Dutch Beggar In Bangkok

[coldcrush]

Hmmmmm, Farang beggars, conmen in bars lending money, new business venture frauds, cardboard gangster, violent thugs, drug addicts, etc, etc...

I do not know which is worse, however i do know Thailand houses more of the latter.....ok clean up the beggars in a day, then take a lifetime to get rid of the real tyrants...it will never change..shame

[Ga-gai]

Some time ago, I made a posting about a young western girl who was begging for money on the walking bridge between Pantip Plaza and Pratu Nam. At that time, there were not many posters here that took a serious attention to that posting. One even believed that the girl must be mentally ill, or something. But, but...

Probably it is a thing that we will see more of, in the future to come.

My posting:

Young female farang beggar

Edited March 23, 2007 by Ga-gai

[MyFriend You]

Some time ago, I did a posting about a young western girl who was begging for money on the walking bridge between Pantip Plaza and Pratu Nam. At that time, there were not many posters here that took a serious attention to that posting. One even believed that the girl must be mentally ill, or something. But, but...

Probably it is a thing that we will see more of, in the future to come.

My posting:

Young female farang beggar

Turned out he was rom OZ, and was a little dingy dingy - I was in the airport when she was wheeled to the exit gate of Quantas, (by the imigration police, my girlefriend from Vietnam asked her what happened, she just said I dunno, I dunno - she blamed it on Larium, she had to take up north & in Laos, the way she was shaking I would say she had a monkey on her back was kicking heroin.

The Dutch guy hung out near Subway's on Sukumvit as well, near Tony Romas, lookat the video, he has been using that sign for a looooong time - he's not down on his luck, just lazy, he can get a flop house room for 90 baht a day down Soi 76 - 30 baht train ride, gullible Foreign tourists that beleive his story give him lot's, doesn't like to talk much to normal people, when I asked him questions - he got pissed and moved on - maybe he thought your video would make him some money - You didn't pay him for the interview did you????

[bkkmadness]

Many Thai children on the street begging or selling flowers at the red lights are controlled by maffia. All the money they earn from begging or selling flowers go staright to these maffia's pocket at the end of the day. If they cannot make certain amount of money in a day...they got beaten or torture.

Just to take part of your post and hopefully not present it out of context.

This is often used by some as an argument as to why we should give these children money. Of course the easy rebuttal is that although it might save one kid from a beating in the short term in the long term many more kids will be brought into this trade and face the same fate.

Not all these kids are Thai, we know one Burmese lad who works at Huay Kwang, he is sent out to sell flowers by his family (often the case I'm afraid) and not a mafia. We're looking to make a youtube vid of this kid soon. It may take us a while though as we have to add subtitles to it as well, and thats after we find the kid and if he allows us to film him.

A similar incident of a child being sent out by their family was reported on TV last year where a 9 yr old girl was crushed under the wheels of a lorry after being sent out to sell garlands at the very busy Asoke junction. The penalties for the parents at their very strictest I think was something like a few years in prison and/or a 20 K fine. It might not have been exactly that but it was far short of the punishment I'd like to have seen for the parents.

[Joost]

Something like the egg and the chicken. Witch one was first there? Dont give money like has been said before. Why give money? Buy off some moral problems? Dunno, just a simple dutch guy...does nationality mean something when you are in the gutter?

[Dragonmode]

Let the bloke be. If there are still gullible, naive farang keeping this guy at it, such is life.

[bkkmadness]

when I asked him questions - he got pissed and moved on - maybe he thought your video would make him some money - You didn't pay him for the interview did you????

Nope, I'm far to tight for that.

I was a bit surprised he didn't freak out at us as well, I said to my mate 'keep sharp this guy might flip out on us.' But he was fine, friendly even. You can see it in the interview really.

Funnily enough I didn't go out to search for this guy to video. We was making a short film about Christmas in Bangkok because we had nothing to do in the daytime and stopped quickly on the walkway to empty the memory card into the laptop. I see the guy walk past and he kept a little eye contact and I figured that was just because we were sitting on a walkway with a laptop out and he was probably wondering what we was up to, but then he sat down and pulled out his begging card. We was over there about 20 seconds later filming him! Lucky to get the interview at all, him being so open and chatty was a bonus.

[bkkmadness]

Unfortunately the photo of the guy isn't in http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/...php/t61241.html

the thread, but I'm 100% sure it is the same guy.

