Thailand Blacklisted From Receiving New AIDS Drugs

[sbk]

Lets get back on topic, unless you are discussing Thailand copying anthrax drugs as well??

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

HIV on the otherhand is largely a lifestyle disease.

I used largely for a very specific reason. Never said hemophyliacs or sex partners were lifestyle related and in fact have in the past and continue to use those groups as well as neonatal transmission as examples of innocent victims. Regardless, all should be treated. I never argued the drug companies were Albert Schweitzer. They aren't. They exist to make a profit. However, when a country like Thailand says we are going to steal your patent without consulting the company and then insults the company further by telling them they will only get 0.5% royalty it makes me angry. Then Thailand claims the drugs will only be used to treat the poor when in fact they will be avaiable to anyone enrolled in the universal healthcare program. They knew this and yet tried to justify the theft. All of those actions are insulting to the companies and to the US and they were intended to be so. Had Thailand made prior consultations and then offered reasonable compensation I would be supporting the Thai position. They did not and they do not intend to do so. As a whole, I admire the current health minister for his dedication in treating the poor. However, I do not condone or support his action in this instance. He could mitigate his actions by increasing the royalty to a more reasonable level and by making certain Thais that can afford to pay don't get a free ride through the universal healthcare program but he likely won't.

Edited May 6, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[whimsy]

Here is a quote from and a link to an interesting article on this topic published in the Chicago Sun-Times yesterday.

The truth is that Thailand's decision has nothing to do with lowering costs or compassion. Instead, the Thai government appears to be violating patents for its own profit. And in doing so, the nation is putting Thai citizens at great risk.

(snip) ......

Clearly, this isn't about improving access to medicines for the Thai people. It's about establishing Thailand's state-owned drug manufacturer -- the Government Pharmaceutical Organization -- as a dominant regional manufacturer of copycat drugs. Only the GPO can sell copycat drugs to the Thai government, which excludes private manufacturers from receiving government contracts.

This leaves the GPO to reap all the cushy rewards, which flow right back to the government and provide further opportunities for the nation's politically connected to enrich themselves.

[ColPyat]

HIV on the otherhand is largely a lifestyle disease.

I used largely for a very specific reason. Never said hemophyliacs or sex partners were lifestyle related and in fact have in the past and continue to use those groups as well as neonatal transmission as examples of innocent victims. Regardless, all should be treated. I never argued the drug companies were Albert Schweitzer. They aren't. They exist to make a profit. However, when a country like Thailand says we are going to steal your patent without consulting the company and then insults the company further by telling them they will only get 0.5% royalty I makes me angry. Then Thailand claims the drugs will only be used to treat the poor when in fact they will be avaiable to anyone enrolled in the universal healthcare program. They knew this and yet tried to justify the theft. All of those actions are insulting the companies and to the US and they were intended to be so. Had Thailand made prior consultations and then offered reaasonable compensation I would be supporting the Thai position. They did not and they do not intend to do so. As a whole, I admire the current health minister for his dedication in treating the poor. However, I do not condone or support his action in this instance. He could mitigate his actions by increasing the royalty to a more reasonable level and by making certain Thais that can afford to pay don't get a free ride through the universal healthcare program but he likely won't.

That is again a post i somewhat agree with in parts. Gets repetitive.

Yes, i agree with that this has been handled not the most diplomatic way. Nevertheless, Pharma companies have a long history of not being diplomatic either - it more like a matter of pot calling kettle black.

I wish you would not use the term "stealing", this a bit emotive, and does not take into account that Thailand has used WTO laws, and therefore did not steal.

In reality though, the rich in Thailand who are infected will hardly use the national heath scheme medicine, they will use top hospitals, top doctors, and the best possible medicine.

I don't really see how the US was insulted, but lets not get back into pre WW1 nationalism - i doubt we will ever agree on this. But as a statement - this was less an insult than a symbol of encouragement for many countries that could on many occasions have used these WTO laws, considered so, but did not due to intense lobbying of pharma companies who due to their vast influence have the power to use even most western governments (and not just the US government) to put undue pressure on developing and under-developed countries.

