Entertainment tourism: Pattaya for Europeans is over - 30% down this year, official

[nev]

What do they expect limiting the amount of visa's the tourist who flocked to Pattaya use to stay there and refusing entry for to many stamps, For many years I used to work two months then a month Pattaya around 4 visits per year I would be hard pressed to achieve that now.

[Traubert]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree with much you say except about the wine. Anyone that would come to Thailand just because wine is cheaper isn't going to give a satang to the poor Thais that used to make a good living in Pattaya, and they are the vast majority of Thais in Pattaya. With the exception of the poor Thais that clean their hotel toilets and open the front doors, and that isn't many, nor do they get paid well.

Very true.

 

The Chinese have no wine palate at all. There was little variety except cheap French on offer as recently as 15 years ago. Their drink of choice is still bai jiu (rice wine) which is definitely an acquired taste and in my opinion, quite vile, even the top end stuff.

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

I am not talking about wealthy tourists coming here because wine is cheaper. I am talking about wealthy tourists not avoiding Thailand, because a great bottle of wine is some of the most expensive in the world! That is a very big distinction. Wealthy travelers are very discriminating, and though they are willing to spend alot of money, they do not like throwing their money away. Buying fine wine in Thailand, is like throwing your money away. The duties are onerous and excessive.

Luxury visitors want luxury services.. While they may be a little price insensitive, they need the package. 

 

Thailand struggles to provide genuine luxury in any any sphere.. Sure there may be a bubble of well packaged luxury in a single resort, but then when they have to move them from that resort, to the yacht, they need to expose them to the deathrace 2000 of the roads, or through the immigration systems of the airport.. Greating a genuinely 5 star experience all these things must be seamless. 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I am not talking about wealthy tourists coming here because wine is cheaper. I am talking about wealthy tourists not avoiding Thailand, because a great bottle of wine is some of the most expensive in the world! That is a very big distinction. Wealthy travelers are very discriminating, and though they are willing to spend alot of money, they do not like throwing their money away. Buying fine wine in Thailand, is like throwing your money away. The duties are onerous and excessive.

Wealthy tourists, IMO are not going to come to Thailand anyway, regardless of the price of wine.

Why would they come to a corrupt, dirty place with filthy beaches, and polluted cities, when they can go to places like the Maldives, Singapore or Dubai? IMO Thailand isn't even an option for the really wealthy.

[chrisandsu]

28 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Americans and Europeans have plenty of money, but what we also have are plenty of ALTERNATIVES with better value for money.

I can just fly from germany to turkish 5 star resorts with my ID CARD only - without using a passport. I can do the same in Egypt and co.

 

These countries make it all easier for me to spend my money there, in return they get more and more europeans tourists. 

Thailand makes it harder and expects the same.

There's so much alternatives in europe alone, there the canary islands, croatia, greece, the black sea, spain, italy...turkey, egypt and co are like 4 hours away per plane or even less.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/311580/outbound-travel-from-the-us-to-europe-by-destination/

 

There's 40 mio Americans visiting Europe each year, these must be the ones who are too poor for Thailand - or they just have more things to see in Europe and a better time.

The other way around it's the same, twice the amount of germans and 4x the amount of brits are going to the US each year - must be the cheap prices.

 

Why do you think Americans are now going to Europe in record numbers ? It’s super cheap ! I live in America ,my flights to England used to be $1300 return . They are now $445 direct ! That’s from the west coast . It’s cheaper for me to fly to London then it is to fly to Michigan (not that I want to go there) also it used to be $2 to the £ it is now 1.35 or there abouts so I get way more value for my money then I used to . That would also be the same for the euro . Your currencies in Thailand have been weakened so much that you are now getting 50% less then what you used to get but has the standards gone up that much ? Nooooooo they have actually lowered considerably . 

[Orton Rd]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I thought these days they call it online dating (for an hour or two).

You don't have to go all the way to Pattaya for that- progress

[Small Joke]

I was there at Songkran, it was a cautious return after swearing off it for over a decade due to shitty local attitudes, and the Russian boor invasion.

 

A farang bar manager said it was his worst Songkran ever.

 

I thought the first afternoon of the watersports in Soi 6 would be fun.

 

It was of course, but the bar I was in, chosen for having one of the top rated online reviews, had literally myself and two other geezers all afternoon.

 

They were glued to their phones.

