I Appeal To All Westerners To Boycot My Bar

[mr_hippo]

An old story but I think this one comes with an interesting twist! It looks like a very clever advertising ploy - "I won't name the bar but pm me for details." You live in the area, your idle curiosity makes you pm for details. You visit the bar to see this awful woman who has ripped off the farang and you stay for a beer or three! A few days later, you are thinking "What's happening at the 'PM me for details' bar, another beer or three and this place is becoming one of your regular haunts. Believable sob story + free advertising = more profits.

[bkkmadness]

An old story but I think this one comes with an interesting twist! It looks like a very clever advertising ploy - "I won't name the bar but pm me for details." You live in the area, your idle curiosity makes you pm for details. You visit the bar to see this awful woman who has ripped off the farang and you stay for a beer or three! A few days later, you are thinking "What's happening at the 'PM me for details' bar, another beer or three and this place is becoming one of your regular haunts. Believable sob story + free advertising = more profits.

A little cynical?

[ltdknowledge]

First of all my GF was not a bar girl, although you could say she is now. She was married at 18 to a UK man of 45. The relationship didn't work out. We met and i tried to get a visa for her which cost alot of money and failed. By this time we had lved together for some time and we made the decision to move here. Our relationship has not been perfect, there has been many ups and downs but i have always loved her and her son, i still do. Our relatrionship was a breaking point December 06. In the first post i mentioned that after the bar was completed she was very different towards me. When she made the comment about going back to the UK and that she might possibly meet another man as she can't predict the future, this made me feel very low and insecure. After a few days of blanking each other i said to her that we must talk. I gave her some options that might work for us. The first her and her sister should return home and we sell the business, the second was the we split but run the business as partners and the third was to work at our relationship. She went straight to the owner of the land and told her that i want her to go, she only heard what she wanted to here.

Before we set the bar up we had a short split back in December, i'm talking 2 or 3 days. I came to Koh Chang as we had previously looked at this bar as i still wanted to go ahead with it despite our short split. I could have got any Thai girl to run this with me but i didn't. I sat their in my hotel room thinking how much i missed her and her son, and that if i did this it should be with her and not anyone else. When i phoned her she aggreed that this might help us as previously we were just sitting around in Bangkok. One market is just like the rest! Now im in this mess.

As for paper work my name is on the rental aggreement with a 3 year contract, the first year paid in full The business at the time wasn't registered, as soon as i was forced to leave she registered it at the police station? The policemen who drinks in the opposite bar told her to do that.

I have most but not all the receipts for materials. Tiles, water pump etc, and i also have documentation of bank transfers into her account from my UK bank. This is as much as i have.

If no one can help me legaly, my website Rock Salt Cafe hint hint will be dedicated to that bar, no doubt she will change the name but i haver pictures of location. I'm not normaly a vindictive peson, but the amount of work i put into that and the trust that was broken bothers me, not the money. I hav enough money to pay for a good lawyer, if i don't get anything back i hope it will xcost her in legal fees in the meantime.

I am not perfect, i sometimes say things the wrong way, but i have never set out to deliberatly hurt her. This to me is nothing more than theft. I could tell you the whole story from when i met her in the uk and i'm sure some would like to read for entertainment.

Anyway like i said. the website when launched will be Rock Salt Cafe.com Sorry rocksaltcafe.com I believe the bar was previously called My Bar and had a reputation for the girls, something i wanted to avoid.

With regards to not mentioning the bar, i wasn't sure if TV would be happy with that. After all i could be competitor.

Edited March 17, 2007 by ltdknowledge

[smartecosse]

married at 18 to a guy of 45 and didn't work in a bar. perhaps - prbably not

couldn't get a visa in the UK for her to stay, Ok so she did the next best thing and got you to set her up here

[0Mix1up]

loved her and her son, i still do

There in lies the problem.

How people are "in love with" people with knives in their back astounds me!

