Thailand Blacklisted From Receiving New AIDS Drugs

[TokyoT]

Ah yes those silly buggers down at the patent office simply gave them the patent because they happened to be the first in line

correct , thanxs ...............................

Are you in editor in the real world?

[Jai Dee]

NHSO to finalize CL for cancer drugs within this month

The National Health Security Office (NHSO) will finalize an issuance of compulsory licensing (CL) for cancer drugs within this month

NHSO Secretary-General Md.Sughuan Nittayarampong (สงวน นิตยารัมภ์พงศ์) says the ministry of public health has instructed him to study the ingredients of drugs for cancer patients in order to import the materials and produce the generic-version of the drugs. Md.Saghuna says NHSO is considering which type of cancer drugs it will issue (CL) for.

The secretary-general reveals that in selecting drugs for CL, NHSO focuses on the severity of illness and the number of patients who cannot afford the drugs. Md.Saghuan is a member of the committee responsible for the selection of drugs necessary to be covered by compulsory license.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 17 May 2007

[Mid]

Ah yes those silly buggers down at the patent office simply gave them the patent because they happened to be the first in line

correct , thanxs ...............................

Are you in an editor in the real world?

nope

[Prakanong]

"NHSO Secretary-General Md.Sughuan Nittayarampong (สงวน นิตยารัมภ์พงศ์) says the ministry of public health has instructed him to study the ingredients of drugs for cancer patients in order to import the materials and produce the generic-version of the drugs"

So it would seem the GPO is going to make these ones then - importing the materials - this will be interesting indeed.

As I have said before just having the same ingredients os often not enough to produce drugs of the same quality - the GPO mention GMP and ISO but they are just procedures.

I would like to see the background of the GPO manufacturing staff - I know the training and qualifications of people running this for a major pharma are very high and the experience involved long. The old saying about paying peanuts comes to mind.

The argument about severity of disease is one that could be debated all day and I bet epidemiologists and Public Health officials would have a different viewpoint as would most normal rational people.

If you are going to do it do it where there is a public health emergency and where it will have the biggest impact on the public health and society as a whole.

They are basing their arguments on affordability only

These people just do not get it!

[Prakanong]

And if Thailand is going to insist on producing its own drug I sincerely hope it issues another CL for the ehat stable version of the drug.

Anyone who knows anything about medicine and cold storage chains will know that Thailand is not the place to be going its own way with this and its not just due to the climate.

If it goes for the one requiring the cold chain I can see lots of non-compliant drugs given that just might cause resistance to these drugs and then generally hurt rather than help the patients it is trying to help (or make a profit with).

[slimdog]

And if Thailand is going to insist on producing its own drug I sincerely hope it issues another CL for the heat stable version of the drug.

The Compulory licence with Abbott will be for the generic name lopinavir/ritonavir which covers both Brand names Kaletra and Aluvia(The heat stable version of Kaletra), so there will be no need to issue an additional CL.

[Prakanong]

And if Thailand is going to insist on producing its own drug I sincerely hope it issues another CL for the heat stable version of the drug.

The Compulory licence with Abbott will be for the generic name lopinavir/ritonavir which covers both Brand names Kaletra and Aluvia(The heat stable version of Kaletra), so there will be no need to issue an additional CL.

Thanks for the clarification.

My experience with Thailand and cold storage chain for medicines is that its not too bad compared to some other countries in the region.

This is under very strict monitoring conditions with Dr's choses for their expertise and with a lot of training for site staff though with all the correct monitoring devices in place looking for temp deviations.

Depending on the delivery infrastructure ie where the drug was distributd from and how delivered it *might* be different without check and balances in place ie monitoring and independent audits.

A drug not requiring all this is much more likely to be delivered in a compliant fashion.

[Plus]

Interesting OP-ed in the Washington Times:

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20070514-093346-6396r.htm

Jees, I didn't know about imprisonment of political opponents in Thailand. A bit of poetic license by Robert Goldberg, for dramatic effect, I suppose.

"Indeed, conference delegates were quite clear that the public health model is inadequate and a failure. Rather, the solution will come from start ups who see in the provision of low cost health care to the poor both profit and social opportunity."

