Bad Police Experiences

[November Rain]

Totally different story, which shows how the MiB can sometimes enjoy getting a reaction from Farang... 4 years ago my father committed suicide in BKK by jumping from the 7th floor of a building. My mother was living in BKK, I was in HH. When she got the call to the police station, she called me & I went up. Two & a half hours later, as I arrived, she's still in the station. Investigating officers laughing & joking & watching tv. They eventually deal with us & hand me a lot of things he had, bloodstained ID, jewellery, shoes etc.

Over the next few days the usual nightmare ensues, notifying embassy, getting the right paperwork, organising the funeral etc. During this period we have to pop into the station occasionally.

After my father's cremation, we get another call to come to the station. So, we sit down, 3 days after the ceremonies are all over. Why do they want us? They must show all of the photos of my father's broken body to my mother. I refused point blank to let her see them, so they insisted that I had to. I was forced to look at all of the photos they had taken at the scene of my father's body, his cigarette packet which had fallen a few feet away. I looked up & saw the police officer in question grinning at my lack of composure. Those images will stay with me for the rest of my life. Now, please, someone tell me what purpose that served? ID? Too late for that, he was cremated. And what did I or my mother do to be treated like that? How did we deserve it?

[alexth]

Totally different story, which shows how the MiB can sometimes enjoy getting a reaction from Farang... 4 years ago my father committed suicide in BKK by jumping from the 7th floor of a building. My mother was living in BKK, I was in HH. When she got the call to the police station, she called me & I went up. Two & a half hours later, as I arrived, she's still in the station. Investigating officers laughing & joking & watching tv. They eventually deal with us & hand me a lot of things he had, bloodstained ID, jewellery, shoes etc.

Over the next few days the usual nightmare ensues, notifying embassy, getting the right paperwork, organising the funeral etc. During this period we have to pop into the station occasionally.

After my father's cremation, we get another call to come to the station. So, we sit down, 3 days after the ceremonies are all over. Why do they want us? They must show all of the photos of my father's broken body to my mother. I refused point blank to let her see them, so they insisted that I had to. I was forced to look at all of the photos they had taken at the scene of my father's body, his cigarette packet which had fallen a few feet away. I looked up & saw the police officer in question grinning at my lack of composure. Those images will stay with me for the rest of my life. Now, please, someone tell me what purpose that served? ID? Too late for that, he was cremated. And what did I or my mother do to be treated like that? How did we deserve it?

I'm very sorry for your loss and hope you got over it. I believe every word of your statement, the un professionalism of the thai police is outrageous. I've seen it and I watched it with the eyes of a romanian police officer's eyes, I've never seen anything like it in Romania. Yes, a while back they used to get tea money, but for real law violations (not made up crimes), however, if it was accidents involving alcohol or murders, beatings and stuff, your money wouldn't be useful anymore.

Edited March 19, 2007 by alexth

[suiging]

Totally different story, which shows how the MiB can sometimes enjoy getting a reaction from Farang... 4 years ago my father committed suicide in BKK by jumping from the 7th floor of a building. My mother was living in BKK, I was in HH. When she got the call to the police station, she called me & I went up. Two & a half hours later, as I arrived, she's still in the station. Investigating officers laughing & joking & watching tv. They eventually deal with us & hand me a lot of things he had, bloodstained ID, jewellery, shoes etc.

Over the next few days the usual nightmare ensues, notifying embassy, getting the right paperwork, organising the funeral etc. During this period we have to pop into the station occasionally.

After my father's cremation, we get another call to come to the station. So, we sit down, 3 days after the ceremonies are all over. Why do they want us? They must show all of the photos of my father's broken body to my mother. I refused point blank to let her see them, so they insisted that I had to. I was forced to look at all of the photos they had taken at the scene of my father's body, his cigarette packet which had fallen a few feet away. I looked up & saw the police officer in question grinning at my lack of composure. Those images will stay with me for the rest of my life. Now, please, someone tell me what purpose that served? ID? Too late for that, he was cremated. And what did I or my mother do to be treated like that? How did we deserve it?

