.

my guess is - you watch too many movies. and your mind is too simple to know the truth from fiction.

Dear Nick Nick

you realy have taken my words and twisted them around... please read my previous posts again and maybe when you are calm you will see it diferently.

I did not say ameica or americans are evil. where did you see thsi in my text??? on the contrary I have the greatest respect for America. and I am very sad to see this great country running down hill.

American companies are making huge amounts of money and they are doing it because they have interests in other countries. and when ever those companies face a problem they call on the politicians to assist protecting those interests.

As for your views about curencies and devaluating capital. I suggest we discuss this on another forum.

[nick2k]

According to Thailand officials they only disregard patents on 3 products and this is to save human life that the country otherwise could not/will not save.

But it is lousy and low to keep poor people from lifesaving drugs, regardless of their individual governments qualities and abilities to prioritice, the poor is still poor and unable to pay for the drugs.

People are overwhelmed by the emotional side of this story.

Indeed, who could leave a child dying of Aids because his parents can't afford the proper drugs ? ...

Unfortunatly, we need to see a little bit further. Beyond.

It's enough to extrapolate : after Thailand, Brazil... Then all the other so called "poor" countries (untrue, Thailand and Brazil are not poor. Somalia is poor) will follow... What will happen ? Do you really believe that the drug companies will continue to invest a dollar into R&D if they know that after all the "poor" countries in the world will bypass their IP rights and cutting their revenues ?

So anyway, you want to save the child... God bless you for this generosity.

But at what cost eventually ?

A global freeze in R&D ?

Now you scare me.

The usa patent office has lost controll. and they are actually patenting life itself. there has to be an end to this.

Drug companies invest in R&D forthe sole purpose of making money... big piles of it.

once they get a patent they play "god"in deciding who will get the drugs and who will not.

the fufuture is now more gloomy as drug companies are pattenting life itself.

Patents were historically developed to insure that inventors could share in the financial returns and benefits deriving from the use of their inventions. With the development of the modern corporation, patent rights were always assigned to the company rather than an individual. This gives the patent holder a form of monopoly control for 20 years from the filing of the patent, and creates a legal means of limiting competition. Private investors generally regard such monopolies as favorable to their interests, so in many industries patents aid in the development of new products.

For over two hundred years living organisms have been excluded from patent laws; life forms were considered a "product of nature" and not a human invention. The non-patentable status of living organisms changed with the 1980 landmark Supreme Court case Diamond v. Chakrabarty. The court decided in a narrow 5-4 decision that a strain of bacteria that had been modified by the insertion of new genes was patentable because it was not naturally occurring. The foreign genes gave the bacteria the ability to break down hydrocarbons, and its "inventors" hoped it might be useful for cleaning up oil spills.

A most alarming aspect of patenting life is the patenting of human genes, cell lines and tissues. Corporate patent attorneys have lobbied the Patent office that these "products of nature" are patentable once they have been isolated to produce a form not found outside of a laboratory. For example, in 1976 a leukemia patient named John Moore had surgery at the University of California to remove his cancerous spleen. The University was later granted a patent for a cell line called "Mo," removed from the spleen, which could be used for producing valuable proteins. The long term commercial value of the cell line was estimated at over one billion dollars. Mr. Moore demanded the return of the cells and control over his body parts, but the California Supreme Court decided that he was not entitled to any rights to his own cells after they had been removed from his body.

Patenting plant life will also intensify the inequality between the developing and industrialized nations. The open exchange of seeds and plant material over the centuries has given the U.S. and Europe potatoes and tomatoes from Latin America, soybeans from China, and wheat, rye and barley from the Middle East, to name but a few. The developing world has never received compensation or recognition for these intellectual and technological contributions. Patenting plant life will exacerbate this inequality. While centuries of innovation by indigenous farmers have created most of the food crops grown today, the tinkering by agribusiness entitles them to claim a plant as their own invention, and receive all profits from its use. This "biocolonialism" will continue the pattern of a few transnational corporations profiting at the expense of large numbers of indigenous farmers.

The hunt for new genes to exploit for profit is regarded as a vast new frontier in science and industry. "Bioprospectors" are mining the rich genetic resources of the Third World for pharmaceutical compounds and other products, often using indigenous knowledge as their guide. As a result, indigenous communities could end up paying royalties for products based on plants and knowledge that they have been using for centuries.

