Combat school ED visas rejected in Hanoi

[Bill97]

If you have been out of the US for a period of time (not sure 1 to 1 1/2 years) you are no longer subject to US taxes if you income source was strictly foreign sources. If your money came via US investments that's another story. 

Well if you are talking about foreign EARNED income say so. By saying foreign source you are wrong.


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[Date Masamune]

3 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

Your listening to the wrong channel or people then. NO ONE gives up a US passport. It seems you no nothing about US tax law. 

Ludicrous. Eduardo Saverin, Boris Johnson, Prince Albert of Monaco, TS Eliot?  As previously noted you know are suffering some fundamental misunderstanding of US tax code. I wont link to the Guardian but Boris and 5,410 people renounced US citizenship in 2016. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Date Masamune

[GroupA]

9 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

Ludicrous. Eduardo Saverin, Boris Johnson, Prince Albert of Monaco, TS Eliot?

As previously noted you know hare suffering some fundamental misunderstanding of US tax code. I wont link to the Guardian but Boris and 5,410 people renounced US citizenship in 2016. 

OK if true (I don't know) but 5,410 out if how many million is very very small. How many percent wise gave up their citizenship during the same period. 

Living outside the US a citizen can exclude the first 103K dollars/year (conditions apply). Also the tax rates in the US are probably much lower than the UK or EU, so the remaining tax burden is lower. 

I'd like to point out again that this is a smokescreen. The topic here was about ED visa refusal for Combat courses. If the author was being paid in the US he owes tax in the US. 

[Date Masamune]

FredGhallagher posted that nobody gives up US citizenship. Simply not true.

I knew people who stayed in Chiang Mai for years on ED Visas (with no other option). They are all gone. The Hand to Hand Combat Visa, not cheap, used to be foolproof. Not so much anymore. No matter if you are a DM or not, under 50, not working for a Thai company, not married, few options left other than IGLU or Thailand Elite. The "free rider" DMs contribute to the economy by spend and many would be willing to pay income tax in Thailand but it is not feasible with the current employment model.  The "Border Bounce" nonsense living in Thailand on Tourist visas is not feasible either.

 

[Falconator]

5 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

I've thought about your situation and I have a solution ( I think).

1) Talk to an agent about doing funds to do a Non O Marriage:

2) If fees are OK then get married and go that route:

3) Start transferring 40K to a Thai Bank. You can use this money to live on;

4) Don't worry about ED visa but you can do the combat training if you like.

You say that you are paid in US so you must be drawing on it to live.  Check with CU if they have better rates. There have been past about opening CU accounts from Thailand. 

Good luck

 

40k per month direct deposit into a Thai bank account is easy-peasy. Most DNs should be able to do this.

 

I was just hesitant about monthly deposits since I don't want it counting as against me as evidence of "working" in Thailand.

 

Which agents would you recommend?

 

[blorg]

45 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

Boris Johnson 

How's that working out for you?

[blorg]

@Falconator you can transfer the 40k in from your own bank account. My understanding though is they don't look into this very much or need any proof of what it is or where it came from, just needs to be 40k going in each month.

[Falconator]

Just now, blorg said:

@Falconator you can transfer the 40k in from your own bank account. My understanding though is they don't look into this very much or need any proof of what it is or where it came from, just needs to be 40k going in each month.

 

Not bad at all. I will need to look more into this some more.

 

If I deposit 40k baht from my US bank account into a Bangkok Bank bank account for 10 months via TransferWise and make sure that they are coded as foreign transfers, would that qualify me for marriage visa extension since I'll have a 400k baht deposit via 10 transfers?

 

My US bank account statement will have evidence of me "working," so that's my main concern.

 

[blorg]

I think you need 12, for the full year coming up to your extension. Incidentally though I'm not sure they even NEED to be coded as foreign. They do for a retirement extension, for sure, but I'm not sure they do for marriage. You can work in Thailand on a marriage extension (if you also have a work pemit- you can't on retirement) so I don't think they rolled that into to the extension requirements for marriage. I may be wrong.

 

They shouldn't need to see your US bank statement.

[Bill97]

I was going to answer but it would be off topic here. Get real 5K out of 300M.