In the end, the solution will have to be a compromise between governments of affected countries and the pharma companies. But pressure has to be applied before that comes. You can't really blame countries such as Thailand in that issue - it's not that the poor little pharma companies are innocent and powerless victims in this disgusting game.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

I wish you would not use the term "stealing", this a bit emotive, and does not take into account that Thailand has used WTO laws, and therefore did not steal.

If you claim to be appropriating the drugs for the poor but in fact offer them to all who enroll in the national healthcare program regardless of income, that is at best fraud which is a form of theft.

[ColPyat]

I wish you would not use the term "stealing", this a bit emotive, and does not take into account that Thailand has used WTO laws, and therefore did not steal.

If you claim to be appropriating the drugs for the poor but in fact offer them to all who enroll in the national healthcare program regardless of income, that is at best fraud which is a form of theft.

Jeezas, do you actually live in Thailand?

How many rich do you know that use the national health scheme? The only people i know who use the national health scheme are the ones who have no other choice. It's not that great - long waiting times, not exactly the best quality medicine and care, but better than nothing.

[Mid]

it's not that the poor little pharma companies are innocent and powerless victims in this disgusting game.

word

[nick2k]

I wish you would not use the term "stealing", this a bit emotive, and does not take into account that Thailand has used WTO laws, and therefore did not steal.

If you claim to be appropriating the drugs for the poor but in fact offer them to all who enroll in the national healthcare program regardless of income, that is at best fraud which is a form of theft.

Jeezas, do you actually live in Thailand?

How many rich do you know that use the national health scheme? The only people i know who use the national health scheme are the ones who have no other choice. It's not that great - long waiting times, not exactly the best quality medicine and care, but better than nothing.

keep the rhetoric coming, guys. I want the corporations to know just how you all feel. personally, I hope they just stop supplying drugs here. thailand can just get them from someplace else. or make them themselves. no point to continuing the argument.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

I wish you would not use the term "stealing", this a bit emotive, and does not take into account that Thailand has used WTO laws, and therefore did not steal.

If you claim to be appropriating the drugs for the poor but in fact offer them to all who enroll in the national healthcare program regardless of income, that is at best fraud which is a form of theft.

Jeezas, do you actually live in Thailand?

How many rich do you know that use the national health scheme? The only people i know who use the national health scheme are the ones who have no other choice. It's not that great - long waiting times, not exactly the best quality medicine and care, but better than nothing.

I didn't just say rich. Middle class thais use rthe system and in fact I knew several who did. They considered it an entitlement. One stopped after I pointed out that using the system took resources away from the poor who could not afford healthcare. Do you actually live among Thais or do you stay in western enclaves and only meet with wealthy factory owners? Thais like most other people are always looking for something free. Given the level of understanding of healthcare and in fact medicine in general among the middle class Thais I know the government system appears just fine. If the government qualifies the recipients of compulsory licensed medications on the basis of income provides reasonable royalties there would be nore support for their position. In fact they won't. I will not be surprised to see the drugs manufactured under compulsory license working their way into the healthcare program for working Thais (what they call social security) and some privarte hospital as well. Who will stop them? Who will be auditing the distribution and use of the compusory licensed drugs? A little tea money in Thailand goes a long way.

[Galong]

it's not that the poor little pharma companies are innocent and powerless victims in this disgusting game.

word

ROFLMAO, I love it when folks use the word 'word' in a most appropriate manner...

After reading the posts in this thread I have changed my mind about the whole matter. Thanks to all who have opened my eyes to the facts of the matter. This is stealing plain and simple. Yes, it sucks that poor people aren't being taken care of, but it's the Thai government that isn't doing their job, not the American businesses who are screwing them. There is enough $$ here to help the poor. That just doesn't seem to be a high priority.

Snip from the excellent article that whimsy provided:

"Earlier this month, Abbott Laboratories announced that it would sell to Thailand and dozens of other low-income nations, Kaletra for $1,000 per patient annually. That's about 55 percent less than Kaletra's current cost and cheaper than every copy of the medicine available. In March, Merck similarly offered to drastically reduce the price of Efavirenz."