I'm very sorry for your loss and hope you got over it. I believe every word of your statement, the un professionalism of the thai police is outrageous. I've seen it and I watched it with the eyes of a romanian police officer's eyes, I've never seen anything like it in Romania. Yes, a while back they used to get tea money, but for real law violations (not made up crimes), however, if it was accidents involving alcohol or murders, beatings and stuff, your money wouldn't be useful anymore.

All agreed

However I am sure we would all find it hard to blame a severly mentally handicapped person for crashing a Thai Airways aircraft if he had been plucked from the mental home and appointed pilot by the government.

Can not condone the actions of a portion of the MIB in any way, but still feel It's up to the good citizens of the LOS to pressure the powers that be, to get the Police they deserve ( OK OK they get what they deserve blah blah blah ).

The cops here in general are garbage, but there is a reason and I feel carping on about individual crap cops is not really helpful if the underlaying problem is not addressed.

[solo siam]

Totally different story, which shows how the MiB can sometimes enjoy getting a reaction from Farang... 4 years ago my father committed suicide in BKK by jumping from the 7th floor of a building. My mother was living in BKK, I was in HH. When she got the call to the police station, she called me & I went up. Two & a half hours later, as I arrived, she's still in the station. Investigating officers laughing & joking & watching tv. They eventually deal with us & hand me a lot of things he had, bloodstained ID, jewellery, shoes etc.

Over the next few days the usual nightmare ensues, notifying embassy, getting the right paperwork, organising the funeral etc. During this period we have to pop into the station occasionally.

After my father's cremation, we get another call to come to the station. So, we sit down, 3 days after the ceremonies are all over. Why do they want us? They must show all of the photos of my father's broken body to my mother. I refused point blank to let her see them, so they insisted that I had to. I was forced to look at all of the photos they had taken at the scene of my father's body, his cigarette packet which had fallen a few feet away. I looked up & saw the police officer in question grinning at my lack of composure. Those images will stay with me for the rest of my life. Now, please, someone tell me what purpose that served? ID? Too late for that, he was cremated. And what did I or my mother do to be treated like that? How did we deserve it?

Thai's often smile or even laugh when faced with something that is difficult to deal with, It was a horrible thing to happen but do you really believe he enjoyed showing you those photos? Sounds like procedure, some would argue that it may be painful but may provide some sort of closure and help come to terms with the grief.

In regards to the rest of the posts, The only people who I've met here who have had any serous problems with the police are the same type that would most likely have those same problems in their home country. If Police beating up on foreigners is so common, why haven't I or any of my friends ever encountered or heard first hand about it? Some people just attract trouble, if the police beat you up then report them - there are high level officers available to contact to make sure this doesn't happen.

If it all was as the OP stated, and he hasn't made any sort of official complaint, then I've no sympathy for him - he's just allowing that sort of behaviour to go on.

[Jimmyd]

Back to the original situation--stories like these are a reminder to me:

1. Whenever possible, get away from a bad situation.

2. Try to keep a cool head or I may lose more than my temper.

3. Try to deal with situations with humor and/or unexpected kindness.

4. Try to train myself not to react in the hotheaded manner that is so ingrained from my upbringing.

5. Don't kick myself when I react the wrong way, instead try my best to go back to step 1 (or 3 or...).

[November Rain]

Totally different story, which shows how the MiB can sometimes enjoy getting a reaction from Farang... 4 years ago my father committed suicide in BKK by jumping from the 7th floor of a building. My mother was living in BKK, I was in HH. When she got the call to the police station, she called me & I went up. Two & a half hours later, as I arrived, she's still in the station. Investigating officers laughing & joking & watching tv. They eventually deal with us & hand me a lot of things he had, bloodstained ID, jewellery, shoes etc.