IMO

Ohh smartecosse "perhaps-prbably not" thats champagne sarcasm

Edited March 17, 2007 by 0Mix1up

[bkkmadness]

I have most but not all the receipts for materials. Tiles, water pump etc, and i also have documentation of bank transfers into her account from my UK bank. This is as much as i have.

If that's all you have I'm not sure you have much of a leg to stand on but I would certainly approach a proper lawyer rather than a forum of non lawyers to deal with this problem.

[Gary A]

I speak from been there, done that. I DIDN'T have a girlfriend for a partner. I had an old woman older than I was who wanted to retire. I had known her for years and trusted her. I had a good contract signed by her. It was taken to a Thai lawyer who was supposed to translate it to Thai because contracts written in English are not legal. When I went back to pick up the Thai version and the English original, the lawyer no longer knew me. I think Greg from Sunbelt remembers the story although he wasn't consulted.

To make a very long story short, I was threatened with a long jail term because of having drugs in my room. I have NEVER had drugs in my possession or ever used drugs. That was enough to get me to move out. I was then tailed along with my girlfriend and was read the report as to where we went, what we did and where we stayed. After knowing for sure that she did indeed have me followed I was told that having a farang killed cost 10,000 baht. After talking to several attorneys I decided it was only money and it wasn't worth getting killed over. I even lost a lot of my personal possessions because someone MUST have stolen them from my apartment.

[lannarebirth]

To the OP, it is my belief that with proper representation and the bank transfer documentation, that you stand a good chance to recoup some of your losses. That said, I have read some of your prior posts and I had the feeling that there should have been a lot of warning signs for you. You also didn't seem very adaptable to Thailand and it's ways. This may not be the place for you. I wish you luck in recouping your losses, but moreso, I hope you've learned a bit and can put this sad event behind you as well.

[bkkmadness]

By the way I visited the website it said "You have been suspended bitch".

[endure]

Might I remind you folks that discussion of bargirls/boys, personal insults and general flaming are not permitted on Thaivisa. Thank you.

[terry57]

in my early years in los i was involved in business for 7 years.

my thai partner had a mafia hit man on call and another falang employed a hitman to sit in his shop.

both ex police convicted killers.

from my first hand experience, the falang will always lose, so the smart thing to do is walk away with your life.

maddy has a friend that was succesful with the use of a lawyer but i will say this is few and far between.

pull it on if you like but beware of the possible consequences.

i reiterate,

only invest what one can afford to lose.

this is thailand, things work different here and always will.

accept the rules of this game or do not play.

thank you very much.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

To make a very long story short, I was threatened with a long jail term because of having drugs in my room. I have NEVER had drugs in my possession or ever used drugs. That was enough to get me to move out. I was then tailed along with my girlfriend and was read the report as to where we went, what we did and where we stayed. After knowing for sure that she did indeed have me followed I was told that having a farang killed cost 10,000 baht. After talking to several attorneys I decided it was only money and it wasn't worth getting killed over. I even lost a lot of my personal possessions because someone MUST have stolen them from my apartment.

I replied to this because I think the OP should read it again. Life can be very cheap here!!

I don't know how much money that you spent. I hope it wasn't more than you could afford to lose. I guess you could wait till the end of the first year and see if she is more friendly when she needs a big pile of cash to pay rent.

If you are a joint-leaseholder then does she need you consent to sell the lease?

[bkkmadness]

in my early years in los i was involved in business for 7 years.

my thai partner had a mafia hit man on call and another falang employed a hitman to sit in his shop.

both ex police convicted killers.

from my first hand experience, the falang will always lose, so the smart thing to do is walk away with your life.

maddy has a friend that was succesful with the use of a lawyer but i will say this is few and far between.

pull it on if you like but beware of the possible consequences.

i reiterate,

only invest what one can afford to lose.

this is thailand, things work different here and always will.

accept the rules of this game or do not play.

thank you very much.

Terry before you was saying that a Farang with a waterproof contract couldn't win a court case now you are bringing up hitmen for some reason. Obviously when dealing with a hitman the farang is very liable to lose, in a court of law farang do have a chance to win. I wouldn't advise the OP to stay on Koh Chang and proceed with legal action obviously.

