Bad Police Experiences

[November Rain]

I just hope that all of you decrying ColPyat's advice on this thread never have the misfortune to find out how right he is. With the (admittedly insignificant) experiences I've had, I agree with him wholeheartedly. The OP seems to also. I guess as ColPyat said, you have to have been screwed to know the truth of the matter.

[ColPyat]

The fact that we have western people here backing up police brutality is terrible. You expect it from Thais who, after all, will back the worst of their people against the best of us, but not from those who should know better.

Don't underestimate the capacity for compassion by Thais here as well. In the end they are just human. It's only that the average Somsak has to suffer from the same, and often even worse brutality, without the option of being able to leave when things get too much, or the fear of authorities that prevents most of the time the worst abuses when westerners are involved.

Not all Thais are blindly nationalistic, there are more than a few of all classes who do not agree with such barbaric abuses of power, or the primarily for Thais in their own society unfair status quo that enables such abuses in the first place. I am happyly married with one.

Unfortunately this is touching subjects which are not safely discussed in public.

[ColPyat]

With the (admittedly insignificant) experiences I've had,

That's a bit of an understatement, if i may say so.

What you described is a pure nightmare.

[Sing_Sling]

The fact that we have western people here backing up police brutality is terrible. You expect it from Thais who, after all, will back the worst of their people against the best of us, but not from those who should know better.

Strange, that was my thought as well.

Some drunk dimwit starts belting you with a stick . . . yes, that's funny. It continues . . . yes, that's funny.

Cops start beating an innocent man . . . yes, that's funny. More power to them then, after all, we are in Thailand, and as foreigners we must accept that anything is acceptable from anyone.

What rot, bunch of hypocrites.

[solo siam]

There is another Thai forum I subscribe to and they have a very similar thread, but about how GOOD their experiences are with the police.

I'm sure there are bad police as well as good ones, however I have never had an issue with them, in fact I've experienced worse in the US for example. As in all things there are always two sides to every story, and the OP starting this thread certainly isn't going to make himself look bad. At the end of the day if you push someone who's drunk to the ground in Thailand (or elsewhere) then it's going to end in trouble anyhow.

[ColPyat]

I'm sure there are bad police as well as good ones, however I have never had an issue with them, in fact I've experienced worse in the US for example.

The question though is how much real involvement did you have with police here in Thailand?

I have very regular involvement with police, due to having been with the rescue for several years, up to the point that my local police station calls me up to translate whenever a foreigner got into trouble here in my district.

I have had obviously very positive experiences with cops, especially when cops have openly told me about the problems within the force, cops who let suspects go because they felt compassionate, and i have been witness to extreme abuse of power by cops, up to them covering up a mysterious death of a suspect in a police station, or (unsuccessful) attempts of cops to blackmail me into working as a snitch to trap foreigners into buying drugs.

I do know cops who are very good, honest and capable cops, whose investigative work i was able to observe, including interrogations. But i also know cops who are drug dealers and murderers.

In order to judge police work in Thailand, you have to get personal insights beyond the superficial, IMHO.

Edited March 20, 2007 by ColPyat

[kankaroo]

There is another Thai forum I subscribe to and they have a very similar thread, but about how GOOD their experiences are with the police.

I'm sure there are bad police as well as good ones, however I have never had an issue with them, in fact I've experienced worse in the US for example. As in all things there are always two sides to every story, and the OP starting this thread certainly isn't going to make himself look bad. At the end of the day if you push someone who's drunk to the ground in Thailand (or elsewhere) then it's going to end in trouble anyhow.

Here mate I think you should check out this website : http://www.policespecials.com maybe useful for you if you are ever in the UK. I believe someone like yourself would be very invaluable to this lot

Edited March 20, 2007 by kankaroo

[jdinasia]

There are some people on this forum that no matter WHAT the topic ... you just cannot discuss things with. They will cart out story after story after story to prove that what is basically an indefensible position is fact. Sadly those stories are never verifiable.

Can a person get into a bad way with the police in Thailand? Yes! Can it happen elsewhere? Yes! is being smart and avoiding conflict when your life is not at risk a better idea than pushing drunks after you have had a few yourself? YES! Is there really anything else to say here? No!

[lazeeboy]

An earlier topic on this board about a guy who had a bad experience with a traffic cop jogged my memory of an incident which happened to me in Bangkok last year. Not posted here for ages (as am back in UK ) so I thought I'd share it and see if anyone has similar experience (and if so just how common is this type of thing?!?!)