Yes he is the guy in bkkmadness's VID

(good job ..Bkkmadness)

I met him a year ago and pretty surpriseed that he have been "working" as a beggar so long.

I think he can fly around the world with his salary ..lol

Someone contacted me through another forum, they told me that they had given this guy money 2 years ago at On Nut.

[Khun Bob]

To give or not to give - it is your money/food/whatever - you choose - you have to judge each person and see what you want to do.

It is surprising how close you can be a very different life - the wrong chain of actions can make even well off people have a very different life to what they have been accustomed to. I never forget that or get too comfortable with the life I have - bad things can happen very quickly...

Thai's are very generous, from the Thai beggars I have seen it is usually the Thais that give and not often foreigners - and usually the thais give a little because I think that Thai's beleive that by giving improves their Karma. I have been the recipeint of Thai's good will and it is a very pleasant change to the small mindedness I have experienced in the UK.

Fate will take care of this guy - like any ventures in Thailand if he becomes too good at it the local interests will want a piece of the action and it sounds like he allready has an arrangement with the police - if the police put him in jail they wont get their kick backs - many activities that are illegal, the police gain from and have an interest in. By telling immigration about it maybe they are thinking how they can recruit some more foreigners to benefit from this - as clearly there is potential here...

Same in the UK - beggars on the dole and making £500+ a day - drives to his begging place in the morning does his shift then goes home - gets exposed in the Sun and sells a few newspapers. No we dont see many Thai beggars in the UK, but I am sure there is alot of money that has been given to Thais from the UK, that people later wished they hadnt !

Maybe people are concerned here that as a result of a few white foreigners begging may affect their ability to stay in Thailand. Personally, I think the guy who spray painted the kings pictures in chaing mai did more 'damage' in this respect.

In Penang, there has been a white foreigner begging for the past 10 years - same spot - doesnt really change appearance much - but different religions/outlooks involved there maybe...

Be interesting to know what Thai's think of this - that would make a good follow-up investigation.

Edited March 23, 2007 by Khun Bob

[Artfullmover]

My first thoughts about some people reporting this guy to immigration were mixed ( live and let live, afterall what has it got to do with us if this guy wants to take the low road in life).

After reading about the Mafia and there ways it probally wouldn't be long before they catch up with him.

If I see this guy I would throw a few baht his way and tell him he a brave boy and not to spend it all on beer as soon he may need a complete new clothing range (Chop chop).

Reporting him to immigration may be in his best interest, and all of you who do maybe hold a lot of compasion to your fellow mankind without even knowing it

[hgma]

What about dignity?!!!!!!!!

Have we (as farangs) not more than enough disputible excamples of how Thai people look at farangs.???????????

And "sometimes" quit rightly soo.

The man is a discrace to himself , my Country and me and my family

I am a Dutchman too.

It shows how much the policeforce in Thailand is disabled to function as it should according to the Thai Law.

only 1 advice.....................

get him of the streets......and fast!!!!!!!!!!!!

jerrold

The guy is full of <deleted>, just like you said in the video about the police deporting him and him just saying he pays them, if he wasn't living it up some where surley he would be begging outside a police station to they did deport him! ans as for his dress sence hes the cleanist looking beggar i've seen. THE MANS A DISGRACE!!! Good video and nice one on exposing him.

============================================================

First of all; I can see where a person can get down on his/her luck. However; to resort to begging-on-the-street, I find totally abhorent. I'm also a Dutchman and I am thoroughly ashamed of this guy's behaviour.

Surely he can call on his relatives/friends in Holland to get enough dosh together to return home !?! (and there, go straight back on the dole !)

Secondly; "chrisspursbkk1" you are sorely mistaken if you think that "getting arrested" by the Immigration Police would automatically result in the subject's deportation to his home-country. The truth of the matter is a bit more dramatic: they'll lock you up in the Immi-Jail and then they will wait until someone comes-in with enough money for the Fine & the Air-Ticket home. This could take a heck-of-a-lot of time, when yoy're considering morons like the one in this particular story . . . . . . .

JGK / Pattaya

[cosmont]

Very Upset by farang beggars.

They should be deported and blacklisted

Lot of Thai peoples are working hard everyday for earn a few thousand baht per month.