Recent study on health care system in the US and seven other developed countries showed that it's the US model that is inadequate. It finished in the last place despite the US spending three times more per person for hospital care and two times more for medicine. Any ideas who benefits most from all this spending?

chrysler is already going back to the usa. and ford is thinking about it, I'm sure. you got to believe all the pharmaceuticals are too. what do you think?

Chrysler is going back to the usa??? It's being unceremoniously dumped by its german owners, there's still a chance it will be bought by Canadians.

[highdiver]

once again we have a problem with facts.

Highdiver

Thailand did not negotiate with the particular companies involved in this CL round and admits it did not do so as under WTO rules it does not have to. Trying to obfusicate this matter by saying it had negotiated with other companies does your position no justice.

YES they did!!! over and over again but you just wish to not to accept it. another poster has posted a link from washington post stating forer president Clinton""I strongly support the position of the governments of Thailand and Brazil and their decision after futile negotiations."

You are very selective - forget Singapore did you when I said look at world class researchers from a country with a small population?

No i was not. Sinagpore however never developed any bio Tech of its own and was mosstly used for manufacturing activities. during 2005 the SG goverment has taken aninitiative of developing this field with the initiation of the Science park and and have made an import of R&Dincluding scientist from around the world, from large world's leading players such as American Home Products, Adventism, Merck, Sharpe & Dohme, Glaxo, SmithKline, and Schering Plough. In addition, leading medical devices companies such as Baxter, Becton-Dickinson, and Siemens have substantial R&D

What the hel_l has population size got to do with it - piss poor argument

statistcly if you have 1 billion people and over 1000 bio companies then there is more chance of development then a 55 mil country. the sales potential in those countries is greater then in Thailand hence the investors desire to invest in them.

You quote anti-malaria - I accept Thailand is researching into it. Show me that research?

please please look at the web sites i sent you.

Where will the first marketed vaccine for malaria come from? I know where my money is on!

Yes there are a lot of clinical trials going on in Thailand and they are increasing - do you know the driving forces behind this?

Yes i do. its the royal family who has a bacground in life science and the goverment and royal family support of universities. In 2003 the Thai government has issued the National Policy Framework for Biotechnology (2004-2009) to underscore the vital role to be played by biotechnology in Thailand’s national economic and social development. To support the goals of this national policy, various government agencies and other organizations are empowered to offer arrange of incentives for biotech investors.among these is the Thailand Science Park (see reference) which incorporate a biotechnology park with incubation, laboratory and pilot plant space for biotechnology start-ups. The fully integrated parks offer service such as professional researchers, shared equipment, soft loans, tax incentives and various supporting programs to help new companies get a good start. Most importantly, office space and utilities are very reasonably priced compared with other countries in the region.

Having CT's is not the same as having a research industry like Singapore and other countries.

once again you have no idea about what you are saying ...take a few minutes and go to The Department of Medical Sciences, Mahidol University or the Chang mai university and havea look at what they are doing. it may once and for all iliminate your ideas. there is reserach and development in cancer, stem cells, cardiac, agriculture, and even genes. go to the Thailand Science Park and learn alittle bit befor you shoot your mouth.

Do you really know what you are talking about as I am having my doubts that you know about as much as my dead grandmother does about the pharma industry

Please do take the time to learn someting before you post. its in your own favour. there is no point in having a debate with you when you are only bashing and "inventing"facts"

[highdiver]

And if Thailand is going to insist on producing its own drug I sincerely hope it issues another CL for the heat stable version of the drug.

The Compulory licence with Abbott will be for the generic name lopinavir/ritonavir which covers both Brand names Kaletra and Aluvia(The heat stable version of Kaletra), so there will be no need to issue an additional CL.

Thanks for the clarification.

My experience with Thailand and cold storage chain for medicines is that its not too bad compared to some other countries in the region.

This is under very strict monitoring conditions with Dr's choses for their expertise and with a lot of training for site staff though with all the correct monitoring devices in place looking for temp deviations.

Depending on the delivery infrastructure ie where the drug was distributd from and how delivered it *might* be different without check and balances in place ie monitoring and independent audits.

A drug not requiring all this is much more likely to be delivered in a compliant fashion.

sorry for being so slow... I just got it. you work for a Drug comapny.

and all those posts i thought you were concerend with Thailand... oh silly me.

I can now understand the intrests behind your posts.

[Rhys]

Abbott labs was not the market leader for nothing... They are extremely capable of pulling off their market share quotas... Does Thailand and whatever B...republic think they can mess with B-Business..