Worst experience with police I had..........I was eating a fish at the side of the road by myself in BKK while chatting with the staff when some pissed up Thai guy taps me on the head with a tree branch. He kept on doing this getting harder every time so I flipped out - stood up and pushed him on hiss ass.

Boss of the restaurant runs out & tells me I have to go and that he "is police" so please pay up and go. I pay & leave without getting my change and start pegging it down the street to get a taxi REAL QUICKLY when a pickup truck screeches besides me and 2 police jump out and grab me (this time they are in uniform) then handcuff me to the back of the pickup crowds are gathering to witness the spectacle and the guy I threw on his ass returns the favour. He is blind drunk and ranting at me and insists on getting in the pickup also.

OK so now I am sweating and the 3 Thai teen-punks who are also along for the ride chained up sitting across from me are absolutely loving the show unfolding before them and are pi55ing themselves laughing. I suppose they need a good sense of humour to take their minds of where they are headed.The Cop sitting next to me kindly informs me "you f****** farang you make big problem in Thailand, you in Thailand now <deleted>***** farang" etc etc etc. Having no idea what is coming next I just wait untill we arrive at the station.

While at the station I am told to sign my name and am punched on the side of the head when I try to do so with a chorus of laughter from all the cops there and also the teenage punks who are waiting to be processed. this happens again and I refuse to write anything when I am thrown to the floor and proceed to catch one hel_l of a beating. I couldn't do anything but curl up into a ball and take it. Anyway I am finally saved by an older cop who shouts at all the other cops and they leave me alone. The old dude speaks to me in Thai and I reply in Thai which sends him crazy as I pretended all the time that I was a tourist fresh off the plane ( don't ask me why I just thought it would look better )

Anyway in the end he shouts at me to get out and even opens the door for me !! only to kick me in the ass FULL FORCE as I walk out.

I don't need to be told twice and leg it as fast as possible out of there and jump into the nearest taxi without asking him if he will take me OR telling him where I am going (bai-nai? BAI BAI BAI LEEO LEEO !!!!) but he fully understood when I told him what had just happened.

That night my GF said that it had probably been my fault and that I should not have pushed the guy with the tree branch - some sympathy uh? but she changed her tune two days later when she saw me walking out of the shower with my sides,back and backside turning crazy purple/green/yellow shades due to the bruises. When she told her mum she went balistic & demanded to know what police station this happened in but I did not tell her as I believe that I got off very lightly compared to what could of happened. After all bruises will heal but a stint in the monkey house followed by deportation and blacklist...........

Be Careful..................

a few years ago i rent a car to a long term tourist unfortunatly he died went to the police (tourist) to claim my truck was asked for the paper work gave them the book but not in my name took over payments from thai friend was told i didnt own truck and couldnt have it went away with payment book bill of sale and still no joy the police man told me to go away i argued with him when he started to swear at me in thai speaking thai myself understood and gave him the full monty of my thai profanites wrong desision ended up in the cell for 12 hours then bundled into a pick up and taken to the real police station where they took his statement and then mine while being interveiwed the policeman ask me why i assaulted the tourist police officer ? not beleiving my ears i explained i insulted him explained the difference between the 2 words and he said oohhhhhh and left the room came back 10 minutes later and said maybe you better not go to court as if you are found guilty the insult slur could be translated to assault and maybe the next visa run they may not let me back in i had better pay the policeman 80000b and he would drop the case but at least i got the truck back motto is dont say too much as they twist it in there favour i just wonder how many people they have conned by twisting words and scaring people into parting with there money..........

[ColPyat]

Sadly those stories are never verifiable.

They are easily verifiable.

A polite PM (polite means not what some mistake as humor or teasing, a promise of both sides to respect the privacy of the other, which then, if both sides are confident of the safety aspects, might lead to a personal meeting, in which verification can easily be shown).

It's not the first time i have told you this, but you prefer to engage in flames and insults than allowing yourself to be convinced of your mistaken views. The problem though is, that after the many personal insults from you i had to bear with, i am more than wary of meeting somebody like you, and there would have to come first a period of insult free posts before i would ever trust you.

To begin with, you could, if you are not just interested in insulting me, have a look through my posts, and see if there are any discrepancies of my personal claims. A liar usually won't be able to keep up an elaborate invented history without having some serious discrepancies between the personal details he divulged. If you find any obvious discrepancies, you may PM me for an explanation.