5k is the formal quantity. It does not include the 53 million who have effectively done it off the books.


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[Bill97]

Still don't get it. You are off topic and trying to hijack the thread. What's wrong with you? I'm not lowering myself to say more. 

So absurd. I’ve just responded to info YOU posted.

Can’t go much lower than you already have.


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[LivinLOS]

16 hours ago, dimitriv said:

That sounds logical, but it is not the truth. The US requires that people with a US passport pay tax on their worldwide income. So even if you officially live in another country you still have to pay US tax. And opening bank accounts in most other countries is nearly impossible.

Except when they have a Thai tax return and do it legally they qualify for the foriegn earned income exclusion. 

 

And like I keep explaining this exclusion comes down to bonafide resident test and a physical presence test.. Which is the other side of the Thai physical presence test. 

[LivinLOS]

15 hours ago, Bassosa said:

This doesn't apply to Thailand...there are hardly any "resources, public goods or services of a communal nature".

Here you pay for what you use, apart from perhaps the roads, but the VAT paid more than makes up for that too.

Its not only about you, income earners support a society.. Or I guess poor brown people dont need schools, hospitals, libraries, roads, police forces, fire services, etc etc etc... 

Its all so neo colonial, I am a wealthy westerner, I should have right to travel anywhere, break any laws I dont personally like or cost me money, and to hell with the natives. Thier education or health isnt my problem.

[fhickson]

i think your from the usa, why dont you fly home and get a 9 month metv? walk in service in los angeles takes only a couple days?

 

if theres some problem with that please let me know as im on my first one and will be relying on repeating that every year. rt ticket was around $700 with return segment 9 months out.

Edited July 29, 2019 by fhickson

[grifbel]

21 hours ago, daoyai said:

ridiculous assertion,  as the VAT is the primary revenue source for the govt. trough no one can avoid it.

Nonsensical rant.  VAT is a type of consumption tax, similar to a user tax.  Most social infrastructure comes from income taxes and social security contributions.  Teaching moment over.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Its not only about you, income earners support a society.. Or I guess poor brown people dont need schools, hospitals, libraries, roads, police forces, fire services, etc etc etc... 

Its all so neo colonial, I am a wealthy westerner, I should have right to travel anywhere, break any laws I dont personally like or cost me money, and to hell with the natives. Thier education or health isnt my problem.

Thailand could change their laws to be able to get income tax from digital nomads. They don't, so i guess they don't care about it.

Should retirees in Thailand also pay income tax? They use the roads etc. as well

[LivinLOS]

8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Thailand could change their laws to be able to get income tax from digital nomads. They don't, so i guess they don't care about it.

Should retirees in Thailand also pay income tax? They use the roads etc. as well

Thailand could change thier laws, but they dont, which indicates not that you can break those laws, but that they dont want to open Thailand up to non Thai freelancers.. Your claim that because they dont change the law its supported is illogical, 1000s of laws are not changed and no one comes to the conclusion that the law is irrelevant because it hasnt been permitted. 

Yes retirees who bring in pension income in the year it is earned, should also be paying taxes.. I have posted on this subject many times over the last few years. I strongly suspect that is a future shoe to drop for all the retirees who use the income declaration method. Pension income is taxable here by law, if it is brought into the country in the year it is paid. Theres a lot of complexity around tax paid and tax deferred pensions but many, probably even most, would owe tax and yes it should be paid. At a bare minimum they would need to do tax returns here and thier home country and claim one tax against the other under a DTA agreement, even if it is pre taxed pension income. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by LivinLOS

[jackdd]

13 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Thailand could change thier laws, but they dont, which indicates not that you can break those laws, but that they dont want to open Thailand up to non Thai freelancers..

They could just close the legal loophole which says "foreign income is only taxable if it's brought into Thailand in the year it's earned". That they don't close this, indicates that they don't want to tax these people, including digital nomads, doesn't have to do anything with allowing non Thai freelancers.

[LivinLOS]

Just now, jackdd said:

They could just close the legal loophole which says "foreign income is only taxable if it's brought into Thailand in the year it's earned". That they don't close this, indicates that they don't want to tax these people, including digital nomads, doesn't have to do anything with allowing non Thai freelancers.

