Thailand Blacklisted From Receiving New AIDS Drugs

[TokyoT]

Also interesting that there is little to no talk about the fact that aids is a lifestyle disease and that if more baht were pumped into aids education less baht would have to be spent on the Western controlled ultra expensive drugs. Seems that Thailand might be better served spending the money on the aids education side where they have more control?

This always make me laugh. What you really mean is that AIDS is, by and large, a sexually transmitted disease. You then go on to imply that 'education' (ie less shagging) would lessen the spread of AIDS. Your premise is true. What it ignores is that the sole biological reason for the existence of sentient life is to propagate itself and thus less shagging is not a realistic option.

By lifestyle I did not mean to infer that it is only/mainly a sexually transmitted disease, there are other lifestyle related methods of contracting AIDS - such as thru dirty needles and intravenous drug use. And if you cannot see that education can greatly impact these areas of potential contact than I can only assume that you feel attempting to educate people about safe sex, and the importance of proper hygiene (clean needles) is futile. We should just all go about shagging whoever we please without regard to the consequences – because it is boilogically natural? It is not about less shagging it is about having the necessary information to make a reasonable decision such as using a condom or a clean needle.

There are of course those that do contract the disease that are not directly lifestyle related – mainly babies, and in the early days those that ended up with the disease thru blood transfusions. Then with a bit of education we have been able to practically eliminate the blood transfusion cases – turns out it is a good idea to test our blood supply. Education has taught us that c-sections can actually reduce the chances of transfer of the disease to infants. Actually thru the combination of medication and c-section delivery the chances of passing the disease on to the child can greatly be reduced. And here’s silly me thinking that education could get us somewhere.

Then again is using education and Thailand in the same sentence something along the lines of a double negative? - They kind of cancel each other out. Lets just continue to keep the poor masses ignorant/ uniformed/ uneducated so the top percentile can continue to live the high life off their toil.

[Plus]

I bet Thailand did not think it would come under this sort of scrutiny - corruption hates sunlight a bit like Dracula!!!!

It's not scrutiny, it's PR campaign paid by drug companies who stand to lose some money over CL and Thaimyth website is the least credible source of information.

If Thailand cares about its patients then buy the drugs through the Clinton Foundation from the Indian companies who can make better, cheaper drugs unlike the corrupt and incompetent GPO.

BUT this is exactly what Thailand was going to do - buy the drugs from Indians.

I don't know where this idea that GPO is corrupt and incompetent came from. Any substance to this claim?

[A_Traveller]

I bet Thailand did not think it would come under this sort of scrutiny - corruption hates sunlight a bit like Dracula!!!!

It's not scrutiny, it's PR campaign paid by drug companies who stand to lose some money over CL and Thaimyth website is the least credible source of information.

If Thailand cares about its patients then buy the drugs through the Clinton Foundation from the Indian companies who can make better, cheaper drugs unlike the corrupt and incompetent GPO.

BUT this is exactly what Thailand was going to do - buy the drugs from Indians.

I don't know where this idea that GPO is corrupt and incompetent came from. Any substance to this claim?

The origins of these claims are questionable, AFAIK much of this goes back to an op-ed piece in the WSJ which highlighted that GPO has not been certified by the WHO and that drug resistance was high 'because of faulty GPO copies'. The reality of that was that the statistics to support this come from analysis specifically targeting those who have a resistance to drug therapies, in other words the very group that would score highly. The op-ed was penned by Roger_Bate

There's no claim made there about corruption within GPO however another piece highlights work being undertaken within GOP on combination treatments which could lead to patent issues, mostly outside Thailand {though some within} if GPO decided to export the triple therapy.

A worthwhile site and link is below. An issue within this is that most available information comes with spin for free.

Regards

Link

Thailand & IP

/edit link wrangling //

Edited May 16, 2007 by A_Traveller

[Prakanong]

I bet Thailand did not think it would come under this sort of scrutiny - corruption hates sunlight a bit like Dracula!!!!

It's not scrutiny, it's PR campaign paid by drug companies who stand to lose some money over CL and Thaimyth website is the least credible source of information.

If Thailand cares about its patients then buy the drugs through the Clinton Foundation from the Indian companies who can make better, cheaper drugs unlike the corrupt and incompetent GPO.

BUT this is exactly what Thailand was going to do - buy the drugs from Indians.

I don't know where this idea that GPO is corrupt and incompetent came from. Any substance to this claim?