Thailand is NOT a poor country as many posters have pointed out. What they often are is thieves who openly steal everything that they can... see Panthip Plaza. I agree that the pharma companies are making a killing, but as one poster pointed out, some of this profit goes back into R &D. What's the motivation for doing more R&D if their hard work ends up being ripped off by countries that can afford to buy it, but choose not to.

Keep ripping off the US and Thailand could become the next Cuba.

[ColPyat]

keep the rhetoric coming, guys. I want the corporations to know just how you all feel. personally, I hope they just stop supplying drugs here. thailand can just get them from someplace else. or make them themselves. no point to continuing the argument.

I am rather sure that they know that already. It may be news to you, but their managers and CEOs do read the papers and watch TV.

[ColPyat]

Do you actually live among Thais or do you stay in western enclaves and only meet with wealthy factory owners?

Yes, i actually do live among Thais.

And i have also a somewhat personal interest in this issue as several members of my wife's family rely on drugs provided for free by the government. I am already stretched out enough by providing school fees so that some nephews and nieces can get an education, and cannot possibly pay for AIDS treatment.

[ColPyat]

it's not that the poor little pharma companies are innocent and powerless victims in this disgusting game.

word

ROFLMAO, I love it when folks use the word 'word' in a most appropriate manner...

After reading the posts in this thread I have changed my mind about the whole matter. Thanks to all who have opened my eyes to the facts of the matter. This is stealing plain and simple. Yes, it sucks that poor people aren't being taken care of, but it's the Thai government that isn't doing their job, not the American businesses who are screwing them. There is enough $$ here to help the poor. That just doesn't seem to be a high priority.

Snip from the excellent article that whimsy provided:

"Earlier this month, Abbott Laboratories announced that it would sell to Thailand and dozens of other low-income nations, Kaletra for $1,000 per patient annually. That's about 55 percent less than Kaletra's current cost and cheaper than every copy of the medicine available. In March, Merck similarly offered to drastically reduce the price of Efavirenz."

Thailand is NOT a poor country as many posters have pointed out. What they often are is thieves who openly steal everything that they can... see Panthip Plaza. I agree that the pharma companies are making a killing, but as one poster pointed out, some of this profit goes back into R &D. What's the motivation for doing more R&D if their hard work ends up being ripped off by countries that can afford to buy it, but choose not to.

Keep ripping off the US and Thailand could become the next Cuba.

This is a rather disgusting game, and both sides use huge spins.

One thing you should consider is that the worst case scenario for Pharma companies is that one country successfully enacts this WTO clause as it would mean a precedent. In the past also Brazil has threatened this, and almost overnight the company went down with their prize.

Matter of fact is that there are many countries that do not have the power to even threaten to enact this clause even if they would like to or need to, and are in need of a successful case.

Now if you would come up with the news that the Pharma companies are offering the whole under-developed and developing world a suitable price structure, and help to build up the necessary network that would make it possible that soon every HIV infected, regardless of his/her nationality, can be treated with current state of the art anti-retrovirals, then i would be convinced that such offers are not just a smart PR strategy to minimize their losses.

So far it's just a case of pot calling kettle black, to the disadvantage of the infected.

Edited May 6, 2007 by ColPyat

[chuchok]

Do you actually live among Thais or do you stay in western enclaves and only meet with wealthy factory owners?

Yes, i actually do live among Thais.

And i have also a somewhat personal interest in this issue as several members of my wife's family rely on drugs provided for free by the government. I am already stretched out enough by providing school fees so that some nephews and nieces can get an education, and cannot possibly pay for AIDS treatment.

It's obvious that CMA doesn't read many of your post colPyat, otherwise he would not have asked such a daft question.

Again,I wonder what the answer would be if a close member of ones family here desperatly needed drugs to survive,but nobody had the bucks to provide the drugs.I can see it all now.Sorry(wife,daughter,son) but you are going to die because I won't steal drugs from the lilly white pharma companies.Tough titties,see you on the other side,travel well......