Smoke and mirrors..In the news today.. the backdoor counterside manner rules the day..And the rep that comes calling on the docs.. with promotional education grants.. will over take the Bs of Thailand..

Look at this history of other markets.. countries.. look at Latin America..Abbott certainly had a syringe in there, but not like the beakerfull in Africa..

NA.. the NGOs.. are playing their games.. who foots the bills.. just like the lobbist for hire.. No..sadly as always the patients suffer..

ABC.. Alway be closing..

[slimdog]

For anyone who is interested, there is a report titled, "Timeline of Trade Disputes involving Thailand and access to medicines" which was written in 2001 which details Pharmaceutical trade disputes between Thailand and the USA, and actions by both countries. (1979 - 2001)

It is just to show that what is happening today is not a new thing..

http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/c/thailand/thailand.html

[Prakanong]

And if Thailand is going to insist on producing its own drug I sincerely hope it issues another CL for the heat stable version of the drug.

The Compulory licence with Abbott will be for the generic name lopinavir/ritonavir which covers both Brand names Kaletra and Aluvia(The heat stable version of Kaletra), so there will be no need to issue an additional CL.

Thanks for the clarification.

My experience with Thailand and cold storage chain for medicines is that its not too bad compared to some other countries in the region.

This is under very strict monitoring conditions with Dr's choses for their expertise and with a lot of training for site staff though with all the correct monitoring devices in place looking for temp deviations.

Depending on the delivery infrastructure ie where the drug was distributd from and how delivered it *might* be different without check and balances in place ie monitoring and independent audits.

A drug not requiring all this is much more likely to be delivered in a compliant fashion.

sorry for being so slow... I just got it. you work for a Drug comapny.

and all those posts i thought you were concerend with Thailand... oh silly me.

I can now understand the intrests behind your posts.

"sorry for being so slow... "

ROTFLMTO

Well no need to apologise to me for you being thick and having no knowledge of the sugject you are trying to debate.

It does show you can not pick up on the explicit which everyone else knows

End of your term report - could do better but does not posess the material!

[Prakanong]

once again we have a problem with facts.

Highdiver

Thailand did not negotiate with the particular companies involved in this CL round and admits it did not do so as under WTO rules it does not have to. Trying to obfusicate this matter by saying it had negotiated with other companies does your position no justice.

YES they did!!! over and over again but you just wish to not to accept it. another poster has posted a link from washington post stating forer president Clinton""I strongly support the position of the governments of Thailand and Brazil and their decision after futile negotiations."

You are very selective - forget Singapore did you when I said look at world class researchers from a country with a small population?

No i was not. Sinagpore however never developed any bio Tech of its own and was mosstly used for manufacturing activities. during 2005 the SG goverment has taken aninitiative of developing this field with the initiation of the Science park and and have made an import of R&Dincluding scientist from around the world, from large world's leading players such as American Home Products, Adventism, Merck, Sharpe & Dohme, Glaxo, SmithKline, and Schering Plough. In addition, leading medical devices companies such as Baxter, Becton-Dickinson, and Siemens have substantial R&D

What the hel_l has population size got to do with it - piss poor argument

statistcly if you have 1 billion people and over 1000 bio companies then there is more chance of development then a 55 mil country. the sales potential in those countries is greater then in Thailand hence the investors desire to invest in them.

You quote anti-malaria - I accept Thailand is researching into it. Show me that research?

please please look at the web sites i sent you.

Where will the first marketed vaccine for malaria come from? I know where my money is on!

Yes there are a lot of clinical trials going on in Thailand and they are increasing - do you know the driving forces behind this?

Yes i do. its the royal family who has a bacground in life science and the goverment and royal family support of universities. In 2003 the Thai government has issued the National Policy Framework for Biotechnology (2004-2009) to underscore the vital role to be played by biotechnology in Thailand’s national economic and social development. To support the goals of this national policy, various government agencies and other organizations are empowered to offer arrange of incentives for biotech investors.among these is the Thailand Science Park (see reference) which incorporate a biotechnology park with incubation, laboratory and pilot plant space for biotechnology start-ups. The fully integrated parks offer service such as professional researchers, shared equipment, soft loans, tax incentives and various supporting programs to help new companies get a good start. Most importantly, office space and utilities are very reasonably priced compared with other countries in the region.