PR campaign - white paper - each stating their position!

Let the scrutiny go on - on both sides - the Thai's hate it more than anyone though and you can watch them squirm.

Where does Thailand state it was going to but generics from Indians - till the Clinton Foundation came along?

GPO incompetent - read the articles on the Govt Auditors report and look at the drugs the GPO makes - crap

Remember the medical equipment scandal do you - it was in the papers a lot I recall

"“A recent report by the Office of the Auditor General stating that the Government Pharmaceutical Organisation (GPO) sold medical supplies to state agencies at inflated prices, has shown that the state drug-maker has not learned any lessons since the Public Health Ministry medical-procurement scandal in 1998 in which it was also implicated.”

(Editorial, “The GPO Is Up To Its Old Tricks,” The [Thailand] Nation, 7/3/02)"

I know you would say black was white if it meant sticking up for the Thai position so its useless trying to convince you - nuff said.

Edited May 16, 2007 by Prakanong

[Prakanong]

I think most right thinking people would not object to the CL of the HIV/AIDS drugs. These are now the 2nd level drugs as the 1st level have been made generically for a while.

Thailand should have negotiated first - even if it did not get the price as low as it wished it would have had that high ground to say we tried.

It must have known the Clinton Foundation was going to get its deal - if not why not - it should have piggybacked there sooner

The heart drugs are another case in my view though and is taking it too far - not everyones view I accept. It is not a communicable disease nor is it a epidemic or endemic.

They are now going after other therapy area's namely cancer drugs. When will they stop?

Is it Thailands right to take every drug on the market for all therapy area's and issue CL's?

Belly up to the bar Thailand and pay your way - you kkeep bragging how well you are doing.

You really think stealing IP in one business area will not affect investment and the general long term econimic health of the country and its citizens?

[TokyoT]

And it's only the begining...

It looks like they want to... continue. With other drugs !

Cancer next priority in pharma war

Minister unveils newdrug licensing plan

Ah yes and the brain trust rolls on…. We will now add cancer drugs to the list…. Then which drug(s) is/are next?

The yahoos in charge have done what they can to keep things as murky as possible thus tanking the general economy. Now they want to see how many drug companies they can run off. This keeps up and all the talk about CL will dry up because none of the drug companies will do business in Thailand.

In the words of Dirk van Eeden (Abbott) “ The Thai government said they will not buy it, so why is there a need for us to register it?”

Down with the nasty capitalist all they ever did was provide the means for the drug to be available in the first place - greedy self serving pigs.

[Mid]

Down with the nasty capitalist all they ever did was provide the means for the drug to be available in the first place - greedy self serving pigs.

BS they did ......................................

[TokyoT]

Down with the nasty capitalist all they ever did was provide the means for the drug to be available in the first place - greedy self serving pigs.

BS they did ......................................

Yea they had nothing to do with it at all and that is why they got a patent?

All those eastern block countries were literally churning out the top innovations in drugs before the wall came down – a real shame that taking down the wall business. We would have access to much better drugs if that would have never taken place. Down with the capitalist pig.

Late breaking news from GPO website – They have now invented “GPO Curmin Cream” an innovative skin care cream to moisturize and protect your skin from signs of premature aging….. Won’t the poor people of Thailand be thrilled to hear about that development?

http://inter.gpo.or.th/Default.aspx?PageCo...=4&tabid=28

Also from WHO – Total expenditure on health as a % of GDP for Thailand was a whopping 3.5%. Ranking them right up next to the DPRK who we all know cares more about their poor people than most of those capitalist pig type countries. Yea, paying the full price for these medicines would break the Thailands piggy bank.

It is the year of the pig isn’t it?

[Prakanong]

"They have now invented “GPO Curmin Cream” an innovative skin care cream to moisturize and protect your skin from signs of premature aging"

I wonder where their clinical trial results are posted for this ;-)))

Oops I just saw a pig go past the 30th floor!

Where are the details of any clinical trials they run and the standards they run them too?

Plenty of new bio-tech production sites are going up and recruiting heavily down here in Singapore now - paying real money not thai state wages - wonder how many GPO apply anf if they do get in? ;-)

I see the GPO have a R$D Centre since 1992 - just what have they developed?

The fact is many pharma realise they can not keep all their R&D Centres in N America or Western europe - the search for talent is global

New R&D centres are opening up in the region and a lot of money is invested - Singapore, China, India are in the news all the time.