 

But at least the girls left us in peace, distracted by playing their splashy nonsense at the door, and getting their house drinks for free.

 

On the beachfront that weekend, mostly poorer Thai/Burmese picnics, and scores of Indian guys, and a few obvious local sexypats.

 

The Soi Bukaow area, a few more white guys, but by and large, two maybe three heads in a few bars, some sexypat places had more, but then again, these are local guys, the bar zone between Bukaow and the Central Festival Mall seemed to have only bargirls farang hubby's as the sole customer in many.

 

I did enjoy the floor shows upstairs at Windmill and Kink but it looks like they're not going to last since the brownshirts were reshuffled.

 

I'm pretty sure my hotel in Soi 8 was not even a third full. Given the traffic in the lobby and lift.

 

But, it was nice not to have it being completely insane, the only visit I ever really enjoyed in the last twenty years since I first had a look.

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Wealthy tourists, IMO are not going to come to Thailand anyway, regardless of the price of wine.

Why would they come to a corrupt, dirty place with filthy beaches, and polluted cities, when they can go to places like the Maldives, Singapore or Dubai? IMO Thailand isn't even an option for the really wealthy.

That has been the case for a long time now. A decade ago, I used to have some wealthy friends who would come and visit. They would spend $1,000 a night on their rooms, and indulge in everything. One guy told me he averaged $75,000 for a ten day trip with his wife and two kids. They did this twice a year. It did not matter. He made over $10 million a year, and it was necessary R & R. They never returned to Thailand. Most do not. So, you are correct. Thailand simply cannot attract that caliber of tourism. The service is not there. 

[thaibeachlovers]

The real question, is what the authorities are going to do about it?

Are they going to admit they got it wrong? 5555555555555555555

 

They <deleted> when they tried to make Pattaya upmarket, and only ended up with a load of derelict eye sores. There was never any actual hope that they would end up with "the Riviera of Thailand" no matter how many huge shopping malls or 5 star hotels were built there.

Pattaya is just too corrupt, too overbuilt, too entrenched, too much awful infrastructure to ever become up market. One just has to look at how they can't even stop flooding in a city beside the sea to see how incompetent and useless they are. They have built loads of big projects, but none of them are any good. Marina 555555555555555555, car park 55555555555555555555, big building in the wrong place 5555555555555555555555, walkway that collapses regularly 55555555555555555555555.

In short, Pattaya 555555555555555555555555.

 

 

[spidermike007]

8 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Why do you think Americans are now going to Europe in record numbers ? It’s super cheap ! I live in America ,my flights to England used to be $1300 return . They are now $445 direct ! That’s from the west coast . It’s cheaper for me to fly to London then it is to fly to Michigan (not that I want to go there) also it used to be $2 to the £ it is now 1.35 or there abouts so I get way more value for my money then I used to . That would also be the same for the euro . Your currencies in Thailand have been weakened so much that you are now getting 50% less then what you used to get but has the standards gone up that much ? Nooooooo they have actually lowered considerably . 

 

This is all correct. And while many nations, including many of Thailand's neighbors have been working very hard to improve the standards, make things easier for tourists, and ex-pats, make public and traffic safety a priority, train the police properly, and improve the lives of the locals, Thailand has been doing the exact opposite, and in reality the nation is moving backwards, at an astonishing, and breath taking pace. 

 

My heart goes out to the Thai people. They deserve better. And I believe one day the youth will rise up and demand better. What they have now in terms of leadership, is so subpar, so inferior, so inadequate, it boggles the mind. 

 

[BestB]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

The real question, is what the authorities are going to do about it?

Are they going to admit they got it wrong? 5555555555555555555

 

They <deleted> when they tried to make Pattaya upmarket, and only ended up with a load of derelict eye sores. There was never any actual hope that they would end up with "the Riviera of Thailand" no matter how many huge shopping malls or 5 star hotels were built there.

Pattaya is just too corrupt, too overbuilt, too entrenched, too much awful infrastructure to ever become up market. One just has to look at how they can't even stop flooding in a city beside the sea to see how incompetent and useless they are. They have built loads of big projects, but none of them are any good. Marina 555555555555555555, car park 55555555555555555555, big building in the wrong place 5555555555555555555555, walkway that collapses regularly 55555555555555555555555.

In short, Pattaya 555555555555555555555555.