Having CT's is not the same as having a research industry like Singapore and other countries.

once again you have no idea about what you are saying ...take a few minutes and go to The Department of Medical Sciences, Mahidol University or the Chang mai university and havea look at what they are doing. it may once and for all iliminate your ideas. there is reserach and development in cancer, stem cells, cardiac, agriculture, and even genes. go to the Thailand Science Park and learn alittle bit befor you shoot your mouth.

Do you really know what you are talking about as I am having my doubts that you know about as much as my dead grandmother does about the pharma industry

Please do take the time to learn someting before you post. its in your own favour. there is no point in having a debate with you when you are only bashing and "inventing"facts"

You really just do not get it do you?

What you propose as the driving force behind the recent large growth in clinical trials in Thailand has got nothing to do with what you say.

The biggest driver is cost and availablity of subjects together with Drs who can do the trials my dear chap!

No-one is denying there is some research going on in Thailand - my argument is it is not on the scale or quality of the likes of Singapore and many others in the region.

That is why the investment goes elsewhere and the talent.

You really have to try better to understand the simple things like quality, scale, etc before you make yourself look like a fool!

You could try arguing without google as well so you can show your knowledge off about these subjects but i reckon thats a bridge too far for you as I fear I am in a battle of wits with an unarmed foe!

" Most importantly, office space and utilities are very reasonably priced compared with other countries in the region"

And still they head south to Singapore instead!!!!!!

Edited May 17, 2007 by Prakanong

[TokyoT]

Issuing a CL might not be considered stealing under the rules of the WTO, but the impacts of the move (especially if the expand the drugs under CL or if the move by Thailand and Brazil have a ripple effect and more, and more countries move for CL’s) might have consequences that are not so pretty. That’s why WHO warned Thailand not to make the move in the first place – legal under the rules or not.

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports...amp;DR_ID=42708

Now with the possible expansion into Cancer drugs who knows what the follow-on effort could be for Thailand or for the biotech industry in/ around Thailand.

Thailand has put some effort into growing the biotech sector and has some strengths, though I feel most of those strengths are on the agriculture side of biotech as apposed to the medical side of things.

I would however agree that Thailand has some real strengths in Malaria (especially Mahidol University’s Welcome Trust - which is actually a joint effort between Mahidol and Oxford dating back to 1979, current director Nick White).

http://www.tm.mahidol.ac.th/en/wellcome/index.html

Thailand is actually hosting a biotech conference this year, but even with that the focus is highly slanted towards the agricultural side of things.

http://www.chemweb.com/submitted-news/201c...chterm=thailand

http://www.bioasia-2007.com/

Some discussion as to how Thailand rates in biotech and I would give them credit for at least getting on the ladder, but Singapore (sure much of the investment there has been from the outside world but quite a few of those facilities are research or research related and quite a few of them are in the drug arena rather than the agricultural arena – Lilly earlier this year announced a $150m expansion in R&D in Singapore), Taiwan, Malaysia (see BioNexus – mainly ag based), South Korea, China/India (OK large populations but still have to be part of the discussions) all far ahead of Thailand. I recall an earlier article about Thailand wanting to bring in 100 new biotech firms by 2009. Realizing that to really be a player in biotech they need foreign direct investment and some of the big boys to come and set up shops in Thailand. The issue I see is that pretty much any place one looks to find information about expanding biotech IP is discussed and concerns about protection of IP is a major issue. The more the CL’s are in the press and the more drugs Thailand issues CL’s for the harder it will be for Thailand to grow the biotech industry in Thailand.

Then again maybe Thailand is on the right track – down with the capitalist swine. I read somewhere they were even thinking of not allowing the poor to vote. More power to’em I say.

Edited May 17, 2007 by TokyoT

[Mid]

Then again maybe Thailand is on the right track - down with the capitalist swine.

Capitalism goes hand in glove with Consumerism , which is not sustainable ..................................

[TokyoT]

Then again maybe Thailand is on the right track - down with the capitalist swine.

Capitalism goes hand in glove with Consumerism , which is not sustainable ..................................

Says the person with the big Yacht as an avatar - can we all have one of those yachts please?

You might be right I googled 'sustainable consumerism' and got lots of hits – leading one to believe that it might just be possible. But then I went to wikipedia and searched under 'sustainable consumerism' and got zero hits. So according to wikipedia sustainable consumerism does not exist.