As new DNA sequences on our chromosomes are being identified, entrepreneurial scientists are applying for patents in order to claim exclusive rights to research and profits from thousands of such gene sequences. The Human Genome Organization (HUGO) is an international membership organization of individual scientists dedicated to coordinating efforts in genome research. HUGO recently released a statement in favor of the right of those who have determined the biological functions or products of the genes to patent their work. Patents are necessary, they claim, to provide financial incentive for scientists to do meaningful research. Does the research of molecular biologists give them the right to own genes?

The neem tree, a native of the Indian subcontinent, has a myriad of applications in traditional Indian Ayurvedic and Tibetan medicine, agriculture, and household use, as well as being symbolic as "Gandhi's favorite tree." Its usefulness is known throughout India. The Latin name, Azadirachta indica, is derived from the Persian for "free tree," as even the poorest families have access to its beneficial properties.

However, it is possible that Indian citizens will soon be required to pay royalties on the products produced from the neem, since a patent has been granted to the U.S. company W.R. Grace on a compound in the tree (azadirachtin) for the production of a biopesticide. In 1993, over five hundred thousand South Indian farmers rallied to protest foreign patents on plants such as the neem, and launched a nation-wide resistance movement. Under free trade agreements such as GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade), countries of the developing world will feel strong pressures to implement U.S.-style patent systems. Multi-national corporations can make large profits on their "discoveries," while depriving the communities which have fostered this knowledge for centuries of the choice of how they would like to use their own knowledge and native species.

Patents held by the industrialized world on resources from the developing world will serve as a tool for the North to accumulate more wealth from the already economically impoverished South. Microorganisms, plants, animals and even the genes of indigenous people have been patented for the production of pharmaceuticals and other products. Requiring developing nations to pay royalties to the wealthy industrial nations for products derived from their own natural resources and innovation is robbery.

the whole patent system is out of control.. this situation can go on.

I agree that the patent system has some problems. but the system is what prompt the development of so many advancements in medicine in the last century. if it wasn't for the monetary incentive that the patent system provided as a reward to inventors, you wouldn't have the numerous inventions that occurred in the last century.

the patent system for all it's imperfections was still a major component in the improvement of mankind in the last century.

as for the problems that many developing countries have - yes. I agree. they do have a lot of problems. but the cause of their problems was not america. the problems that developing countries have are usually caused internally. the people in those countries don't have enough education to know what to do to improve their situation. why they don't have the education. I can't say.

..one possibility - maybe the ruling elite don't want them to be educated. another possibility is - the religious requirements in that country don't place much value in improving technology.

as for your claim that wealthy nations are robbing other countries of their natural resources... boy, you sure sound a lot like chavez. if it wasn't for the knowledge that foreigners bring into other countries, you wouldn't have a resource to begin with. robbery? from what I understand is - people are getting paid for the use of the property - right? things were negotiated, and a price was agreed upon. ..that is not robbery.

if you want to know what robbery is - what chavez is doing by nationalizing everything. ..that's robbery.

what thailand is doing by stealing the drugs - now, that's robbery.

personally, I would rather all american companies return to america. get the hel_l out of thailand and everywhere else. american companies should be in america providing jobs to americans. it should be pretty obvious to american companies that going into another country will eventually become a loss. after venezuela, thailand, and soon to happen, china, what is going thru your head?

you bring your technology into these countries, and the people still think you are robbing them? they still treat you like invading armies. ..so, what's the point? get the hel_l out, and come home.

we don't need ultra low prices for our goods. life will still be good. unlike what that jerk, bernake said. he doesn't know sh#t. japan has been doing this protectionism thing a long time, and they are not in bad shape, right? in fact, they have one of the highest life expectancy in the world.

[ColPyat]

you want to talk about self interest. ok. then, tell me why thailand devalued their currency back in 1997. why didn't they stick with the 25 to 1 rate that they had so long? I'll tell you why.. they want to stick it to everybody they owe money to. that's is what every country does in the world when they don't want to pay back their debts.

Rubbish.