 

 

What they going to do? Well first they will do a few more raids , once they completely killed it and made sure she is no longer breather THEN they will invest 25-30 million DOLLARS on brainstorming how to revive it 

[thaibeachlovers]

PS. I loved Pattaya, the way it was in the 90s, but something went horribly wrong, and I can't see how Humpty can ever be put back together.

[toofarnorth]

2 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

so if I go to Pattaya right now will I be the only white guy?

 

Holy clap NCC1701A , you are white ?

[adammike]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Sex tourism is not something the new generation is so keen on anywhere.

And they have the been there done that as far as Thailand is concerned, rapes and deaths on the Islands must have an affect sort of puts the whinges over dual pricing and bar fines in perspective.South America and Vietnam are today's destinations.

[fhickson]

the question is where is everybody going now? likely not vietnam or cambodia

[NCC1701A]

3 minutes ago, fhickson said:

the question is where is everybody going now? likely not vietnam or cambodia

my house. for the big pool party.

 

(construction of the pool starts 4th quarter 2019.)

[potless]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

PS. I loved Pattaya, the way it was in the 90s, but something went horribly wrong, and I can't see how Humpty can ever be put back together.

For western visitors, Pattaya peaked some years ago. My friend in Phuket says the same has happened there. How about Hua Hin?

[Beggar]

35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There are many, many places in Thailand for those that don't like the bar scene to visit, most of which are far nicer. Far as I'm concerned, those that don't like the bar scene can all go there instead of trying to change Pattaya to their druthers. Sadly, it's probably too late to save the Pattaya nite scene, so all visitors are going to end up with is a dirty, congested stink hole with a filthy beach and toxic water, rife with corruption and price gouging.

But on the positive side without sex tourists and their infrastructure ???? But I am afraid this will not happen. So don't worry. There is too much money involved I guess. 

[thequietman]

Wait for it, wait for itttttttt !

 

3, 2, 1 ...................... everyone put your prices up!

 

That's business .............Thai Style. ????

[thequietman]

4 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

my house. for the big pool party.

 

(construction of the pool starts 4th quarter 2019.)

It's a dish, isn't it?  ????

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, thequietman said:

Wait for it, wait for itttttttt !

 

3, 2, 1 ...................... everyone put your prices up!

 

That's business .............Thai Style. ????

Only a Thai Visa myth.  Actually the prices go down.  Can't discuss it though because we can't discuss the specifics of **********. 

[Small Joke]

55 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Tell me about it! In my chosen field in the oil patch, crew changes were opportunities for men to behave like Vikings. Nowadays, the guys (and now girls) I supervise are more into finding the best caramel frappuccino east of Wapping and FB'ing, Twittering and Snapchatting about it. I was put on report by one of these oik's for ordering a glass of wine with my dinner the night before crew change. I should have skipped the hotel restaurant and gone to the bloody whorehouse instead!

They're embittered against working class and middle class boomers, when it's governments that were around when they were already teens that did them in with 'Austerity'.

 

Those governments did us no favours either, that's why many boomers left home countries.

 

They think we're all smug millionaires. 

 

Nobody gave me a leg up! I washed dishes and lived in a shared bedsit  in London at one point, I remember my worst day, buying a single saveloy sausage for dinner, that was all the money I had in the world before I got my dish washing gig next day!

 

They need to get off our backs and take on their mates like Zuckerberg, who are screwing up their world, or at least, doing nothing with their billions to help get rid of the total <deleted> in power now.

 

Also, they'll backstab you out of envy, and orwellian spite, they want your job without the time put in.

 

I try to walk a mile in their moccasins, but I just get generic abuse, so let them suck it up, or make their own way out the gutter, like I did.

 

Also, I was a self righteous little cuck in my 20s sneering how I'd never pay for it! 

 

Wait till they get knifed by a few sweet little girls on their way through life, they'll soon be signing the sexypat blues! ;-) 

[NCC1701A]

6 minutes ago, potless said:

For western visitors, Pattaya peaked some years ago. My friend in Phuket says the same has happened there. How about Hua Hin?

Hua Hin is still on the rise with tourists because this is a chick flick, couples, families and HiSo destination.

Very little red light here and the girls are the same ones you met in the 80s and 90s.