Is anybody opening these centres or even considering Thailand? - pig just went past the window again.

Thai's will get employed in these centres oversea's but there is just not the talent pool in Thailand to attract a world class centre to be built there

Edited May 16, 2007 by Prakanong

[Plus]

Other sources, including "white paper", state Health expenditures at 9.5%.

10 year old medical scandal as a proof of GPO corruption? It's not any more corrupt than any Thai government organisation. If you can find any evidence of corruption in Compulsory Licensing, let's hear about it.

I'm not qualified to state that GPO drugs are top notch or crap. The often cited case of high drug resistance has been rebutted, what are other accusations of producing substandard medicines?

If it comes down to a choice who to trust - the current Thai Health Minister or that Adelman character who'd say anything for the right price, I made my choice.

Would I trust Abbott? No ######ing way. They are being sued for jacking up prices by 400% to prevent people from buying cheaper medicine from their rivals, remember? One internal e-mail suggested completely withdrawing Norvir pills from the market so that the competitors would have to prescribe it in a liquid form only, and that's the drug they developed on government's money!!!!

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Finally someone who makes sense. I hope the committee can iron out the differences and get Thai-US relations back to normal.

From the Bangkok Post:

US envoy invited to drug patent hearings

Thailand's National Legislative Assembly Foreign Affairs Committee has invited United States ambassador to Thailand Ralph L. Boyce, Jr., and his staff, to its Wednesday meeting to discuss differences of perspective on the issue of compulsory licensing of key drugs.

AND

"He said the committee was also concerned with Public Health Minister Mongkol Na Songkhla's overly aggressive position in reaction to the US response towards the compulsory licensing issue."

http://bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/break...s.php?id=118775

Edited May 16, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[Prakanong]

"If it comes down to a choice who to trust - the current Thai Health Minister or that Adelman character who'd say anything for the right price, I made my choice.

Would I trust Abbott? No ######ing way. They are being sued for jacking up prices by 400% to prevent people from buying cheaper medicine from their rivals, remember? One internal e-mail suggested completely withdrawing Norvir pills from the market so that the competitors would have to prescribe it in a liquid form only, and that's the drug they developed on government's money!!!!"

They are both very unsavoury characters and Abbott is not a company one would look to for CSR.

The fact is Thailand is stealing - HIV/AIDS that is OK in most peoples book but the others???

The GPO is a joke - skin cream - yeah keep making that for the old Khunpuuyings with big hair - really helping the Thai people that mob are

While the rest of the region gets new bio-tech research facilities and manufacturing plants Thailand gets skin cream researchers ;-)

Their best guys may just have to go overseas for the best jobs but they will not regret it.

A tin pot dictatorship with ideas about as big as tin pot dictators usually have - they steal power and now want to steal other items but with the harsh light of scrutiny they squirm like most corrupt third world dictators.

[jdinasia]

Prakanong .... I know you may have missed the point .... but Thailand isn't 'stealing' when it is conforming with the rules

[Prakanong]

Prakanong .... I know you may have missed the point .... but Thailand isn't 'stealing' when it is conforming with the rules

We can play on words all day.

Some tin pot country nationalising a whole industry elsewhere such as Zimbabwe is also playing by the rules but we all know what it is. ;-)

Thailand should just go the whole hog and say it is disbanding the Thai FDA and buying only generic drugs!

It already turns a blind eye or does nothing about many other forms of IP theft as you can see just walking about and they wonder why other countries does not trust it ;-0

Edited May 16, 2007 by Prakanong

[jdinasia]

Prakanong .... I know you may have missed the point .... but Thailand isn't 'stealing' when it is conforming with the rules

We can play on words all day.

Some tin pot country nationalising a whole industry elsewhere such as Zimbabwe is also playing by the rules but we all know what it is. ;-)

You are right ... in the case of Thailand it is called "doing the right thing!"

[highdiver]

"If it comes down to a choice who to trust - the current Thai Health Minister or that Adelman character who'd say anything for the right price, I made my choice.

Would I trust Abbott? No ######ing way. They are being sued for jacking up prices by 400% to prevent people from buying cheaper medicine from their rivals, remember? One internal e-mail suggested completely withdrawing Norvir pills from the market so that the competitors would have to prescribe it in a liquid form only, and that's the drug they developed on government's money!!!!"

They are both very unsavoury characters and Abbott is not a company one would look to for CSR.