Over the next few days the usual nightmare ensues, notifying embassy, getting the right paperwork, organising the funeral etc. During this period we have to pop into the station occasionally.

After my father's cremation, we get another call to come to the station. So, we sit down, 3 days after the ceremonies are all over. Why do they want us? They must show all of the photos of my father's broken body to my mother. I refused point blank to let her see them, so they insisted that I had to. I was forced to look at all of the photos they had taken at the scene of my father's body, his cigarette packet which had fallen a few feet away. I looked up & saw the police officer in question grinning at my lack of composure. Those images will stay with me for the rest of my life. Now, please, someone tell me what purpose that served? ID? Too late for that, he was cremated. And what did I or my mother do to be treated like that? How did we deserve it?

Thai's often smile or even laugh when faced with something that is difficult to deal with, It was a horrible thing to happen but do you really believe he enjoyed showing you those photos? Sounds like procedure, some would argue that it may be painful but may provide some sort of closure and help come to terms with the grief.

In regards to the rest of the posts, The only people who I've met here who have had any serous problems with the police are the same type that would most likely have those same problems in their home country. If Police beating up on foreigners is so common, why haven't I or any of my friends ever encountered or heard first hand about it? Some people just attract trouble, if the police beat you up then report them - there are high level officers available to contact to make sure this doesn't happen.

If it all was as the OP stated, and he hasn't made any sort of official complaint, then I've no sympathy for him - he's just allowing that sort of behaviour to go on.

Yes, I do believe he enjoyed showing me the photos (I believe he would have enjoyed my mother seeing them more, though!) This wasn't an embarrassed smile. I looked into his eyes. He was having fun. And, as for procedure, don't you think it would have been more professional to have finished all the "procedures", before the cremation, instead of calling us in 3 days later, when we thought all the official stuff was over? Also, I could've done without the closure of seeing those photos, I'm only glad that Mum didn't see them.

I have had a few bad experiences with police here (that was the worst) & I'm an extremely law abiding person, both here & in my own country. I have been the victim in all the cases & have yet to experience empathy, compassion, caring or professionalism. So, IMHO, you're talking rubbish.

[andook]

I've had some bad experience of the local cops. I've also had some positive experiences too. seems like places like Pattaya does attract the worst of all kinds; and most of the cops in the touristy / dodgy areas have borrowed / paid heavily to get a posting there, as in investment only. ie, they want to make their outlay back, asap.

Having worked in some really dodgy (other) countries before. The cops here are not so bad compared.

[alexth]

I've had some bad experience of the local cops. I've also had some positive experiences too. seems like places like Pattaya does attract the worst of all kinds; and most of the cops in the touristy / dodgy areas have borrowed / paid heavily to get a posting there, as in investment only. ie, they want to make their outlay back, asap.

Having worked in some really dodgy (other) countries before. The cops here are not so bad compared.

Where were you before? Africa? Cambodgia? South America?

[andook]

I've had some bad experience of the local cops. I've also had some positive experiences too. seems like places like Pattaya does attract the worst of all kinds; and most of the cops in the touristy / dodgy areas have borrowed / paid heavily to get a posting there, as in investment only. ie, they want to make their outlay back, asap.

Having worked in some really dodgy (other) countries before. The cops here are not so bad compared.

Where were you before? Africa? Cambodgia? South America?

Nigeria, Algeria, Kazakhstan, Sakhalin, PNG, etc. a lot of the places on the oil / gas pipeline routes these days are politically volatile and downright dangerous. Thats before you are allowed to mingle with the locals...

[ColPyat]

If Police beating up on foreigners is so common, why haven't I or any of my friends ever encountered or heard first hand about it? Some people just attract trouble, if the police beat you up then report them - there are high level officers available to contact to make sure this doesn't happen.

If it all was as the OP stated, and he hasn't made any sort of official complaint, then I've no sympathy for him - he's just allowing that sort of behaviour to go on.