The case I was referring to was not of a friend (no offence Mobi!) but of Mobi's who did win the court case so you see the farang will not always lose. There was post on the teaching forum as well about a teacher (who didn't have a work permit) that was wronged by his school by his employers at the school, he also took legal proceedings against them and won. My brother was cheated out of 5000 baht by a tailor (admittedly not Thai but Indian with Thai citizenship and a handful of police in his pocket), that case was taken further also and the money was also returned to him.

My point being if you do have a legal case then farangs do have rights here and can get results. You can't run around Thailand being scared of getting shot by Thai hitmen all the time. And you can't live in this country without sticking up for yourself and your legal rights or you will get scammed.

Edited March 17, 2007 by bkkmadness

[bingo2]

LTD knowledge I might be able to help you my email is (Email removed as per forum rules. Send the poster a PM (Private Message) through the board if you wish to get in touch) send your phone number will be in KC next week

[terry57]

in my early years in los i was involved in business for 7 years.

my thai partner had a mafia hit man on call and another falang employed a hitman to sit in his shop.

both ex police convicted killers.

from my first hand experience, the falang will always lose, so the smart thing to do is walk away with your life.

maddy has a friend that was succesful with the use of a lawyer but i will say this is few and far between.

pull it on if you like but beware of the possible consequences.

i reiterate,

only invest what one can afford to lose.

this is thailand, things work different here and always will.

accept the rules of this game or do not play.

thank you very much.

Terry before you was saying that a Farang with a waterproof contract couldn't win a court case now you are bringing up hitmen for some reason. Obviously when dealing with a hitman the farang is very liable to lose, in a court of law farang do have a chance to win. I wouldn't advise the OP to stay on Koh Chang and proceed with legal action obviously.

The case I was referring to was not of a friend (no offence Mobi!) but of Mobi's who did win the court case so you see the farang will not always lose. There was post on the teaching forum as well about a teacher (who didn't have a work permit) that was wronged by his school by his employers at the school, he also took legal proceedings against them and won. My brother was cheated out of 5000 baht by a tailor (admittedly not Thai but Indian with Thai citizenship and a handful of police in his pocket), that case was taken further also and the money was also returned to him.

My point being if you do have a legal case then farangs to have rights here and can get results. You can't run around Thailand being scared of getting shot by Thai hitmen all the time. And you can't live in this country without sticking up for yourself and your legal rights or you will get scammed.

maddy,

dont get me wrong as i do appreciate your point, but we are playing a completely different game here in los.

my point with the thai hitman is a valid one, as its a fact of life in los, and certainly not to be disgarded.

koh chang, as all the islands are controlled by thai mafia, and bars are there main hunting grounds and this is fact.

as far as the tailor and the 5000 baht goes, it not a big deal so you can possibly get your money back if you are scammed.

when we are talking about bars, condo's and other assets worth many thousands of dollars, the chances get much less, as money is close to god in the land of smiles and hitmen are cheap, as is life.

bribing judges is a national pass time and thats all im trying to say.

beware of the legal system and thai hitmen.

thanks maddy and send me that info please.

[ozzydom]

Thanks for the replies. The police here are very biased, especially when they see this innocent woman with her 3 year old child. I have already been ganged upon by the bar next door and the police who frequents it. She is also threatening me by saying she can have anything done to me if she wishes. I'm hoping Sunbelt after speaking to them can help.

Best of luck to you mate,it takes intestinal fortitude to admit to your peers that you have been had, Ive met a lot of farangs that have done millions under similar cicumstances but they are to embarrased to admit they cocked up (and I put myself in that category).

Hang in there and keep safe

[bkkmadness]

maddy,

dont get me wrong as i do appreciate your point, but we are playing a completely different game here in los.