[chuchok]

Thailand is NOT a poor country as many posters have pointed out. What they often are is thieves who openly steal everything that they can... see Panthip Plaza. I agree that the pharma companies are making a killing, but as one poster pointed out, some of this profit goes back into R &D. What's the motivation for doing more R&D if their hard work ends up being ripped off by countries that can afford to buy it, but choose not to.

There are probably a few million rice farmers that might just disagree with you slightly here....

Mind you,it probably comes down to your definition of poor really.If you think that living in a septic tack constitutes poverty,then all of Thailand are wealthy little buggers ....

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

MoF:sees current account surplus at US$10 bn

The Finance Ministry said Friday it expects the 2007 current account surplus to widen to US$10 billion from US$3.2 billion in 2006.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30032866

That totals over 345 billion baht.

From the MCOT:

"Thailand saves Bt1.6bn with compulsory licencing

BANGKOK, May 5 (TNA) - The Thai government is able to save more than Bt1.6 billion annually on three medications used to treat patients suffering from HIV/AIDS and heart diseases which are among the top killers in this country under the compulsory licencing (CL) provisions of international trade agreements, a senior official said."

AND:

"Compulsory licencing is allowed under World Trade Organisation rules so that countries can temporarily suspend patent protections on medicines to safeguard public health in national emergencies or justified non-commercial cases. Patent-holders can receive some royalties."

http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=29251

"Thailand saves Bt1.6bn with compulsory licencing"

Translation: See how clever we are, we can take things from foreign companies and we don't have to pay. That means rich Thai busineses won't need to pay tax. We jsut take what we need from foreigners. We are very smart.

A new 0.5% tax on trade would provide at least 1.7 billion baht which is more than enough to cover the cost of the medication. Thailand has the ability to pay but prefers to take the drugs without even providing fair compensation.

Edited May 6, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[larvidchr]

Can I just ask the lawabiding posters, at wich point by your standards will it become stealing when a company sets a price for a product, that only they have, and not buying it means death, at 100% profit 500%, 1000% is there in your minds no limit. who calculate the cost of the very loose term R&D.

Some posters here now say that not only should the price recover the cost of R&D for the product itself, but allso allow for development of future not yet known products, an argument like that is pure rubbish, you could end up paying 100 USd for 1 liter of milk using that argument because that will cover the cost of the development of your next fruit youghurt.

Thailands government is thieves and so is the Thai people as a whole is the argumentation of one poster.

This level of one sided self rightfullness quite frankly makes me bored , so goodbye

regards

[ColPyat]

It's obvious that CMA doesn't read many of your post colPyat, otherwise he would not have asked such a daft question.

Again,I wonder what the answer would be if a close member of ones family here desperatly needed drugs to survive,but nobody had the bucks to provide the drugs.I can see it all now.Sorry(wife,daughter,son) but you are going to die because I won't steal drugs from the lilly white pharma companies.Tough titties,see you on the other side,travel well......

The problem with these debates is always that people tend to forget that behind all the political BS there are individual people who do actually suffer the consequences of these games. But as long as it not people closed to one, it is all OK to justify ones position of profit vs. saved lives.

I don't believe that the Thai government is any good, but i don't really feel any compassion whatsoever towards the pharma companies. Their miserable conduct is well documented, and they are the ones who have a lot of catching up to do.

The real crime here, from my rather idealistic viewpoint, is not comparatively minor issues of theft, but that there are still people dying from AIDS in an era where anti-retrovirals enables HIV infected to live an almost normal live.

The spin put on is simply sickening. We are not dealing here with luxury drugs such as Viagra or the newest get the pimples off the face cream.

Yes, i would very much welcome that this issue would one day be sorted without the usual power games. And there, presently the ball is in the hand of the companies and the rich countries. Any substantial offer of assistance to the rest of the world is still lacking.

But as in almost every such global issue all we get is spin, lies and smokes and mirrors, and the fools who believe the crap those PR departments spread.

end of rant.

[larvidchr]

Thailand is NOT a poor country as many posters have pointed out. What they often are is thieves who openly steal everything that they can... see Panthip Plaza.