Thailand did not devalue the Baht because the wanted to - Thailand did everything in order not having to have the Baht devalued, including emptying all foreign currency reserves trying to keep the Baht stuck to the Dollar and up at 25. And no, the did not "stick" it to everybody they owed money to - Thai companies borrowed in foreign currency and had to repay in foreign currency which was suddenly double as expensive, and that destroyed many Thai companies.

the patent system for all it's imperfections was still a major component in the improvement of mankind in the last century.

what thailand is doing by stealing the drugs - now, that's robbery.

Rubbish.

Integral part of the international patent laws, and major component, is that countries in case of national emergencies have the right to circumvent patent rights of important medicine under WTO regulations. Thailand by law is not stealing the drugs - they are clearly within their legal right.

The US for example has used the same law after 9/11 in the paranoia about the Anthrax virus against Bayer. But it appears that what is right for the US, is not right for the rest of the world, according to your warped ideas.

If all you views are based on such embarrassingly faulty data, please do us a favor and don't bother us with any more ultra-nationalist diatribes here. What do you anyhow do on a internet forum dealing with Thailand. Isn't there some America first forum around somewhere in some trailer park?

[Bottlerocket]

Yeah, it's like having a roommate that just takes your things without asking. First, it's your favorite sweatshirt; then it's your $400 iPod. "Do you wanna buy it from me, man?" Then, you agree on a price and the money never comes. So, you start to,...

No. No, that's wrong. It's not like that at all. It's like having a plane ticket to some place you've really wanted to go to for a really long time. As a matter of fact, it's the happiest time of your life. You're stoked! You get on the plane. You're up in the air. Everything's smooth until about 3 hours into the flight, at 45,000 feet, traversing a vast ocean, be it Pacific or Atlantic, doesn't matter, when all hel_l breaks loose. You look out of your window directly behind the wing (somewhere along the line you were told that that's the safest place to be in a plane, though you're not quite so sure at this moment) and the port engine is delicately vomiting a thick black stream of smoke into the thin and freezing atmosphere. The plane dips and the oxygen masks fall from above. Of course, like any self-respecting human being you do what all self-respecting human beings would do: grab the mask and hyperventilate yourself into unconsciousness hopefully before plunging into the depths of the quickly approaching sea below. And all because some inferior-quality alloy bolt snapped somewhere due to improper quality control checks at the sweatshop in Xu Jiao Wang Bang Factory of Superior People Knowledge, Ltd, LLC, Inc. Company.

Yeah, I think it could be more like that. You see, it's not just about movies, music, and software. It's about important things. The medicine they produce is normally inferior in quality and they don't even have the same sort of testing and assurance requirements that the west does. They're not ready for this kind of stuff. There's too much corruption. No one will ever tell them they are wrong. At least people are watching in the west. Here they can't even stand up for their right to vote and govern themselves.

[cclub75]

Integral part of the international patent laws, and major component, is that countries in case of national emergencies have the right to circumvent patent rights of important medicine under WTO regulations. Thailand by law is not stealing the drugs - they are clearly within their legal right.

The US for example has used the same law after 9/11 in the paranoia about the Anthrax virus against Bayer. But it appears that what is right for the US, is not right for the rest of the world, according to your warped ideas.

I'm tired to listen to the same BS, over and over.

Yes, Thailand has the right, under WTO provisions, to by pass IP rights.

However, you have to understand that the WTO provisions is related to "health national emergency".

Now, the discussion is :

-yes HIV is life threatening. Without good retro virals, patients can die very quickly.

-no a drug like Plavix is not an "health national emergency". This drug helps to "keep platelets from sticking together and forming clots, which can help protect against a future heart attack or stroke."

In other words : fatty thais that all their life are eating sugar in their food, who drink alcohool, make no sport, etc... could suffer from heart conditions. And would need to take Plavix in order to reduce the risk.

Where is the health national emergency in this ? A part to continue to enjoy eating greasy food ?

As for your last comment, allow me to think that only a "warped" mind could put on the same level anthrax and artery diseases !

Obviously, you can.

[ColPyat]

Integral part of the international patent laws, and major component, is that countries in case of national emergencies have the right to circumvent patent rights of important medicine under WTO regulations. Thailand by law is not stealing the drugs - they are clearly within their legal right.