Terry I am of course talking about Thailand. Where do you think I am talking about? It's not always so completely a different game as one might think sometimes. You ask 100 people on this site if I could have got that money back from a Bangkok tailor or whether that teacher had a chance of winning his case and 99 people would say 'No, a farang doesn't win in Thailand'. I don't agree with that and think it's poor advice to give.

my point with the thai hitman is a valid one, as its a fact of life in los, and certainly not to be disgarded.

koh chang, as all the islands are controlled by thai mafia, and bars are there main hunting grounds and this is fact.

Again going back to the point that you take legal action whilst you away from the island.

when we are talking about bars, condo's and other assets worth many thousands of dollars, the chances get much less, as money is close to god in the land of smiles and hitmen are cheap, as is life.

bribing judges is a national pass time and thats all im trying to say.

beware of the legal system and thai hitmen.

I agree you should be wary about it and judge for yourself the dangers of taking such action but at the end of the day a farang can take such action and win without getting shot.

thanks maddy and send me that info please.

Sorry Terence, what info?

[ZhangYimou]

im surprised more farang dont fight fire with fire in these situations.

[bkkmadness]

im surprised more farang dont fight fire with fire in these situations.

I agree, we do need the equalizer...

[Gary A]

I agree you should be wary about it and judge for yourself the dangers of taking such action but at the end of the day a farang can take such action and win without getting shot.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a proposition for you. I have bank statements and wire transfer records made out to my previous partner. I have the proposed contract that she offered and I have letters written in her hand and signed by her. The amount that was stolen from me was US $35,000. I'll give you 75 percent of whatever you recover.

[terry57]

maddy,

dont get me wrong as i do appreciate your point, but we are playing a completely different game here in los.

Terry I am of course talking about Thailand. Where do you think I am talking about? It's not always so completely a different game as one might think sometimes. You ask 100 people on this site if I could have got that money back from a Bangkok tailor or whether that teacher had a chance of winning his case and 99 people would say 'No, a farang doesn't win in Thailand'. I don't agree with that and think it's poor advice to give.

my point with the thai hitman is a valid one, as its a fact of life in los, and certainly not to be disgarded.

koh chang, as all the islands are controlled by thai mafia, and bars are there main hunting grounds and this is fact.

Again going back to the point that you take legal action whilst you away from the island.

when we are talking about bars, condo's and other assets worth many thousands of dollars, the chances get much less, as money is close to god in the land of smiles and hitmen are cheap, as is life.

bribing judges is a national pass time and thats all im trying to say.

beware of the legal system and thai hitmen.

I agree you should be wary about it and judge for yourself the dangers of taking such action but at the end of the day a farang can take such action and win without getting shot.

thanks maddy and send me that info please.

Sorry Terence, what info?

got the info im after maddy,

so all is good and time to just chill out and have a nice cold chang.

but i got to tell you mate, be carefull of those bleeding hitmen, as they dont take prisoners.

thank you very much.

[garro]

I think the people you deal with in a tailors would be a lot different from those in the bar business. At the end of the day there is not much sympathy in Thailand for bar-owning farangs. It is looked upon as a very dodgy occupation. The bar in question may be completely family-friendly but at the end of the day it is still a bar.

I sympathise with the OP because it is not nice to be double-crossed but when you get into a business such as bars it comes with the territory. If I was given a bar tommorow for free I wouldn't want in it and I certainly wouldn't want my wife working in it.

[terry57]

im surprised more farang dont fight fire with fire in these situations.

I agree, we do need the equalizer...

if you are going to use that little gun, make sure you are a very good shot.

its a good chance yoyu wont get another crack at it.

[bkkmadness]

I can't take your case Gary as I am not a lawyer. Since you have no real contract though I would guess you have a snowballs chance of getting that cash back.

Why exactly did you send the 35 K, because of a promised investment? Thats about the oldest scam in the book isn't it?

Contact a real lawyer find out what your position is.

[bkkmadness]

I think the people you deal with in a tailors would be a lot different from those in the bar business. At the end of the day there is not much sympathy in Thailand for bar-owning farangs. It is looked upon as a very dodgy occupation. The bar in question may be completely family-friendly but at the end of the day it is still a bar.