The fact is Thailand is stealing - HIV/AIDS that is OK in most peoples book but the others???

The fact is you dont know what your talking about. and have been spamming your thoughts on this and other threads with facts that are a fabrication of your own mind.

Thailand has right under WTO. to declare a drug as CL as it is with in its rights to do it. so they are not stealing. they are infact putting a lot of pressure on Abott to drop the price further as they have done in Brazil and in Africa. and they will get them to put the price down.

The GPO is a joke - skin cream - yeah keep making that for the old Khunpuuyings with big hair - really helping the Thai people that mob are

While the rest of the region gets new bio-tech research facilities and manufacturing plants Thailand gets skin cream researchers ;-)

once again you have no idea about the facts. thailand has a vast reserch and develpoment centres in all fields of science and maybe if you look at he following link you can learn something.

http://www.biotec.or.th/shrinfo/documents/...%20Research.pdf

and then go this site and educate your selfsome more...

http://www.biotec.or.th/biotechnology-en/index.asp

Their best guys may just have to go overseas for the best jobs but they will not regret it.

As to get you back on track about thailand scientific record and achievments in relation to HIV

i think you will find the next Thai scientist very interesting.

Krisana Kraisintu

Kraisintu, a noted Thai pharmacist, is working with the German Medical Aid Organization to develop locally produced, affordable generic drugs for impoverished AIDS patients in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Eritrea, and Tanzania.

Kraisintu's work to broaden the availability of AIDS drugs in southeast Asia earned her the title "AIDS Warrior" from her peers. Through her work, 70,000 AIDS/HIV patients in Thailand and an additional 30,000 patients in Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam were able to gain access to affordable treatment. Kraisintu and her research team have worked on formulation development and bioequivalence studies of HIV/AIDS -related drugs since 1992. Thailand became the first developing country to make these affordable drugs relatively widely available.

Kraisintu received a bachelor's degree in pharmacy from Chiengmai University, Thailand in 1975, a master's in pharmaceutical analysis from Strathclyde University, U.K. in 1978, and a doctorate in pharmaceutical chemistry from Bath University, U.K. in 1981. For the past 22 years, she has worked in the pharmaceutical industry in various roles of quality assurance, manufacturing, research and development, and business development for the discovery, development, and commercialization of chemical and natural pharmaceutical products.

Kraisintu received a Gold Medal at Eureka 50th World Exhibition of Innovation, Research, and New Technology in Brussels in 2001, and a Global Scientific Award in 2004 from the Letten Foundation as recognition of her outstanding scientific contribution in the field of HIV/AIDS.

A tin pot dictatorship with ideas about as big as tin pot dictators usually have - they steal power and now want to steal other items but with the harsh light of scrutiny they squirm like most corrupt third world dictators.

[Prakanong]

Prakanong .... I know you may have missed the point .... but Thailand isn't 'stealing' when it is conforming with the rules

We can play on words all day.

Some tin pot country nationalising a whole industry elsewhere such as Zimbabwe is also playing by the rules but we all know what it is. ;-)

You are right ... in the case of Thailand it is called "doing the right thing!"

Really well thats an opinion of your but others do disagree - time will tell.

But as Thailand has never invented or developed anything of its own they should be pitied and let them have the things they envy - its like playing with bairns

The problem is its bairns who will be attempting to copy the drugs if the GPO does it - its not a LV handbag or copying a CD!

As I said I agree with the 2nd line HIV drugs but their case for heart drugs has no precedent and is flimsy.

At least its taking some focus off all the other things going up shit creek in Thailand at the moment

[Mid]

Yea they had nothing to do with it at all and that is why they got a patent?

maybe not why ,

however obtaining the patent was the only thing your greedy self serving pigs contributed .....................

[Prakanong]

"If it comes down to a choice who to trust - the current Thai Health Minister or that Adelman character who'd say anything for the right price, I made my choice.

Would I trust Abbott? No ######ing way. They are being sued for jacking up prices by 400% to prevent people from buying cheaper medicine from their rivals, remember? One internal e-mail suggested completely withdrawing Norvir pills from the market so that the competitors would have to prescribe it in a liquid form only, and that's the drug they developed on government's money!!!!"

They are both very unsavoury characters and Abbott is not a company one would look to for CSR.

The fact is Thailand is stealing - HIV/AIDS that is OK in most peoples book but the others???