The US for example has used the same law after 9/11 in the paranoia about the Anthrax virus against Bayer. But it appears that what is right for the US, is not right for the rest of the world, according to your warped ideas.

I'm tired to listen to the same BS, over and over.

Yes, Thailand has the right, under WTO provisions, to by pass IP rights.

However, you have to understand that the WTO provisions is related to "health national emergency".

Now, the discussion is :

-yes HIV is life threatening. Without good retro virals, patients can die very quickly.

-no a drug like Plavix is not an "health national emergency". This drug helps to "keep platelets from sticking together and forming clots, which can help protect against a future heart attack or stroke."

In other words : fatty thais that all their life are eating sugar in their food, who drink alcohool, make no sport, etc... could suffer from heart conditions. And would need to take Plavix in order to reduce the risk.

Where is the health national emergency in this ? A part to continue to enjoy eating greasy food ?

As for your last comment, allow me to think that only a "warped" mind could put on the same level anthrax and artery diseases !

Obviously, you can.

We can debate the individual drugs, and i have already stated that i personally believe that heart drugs should not be declared a national emergency. But the next generation of AIDS drugs should be.

Anthrax was not an issue, it was pure paranoia after a few hoax letters. There was no Anthrax epidemic by terrorist attacks.

Point is - Thailand has the right under WTO - and therefore they hardly can be criminals. Change the law, and then they might be. But so will be the US whenever there is another case of national paranoia that will be a reason to threaten to violate the patent rights.

But whatever you feel about the issue - Thailand is within its rights according to international law.

[chuchok]

As for your last comment, allow me to think that only a "warped" mind could put on the same level anthrax and artery diseases !

Obviously, you can.

I wonder how you would feel if you didn't have a pot to piss in.A wee bit different I should say....

[ColPyat]

Thailand is the one who made the decision to unpeg the baht from the dollar.

Listen up, Colon Pirate,

Normally, I ignore your self-hating, imbecillic bait-traps.

Jerk-off

Hardly "self-hating", as i am not American.

Anyhow, i thought there were rules about flaming.

[chuchok]

Listen up, Colon Pirate,

Jerk-off

Another intelligent and witty post.Give yourself a pat on the back.You do your country proud.

[Tywais]

Hardly "self-hating", as i am not American.

Anyhow, i thought there were rules about flaming.

He has some time on his hands now to re-read them.

[nick2k]

Integral part of the international patent laws, and major component, is that countries in case of national emergencies have the right to circumvent patent rights of important medicine under WTO regulations. Thailand by law is not stealing the drugs - they are clearly within their legal right.

The US for example has used the same law after 9/11 in the paranoia about the Anthrax virus against Bayer. But it appears that what is right for the US, is not right for the rest of the world, according to your warped ideas.

I'm tired to listen to the same BS, over and over.

Yes, Thailand has the right, under WTO provisions, to by pass IP rights.

However, you have to understand that the WTO provisions is related to "health national emergency".

Now, the discussion is :

-yes HIV is life threatening. Without good retro virals, patients can die very quickly.

-no a drug like Plavix is not an "health national emergency". This drug helps to "keep platelets from sticking together and forming clots, which can help protect against a future heart attack or stroke."

In other words : fatty thais that all their life are eating sugar in their food, who drink alcohool, make no sport, etc... could suffer from heart conditions. And would need to take Plavix in order to reduce the risk.

Where is the health national emergency in this ? A part to continue to enjoy eating greasy food ?

As for your last comment, allow me to think that only a "warped" mind could put on the same level anthrax and artery diseases !

Obviously, you can.

We can debate the individual drugs, and i have already stated that i personally believe that heart drugs should not be declared a national emergency. But the next generation of AIDS drugs should be.

Anthrax was not an issue, it was pure paranoia after a few hoax letters. There was no Anthrax epidemic by terrorist attacks.

Point is - Thailand has the right under WTO - and therefore they hardly can be criminals. Change the law, and then they might be. But so will be the US whenever there is another case of national paranoia that will be a reason to threaten to violate the patent rights.