I sympathise with the OP because it is not nice to be double-crossed but when you get into a business such as bars it comes with the territory. If I was given a bar tommorow for free I wouldn't want in it and I certainly wouldn't want my wife working in it.

Agreed, I was just offering an example of a farang not always losing when they go through the correct channels.

[terry57]

I think the people you deal with in a tailors would be a lot different from those in the bar business. At the end of the day there is not much sympathy in Thailand for bar-owning farangs. It is looked upon as a very dodgy occupation. The bar in question may be completely family-friendly but at the end of the day it is still a bar.

I sympathise with the OP because it is not nice to be double-crossed but when you get into a business such as bars it comes with the territory. If I was given a bar tommorow for free I wouldn't want in it and I certainly wouldn't want my wife working in it.

Agreed, I was just offering an example of a farang not always losing when they go through the correct channels.

i think that its a good idea to deal with the big issue of major investment up against a 5000 baht loss in a tailors shop.

two completely different issues.

[tijnebijn]

Still did not hear the Op feels like checking things out how thing could be I think he not sees they are there.If she thought to do this beforehand she must have an friend or ex or different partner to think these things out!For me it is common sense,my nose would go where I should go.But taken all his story together and a different member put out,he did receive many hints in previous posts and did not get it!

Sorry to say,but your knowledge of reading people and situations sucks,this you learn in life and not in school.

You can say you had bad luck,but I think you had the lack of seeing things straight....

[Ulysses G.]

Get to a real lawyer, PDQ, with all the papers (especially receipts that show you paid for everything) and explain the situation. You can sort it out. Probably get the police in to get her out. I imagine she told a few bad stories about you, so clear it up pronto. Honest Thais will know you are being gutted and will back you if you go the honest route to clear this up.

If you get an HONEST policeman or lawyer on your side, you might be able to stop her. There are plenty of them, you just have to find a high-powered one.

At one time, when my business first started to take off, all of my competitors got together and were stealing and destroying my property, spreading false rumors and sending me e-mail threats, but I took pictures of the damage and took the e-mails to a reputable policeman and he went around and threatened them all until everything stopped.

They just send me anonomous, hate e-mails now as it's easy to do and not worth proving who is doing it.

Anyway, the notes remind me what scum these guys really are, so I have no mercy when it comes to competing against them and it is easy to stay focused

Edited March 17, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[Gary A]

I can't take your case Gary as I am not a lawyer. Since you have no real contract though I would guess you have a snowballs chance of getting that cash back.

Why exactly did you send the 35 K, because of a promised investment? Thats about the oldest scam in the book isn't it?

Contact a real lawyer find out what your position is.

I talked to three lawyers and all three wanted money up front. For some reason they refused to take the case on a percentage basis. I really wasn't in the mood to throw good money after bad especially after one firm forgot me, my name and had no record of me ever being there to get a legal contract made.

It wasn't a total loss. I lived in a decent apartment above the bar for the two years it took her to get rid of me.

We're not in Kansas Toto. In the USA, her hand written and signed letters would have been enough. That and the money transfers to her bank in her name would have had to be explained. This is the experience I needed to follow the golden rule. The VERY best rule is to NEVER spend more than you can afford to walk away from.

I might add that she is VERY well connected with some VERY unsavory people. I know that for sure, I met them.

ADDED - Did I consider other options? Of course I did but I decided that she wasn't worth rotting in a Thai jail for.

Edited March 17, 2007 by Gary A

[DaffyDuck]

Anyway like i said. the website when launched will be Rock Salt Cafe.com Sorry rocksaltcafe.com

You mght want to secure a web host with a tad more class, as this is what coms up when trying to go to that site:

http://dphost01.com/suspended.page/

Receiving a message of :"You've been suspended, bitch!

Visit the forum for assistance; we might be gracious enough to help. Probably not though." is not the most professional indicator.

Then again, maybe picking a webhost called datapimp, and the quality of what they host, is more a reflection on you...?

http://www.datapimp.com/