You should be ashamed of yourself, posting a remark like that there are 65 million Thais and I am sure they dont all work in Panthip Plaza.

Now really goodbye, just needed to get this one of my chest.

[Prakanong]

Well the consequence is big pharma do not research drugs for the developing world - it will be worse in the end

Say 5 candidate compounds - money for Development for 3 - which one to go for???

When Thai's start to be decent to their own rather than shit on each other is the day I will support the theft of someones elses endevour

Do the4y take the big houses within the compunds because there are homeless in Thailand next?

Hypocritical shits

[Galong]

Thailand is NOT a poor country as many posters have pointed out. What they often are is thieves who openly steal everything that they can... see Panthip Plaza.

You should be ashamed of yourself, posting a remark like that there are 65 million Thais and I am sure they dont all work in Panthip Plaza.

Learn how to read dude. I said "OFTEN ARE", not ALL ARE! Of course there are plenty of honest hard-working Thais. But, there is blatant stealing of American goods... period.

And no, I'm not the least bit ashamed. I just mentioned Panthip, but there are hundreds of other examples. Walk around Phuket or Bangkok any night as see how many DVDs, brand label clothes, watches, etc, etc are being sold ILLEGALLY!

Go to bed and have another dream.

[Prakanong]

I wish you would not use the term "stealing", this a bit emotive, and does not take into account that Thailand has used WTO laws, and therefore did not steal.

If you claim to be appropriating the drugs for the poor but in fact offer them to all who enroll in the national healthcare program regardless of income, that is at best fraud which is a form of theft.

In Thailand as in Singapore you get the rich using the poor people schemes for treatment as they will not pay

[cclub75]

A different voice, amid the concert of sweet and heartbreaking souls who want to save the children and who despise the evil capitalists companies...

Another light put on the greed of the thai authorities.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/37...-REF05B.article

Thailand violates drug patents for its own profit

May 5, 2007

BY PHILIP STEVENS

This week, the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative issued its annual review of the protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights across the world. Twelve countries with particularly egregious policies were placed on the report's Priority Watch List, and for the first time, Thailand was elevated to that classification.

This dishonor was expected. Over the last few months, the nation's military-appointed government has issued several ''compulsory licenses'' on patented medicines.

Citing a World Trade Organization rule that permits a country to breach patents during a ''national emergency,'' the Thai government has granted itself the right to produce copies of Kaletra and Efavirenz, two powerful HIV/AIDS antiretrovirals, and Plavix, the popular heart-disease drug. The government has claimed, with much praise from a broad coalition of health activists and nongovernmental organizations, that it would be unable to meet its commitment to universal health care without compulsory licensing.

The truth is that Thailand's decision has nothing to do with lowering costs or compassion. Instead, the Thai government appears to be violating patents for its own profit. And in doing so, the nation is putting Thai citizens at great risk.

Consider: Earlier this month, Abbott Laboratories announced that it would sell to Thailand and dozens of other low-income nations, Kaletra for $1,000 per patient annually. That's about 55 percent less than Kaletra's current cost and cheaper than every copy of the medicine available. In March, Merck similarly offered to drastically reduce the price of Efavirenz.

Yet Thailand has asserted that it will maintain compulsory licenses for both medicines.

Or look at the Global Fund, which recently announced that it would foot Thailand's entire bill for Efavirenz by purchasing a generic version of the drug from a World Health Organization-approved plant in India.

The Thai government rejected the Global Fund's offer, leaving Thai taxpayers to foot the bill for the drug's manufacture.

Clearly, this isn't about improving access to medicines for the Thai people. It's about establishing Thailand's state-owned drug manufacturer -- the Government Pharmaceutical Organization -- as a dominant regional manufacturer of copycat drugs. Only the GPO can sell copycat drugs to the Thai government, which excludes private manufacturers from receiving government contracts.

This leaves the GPO to reap all the cushy rewards, which flow right back to the government and provide further opportunities for the nation's politically connected to enrich themselves.