Edited May 17, 2007 by TokyoT

[slimdog]

Editorial from Asia Times on Line

EDITORIAL

Big Pharma wants to help you. RIP

"We need the new, cheap drugs to live longer." The words of Boripat Dornmon, a 40-year-old Thai who has HIV/AIDS (See Holding Big Pharma's feet to the fire, May 16**) go to the heart of the matter.

For Boripat, the heated arguments over Thailand's decision to break patents for anti-retroviral (ARV) drugs used to treat HIV/AIDS are simply irrelevant. He cannot afford the patented brands provided by the giant pharmaceutical companies. Without a cheaper, generic alternative, he and millions of other sufferers in the developing and under-developed world will die soon.

Thousands of words are being written about the pros and cons of Thailand's move. "Intellectual property rights", "patent", "copyright" and "piracy" figure prominently among them. They will not change Boripat's mind. To him it's blindingly simple: a matter of life or death.

In that light, the arguments being trotted out by Big Pharma and its proxies have the ring of unmitigated sophistry. "Thailand is refusing American and European medical technology at the expense of the poor and sick of Thailand," says a Big Pharma lobby group calling itself, evidently with a sense of irony, "USA for Innovation". The group has been making such claims in full-page ads in Thailand's newspapers. "Most of Thailand's AIDS patients will not have access to the world's best medicines," USA for Innovation adds, presumably ironically, since it's not Big Pharma trying to remedy that situation, it's the Thai government.

We guess that what USA for Innovation is really telling Boripat is, "We want to help you, but you have to die so we can do it. We have to be cruel to be kind. It's called 'tough love', buddie.

"You see, Boripat, we have to sell our drugs at these prices so that we can plough the profits back into research and development. That allows us to produce new, life-saving, miracle drugs, so that we can ... er ... save lives.

"Nurse! We seem to have lost Boripat. Rest in peace, buddie."

While the full-page ad war rages, one big pharmaceutical company has tried to show that, after all, it really does have a heart. Or perhaps it just feels that a bit of good PR will help it stay in Developing World markets. Whatever its motive, Abbott Laboratories announced last month a reduced price in Thailand for its AIDS drug, Kaletra, to US$1,000 for annual dosage per patient from $2,200. Whoopee. Average annual per capita income in Thailand is about $3,000.

The business of America (and Big Pharma everywhere) is business, the old saw goes. We don't deny them the right to do business. But please, USA for Innovation, Fox News, President Bush, spare us the nonsense that what America does is for the good of humankind. It just doesn't work outside the US. For Boripat, such assertions are risible. And if you're still asking yourselves "why do they hate us?", ask him.

(** http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IE17Ae02.html)

source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IE17Ae03.html

[Mid]

sure ,

right after I get one more substantial than the avatar .....................

enjoy you life working for the man M-F to earn the $'s to buy the goods you produced last week on Sat ,

everyone knows Christians rest on Sun ,

and repeat the process from Mon next ..........................

[highdiver]

once again we have a problem with facts.

Highdiver

Thailand did not negotiate with the particular companies involved in this CL round and admits it did not do so as under WTO rules it does not have to. Trying to obfusicate this matter by saying it had negotiated with other companies does your position no justice.

YES they did!!! over and over again but you just wish to not to accept it. another poster has posted a link from washington post stating forer president Clinton""I strongly support the position of the governments of Thailand and Brazil and their decision after futile negotiations."

You are very selective - forget Singapore did you when I said look at world class researchers from a country with a small population?

No i was not. Sinagpore however never developed any bio Tech of its own and was mosstly used for manufacturing activities. during 2005 the SG goverment has taken aninitiative of developing this field with the initiation of the Science park and and have made an import of R&Dincluding scientist from around the world, from large world's leading players such as American Home Products, Adventism, Merck, Sharpe & Dohme, Glaxo, SmithKline, and Schering Plough. In addition, leading medical devices companies such as Baxter, Becton-Dickinson, and Siemens have substantial R&D

What the hel_l has population size got to do with it - piss poor argument

statistcly if you have 1 billion people and over 1000 bio companies then there is more chance of development then a 55 mil country. the sales potential in those countries is greater then in Thailand hence the investors desire to invest in them.