I am ashamed about farang beggars who just seated and wait some money from generous (and stupid) people

[sarpesius]

Many posters say this person is in some way reprehensible.

For example, some say he is lazy. He is not any more lazy than anyone else. The purpose of a job is to make money. However one makes money is a job, by definition. One does not have to perform a preconceived action and get money from a second party to be doing a "job." He has a perfect right to "beg" for money, as long as he hurts no one. I have passed beggars many times. Sometimes I give, sometimes not. The beggar does not offend me by putting up a sign and sitting by the road. The hill-tribe ladies who wear black are offensive in Chiang Mai: they really harass the tourists.

Some say that "fate" will take care of him. This is a cowardly way of of saying nothing while secretly hoping harm will befall him. Fate will also take care of him if he inherits 10 million euros. People giving him money are not necessarily naive. You are not naive just because you give to someone who asks you for money. We do not have to judge the beggar on the basis of disability. So the donor is not naive for giving money to an able bodied beggar.

Or that he is stupid because something bad will happen to him in the future. This is also just a way of wishing that something bad would happen to him. The fact the Thailand has inhumane jails does not make the beggar at fault or deserving of that fate for begging.

A false idea is that begging is not work, whereas teaching english is work. Begging is work. Teaching english is "called" work is because someone gives you money for it. The definition of work is circular and arbitrary: whatever someone gives you money for is work. People who criticize the dutch man for getting money in this way are indulging in sadistic urges. They have a limited and rigid notion of what work is and what is right livelihood for a person.

Begging may be more work than teaching english or manipulating the stock market. Real-panhandlers in America use psychology. They need to know in advance who might give and then how to speak to them and what body language to use. The panhandler must know where to sit or stand and at what time of day. The beggar is risking his personal safety by being on the street.

The beggar is engaging in enforced meditation because he cannot read or watch tv or listen to the radio while begging: no one would give. This is actually very hard to do. If anyone takes one of the free buddhist meditation courses offered in Thailand, they will see that sitting and doing nothing is harder than physical movement. The difference between the beggar and the meditator is the beggar must give his attention to the outside world.

Just because he makes money this way does not make him a scammer, or the people who give fools. University degrees are a real scam.

The hardest thing about begging is the change in the self-image the beggar must undergo. Many myths in Western culture (Persephone) and of other cultures (Chinese voyage to the West) involve a hero going through a cave or tunnel or a dangerous foreign land. The meaning of these myths is that the hero goes through a process of transformation. He must shed the present self-image and be reborn as a new person. Begging may be this process. The beggar may become more tolerant and wiser than the people who pass him on the bridge. He may become a stronger person in anything he chooses to do.

sarpesius

Edited March 23, 2007 by sarpesius

[Big Guy]

Something should definately be done about this, as this is the sort of thing that gives the falangs a bad name over here. The Thai's are worried about the expats and type of tourists that are visiting the country and by having people like this visable on the streets just plays right into the hands of the authorities

[Kaojai]

And there are Russian women begging on the beach in Pattaya (as well as "working" Beach Rd) and there are even some farang begging to pay the same as Thais for Baht bus fares or entry into various recreational venues.

Let's face it, a large percentage of the farang who come here want a hand-out in some form or another. Sitting on the pavement with your hand out may seem less dignified than whingeing about having to pay 10 baht for a ride, but it amounts to the same thing.

[astral]

Please...take a minute or two go to http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...hp?page=comment and either file a complaint or report an illegal act about this person.

Now, where do I start?

1. No current visa

2. Working without a permit.

Seriously, not much of a life, and not even enough money to support an application for

a visa extension based on marriage...........

High time his embassy took action to get him home. :D

[aussimike]

Note: His sign is in English...

Amazing observation --- sing in English - I really dont think Thai and 99% of tourist would understand it if it were written in Dutch --- or did you forget that English is the universal language ?????

[MarcHolt]

This MF, he was outside Pantip one day with the cops looking at him scratching their heads like apes trying to decide what to do. That was about 4 months ago..

I asked him what his story was and he said he taught at a pratom school and then got kicked out... Gave him the number for nature method.

Did you notice he swayed back and forth like he was on drugs?!

30,000 baht a month give or take no wonder he doesn't wanna teach, should have asked him where he sleeps at night, i doubt on the street, he's probably got a nice set up with a TV and fridge and all the sh!t?!?