In 2005, the GPO made a profit of around $35.5 million and reinvested only about 2 percent of that sum into research and development. As one would expect, this money lines the pockets of Thailand's ruling class.

Further, when it comes to producing drugs, the GPO has a terrifying track record. In 2002, the Global Fund awarded Thailand $133 million to test and manufacture its locally produced HIV/AIDS medication, GPO-Vir.

Last August, however, the Global Fund was forced to withdraw its funding because the GPO's manufacturing facilities did not meet international standards and the GPO's drug had yet to gain WHO approval.

But it was too little too late. In July 2005, it emerged that GPO-Vir had caused a rise in drug-resistant AIDS cases because of its poor quality. Despite this track record, Thailand continues to administer GPO-Vir to its HIV/AIDS patients -- which, ironically, is making the virus even more deadly.

Yet instead of denouncing the Thai government's dangerous and self-interested policies, activist groups have urged it to go further and faster. Even worse, many U.S. lawmakers have piled on. Earlier this year, 22 members of Congress signed a letter to the U.S. Trade Representative expressing their support for Thailand's use of compulsory licenses.

The public-health impact, as the HIV/AIDS example suggests, will likely prove devastating.

By upgrading Thailand to the Priority Watch List, the U.S. Trade Representative has sternly condemned the Thai government's patent violations. U.S. policymakers should take this opportunity to trumpet the trade representative's report and denounce Thailand's behavior.

Philip Stevens is health program director at the International Policy Network, a London-based charity.

[Prakanong]

WHO approved plant in India - what a joker

I work with a women who worked directly with WHO approved plants in India - do you know the rejection rate for vaccines - they were shit

Just like Thailands own producers of generics - shit products

They will reap what they sow when these half effective products implant themselves and resistance set in - its a story well known in the pharma comunity

[Prakanong]

"In 2005, the GPO made a profit of around $35.5 million and reinvested only about 2 percent of that sum into research and development. As one would expect, this money lines the pockets of Thailand's ruling class."

Life is normal in Thailand - follow the money as usual

The elite in Thailand get rich while the poor live in shit

[Mid]

They will reap what they sow when these half effective products implant themselves and resistance set in - its a story well known in the pharma comunity

this is the boogie man in all of this for sure .................................

[larvidchr]

Hypocritical shits

[larvidchr]

- shit products

[larvidchr]

"

while the poor live in shit

[stumonster]

Brazil bypasses patent on Merck AIDS drug

04 May 2007 21:01:33 GMT

Source: Reuters

Alert Me | Printable view | Email this article | RSS XML [-]Text [+]

(Adds comment from US Trade Representative's office)

By Ricardo Amaral

BRASILIA, May 4 (Reuters) - President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva on Friday authorized Brazil to break the patent on an AIDS drug made by Merck & Co. Inc. <MRK.N> and import a generic version from India instead.

It was the first time Brazil bypassed a patent to acquire cheaper drugs for its AIDS prevention program, a step recently taken by Thailand. Other countries, including Canada and Italy, have also used a clause in World Trade Organization rules to flout drug patents in the name of public health.

Talks over the price of Merck's drug, Efavirenz, broke off on Thursday when the health ministry rejected the New Jersey-based company's offer to cut its $1.59 per pill price by 30 percent. Brazil wanted to pay what Merck charges Thailand, or $0.65 per pill.

"The compulsory licensing of Efavirenz is a legitimate and necessary measure to guarantee that all patients have access to the drug," Lula's office said in a statement.

Representatives of some 200,000 AIDS patients who receive state-sponsored antiretroviral drugs applauded at a ceremony in Brazil's presidential palace, but drugmakers reacted angrily.

Merck said it was "profoundly disappointed," calling the decision a misappropriation of intellectual property that would stifle research.

AIDS advocates hailed the decision.

"This is certainly an important advance in terms of widening access. We are very happy that Brazil is moving in the right direction," said Michel Lotrowska, who heads AIDS treatment efforts in Brazil for Medecins Sans Frontieres, a humanitarian group.

Full story here

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N04351721.htm