You quote anti-malaria - I accept Thailand is researching into it. Show me that research?

please please look at the web sites i sent you.

Where will the first marketed vaccine for malaria come from? I know where my money is on!

Yes there are a lot of clinical trials going on in Thailand and they are increasing - do you know the driving forces behind this?

Yes i do. its the royal family who has a bacground in life science and the goverment and royal family support of universities. In 2003 the Thai government has issued the National Policy Framework for Biotechnology (2004-2009) to underscore the vital role to be played by biotechnology in Thailand’s national economic and social development. To support the goals of this national policy, various government agencies and other organizations are empowered to offer arrange of incentives for biotech investors.among these is the Thailand Science Park (see reference) which incorporate a biotechnology park with incubation, laboratory and pilot plant space for biotechnology start-ups. The fully integrated parks offer service such as professional researchers, shared equipment, soft loans, tax incentives and various supporting programs to help new companies get a good start. Most importantly, office space and utilities are very reasonably priced compared with other countries in the region.

Having CT's is not the same as having a research industry like Singapore and other countries.

once again you have no idea about what you are saying ...take a few minutes and go to The Department of Medical Sciences, Mahidol University or the Chang mai university and havea look at what they are doing. it may once and for all iliminate your ideas. there is reserach and development in cancer, stem cells, cardiac, agriculture, and even genes. go to the Thailand Science Park and learn alittle bit befor you shoot your mouth.

Do you really know what you are talking about as I am having my doubts that you know about as much as my dead grandmother does about the pharma industry

Please do take the time to learn someting before you post. its in your own favour. there is no point in having a debate with you when you are only bashing and "inventing"facts"

You really just do not get it do you?

What you propose as the driving force behind the recent large growth in clinical trials in Thailand has got nothing to do with what you say.

The biggest driver is cost and availablity of subjects together with Drs who can do the trials my dear chap!

No-one is denying there is some research going on in Thailand - my argument is it is not on the scale or quality of the likes of Singapore and many others in the region.

That is why the investment goes elsewhere and the talent.

You really have to try better to understand the simple things like quality, scale, etc before you make yourself look like a fool!

You could try arguing without google as well so you can show your knowledge off about these subjects but i reckon thats a bridge too far for you as I fear I am in a battle of wits with an unarmed foe!

" Most importantly, office space and utilities are very reasonably priced compared with other countries in the region"

And still they head south to Singapore instead!!!!!!

sorry darling.

can not debate with you any more.

it seems you favour fiction over facts.

there has not been one post that you had the facts right.

and when you stand corrected by other members including myself with hard evidence you ignore it and invent more and more fiction.

by the way maybe if you do google and search the subject before you might actually know what your posting.

good luck in saving your job in the drug comapnies.

[Prakanong]

once again we have a problem with facts.

Highdiver

Thailand did not negotiate with the particular companies involved in this CL round and admits it did not do so as under WTO rules it does not have to. Trying to obfusicate this matter by saying it had negotiated with other companies does your position no justice.

YES they did!!! over and over again but you just wish to not to accept it. another poster has posted a link from washington post stating forer president Clinton""I strongly support the position of the governments of Thailand and Brazil and their decision after futile negotiations."

You are very selective - forget Singapore did you when I said look at world class researchers from a country with a small population?

No i was not. Sinagpore however never developed any bio Tech of its own and was mosstly used for manufacturing activities. during 2005 the SG goverment has taken aninitiative of developing this field with the initiation of the Science park and and have made an import of R&Dincluding scientist from around the world, from large world's leading players such as American Home Products, Adventism, Merck, Sharpe & Dohme, Glaxo, SmithKline, and Schering Plough. In addition, leading medical devices companies such as Baxter, Becton-Dickinson, and Siemens have substantial R&D

What the hel_l has population size got to do with it - piss poor argument

statistcly if you have 1 billion people and over 1000 bio companies then there is more chance of development then a 55 mil country. the sales potential in those countries is greater then in Thailand hence the investors desire to invest in them.

You quote anti-malaria - I accept Thailand is researching into it. Show me that research?

please please look at the web sites i sent you.

Where will the first marketed vaccine for malaria come from? I know where my money is on!

Yes there are a lot of clinical trials going on in Thailand and they are increasing - do you know the driving forces behind this?