[ThomasThBKK]

32 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Why do you think Americans are now going to Europe in record numbers ? It’s super cheap ! I live in America ,my flights to England used to be $1300 return . They are now $445 direct ! That’s from the west coast . It’s cheaper for me to fly to London then it is to fly to Michigan (not that I want to go there) also it used to be $2 to the £ it is now 1.35 or there abouts so I get way more value for my money then I used to . That would also be the same for the euro . Your currencies in Thailand have been weakened so much that you are now getting 50% less then what you used to get but has the standards gone up that much ? Nooooooo they have actually lowered considerably . 

 

That's what i said.

It's about value for money - it's not because you are suddenly too poor for Pattaya. But you get way better stuff for the same in greece and co. including daily flights.

 

My currency? I earn USD, couldn't care less about the EUR. 

 

But europeans also come in record numbers to the US, Turkey and the USA are the most sought after holiday destinations outside of Europe.

The US is expensive but you get to see a lot for that, and you have all the same ammenities Europeans like - Californian wine and a good USD Prime Steak is cheaper in the US than here.

 

Turkey and Egypt have the same kind of beaches Thailand has, as good for diving and snorkeling so there's no reason anymore to spend twice the amount of money on a flight to Thailand just to get scammed here.

 

 

[thequietman]

3 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Yes yes.. everyone goes to Pattaya for the festivals !!! Its the new 'golf'.. 

That's true.

 

Getting a 'Hole in one' doesn't seem to be an issue there! ????

[adammike]

2 hours ago, LongTang said:

Som-Nam-Na !

 

This is what you get for treating western foreigners like dirty criminals !

They take all your fingerprints and a facial recognition photo, force you to report on your every move, publicly expose you on national media for being drunk or on a 2 day overstay, double charge you on about anything, And then expect you to come here and spend your money on some carefree good time??? right..

 

And treating foreign criminals as honoured guests,police searching tourists on the streets of Bangkok....

[Traubert]

12 minutes ago, fhickson said:

the question is where is everybody going now? likely not vietnam or cambodia

Not in the numbers that are often cited here.

 

Tourist arrivals in Vietnam edged up 0.2 percent year-on-year to 1.19 million in June 2019 from 1.18 million in the same month a year earlier. Visitors increased from Europe (2.3 percent), namely from Russia (3.7 percent), Germany (6.9 percent), and the Netherlands (9.3 percent); America (7.4 percent), mostly from the US (8.3 percent). (Wiki)

[potless]

9 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

Very little red light here and the girls are the same ones you met in the 80s and 90s.

I dont mind older women although at my age most of them are on respirators. Maybe an influx of unemployed entertainment workers from here will be heading your way soon. I'll spread the word about your pool party. 

[adammike]

2 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Not in the numbers that are often cited here.

 

Tourist arrivals in Vietnam edged up 0.2 percent year-on-year to 1.19 million in June 2019 from 1.18 million in the same month a year earlier. Visitors increased from Europe (2.3 percent), namely from Russia (3.7 percent), Germany (6.9 percent), and the Netherlands (9.3 percent); America (7.4 percent), mostly from the US (8.3 percent). (Wiki)

Anecdotally I hear a lot of people want to visit Vietnam like they used to want to come to Thailand.This coming Dec/Jan/Feb will sort it out one way or another.

[spidermike007]

Just now, Kim J said:

I have said this for a number of years. Thai's have been quick to catch on with charging western level prices for many things targetted at tourists yet the service and quality is still third world.

Despite having mass tourism here for decades, the authorities, businesses and individuals alike are unbelievably naive and still have no idea what the "quality tourists" they so desire want from their holiday. They simply see them as something to be exploited financially, but now they are maybe beginning to find out that many farrang are not quite as stupid as they thought.

Singapore is certainly not a cheap destination, but they have got it right they charge the prices but provide the service and quality to go with it. The example you state here also highlights another failing in Thailand's insular ways. In such a restaurant in Singapore they would most likely have a foreign worker (or at least a properly trained local) who has in depth knowledge of the products they are selling, something of course that will never happen here, because somchai always knows best.

Well, I think you can conclude, with near certainty, that Somchai does NOT know his wine. In all the years of being in Thailand, on only one occasion, at a five star hotel, did I run into a bartender who knew something about the wines he was serving. I actually had an intelligent exchange with him, about a Spanish wine on the menu, that we ordered a bottle of. I was utterly shocked, and very pleased.