But whatever you feel about the issue - Thailand is within its rights according to international law.

guess what. abbott has the right to NOT sell their drugs to thailand. and I hope they don't.

if some person came into your house and helped himself to your belongings, how would you feel about that? supposing they told you to give them your money. and you didn't want to. what does that make that person? the answer - a thief.

that is what thailand is doing.

I think abbott should just stop selling their drugs in thailand. period.

there is no use arguing the issue with thailand. they have their mind made up. and that's it. so, to abbott - close up shop here, and just stop selling your drugs to them. end of story.

[nick2k]

you want to talk about self interest. ok. then, tell me why thailand devalued their currency back in 1997. why didn't they stick with the 25 to 1 rate that they had so long? I'll tell you why.. they want to stick it to everybody they owe money to. that's is what every country does in the world when they don't want to pay back their debts.

Rubbish.

Thailand did not devalue the Baht because the wanted to - Thailand did everything in order not having to have the Baht devalued, including emptying all foreign currency reserves trying to keep the Baht stuck to the Dollar and up at 25. And no, the did not "stick" it to everybody they owed money to - Thai companies borrowed in foreign currency and had to repay in foreign currency which was suddenly double as expensive, and that destroyed many Thai companies.

the patent system for all it's imperfections was still a major component in the improvement of mankind in the last century.

what thailand is doing by stealing the drugs - now, that's robbery.

Rubbish.

Integral part of the international patent laws, and major component, is that countries in case of national emergencies have the right to circumvent patent rights of important medicine under WTO regulations. Thailand by law is not stealing the drugs - they are clearly within their legal right.

The US for example has used the same law after 9/11 in the paranoia about the Anthrax virus against Bayer. But it appears that what is right for the US, is not right for the rest of the world, according to your warped ideas.

If all you views are based on such embarrassingly faulty data, please do us a favor and don't bother us with any more ultra-nationalist diatribes here. What do you anyhow do on a internet forum dealing with Thailand. Isn't there some America first forum around somewhere in some trailer park?

it's funny. but do you know what? I think you are the one with the warped mind.

so, I guess you don't like my point of view. what do you suggest we do? screen it out like thailand is doing with youtube?

I mean, that is what you are suggesting, right?

as for my "faulty data", it's true. most countries in the world changed or devalued their currencies in the last century for one reason or another. when you change your currency, you are effectively closing down all debts.

think about it. ..or is that too much to ask you to do?

as for my nationalistic attitude, I don't see any problem with that. I mean, that is what everybody is doing, right?

KHON THAI RIPLAO!!!!

[ColPyat]

it's funny. but do you know what? I think you are the one with the warped mind.

so, I guess you don't like my point of view. what do you suggest we do? screen it out like thailand is doing with youtube?

I mean, that is what you are suggesting, right?

as for my "faulty data", it's true. most countries in the world changed or devalued their currencies in the last century for one reason or another. when you change your currency, you are effectively closing down all debts.

think about it. ..or is that too much to ask you to do?

as for my nationalistic attitude, I don't see any problem with that. I mean, that is what everybody is doing, right?

KHON THAI RIPLAO!!!!

No, i am European, not Thai.

And no, not "everybody" is "doing" Nationalism. Some are "doing" that, in Europe we usually call them "Neo-Nazis". Attitudes such as yours are the reason that Europe is nowadays more anti-American than it has ever been before in history, especially because your attitude is policy of most members of the present US government.

I really feel sorry for my many American friends who are because of this attitude lumped into this mess.

I don't need to think about why Thailand during the '97 crises was forced to devalue, or "float", the Baht after desperately trying to keep it pegged to the dollar, after massive amount of NPL's and following attacks on the currency. Because i was there, and i am not yet that old that my memory is impaired.

And no, it was not an evil decision so they don't need to pay their debts, it was a desperate decision they have tried to avoid in order that they can still pay their foreign debts without going broke, and having to have the IMF bail them out, which then happened.

And maybe you should think about that Thailand is within their legal rights under WTO agreements when declaring a national emergency and circumventing the patent laws. Go and try to influence your government to withdraw from the WTO, but stop you diatribes here please. They are absolutely misplaced.

How often shall i repeat this - Thailand is within the law, Thailand is within the law, Thailand is within the law...got it?!