Yes i do. its the royal family who has a bacground in life science and the goverment and royal family support of universities. In 2003 the Thai government has issued the National Policy Framework for Biotechnology (2004-2009) to underscore the vital role to be played by biotechnology in Thailand’s national economic and social development. To support the goals of this national policy, various government agencies and other organizations are empowered to offer arrange of incentives for biotech investors.among these is the Thailand Science Park (see reference) which incorporate a biotechnology park with incubation, laboratory and pilot plant space for biotechnology start-ups. The fully integrated parks offer service such as professional researchers, shared equipment, soft loans, tax incentives and various supporting programs to help new companies get a good start. Most importantly, office space and utilities are very reasonably priced compared with other countries in the region.

Having CT's is not the same as having a research industry like Singapore and other countries.

once again you have no idea about what you are saying ...take a few minutes and go to The Department of Medical Sciences, Mahidol University or the Chang mai university and havea look at what they are doing. it may once and for all iliminate your ideas. there is reserach and development in cancer, stem cells, cardiac, agriculture, and even genes. go to the Thailand Science Park and learn alittle bit befor you shoot your mouth.

Do you really know what you are talking about as I am having my doubts that you know about as much as my dead grandmother does about the pharma industry

Please do take the time to learn someting before you post. its in your own favour. there is no point in having a debate with you when you are only bashing and "inventing"facts"

You really just do not get it do you?

What you propose as the driving force behind the recent large growth in clinical trials in Thailand has got nothing to do with what you say.

The biggest driver is cost and availablity of subjects together with Drs who can do the trials my dear chap!

No-one is denying there is some research going on in Thailand - my argument is it is not on the scale or quality of the likes of Singapore and many others in the region.

That is why the investment goes elsewhere and the talent.

You really have to try better to understand the simple things like quality, scale, etc before you make yourself look like a fool!

You could try arguing without google as well so you can show your knowledge off about these subjects but i reckon thats a bridge too far for you as I fear I am in a battle of wits with an unarmed foe!

" Most importantly, office space and utilities are very reasonably priced compared with other countries in the region"

And still they head south to Singapore instead!!!!!!

sorry darling.

can not debate with you any more.

it seems you favour fiction over facts.

there has not been one post that you had the facts right.

and when you stand corrected by other members including myself with hard evidence you ignore it and invent more and more fiction.

by the way maybe if you do google and search the subject before you might actually know what your posting.

good luck in saving your job in the drug comapnies.

OK then see you google boy loser!

PS CT's are clinical trials but you do not seem to grasp that basic fct. Yes they are researching a lot at Mahidol and the like - usually pre-clinical.

Here is the rub -you do not really understand the drug development process at all d you and you know idea of clinical and pre-clinical - its like debating with half a brain!

The clinical trials are usually run at the adjoining hospital sponsored by the drugs companies ie human trials

You show yourself up once agaain that you have no knowledge of the industry and completely miss the point - have you a education?

Edited May 17, 2007 by Prakanong

[TokyoT]

sure ,

right after I get one more substantial than the avatar .....................

enjoy you life working for the man M-F to earn the $'s to buy the goods you produced last week on Sat ,

everyone knows Christians rest on Sun ,

and repeat the process from Mon next ..........................

Ah, if only my life were that simple, but alas it is not – plus I’m not a Christian.

The simple life, workn’ for the man M-F, roof over me head, cloths on me back, food in me tummy…No worries...

[nick2k]

the big biotech firms in the west spend millions, if not BILLIONS to develop/invent the new drugs that help mankind. if it wasn't for these companies, the drugs that they invent wouldn't be there for everybody to take advantage of.

and then you get these guys saying that these inventors are evil? greedy? capitalistic swine?

there is a word for people like you - stupid.

[TokyoT]

Editorial from Asia Times on Line

EDITORIAL

Big Pharma wants to help you. RIP

If big Pharama really wanted to help everyone RIP they would simply close their doors.

The system is a cycle (like it or not); research, clinical trials, approvals, manufacture, distribute to Kuhn-Boripat. Too bad those greedy pigs expect someone to pay for all those steps from research thru the point it reaches Kuhn Boripat. Someone has to pay the bills why put the blame at the feet of the drug companies? The Thai government could easily pony up and pay for these drugs.

Oh, yea let’s blame the drug companies because they make big profits, nasty habit that profit making stuff. Real shame businesses expected to make a profit – ya really think that there would be so many companies and so many people involved in the biotech industry if there was no money to be made?