Not only swaying back and forth, but his hands never stayed still. Definitely on drugs...or a very nervous person?

It's hard to understand anyone doing this for a living. And I find it hard to believe anything he would tell you about his motivation. Sounds to me like these people are just too lazy to do real work. They give us all a bad name.

Edited March 24, 2007 by MarcHolt

[aussimike]

Please...take a minute or two go to http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...hp?page=comment and either file a complaint or report an illegal act about this person.

Now, where do I start?

1. No current visa

2. Working without a permit.

Seriously, not much of a life, and not even enough money to support an application for

a visa extension based on marriage...........

High time his embassy took action to get him home. :D

Is begging an occupation or a recreational passtime ?? Perhaps that why the police have left him alone as such - but he must be able to prove he has sufficient funds to live and does he pay taxes - sure he does not - haa -- but the Thai attitude might be that the culture is to help those in need - and most tourist would not miss 1000 baht - they just spend this on one meal usually in a good restaurant - and if his story is convincing - oh well -- let him get back to the land of dykes -- as OP have posted we really dont need this low life here --- gives the rest of us a bad image - and there are enough farang who do that without begging --

[Stekmer]

Good video and transcript - Thanks for putting it up.

This guy gets around.... I'm sure that I saw him (or a look alike with the same business plan) outside MBK BTS in late February 2006.

Not my idea of a job, I'd be too embarrassed but he seemed pretty matter of fact with his replies to your questions - no sense of shame that I could pick.

[sensei]

bkkmadness: Oh so you embassy wont help you. And you can't work now?

DB: No I stopped work. I had a job for 3 days in the week, 12 hours, only 12000 Baht a month.

bkkmadness: Only 12000, but you can't get a teaching job for 25-30000 Baht a month?

DB: I was looking for that but they only gave me 12 hrs.

bkkmadness: Ok, but there is quite a lot of English teaching work, through agencies?

You were actually asking him to go to a school and work as a teacher?

Are you on the level? You were asking this no good excuse for a hobo to teach!

Please tell me that you have just run out of questions to ask when you said that!

[KRNN]

Well, if he's making 30G a month then he's probably not planning to go home?

Totally agree with Stekmer above.

No sense of shame.

He prefers begging for money than an honest 3-day-a-week teaching.

Or maybe the school stop hiring him for a reason?

And why guys like him get deported when honest, hard working people like us break our backs trying to get visa and work permit to live and work legally in LOS?

Edited March 24, 2007 by KRNN

[aussimike]

Writing a complaint to immigration will have ZERO affect on how Thais view farangs in their country. That's just plain mean-spirited and unneccessary. You act like we're saving the world, Tweez. ACT. What are you on about? It's not like we're donating money to a charity, why should we act on your silly opinion? You are just like the beggar but begging for a different thing. Perhaps you're jealous of his begging income. Whatever his story, just have some mercy and let it be. You don't need to get involved. If he ends up getting harrassed enough by police he may quit. He may not even be here anymore. That was months ago.

could not agree with you more - Twiz seems to be one of the so called do gooders - all i can say is that i am glad i dont have friends like him -- I wonder if he has helped anyone in the past or has ever been in a situation where things become desperate = we dont know what problems this guy really has and if he does need some sort of real treatment -= and i can imagine too many schools in thai giving him a job as an english teacher -- his accent is too strong - he is unable to seek assistance from the dutch embassy and he does not get the dole from there -- so i really dont see he has any other options but to beg if he really does not have any friends here or at home --

[ThaiFelix]

Well, if he's making 30G a month then he's probably not planning to go home?

Totally agree with Stekmer above.

No sense of shame.

He prefers begging for money than an honest 3-day-a-week teaching.

Or maybe the school stop hiring him for a reason?

And why guys like him get deported when honest, hard working people like us break our backs trying to get visa and work permit to live and work legally in LOS?

I have seen this before at home in Australia, they can pick up more than working and the reason is usually drugs. They also cant hold a job because they are unreliable. He said himself "it depends what time I wake up". In addition his answer to the employment question sounds like he hasnt tried too often..

Abkkmadness: Only 12000, but you can't get a teaching job for 25-30000 Baht a month?

DB: I was looking for that but they only gave me 12 hrs.

A habit would be cheaper to maintain here than at home begging and on the dole. The weather is also easier here than being out in the snow!