[Pepe']

it's funny. but do you know what? I think you are the one with the warped mind.

so, I guess you don't like my point of view. what do you suggest we do? screen it out like thailand is doing with youtube?

I mean, that is what you are suggesting, right?

as for my "faulty data", it's true. most countries in the world changed or devalued their currencies in the last century for one reason or another. when you change your currency, you are effectively closing down all debts.

think about it. ..or is that too much to ask you to do?

as for my nationalistic attitude, I don't see any problem with that. I mean, that is what everybody is doing, right?

KHON THAI RIPLAO!!!!

No, i am European, not Thai.

And no, not "everybody" is "doing" Nationalism. Some are "doing" that, in Europe we usually call them "Neo-Nazis". Attitudes such as yours are the reason that Europe is nowadays more anti-American than it has ever been before in history, especially because your attitude is policy of most members of the present US government.

I really feel sorry for my many American friends who are because of this attitude lumped into this mess.

I don't need to think about why Thailand during the '97 crises was forced to devalue, or "float", the Baht after desperately trying to keep it pegged to the dollar, after massive amount of NPL's and following attacks on the currency. Because i was there, and i am not yet that old that my memory is impaired.

And no, it was not an evil decision so they don't need to pay their debts, it was a desperate decision they have tried to avoid in order that they can still pay their foreign debts without going broke, and having to have the IMF bail them out, which then happened.

And maybe you should think about that Thailand is within their legal rights under WTO agreements when declaring a national emergency and circumventing the patent laws. Go and try to influence your government to withdraw from the WTO, but stop you diatribes here please. They are absolutely misplaced.

How often shall i repeat this - Thailand is within the law, Thailand is within the law, Thailand is within the law...got it?!

---------------------------------

"Got Milk"... :D :D

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Anthrax was not an issue, it was pure paranoia after a few hoax letters.

Hoax letter? People died from those "hoax" letters that did in fact contain militarized anthrax spores.

[ColPyat]

Anthrax was not an issue, it was pure paranoia after a few hoax letters.

Hoax letter? People died from those "hoax" letters that did in fact contain militarized anthrax spores.

Hardly a national emergency though, only a national paranoia. This clause in WTO patent laws was made for medical emergencies on a national scale, and not paranoid states of mind. Maybe the US would have been better served at that time to invoke patent laws on Xanax, if it would not have been produced already by a US company.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

We can debate the individual drugs, and i have already stated that i personally believe that heart drugs should not be declared a national emergency. But the next generation of AIDS drugs should be.

It can be argued that heart disease in some instances is not a lifestyle disease. Ever heard of hypercholesterolemia? Some of it has a genetic component. HIV on the otherhand is largely a lifestyle disease. In the early days of the epidemic is was exclusively a lifestyle disease. Stop injecting IV drugs with used needles, stop having unsafe sex and watch the number of new cases fall.

That said, people need to be treated for these diseases regardless. Thailand claims the drugs will be used exclusively to treat the poor. However, as reported yesterday in the Bangkok Post Thailand will issue the drugs to gold card holders which is anyone enrolled in the universal healthcare program. This includes wealthy and middle class Thais enrolled in he program not just the poor. Thailand should have consulted with the companies before breaking the patents. Once done if no accomodation could be found then break the patents and offer a reasonable instead of an insulting royalty. Instead Thailand says we have no respect for you or your country. We will take anything we want and you can't stop us. Were going to spit in your face ha ha ha. Not a good way to win friends and influence people.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Hardly a national emergency though, only a national paranoia.

The World Trade Center has just been attacked by Islamic extermists who vowed to continue the attacks. Militarized anthrax is not that difficult to produce compared with other WMDs. They didn't know where th anthrax was coming from nor what quantity was in the US. There had already been studies prior to that attack of a possible attack using anthrax. ABC news had a special one night on a theoretical attack on the subway of a major population center. Of course I suppose you find the World Trade Center attack and any other attack on Americans justified given your obvious hatred of the US and its citizens.

[ColPyat]

We can debate the individual drugs, and i have already stated that i personally believe that heart drugs should not be declared a national emergency. But the next generation of AIDS drugs should be.