Another glaring fact is that the developed world makes economic decisions all the time in regard to not giving aid to the developing world – and people die because of it. This is not likely to change anytime soon. Khun Boripat wants his aids drugs, the starving people of the world want food, babies all over the globe need immunizations, thousands in Africa die every year from malaria, throw in the thousands effected by TB and the list goes on.

Not just poor people in the underdeveloped world that suffers either, plenty of people dieing in The U. S. of A because they can not afford access to the more expensive drugs or medical care.

Simple fact is in the end someone has to pay the bills. Even NGO's and foundations are getting their money from donations from other people's profits.

[highdiver]

Editorial from Asia Times on Line

EDITORIAL

Big Pharma wants to help you. RIP

If big Pharama really wanted to help everyone RIP they would simply close their doors.

The system is a cycle (like it or not); research, clinical trials, approvals, manufacture, distribute to Kuhn-Boripat. Too bad those greedy pigs expect someone to pay for all those steps from research thru the point it reaches Kuhn Boripat. Someone has to pay the bills why put the blame at the feet of the drug companies? The Thai government could easily pony up and pay for these drugs.

Oh, yea let’s blame the drug companies because they make big profits, nasty habit that profit making stuff. Real shame businesses expected to make a profit – ya really think that there would be so many companies and so many people involved in the biotech industry if there was no money to be made?

Another glaring fact is that the developed world makes economic decisions all the time in regard to not giving aid to the developing world – and people die because of it. This is not likely to change anytime soon. Khun Boripat wants his aids drugs, the starving people of the world want food, babies all over the globe need immunizations, thousands in Africa die every year from malaria, throw in the thousands effected by TB and the list goes on.

Not just poor people in the underdeveloped world that suffers either, plenty of people dieing in The U. S. of A because they can not afford access to the more expensive drugs or medical care.

Simple fact is in the end someone has to pay the bills. Even NGO's and foundations are getting their money from donations from other people's profits.

to answer both your posts.

1. if you want to have a big yacht like Mid then become a drug companies executive.. they make millions.

2. your theory about R&D and the cycle of developing a drug is correct its the bills part that you got wrong.

most drug companies run about 15-20% R&D expenses. production costs of 10-15%,they use nearly 40% for what they call "administration and marketing. the reaminig profit ranges from 15-27% profit...

So the drug companies are not just "human loving " scientists in white jackets trying to cure the world. they are making a killer profit. buy ripping patients off. and since the own the patent for the drug you have a choice buy or die.

I would like to recomend to you to look at the following and see a diferent view of how those drug companies opperate.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/qa/2004/09/09_401.html

[Plus]

Do you remember that the drug in question was developed with US government's money?

[endure]

Do you remember that the drug in question was developed with US government's money?

I don't want to get into the Pharma argument (there's enough of you doing that already ) but I'd heard that anything produced using US goverment money was in the public domain. Is this true?

[Plus]

I don't know, wikipedia states:

Ritonavir is manufactured as Norvir® by Abbott Laboratories. Research that led to the drug's development was financed in part by a $3,500,000 federal grant through the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

Kaletra is a combination of Ritonavir and Lopinavir

[Mid]

the big biotech firms in the west spend millions, if not BILLIONS to develop/invent the new drugs

wot a pile of horse manure .................

they won't touch anything with a 10 foot barge pole until the profitability study is done ,

long after the initial discovery / development work is done ,

the majority of these drugs start life under a government grant or private foundation grant .

[Prakanong]

Do you remember that the drug in question was developed with US government's money?

I don't want to get into the Pharma argument (there's enough of you doing that already ) but I'd heard that anything produced using US goverment money was in the public domain. Is this true?

No not neccesarily - an institution such as a Uni or even NIH can do the initial discovery say - they do not have the means either money nor resources to get it through development ie clinical trials

They can then license the compound out to the highest bidder and receive royalties if the drug gets to market. Risk is taken on by the pharma company as only about 1 in 10 make it through clinical trials

Smaller pharma also do this and even medium size pharma license drugs to others if they do not have the infrastructure

That was a simplistic explanation but its the gist of it - some Uni's are raking it in

This does not apply just to the drug industry though but almost anything where research is done ie electronics. IT etc etc