It is not common that police beat up foreigners for no reason, but it happens (sometimes foreigners are even killed by police officers, see the Kanchanaburi case, or the still open Chiang Mai case).

It is very common though that police beat up and torture people who were arrested. It is very common that female prisoners in police stations are raped. It is very common that police officers here arrest people on trumped up charges and extort money, and that happens regularly to foreigners as well.

It is very common that police presses foreigners into working as snitches, either because these foreigners were caught, or because police made up charges.

As a rule of thumb, well known here in Thailand, in every police station 10% of the officers are clean, 30% percent are reasonably corrupt, and the rest is dirty beyond hope.

And yes, police has to low budgets, too low pay, but that is only part of the problem. There is a serious lack of legal training, and no education in human rights whatsoever in all armed forces.

[h90]

So to make a sum:

you beat a guy who teased you with a tree branch, I don't know how hard, but in most country this brings you in trouble.

At police you told them a wrong story (fresh tourist) and uncovered it yourself by speaking Thai.

And you wounder that you got threated like a bad guy?

[jumnien]

Never felt threatened physically by a police officer in Thailand; definitely not the case in my home country. I've seen horrible brutality furnished by the LAPD treating locals like animals with absolutely no consequences. The world over - good cops, bad cops!

[ColPyat]

So to make a sum:

you beat a guy who teased you with a tree branch, I don't know how hard, but in most country this brings you in trouble.

At police you told them a wrong story (fresh tourist) and uncovered it yourself by speaking Thai.

And you wounder that you got threated like a bad guy?

He was beaten over the head repeatedly with a tree branch. This is usually considered as an attack, and pushing the offender off is self defense.

It is news to me that pretending not to speak Thai is an offense, and also that Thai law states that anybody is allowed to be beaten up in a police station, unless the officers have to defend themselves.

[jumnien]

"Be kind to strangers they may be angels in disguise" Shakespeare

"Don't violently push drunk strangers, they may be off duty cops!" Expat wisdom.

[andook]

So to make a sum:

you beat a guy who teased you with a tree branch, I don't know how hard, but in most country this brings you in trouble.

At police you told them a wrong story (fresh tourist) and uncovered it yourself by speaking Thai.

And you wounder that you got threated like a bad guy?

He was beaten over the head repeatedly with a tree branch. This is usually considered as an attack, and pushing the offender off is self defense.

It is news to me that pretending not to speak Thai is an offense, and also that Thai law states that anybody is allowed to be beaten up in a police station, unless the officers have to defend themselves.

Normal Gestapo procedure, perhaps?

[Levent]

Let's face it, farangs are walking targets here. Or driving. The police obviously think they're above the law, not representing it. I am sick and tired of being stopped by some traffic cop who wants to earn some extra pocket money, but they know they have the power to do what the !@$% they want.

[Jimmyd]

"Be kind to strangers they may be angels in disguise" Shakespeare

"Don't violently push drunk strangers, they may be off duty cops!" Expat wisdom.

LOL

[ColPyat]

Let's face it, farangs are walking targets here.

Actually, to be fair here - for the average lower class Thai police extortion and brutality is far worse than for almost all farang. We westerners just see the surface of how deep this system runs.

[Levent]

I am just speaking out of personal experience - I am sure the police are at least as bad to their own (lower class) people. They were just as bad in Turkey until about 15 years ago, when the government started a major clampdown on corruption in the police force. It's a big shame, really, you should be able to trust the police and see them as a helping hand, not an enemy best to avoid.

A large part of the problem would be solved if they received better salaries and training, I am sure.

[madjbs]

Where in the world do people not see the police as an enemy best to be avoided?

[Sing_Sling]

Where in the world do people not see the police as an enemy best to be avoided?

Lots of places . . . an example is where I live at the moment . . . no-one here would be apprehensive to approach a cop. Another place would be Japan. It would be wise not to tar all countries with the same brush, or all cops as being nasty prats.