It can be argued that heart disease in some instances is not a lifestyle disease. Ever heard of hypercholesterolemia? Some of it has a genetic component. HIV on the otherhand is largely a lifestyle disease. Stop injecting IV drugs with used needles and stop having unsafe sex and watch the number of new cases fall.

People need to be treated for these diseases regardless. Thailand claims the drugs will be used exclusively to treat the poor. However, as reported yesterday in the Bangkok Post Thailand will issue the drugs to gold card holders which is anyone enrolled in the universal healthcare program. This includes wealthy and middle class Thais enrolled in he program not just the poor. Thailand should have consulted with the companies before breaking the patents. Once done if no accomodation could be found then break the patents and offer a reasonable instead of an insulting royalty. Instead Thailand says we have no respect for you or your country. We will take anything we want and you can't stop us. Were going to spit in your face ha ha ha. Not a good way to win friends and influence people.

This is a post i somewhat agree with in parts. Yes, the whole issue has been handled not the most diplomatic way. Nevertheless, Pharma companies are not exactly known for their altruism either. Given the often unfair tactics they have used in the past, such as in the GPO-Vir saga, they should not complain when governments use the same tactics against them.

As to AIDS being a "lifestyle" disease, i think you should tell that to the Hemophiliacs, at least the few that are still alive. Or to the many men and women who got infected by their partners. Nevertheless, lifestyle disease or not, AIDS, if untreated, is a national emergency on huge scale in Thailand, and in many other under-developed and developing countries. In Thailand there are an estimated 1 mio. infected who would die within a few years if not getting access to modern and next generation anti-retrovirals. Apart from the human tragedy this would be a massive economical loss.

I always have difficulties how Multi-nationals can still be identified with "country" anyhow. While we normal people are still stuck with outdated concepts of country, the same people, institutions and corporations who try to keep us in that mindset have themselves overcome this concept in their business activities a long time ago. This is called "globalisation". Simple people such as some posters here will feel slighted in their national pride forget that the corporations whose profits are slightly diminished by such actions have their pride and ethics only in the dividends they pay their shareholders.

Just because some company might manufacture a list of different medicine does not mean that they are Albert Schweitzer.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Anthrax Attack:

Since September 18, due to the anthrax attack, five people have died from anthrax: 94-year-old Ottilie Lundgren of Connecticut, 61-year-old Kathy Nguyen of New York, two Washington postal workers and a newspaper photo editor in Florida.

Six others survived the severe inhaled form of anthrax, and at least seven others contracted the milder skin form.

Lundgren and Nguyen cases have been singled out because they are the only mystery deaths - they're not directly linked to anthrax-laden letters mailed to the media and Capitol Hill. Signs point toward cross-contaminated mail as the source of their infections, investigators say, but there’s no direct proof, and no spores have been found in either of their homes.

This outcome doesn't look too much... but it really has been catastrophic!... the anthrax affair has disrupted Capitol Hill, some of the TV, radio and newspaper media, the Supreme Court, the Federal Reserve... and most specially the Postal Service, with thousands of people being tested in long lines, and thousands taking preventive antibiotics... with a huge amount of money and time spent to clean and radiate the places where anthrax may be present... and the fear of millions to even open their mail...

The money numbers are staggering: Kennedy has called for spending $10 billion, claiming that “A larger attack could be a disaster for whole communities in America. We’ve had the clearest possible warning and we cannot afford to ignore it,”

Senators Frist and Kennedy unveiled a bill on Nov.15 calling for $3.2 billion to combat just bioterrorism and expressed optimism President Bush would go along with it. Sen. Bill Frist is the Senate’s only doctor and a key Republican player on health care issues, and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy chairs the Senate health committee

An estimated 16,000 postal service workers are taking antibiotics as a preventive measure.

Complete artilce here:

http://biblia.com/terrorism/anthrax.htm

Hardly unwarranted paranoia. The spores got lose in several mail facilities including one in Washington. There was no way to determine th extent of the attack. A prudent man would prepare for the worst which the US did.

[ColPyat]

Of course I suppose you find the World Trade Center attack and any other attack on Americans justified given your obvious hatred of the US and its citizens.

So typical. Everybody who has a problem with US foreign policy must automatically "hate its citizens" - how boring. Such false conclusions are typical indication of paranoia. Thanks for making my point.