The fact is you dont know what your talking about. and have been spamming your thoughts on this and other threads with facts that are a fabrication of your own mind.

Thailand has right under WTO. to declare a drug as CL as it is with in its rights to do it. so they are not stealing. they are infact putting a lot of pressure on Abott to drop the price further as they have done in Brazil and in Africa. and they will get them to put the price down.

The GPO is a joke - skin cream - yeah keep making that for the old Khunpuuyings with big hair - really helping the Thai people that mob are

While the rest of the region gets new bio-tech research facilities and manufacturing plants Thailand gets skin cream researchers ;-)

once again you have no idea about the facts. thailand has a vast reserch and develpoment centres in all fields of science and maybe if you look at he following link you can learn something.

http://www.biotec.or.th/shrinfo/documents/...%20Research.pdf

and then go this site and educate your selfsome more...

http://www.biotec.or.th/biotechnology-en/index.asp

Their best guys may just have to go overseas for the best jobs but they will not regret it.

As to get you back on track about thailand scientific record and achievments in relation to HIV

i think you will find the next Thai scientist very interesting.

Krisana Kraisintu

Kraisintu, a noted Thai pharmacist, is working with the German Medical Aid Organization to develop locally produced, affordable generic drugs for impoverished AIDS patients in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Eritrea, and Tanzania.

Kraisintu's work to broaden the availability of AIDS drugs in southeast Asia earned her the title "AIDS Warrior" from her peers. Through her work, 70,000 AIDS/HIV patients in Thailand and an additional 30,000 patients in Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam were able to gain access to affordable treatment. Kraisintu and her research team have worked on formulation development and bioequivalence studies of HIV/AIDS -related drugs since 1992. Thailand became the first developing country to make these affordable drugs relatively widely available.

Kraisintu received a bachelor's degree in pharmacy from Chiengmai University, Thailand in 1975, a master's in pharmaceutical analysis from Strathclyde University, U.K. in 1978, and a doctorate in pharmaceutical chemistry from Bath University, U.K. in 1981. For the past 22 years, she has worked in the pharmaceutical industry in various roles of quality assurance, manufacturing, research and development, and business development for the discovery, development, and commercialization of chemical and natural pharmaceutical products.

Kraisintu received a Gold Medal at Eureka 50th World Exhibition of Innovation, Research, and New Technology in Brussels in 2001, and a Global Scientific Award in 2004 from the Letten Foundation as recognition of her outstanding scientific contribution in the field of HIV/AIDS.

A tin pot dictatorship with ideas about as big as tin pot dictators usually have - they steal power and now want to steal other items but with the harsh light of scrutiny they squirm like most corrupt third world dictators.

If you really think Thailand is anywhere on the map for bio-medical science you need a reality check ;-))

I would suggest you educate yourself and thats as far as I will go with that one!!!

Look at the money pouring into India, China and Singapore for this and then lets talk. You can also look at what Taiwan is doing to attract these companies and the aid it gives to clinical trials.

You name one person - very good person but one single person in your argument - compare this one guy to the amount of world class researchers in a tiny country of 4 million like Singapore.

Talk sense!

[highdiver]

If you really think Thailand is anywhere on the map for bio-medical science you need a reality check ;-))

I would suggest you educate yourself and thats as far as I will go with that one!!!

Look at the money pouring into India, China and Singapore for this and then lets talk. You can also look at what Taiwan is doing to attract these companies and the aid it gives to clinical trials.

You name one person - very good person but one single person in your argument - compare this one guy to the amount of world class researchers in a tiny country of 4 million like Singapore.

Talk sense!

you realy should try and lowe your pace. god forbid you will need the heart drug and they are so expensive...

As for making sense and a reality check please be so kind as to read below.

first you said that Thailand was stealing and it is not.

the use of compulsory licensing is permissible under the World Trade Organization's Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPs) Agreement. The consistency of Thailand's decision with WTO rules has not been disputed, including by the U.S. Trade Representative. And while this was the first time Thailand used such a measure, they were not the first to do so.

it had taken the Thai Ministry of Public Health more than two years, including discussions with pharmaceutical companies, before it made its decision. After the compulsory licenses were announced, the Public Health Ministry still maintained dialogue with all stakeholders to find mutually acceptable solutions.

