Entertainment tourism: Pattaya for Europeans is over - 30% down this year, official

[Millcx]

6 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

wow. so much truth in one article. amazing.

 

 

Makes a change for the drivel that’s is thrown out .... The Thai Baht needs to be devalued and needs to be done seriously fast ... It then needs global recognition that you get more for your pound ... The tourism and entertainment industry won’t get away with raising prices when things are slow .... We are all wise to it .... Baht needs to be coming in over 50 to the GBP if they want to stop a major crash

[BimBoon]

I went once many years ago and an absolute terrible place. Can't imagine why anyone would visit in the first place. 

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Millcx said:

Makes a change for the drivel that’s is thrown out .... The Thai Baht needs to be devalued and needs to be done seriously fast ... It then needs global recognition that you get more for your pound ... The tourism and entertainment industry won’t get away with raising prices when things are slow .... We are all wise to it .... Baht needs to be coming in over 50 to the GBP if they want to stop a major crash

And how is the baht devalued?  List the steps please.  

[murraynz]

4 hours ago, shackleton said:

when I first came to Pattaya in the 80s  lots of the guys worked in the middle east so partying  was the name of the game 

now fast forward to 2019  the strong Baht  other currencies depreciating  plus more Chinese and Indians arriving 

not known as big spenders in the bars ect

all that's left is the retired expats talking about the good old days watching their pension incomes get lower and no doubt will get worse if Brits Brexit ?

i actualy live in pattaya area, so i can report on what i actualy see or hear---not just adding to the 'myths 'about pattaya..

 

it IS  actualy quieter than normal, i often go to bars where there are only one or two customers..

many of the dancing girls are realy struggling, seldom achieving their drink quotas, which then reduces their salary.. 

i'm sure that more men drink by themselves,than before{less money to spend].

the chinese visitors seem to be down, more indians, but these types of people seldom visit the bars, spend very little..

[ThomasThBKK]

Just now, Millcx said:

Makes a change for the drivel that’s is thrown out .... The Thai Baht needs to be devalued and needs to be done seriously fast ... It then needs global recognition that you get more for your pound ... The tourism and entertainment industry won’t get away with raising prices when things are slow .... We are all wise to it .... Baht needs to be coming in over 50 to the GBP if they want to stop a major crash

 

I don't know if they would even need to do that, if they get rid of the bullshit taxes on everything that's prolly good enough.400% on french wine, same shit on imported beer, steaks etc... that would suddenly make Thailand very very competing.

 

The 20% the baht is up is not as bad as the 400% fantasy taxes they charge on imports imo.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

I don't know if they would even need to do that, if they get rid of the bullshit taxes on everything that's prolly good enough.400% on french wine, same shit on imported beer, steaks etc... that would suddenly make Thailand very very competing.

 

The 20% the baht is up is not as bad as the 400% fantasy taxes they charge on imports imo.

How much is the tax on Australian wines?  What is the difference between the price of cigarettes here and in the West?  What is the difference in the price for beautiful companionship here and the UK or Australia?  How much does a taxi cost in London?  

[murraynz]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Pattaya only ever had sex to offer, the beach is dirty and the sea is disgusting.

Da Nang has no sex on offer, the beach is beautiful and the sea is clean.

 

Nha trang is much nicer, also more to do there...

[ThomasThBKK]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

How much is the tax on Australian wines?  

280% i think

 

 

EDIT: Yes, but 290%: https://silklegal.com/importing-alcohol-to-thailand/ 

 

Quote

USA, France, Italy, Chile and other countries under WTO agreement	54%	390.46%
Australia	24%	294.92%
New Zealand	18%	275.81%

 

 

It's basically price * Tarif * Excise Tax * Municipal Tax * Health tax * VAT... import duty as a multiplier basically, pricing out every foreign wine. Clever... Add logististics, shipping costs etc 

 

 

 

[zhangxifu]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Thaivisa notes that many in Pattaya have said that Chinese travelers are not great supporters of the entertainment industry especially its beer bars and clubs. Many are just there to look and some doubt whether Indians have the spending power to make a difference. 

Does this mean that the thaivisa members are there definitely to touch as well? And no sharing.