It probably indicates that wealthy Thais who have offshore income, and offshore bank accounts where they can park money for a year.. Like the ability to not pay taxes on that non Thai sourced income. Its got very little to do with 'nomads' who dont go anywhere and are too poor to see the value in red carpet visa treatment for a few 100 usd a month. 

 

You can guess at motives all day long, the law is clear, online work is work, collecting revenue from affiliate marketing or other sources without Thai customers and connections is work, running an online business from a laptop in Thailand is work.. All of these legally need a work permit (and magically, when someone does this, all thier visa issues and problems disappear). 

Whatever thier motives are, until they make an online freelancer visa or work permit exception then this is the law of the land. You have the right to dislike that law and choose another land, you have the right to comply with that law and remain.. You don't have the moral right to simply say I don't like that, I don't want to contribute to the society I live in or comply with its laws, I will just continue to abuse the host country's hospitality, avoid its taxes and corporate laws, and complain there's no visa for me while I do it. 

[Thaidream]

22 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

es retirees who bring in pension income in the year it is earned, should also be paying taxes.. I have posted on this subject many times over the last few years. I strongly suspect that is a future shoe to drop for all the retirees who use the income declaration method. Pension income is taxable here by law, if it is brought into the country in the year it is paid. Theres a lot of complexity around tax paid and tax deferred pensions but many, probably even most, would owe tax and yes it should be paid. At a bare minimum they would need to do tax returns here and thier home country and claim one tax against the other under a DTA agreement, even if it is pre taxed pension income. 

Doubt they could change the tax law on this simply because there is no way to prove money transfered in each month is from a person's savings or from their pension. They might try but if a per andson has money in a bank outside Thailand with a balance of at least 800K- the Thai Tax man is going to have to prove the pereson earned all that money in the same year and it cannnot be done.  

 

As far as the argumrnt of living in Thailand and using  the Thai 'facilities' which are paid by Thai taxes, you may want to consider that many of us have paid for this via  VAT; transfer taxes on property and homes/Condo's as well as  supporting Mom and Dad in the village; sending Thai Step Children to universities; volunteering in schools and other projects and generally  supporting the community. At least 15% of my income each month goes to these type of things.

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

You can guess at motives all day long, the law is clear, online work is work, collecting revenue from affiliate marketing or other sources without Thai customers and connections is work, running an online business from a laptop in Thailand is work..

But actions from Thai authorities clearly show that if somebody is doing work online, for a business which is not in Thailand, and which doesn't have close relations with anything Thailand related, this is not considered as working in Thailand, even if the person is physically in Thailand while doing this work. So according to the current interpretation of the law by Thai authorities these people don't need a work permit.

[daoyai]

31 minutes ago, grifbel said:

Nonsensical rant.  VAT is a type of consumption tax, similar to a user tax.  Most social infrastructure comes from income taxes and social security contributions.  Teaching moment over.

teaching moment LoL... anyway,  only a tiny percent of Thais pay income tax, the informal economy rules ... but they do pay vat tax as we all do. .. foreigners have no responsibility to pay for "social infrastructure" what little there is as we don't use it... for the most part. We contribute plenty already and they constantly scheme new ways to tap us... until we "tap out"  ... opinion moment over.

[LivinLOS]

27 minutes ago, jackdd said:

But actions from Thai authorities clearly show that if somebody is doing work online, for a business which is not in Thailand, and which doesn't have close relations with anything Thailand related, this is not considered as working in Thailand, even if the person is physically in Thailand while doing this work. So according to the current interpretation of the law by Thai authorities these people don't need a work permit.

That isnt the interpretation of Thai law at all.. Look at the online teacher recently deported for exactly that. Look at the My Mate Nate controversy... Look at every statement from the min of labour and employment thats out there. 

They are faced with something that is very hard to police and control, and has huge potential for negative PR and blowback on the genuine tourist industry if enforcement it goes wrong. That said why do you think every visa class used by long staying digital tax evaders has got harder and harder, been closed and shut down ?? 

Simply the fact that the country is too poor to enforce this, and too reliant on real tourists to risk it, does not mean its desired. If it was in any way what they wanted, there would be a visa class made. 