of the three compulsory licenses announced, only one has been implemented. In January 2007, a deal was signed between the Government Pharmaceutical Organization and an Indian drug firm to import 66,000 bottles of generic Efavirenz. The first batch has already arrived and reduced prices by more than half, allowing an additional 20,000 AIDS patients under the government's health-care programs to acquire the medicine.

compulsory licensing is neither linked to the current political situation in Thailand nor connected to the country's other economic or financial measures announced or implemented recently. Compulsory licensing is used to protect public health and save lives. Such matters should not be politicized.

then you said that Thailand only has research in cream... once again not true.

thailand is a world leader in reserch for anti maleria drugs. thailand has many world known scientists in the fields of bio agriculture and even in cancer research. I understand you disaprove of the current goverment but there is no reason for you to under estimate thailands scientific comunity and the wonderfull work they do.

then you said there is "no one person"

and when i showed you one you want to see more.

i sugest you have a realy good look at the sites i posted you as I dont belive you went over them so quickly and inthem you will find many other well educated and world recogenised thai scientiist and then lets debate this again.

as for looking at china and india... you relay must be kidding. thailand has 55 milion citizens and those countries have over a billion and half how can you even compare.

[Plus]

Prakanong

a) No matter how many times you call compulsory licensing "stealing" - IT IS NOT. Repeating it ad nauseum will NOT make it so.

Large proportion of pharma's profits comes from drugs pretty much like Gurmin skin cream, according to anti-pharma sources, at least. It was covered somewhere at the start of this very thread.

c) GPO might not be at the edge of biotech research but maybe it was never meant to be, it's supposed to produce cheap, generic version of drugs. I'm sure Thailand's production of no name copy drugs pales comparing to India.

[endure]

Then again is using education and Thailand in the same sentence something along the lines of a double negative? - They kind of cancel each other out. Lets just continue to keep the poor masses ignorant/ uniformed/ uneducated so the top percentile can continue to live the high life off their toil.

Meechai Veeravaidya didn't think that educating the population was a double negative and he was right. Perhaps he ought to have another go.

[nick2k]

Prakanong

a) No matter how many times you call compulsory licensing "stealing" - IT IS NOT. Repeating it ad nauseum will NOT make it so.

Large proportion of pharma's profits comes from drugs pretty much like Gurmin skin cream, according to anti-pharma sources, at least. It was covered somewhere at the start of this very thread.

c) GPO might not be at the edge of biotech research but maybe it was never meant to be, it's supposed to produce cheap, generic version of drugs. I'm sure Thailand's production of no name copy drugs pales comparing to India.

I love it. keep it coming...

chrysler is already going back to the usa. and ford is thinking about it, I'm sure. you got to believe all the pharmaceuticals are too. what do you think?

LIKE YOU SAID, you can say the compulsory licensing is NOT stealing all you want. but when it comes down to it, it's what the pharmaceuticals think. not you. if the pharmaceuticals don't want to sell to you in the future, what are you going to do? ..twiddle your thumbs? maybe go to india?

the inventors hold all the keys. not you or anybody like you. because of your greediness, the patent system will be damaged, and inventors will not believe in it anymore. as a result, they will not document the processes for their inventions for all to see. therefore, there will be no record for india or any other country to copy the invention.

all mankind will suffer.

thailand is stupid with this compulsory licensing.

definitely short term thinking.

[Prakanong]

Then again is using education and Thailand in the same sentence something along the lines of a double negative? - They kind of cancel each other out. Lets just continue to keep the poor masses ignorant/ uniformed/ uneducated so the top percentile can continue to live the high life off their toil.

Meechai Veeravaidya didn't think that educating the population was a double negative and he was right. Perhaps he ought to have another go.

I thought he was going to have another go - there was talk about it.

OK his first conndom campaign was for birth control but it did have the brilliant side affect of restricting HIV infection too.

A brilliant guy who did a brilliant job - Thailand needs a couple of thousand like him and it would bedoing very well indeed.

[Prakanong]

Highdiver

Thailand did not negotiate with the particular companies involved in this CL round and admits it did not do so as under WTO rules it does not have to. Trying to obfusicate this matter by saying it had negotiated with other companies does your position no justice.

You are very selective - forget Singapore did you when I said look at world class researchers from a country with a small population?

What the hel_l has population size got to do with it - piss poor argument

You quote anti-malaria - I accept Thailand is researching into it. Show me that research?

Where will the first marketed vaccine for malaria come from? I know where my money is on!