[alexth]

Where in the world do people not see the police as an enemy best to be avoided?

Yes, true, it would be advisable not to mess with the police anywhere, but, there is a difference, in other countries the police would far as possible but the legal way. Here...

[vegas]

Low wage is not an excuse. They have other career options, they are just too lazy to study for a living. No excuses. There are cheap loans on offer for university education. My missus opted for a uni education and is now a manager. Hate to stereotype but most Thai boys are lazy and looking for the quick fix.

[jdinasia]

Interesting points here....

Yes in hindsight I could have avoided this but I am also human and there is more to the story. The fish was a steamed lemon/chilli deal costing a lot more than 20 baht, plus I was getting them to prepare a meal for my GF for when I got back to her house. If I had walked away then I would of lost a few hundred baht. I was really hungry that day so ordered a lot. Also I was enjoying the conversation with the staff as it wasn't very busy at that time and I did have a couple of Singha's.

Probably a combination of all things led me to overact but it all happened so fast and it is not possible to know what you will do in a certain situation on any given occasion.

Morale of the story I suppose is probably don't lash out at someone in a foreign country unless it is absolutely necessary, but I don't really think I deserved the treatment I got

PS : This is the first time in over 4 years in Thailand that anything like this has happened with police. I have found them to be helpful and also humorous in the past.

ya luum damruat prataet Thai andarai !!!

You are right ... nobody deserves to be beaten for being silly ..... and you did overreact

[ColPyat]

Low wage is not an excuse. They have other career options, they are just too lazy to study for a living. No excuses. There are cheap loans on offer for university education. My missus opted for a uni education and is now a manager. Hate to stereotype but most Thai boys are lazy and looking for the quick fix.

This is a generalization.

Lets just stick with the police, as this is the thread title and not go into perceived qualities of Thai males (not all of them are boys, some actually make it to manhood and advanced age as well). In the police rank has to be bought and is decided by association to a peer group and/or family. Advancement rarely is decided purely by qualification.

To become a provincial police chief, for example, usually tens of millions of Baht have to be paid. It goes without saying that this sort of money has to be earned and/or borrowed first, and that is has to be recouped, and that hardly goes with a salary alone.

As somebody else has pointed out, police station budgets from the government are hardly sufficient, and so the police stations have to find their own budgets. Those often come from protection moneys of illicit businesses in the areas, such as casinos, motorcycle taxi stands, nightlife venues etc.

[jdinasia]

[Levent]

So what's so attractive to becoming a provincial police chief? Tens of millions of baht to buy yourself a job? How much do they earn once they become one, or is it just for the status and power?

[alexth]

So what's so attractive to becoming a provincial police chief? Tens of millions of baht to buy yourself a job? How much do they earn once they become one, or is it just for the status and power?

Well, you have the money, you get the power, you gain the status, multiply these and see what the result will be

Edited March 19, 2007 by alexth

[Isaanresting]

Let's face it, farangs are walking targets here.

Actually, to be fair here - for the average lower class Thai police extortion and brutality is far worse than for almost all farang. We westerners just see the surface of how deep this system runs.

Think he over reacted initially.

[h90]

So to make a sum:

you beat a guy who teased you with a tree branch, I don't know how hard, but in most country this brings you in trouble.

At police you told them a wrong story (fresh tourist) and uncovered it yourself by speaking Thai.

And you wounder that you got threated like a bad guy?

He was beaten over the head repeatedly with a tree branch. This is usually considered as an attack, and pushing the offender off is self defense.

It is news to me that pretending not to speak Thai is an offense, and also that Thai law states that anybody is allowed to be beaten up in a police station, unless the officers have to defend themselves.

What I read here is not beaten over the head repeatedly, who will allow to get beaten more than once. What I understand here is that he got teased. The usual way of self defense is: inform the restaurant that you want them to get rid of the bugger, if that does not help, to leave.