[LivinLOS]

32 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Doubt they could change the tax law on this simply because there is no way to prove money transfered in each month is from a person's savings or from their pension. They might try but if a per andson has money in a bank outside Thailand with a balance of at least 800K- the Thai Tax man is going to have to prove the pereson earned all that money in the same year and it cannnot be done.  

They dont need to change any law, the law exists perfectly clearly. 

All they need to do is get every farang who uses monthly money for an extension, not the saved 400k / 800k route.. And send them a tax bill. The farang is the one walking in offering hard proof that they are being paid that while living here, and its imported in the year its paid out as a pension income. 

Those farangs are offering the very proof themselves. I think its highly likely that this is going to come up in the next year or two. 

[jackdd]

6 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

That isnt the interpretation of Thai law at all.. Look at the online teacher recently deported for exactly that. Look at the My Mate Nate controversy... Look at every statement from the min of labour and employment thats out there.

Which teacher was deported for exactly that? Are you talking about the anonymous "John" who claims that something happened to him, while being very reluctant with details, and which was published on one single news site, without any other source confirming that this even happened at all?

 

My Mate Nate is producing videos in and about Thailand, he can't do this without Thailand. And there are people involved who are like his employees. He is clearly not a digital nomad, but running a business in Thailand.

 

You mean all these imaginary news, like 100+ chinese working online in a hotel, the only one who was charged was the hotel for not doing a TM30. Or when they raided the co working space in Chiang Mai and nobody was charged once they understood that these people aren't working for Thai businesses. Let's not forget about the Chinese who were running a chinese porn website from Thailand, charged only for distributing porn, not for working illegally.

All three of these news can be found on a variety of news sites.

[Thaidream]

24 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

All they need to do is get every farang who uses monthly money for an extension, not the saved 400k / 800k route.. And send them a tax bill. The farang is the one walking in offering hard proof that they are being paid that while living here, and its imported in the year its paid out as a pension income. 

Those farangs are offering the very proof themselves. I think its highly likely that this is going to come up in the next year or two. 

What you say is a possibility but I doubt it will happen due to the problems of actual enforcement.  If they tried to do this to me- I would challenge it in court .

 

I would agree with the work permit issues and DN's-  the enforcement would mean  labor department raids on certain work sites and  digital tracking of phones etc which comes up against privacy laws.  The Thai way is simply close the Visa gap to control the numbers in the same way they are controlling the retiree numbers by forcing one to tie up money for 5 months to a year or do the transfers.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Which teacher was deported for exactly that? Are you talking about the anonymous "John" who claims that something happened to him, while being very reluctant with details, and which was published on one single news site, without any other source confirming that this even happened at all?

 

My Mate Nate is producing videos in and about Thailand, he can't do this without Thailand. And there are people involved who are like his employees. He is clearly not a digital nomad, but running a business in Thailand.

 

You mean all these imaginary news, like 100+ chinese working online in a hotel, the only one who was charged was the hotel for not doing a TM30. Or when they raided the co working space in Chiang Mai and nobody was charged once they understood that these people aren't working for Thai businesses. Let's not forget about the Chinese who were running a chinese porn website from Thailand, charged only for distributing porn, not for working illegally.

All three of these news can be found on a variety of news sites.

Actually no were also charged and deported for working illegally.. According to the news published. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

What you say is a possibility but I doubt it will happen due to the problems of actual enforcement.  If they tried to do this to me- I would challenge it in court .

 

You would challenge a countries right to tax the people who are living in it ?? Good luck with that. 

 

 

[jackdd]

18 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Actually no were also charged and deported for working illegally.. According to the news published. 

Only according to the english news, because they translated it wrong.

Here for example some Thai news regarding this matter, which was even on TV back then: http://morning-news.bectero.com/regional/14-Sep-2016/87190

Actually the authorities said: They have to investigate if the Chinese guys worked like employees who have fixed working hours as in on office job. If this should be the case they can charge them with working illegally.

A digital nomad doesn't have fixed working hours when he has to be at the office.

 

[Bill97]

Nonsensical rant.  VAT is a type of consumption tax, similar to a user tax.  Most social infrastructure comes from income taxes and social security contributions.  Teaching moment over.

Give us a break. There are countries that run on such taxes and have effectively no income taxes.


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