Yes there are a lot of clinical trials going on in Thailand and they are increasing - do you know the driving forces behind this?

Having CT's is not the same as having a research industry like Singapore and other countries.

Do you really know what you are talking about as I am having my doubts that you know about as much as my dead grandmother does about the pharma industry

[Prakanong]

Prakanong

a) No matter how many times you call compulsory licensing "stealing" - IT IS NOT. Repeating it ad nauseum will NOT make it so.

Large proportion of pharma's profits comes from drugs pretty much like Gurmin skin cream, according to anti-pharma sources, at least. It was covered somewhere at the start of this very thread.

c) GPO might not be at the edge of biotech research but maybe it was never meant to be, it's supposed to produce cheap, generic version of drugs. I'm sure Thailand's production of no name copy drugs pales comparing to India.

A) I do not deny Thailand has a right to issue CL's and actually would defend them in the case of the 2nd line HIV/AID's drugs. Its the other drugs I have an issue with and object to the hardballing of the health minister who is doing Thailands cause harm all the way.

I do think this whole situation could have been approached in a different manner buy all sides

If I ever had to shake his hand or that of the Adleman guy I would count my fingers afterwards prior to wiping my hand clean and as I have said before the practices of Abott in the industry are far from nice.

I doubt this very much. Let us look at the two biggest pharma company's in the world. Pfizer has just sold its consumer health division (this is where skin cream would be). GSK has still a CHD (Ribena, Lemsip anyone?) but its revenues and profits are way behind their pharma and bilogicals (vaccines) divisions.

I would like to see examples of a true pharma company earning more from consumer health than pharma

C) Just what is the GPO production - kudos to them for the HIV cocktail but after that what? - skin cream and herbal remedies - the Thai people deserve better.

Yes India is a world leader in generic drugs and their bioequivalence is quite good as well form the little i have heard about this. I just have personal doubts about the GPO in this area - just a gut feeling and talkling to a few people so take that how you like.

From Wiki

" A generic must contain the same active ingredients as the original formulation. In most cases, it is considered bioequivalent to the brand name counterpart with respect to pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic properties. By extension, therefore, generics are assumed to be identical in dose, strength, route of administration, safety, efficacy, and intended use"

"Bioequivalence, however, does not mean that generic drugs are exactly the same as their innovator product counterparts, as chemical differences do exist. Some doctors and patients emphatically believe that certain generic drugs are not as effective as the products they are meant to replace (ie. Prozac, Oxycontin), and consumers would undoubtedly benefit from more clinical studies done on drug by drug basis. "

I do believe side by side trials are required - its not often these direct comparison trials are done. this is why the rcent announcement of the GSK candidate cervical cancer vaccine going up against Mercks Gardasil in terms of immunogenicity was big news in the industry.

[TokyoT]

Yea they had nothing to do with it at all and that is why they got a patent?

maybe not why ,

however obtaining the patent was the only thing your greedy self serving pigs contributed .....................

Ah yes those silly buggers down at the patent office simply gave them the patent because they happened to be the first in line the day the patent office decided to give the patent out. No research, no clinical trials, no effort used, no money spend. Simply stand in line and get your patent.

Maybe they felt sorry for the little piggy?

Down with capitalism, up with fascism, racism, socialism, communism, any other –ism just please, please, no more capitalism.

Because we all know companies would really be lining up to research/produce more drugs if we took the profit motive out of the equation.

[TokyoT]

Then again is using education and Thailand in the same sentence something along the lines of a double negative? - They kind of cancel each other out. Lets just continue to keep the poor masses ignorant/ uniformed/ uneducated so the top percentile can continue to live the high life off their toil.

Meechai Veeravaidya didn't think that educating the population was a double negative and he was right. Perhaps he ought to have another go.

Ah yes, Mr Condom himself. Silly bugger that man thinking that education could get us anywhere – especially when it comes to sex.

[TokyoT]

Interesting OP-ed in the Washington Times:

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20070514-093346-6396r.htm

Also from Reuters:

Thai drug patent overrides depend on price cuts

15 May 2007 11:46:12 GMT

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BKK50675.htm

Not sure if we can trust either of these capitalist sources (I heard Reuters might even be for sale – and to the capitalistic Canuck (Thomson) for Christ sake).

Edited May 17, 2007 by TokyoT

[Mid]

Ah yes those silly buggers down at the patent office simply gave them the patent because they happened to be the first in line

correct , thanxs ...............................