[30la]

It is not yesterday that Thailand is losing European tourists, for years now this trend has been materializing.
European tourists are allergic to many things here, Thai / Farangs prices, pirates (taxi drivers) who are constantly trying to cheat, exorbitant prices for dinners like Christmas and New Year, very expensive 5-star hotels with very little service and constant disturbance of itinerant viewers, massages shops, tailors.
These are some of the reasons, don't change anything because you don't care about the European tourist!

[hottrader77]

6 hours ago, BestB said:

Look on the bright side , Thailand is finally on the right tracks to salvation.

 

TAT admits tourist numbers are down

 

BOT admits economy is in bad shape 

 

Pattaya admits all local businesses are suffering which mind you must be total shock to our local Thai visa experts who always claim how busy it really is 

 

TOT cuts phone lines and taking a month to fix it .

 

So perhaps not all that bad, something positive is coming out from all of it????????

 

The only positive for me coming out of it as a uk national is that my future trips and long stays will be in the Philippines no longer in Thailand as its them that are more accommodating . friendly , better exchange rate , and people not just wanting your money , also they don't harass a tourist with visa changes every month , the best bet for Thailand is to devalue the thai baht instead of getting 40 baht to the pound and dropping , the uk pound should should be 80 baht to the pound I base this on 15 years ago I was getting 70 to the pound so 15 years later this with prices going up etc should now be 80 baht to pound then I can take 2 girls for 25 pounds instead of it costing me 50 pounds excessive rip off

[eddysmit]

6 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Pattaya as we know it does indeed seem to be dying. Aside from issues mentioned in the post above, is that Pattaya was popular with Europeans, Australians and Americans because it was the city of sin. Attempts to make it a clean family resort are doomed to failure given only a fool would swim in its filthy waters, and the strategy makes other places far more appealing.

Take away the adult night life(that made Pattaya attractive for millions of visitors and long stayers,either just to look or partake over the years) what do you have left,a dirty beach  you cannot take a stroll along on your own after dark and a load of shops,nice shops it must be said, all the shops can be seen in many other places with far superior beaches,only cheaper.

[ScotBkk]

6 hours ago, dyertribe said:

What he didn't state in the article are some of the other factors for the decline such as dual pricing, scams and just ripping off the tourists in general.

 

People will only take that crap for so long before ... so long.

Totally agree.

Let's be honest this den of iniquity has always been a shithole for sex-pats and dregs of society. Vietnam has now set the presidence gaining all the time on Thailand where it's cleaner, safer, cheaper and scamming limited down to severe retribution if anyone is caught. Thailand is no longer that cheap Paradise and exports are screwed by the strong Baht. The place is dying on its feet and visas etc are a nightmare in certain instances. Dengue fever is also a put off. I now live on a beautiful island and live is so much easier and only visit Thailand for business now.......  

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

280% i think

The Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement provides Australian wine producers with preferential treatment (with a zero tariff) over other wine exporting counties (with the exception of Chile which has an FTA and New Zealand which has 0 per cent through its Closer Economic Partnership with Thailand). Wine from almost all other countries are subject to a 54 per cent import duty (Source: DFAT, Key Outcomes of the Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement, March 2015) .

This benefit to Australian wine exporters multiplies after the application of Thailand’s heavy and complex alcohol excise and VAT tax regime – to where Australian wines (over 1,000 baht) can be around 65 per cent cheaper than wines from other countries (the exception Chile and New Zealand) when the same mark-up is applied. (Source: Austrade calculations)

https://www.austrade.gov.au/Australian/Export/Export-markets/Countries/Thailand/Industries/Wine

 

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, Beggar said:

They have things like YouPorn. No lady drinks, no sick ladies or buffaloes and no bar noise.

Yet, many continue to send their daughters to work at jobs that somehow produce 10-20,000 baht a month, for the family, plus a nice lifestyle for the daughter. All this with no particular set of skills or a degree.  I do not buy the innocent parent excuse for a nanosecond. 

 

Few Thais are bothered about the industry. It is all about the toxic army, with a false sense of Puritanism and an obsession with a nationalist agenda, with absolutely nothing to back it up.

 

It is all so fake it boggles the mind. 

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Yet, many continue to send their daughters to work at jobs that somehow produce 10-20,000 baht a month, for the family, plus a nice lifestyle for the daughter. All this with no particular set of skills or a degree.  I do not buy the innocent parent excuse for a nanosecond. 