IMHO I think we have someone with a mental problem, hence the drugs and the lack of dignity.

[BigSnake]

Come on power that be Tax this guy, than deport him. Good Video. I am a bit surprise that none of the local Beggars have not complain about this guy. : Edited March 24, 2007 by BigSnake

[stickman]

I don't believe for a moment that he earns "as little" as 1,000 baht a day. If you see him, watch him, and you'll see Thais giving very generously - or at least they have when I have seen him. If he is out there for a number of hours, I bet he makes thousands per day. His 1,000 baht a day total would appear to me to be highly unlikely and much, much less than the real amount.

What makes me so angry is not that he is begging - in a worst case scenario, who knows, it could be any of us - but that he is begging under completely false pretences. It is just one big scam and that is very sad. The guy clearly has no shame whatsoever.

[65Craig]

Why do people get so upset because someone is begging. It is not like he is stealing your stuff or beating you up.

You sound like a bunch of assh0les. Live and let die.

Here's where I have a problem with this and because I have a problem with it doesn't make me an assh0le!!! One, the guy is cheating his own government while being here. If you watched the video or read the transcripts the guy is collecting unemployment checks and living in Thailand. So not only is the guy getting money from his home country, he's on the street begging for money here. Admittedly getting about 1,000 baht a day. And what really bothers me though, is the fact that he's totally a bullshitter and he's not trying to go back back home (like he says when he's begging). Fortunately I have family and friends who would help in the event of trouble here, but what if I didn't. It's people like this who will make it impossible for those who really have run on hard times, and really do want to go back home from getting money (from people wanting to help). Plus, Thailand is making it harder and harder on Farangs to live here, and I don't suspect guys like this are making it any easier on the one's who are here working hard and working honestly.

[chrisspursbkk1]

Hi Loke, i'm sorry to say mate but i think youv'e missed the point, what a lot of people are saying is why dosn't he go to his embassy and then on to Holland were theres a system which will look after him. The reason the guys getting bad press is simple! the Thais in this country who are really poor don't have an option but this guy dose!

You Just confirmed what I've just said... You don't have a clue, if you think you know anything about this guy or about his options.

Don't talk to me about poor thais, as if you had some special knowledge about those... Your ignorance shown to this guy tells it all.

Poor ppl doesn't need your "simple bad press" just because there's ppl in existance that are more poor. This guy seems to me to be one who rather bend his pride than to steal, mug or bother anyone really - and he's on his knees begging from english-speaking thais/farrangs fortunate enough to ride the skytrain. BTW: Intoxicated or not - he might just be dozed by the heavy smog ;o)

- Get real and mind you manners, mate!

You are IMHO talking out of your @rse. The days are over when you just went to the embassy or consulate and had a free trip home, dude. The begging guy doesn't seem to be too bright, thus almost demanding anyones pity. For one: he too think he could just go to the dutch embassy and get a free ride home - only if not that they then would find out, that he actually should have been in Holland the last whole year looking for work - and second: the poor guy sees no problem whatsoever in admitting it all ON TAPE ment for YouTube. With all those selfappointed police-informers, like in here, then he'll probably get in serious legal trouble upon his return to Holland. Justice served, I'm sure those prick$ would say.

Listen up and think for once; straight all right narrow-path following individuals DONT NEED ANY COMPASSION... It's the somewhat crooked guys who are in the gutter that does.

//Loke

Your one whos hasn't a clue mate! and as for telling me i'm talking out my @rse and making reference's to other forum members as prik$ your the one who needs to mind his manners!! Try to understand a topic before putting a post on it, now please take a look through some of the other posts and you will see your sadly mistaken in all you wrote.

[loong]

I think that begging is fine when somebody is genuinely down on their luck. The problem is, how do you spot the genuine cases?

Having watched beggars in action in the tourist areas, I have to conclude that many have a higher income than I do!

If this man has an income of 30,000 Bt per month, he can have a good life, but note that he ADMITS to about 1000 Bt per day, maybe he makes double that? Who knows.

I do not give to beggars, farang or thai, because I cannot know who is genuine. As others have posted, it is probably better to give food if you feel that you have to give something.

[PeaceBlondie]

I've spent time here deleting a couple of direct insults against ThaiVisa members, and there are a few more that deserve deletions, but can I please BEG you folks to stop insulting one another? Thank you.