 

Few Thais are bothered about the industry. It is all about the toxic army, with a false sense of Puritanism and an obsession with a nationalist agenda, with absolutely nothing to back it up.

 

It is all so fake it boggles the mind. 

Only 10% of the pay for play industry is for foreigners.  Why should Thai people be upset? It is their cottage industry and helps to stem the aging population in South East Asia.  

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

With regard to rich people being canny with their cash, what's your take on Dyson buying the $54 million dollar flat in Singapore then?

There are rich and then there are ultra rich. The ultra rich spend money like water and many are very foolish with their money. How about the Porsche owners here? They pay $275,000 to $500,000 for a car that is about $125,000 in the US. Doing that would make me feel like a fool. Or how about the art collectors who buy at auction, and pay more money than anyone in history has even paid for that artists work. Again, I would feel like a fool. It is about the acquisition of a trophy. 

 

Unlike some of the ultra rich, most wealthy people are smart with their money. 

[dastott]

Are there any places close to Pattaya/Jomtien that do have clean sea and nice beaches?

[brewsterbudgen]

I went once many years ago and an absolute terrible place. Can't imagine why anyone would visit in the first place. 

Most go for the easy availability of girls.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[ThomasThBKK]

13 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement provides Australian wine producers with preferential treatment (with a zero tariff) over other wine exporting counties (with the exception of Chile which has an FTA and New Zealand which has 0 per cent through its Closer Economic Partnership with Thailand). Wine from almost all other countries are subject to a 54 per cent import duty (Source: DFAT, Key Outcomes of the Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement, March 2015) .

This benefit to Australian wine exporters multiplies after the application of Thailand’s heavy and complex alcohol excise and VAT tax regime – to where Australian wines (over 1,000 baht) can be around 65 per cent cheaper than wines from other countries (the exception Chile and New Zealand) when the same mark-up is applied. (Source: Austrade calculations)

https://www.austrade.gov.au/Australian/Export/Export-markets/Countries/Thailand/Industries/Wine

 

Thailand cheated around that with excise tax: https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2017/09/thailand-tax-increase-hits-wine-hard/

 

To quote your own link: 

Quote

In addition to import tariffs, imported wines are subject to other duties, fees and taxes:

• Surcharge / Special duty (US$ 10 per import lot)
• Customs Fee US$ 50
• Alcohol Excise tax: the rate is  Baht 1,500 per litre of alcoholic content for a wine bottle not exceeding  Baht 1,000 (retail). Wine priced higher than  Baht 1,000 (at retail) will be taxed at 10 per cent of its price and  Baht 1,500 per liter of alcoholic content.
• Municipal / interior tax: 10 per cent
• Health support project: 2 per cent, based on CIF/FOB value
• Public broadcasting subsidy: 2 per cent
• from January 2018 – Elderly foundation tax: 1.5 per cent
• Value added tax (VAT): 7 per cent, based on retail price

 

Only some of those get levied on Thai wines, et voila nothing changed. The only thing that changed is Australia having an advantage over California, France, Germany and co.

[cedel]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It is easy to blame the strong baht. And it is definitely a factor. But, there are so many other factors. The army, Prayuth, and the biggest joke spent five years sabotaging Western tourism. Now, the damage can be felt, and people are worried. Millions of jobs are at stake.

 

Same applies to ex-pats. Many are leaving, or have left. Not feeling welcome?

 

Also, the unwillingness to tackle the scams, the traffic and public safety issues, the environmental issues, and so many other causes, are all having an impact on tourism. The decision to turn away from Western tourism, and focus almost exclusively on Chinese and Indian tourism was a mistake of historically monumental proportions. The TAT is barely making any effort to lure Westerners. And in my opinion they are the big spenders. I read surveys about the average Chinese tourists, being at the top of the list of big spenders. But, this is average. And the big spending Chinese do not come to Thailand for a dozen different reasons. The wife wants to buy a luxury handbag. The same Gucci bag that she likes is $3,500 in Singapore, London, New York, Paris, Hong Kong, or Dubai. In Bangkok that bag sells for $9,000. At a five star hotel, this same wealthy Chinese couple want a great bottle of wine. They see a good vintage of Domaine Coche-Dury Monthelie, which would sell for about $500 retail, at a five star in any of the above cities for $1,000 on the list. Same bottle, if it was available (highly unlikely) in Bangkok, would be 95,000 baht, or more. Wealthy people tend to be smart with their money. They simply will not pay stupid money for stuff. The luxury taxes have been discouraging high end tourism here for decades. It is policy that is so dumb, so shortsighted, so non-visionary, and it hurts the economy. If wine duty was 100%, you would have a thriving wine industry here, five to ten times the size of the current industry. So the state income would be made up on volume, and hundreds of thousands of jobs would be generated. This is simply another example of brain dead leaders, who have no vision, and are NOT leading the nation forward, are not helping the nation to progress, and are not benefitting the people of Thailand.

 

I was recently with a group of friends, and we wanted to order a bottle of wine, at of one of those high end restaurants in the EmQuartier complex. It was Bella Rocca Restaurant. I asked about a 2011 Chianti they had on the list. I was told they were out of stock. I asked about a Barbaresco, at 2,600 baht. Again, out of stock. How about this Nebbiolo? Do you have the 2010, as stated on the list? No, we only have the 2015. OK, what is that wine like? Is it drinking well now? I do not know. Is there anyone here that is familiar with this wine list? No. Sorry sir. Wait a minute. You have 100s of bottles on this list, ranging from 1200 baht to 10,000 baht per bottle, and NOBODY who works here knows anything about the wine? Are you serious? We all just looked at each other, and got up and walked out. We realized the restaurant was a pretender. And more than likely the food was marginal at best. It was all dressed up to look like a very nice Italian restaurant. But, it appeared to be only window dressing. High end tourists have little patience for that lack of quality and lack of service. They can get far better service in many other nations, without the onerous taxes on luxury goods like foreign wine!

 

Hopefully, we will eventually see a correction in the Thai baht. Although I feel for those in the hotel industry, lower rates over the long haul sure works for me! It may be the one area where we do not see inflation rearing it's ugly head!

This is soooo true ! I entirely and totally agree !!!

[johnarth]

6 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Sex tourism is not something the new generation is so keen on anywhere.

true it is much easier to get it for nothing at home now

[JEM53]

Not so many year ago Pattaya arranged different kinds of festivals at least 1-2 times each month. Occasionally "only" a beach food vendor estrada - better than nothing.

Since then this has vanished and I think may be now 6 per year.

Today Pattaya also offer quite a lot more tourist attractions which is a positive thing.

Europeans today suffer from bad exchange rate, domestic flight travel taxation, negative media posts from journalists with an agenda and the fact many ex flight travelers suffer from climate panic depression.

Utapao air port should help in the long run if European countries start charter flights (will they), but I do not see how the EEC corridor will help attract tourists.

[Thaifriends]

Asians now have more money to spend with limited vacation days. This is ground reality. How many young Europeans could be seen in a 5 star hotel? Mainly retired people with large savings. 

Now most of the 3, 4 & 5 star are with wealthy Asians and at the breakfast table the proportion is very clear.

 

So dont worry be happy????

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Thailand cheated around that with excise tax: https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2017/09/thailand-tax-increase-hits-wine-hard/

 

To quote your own link: 

 

Only some of those get levied on Thai wines, et voila nothing changed. The only thing that changed is Australia having an advantage over California, France, Germany and co.

You said 280% tax on Australian wines.  With all the taxes and excises and everything you are still about 220% high.  

[Peterbkk99]

I was in Pattaya last week and it was dead (except for Indian tourists).

Pattaya got what it deserved after years of greed, corruption, laziness and mismanagement. 

"Just as surely as you breath, you'll get back what you put out. We may avoid the laws of the man, but there are greater laws that cannot be broken" - Earl Nightingale

 

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, johnarth said:

true it is much easier to get it for nothing at home now

I'm in my 70's.  Do you think I spend much time in the sack at home with knockout 20 year old's?

[Isaanbiker]

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Bar Fines are up (a friend familiar with the matter tell's me) and that means farangs are down (figuratively and sexually).

Of course a friend...????

[Isaan sailor]

Too cozy with the ChiComs—and that’s what happens...

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Peterbkk99 said:

I was in Pattaya last week and it was dead (except for Indian tourists).

Pattaya got what it deserved after years of greed, corruption, laziness and mismanagement. 

"Just as surely as you breath, you'll get back what you put out. We may avoid the laws of the man, but there are greater laws that cannot be broken" - Earl Nightingale

If Karma had any validity do you think Trump would have made it to 70 years of age?