Unfortunately though, i am afraid that your main interest is just sitting on your keyboard, and publicly insult and bait me. I see very little chance that you can prove me wrong with this assessment of your intentions. And therefore i will unfortunately have to keep living with those bad mannered and unfounded accusations.

And now, i do hope we can go back to the topic without any further insults, accusations and baits, please.

[kankaroo]

That last post reminds me.....when I first arrived the station (unaware that I was about to get my ass kicked) I realized that things could get really grim for me and at best case scenario I would be let off but never allowed to return to Thailand again. I remembered I had around 15000 in my wallet and pathetically asked one of the "officers" if we could settle this with a "fine". The reply from the guy was somewhere along the lines of "keep your f******* money you f******* farang you in big trouble now" etc etc.

Good thing for me was they only really wanted to kick my ass but didn't take ANY money from me- not even 20 baht ??? Strange compared to what I had heard but hey, I would rather take the beating and hold on to my 15k ANY DAY. They were very careful not to make any marks on my face etc. all punches to the temple and head not face.

Yeah it was wrong but I am free to visit Thailand anytime I want. I feel I got off pretty light considering.

and YES I have learned a lesson from all this.....wouldn't you?

[IMChris]

Always more to it than these stories tell, Every single story I've seen happen or have heard from both sides it seems that it is deserved.

So someone is tapping you on the head with a twig? so what, ignore it, leave or turn it into a joke - no reason to start pushing people about. I've only ever been treated with the upmost courtesy by the police and I've seen people push their patience, a lot - Only when pushed to the very brink will they react - and then its with reasonable force.

Seriously, if you enjoy violence, then keep it at home, no point coming here - I have yet to see someone push someone else over in a friendly manner, if thats your only recourse to someone acting a bit of a twit then best not to come here.

This is rather incredible.

A guy has been beaten repeatedly with a stick over the head by a drunk man who turned out to be a cop, was arrested for pushing that man, and beaten to a pulp in a police station, and there are people out here who tell him that it was his own fault to be victim of illegal police brutality, even defending the action of the cops!!!???

How long would you people tolerate some stranger beating you with a stick over your head while you have dinner? Are you walking away and say thank you, t'was awfully nice to be beaten, tomorrow again, please? Just because this is Thailand, and you are a foreigner it is perfectly alright for a stranger to beat you?

Excuse me, but most people could have ended up in such a situation, i would have. And i would hope that my official ID would be respected as usual, and not just ignored, as can happen when you deal with drunk brutal people with a chip on their shoulder.

The drunk did not wear uniform, and did not identify himself as a cop. Most people would not push a uniformed cop, naturally, even if he is in the wrong. I must say though that on one occasion i was screaming at two uniformed cops paid to arrest me when they wanted to enter my house illegally without a court warrant.

The OP was dragged to the police station, and beaten up. Nothing warrants such a treatment. And there is no law in Thailand that allows cops to beat anyone up who was arrested. There is no excuse for this. It happens here regularly, mostly to Thais, but it is illegal, regardless to whom this happens.

I don't understand you people. Just because you found your personal paradise in Thailand, you are going so far that you blank out anything that is terribly wrong in this country, and even accuse a person that landed in such a nightmare of having it brought upon himself.

Just because this is Thailand does not make it police brutality and abuse of power right.

I just wish you people so comfortable will never have to experience the terror of being at the whim of such dirty cops, or anybody else that has power over your life.

I really wish you would read the post first, then put your brain in gear, then respond!!!

The OP was NOT being 'beaten over the head' with a stick!!!!

He was 'tapped' on the head with a tree branch!!!

At that stage it would be obvious that the perpetrator was drunk and possibly looking for trouble. The best advice is to leave your 20baht khao pat on its plate and walk away, live to fight another day.

In relation to your experience, I am surprised that you found yourself in that position. I thought that you , like myself,were able to make a quick phone call to your 'contacts' and the problem would be resolved. It seems your contacts are not highly placed?

Anyway back on topic. The OP should have walked away, even though what happened to him was wrong, it could have been avoided

I was always taught NEVER PEE IN THE WIND.... My best friend that I have known all my life lives here in the States, hates cops and has been arrested many times. I have never been arrested nor have had a bad cop experience. Why ?? I dont do things that can get me in trouble. My friend is always working that gray area of the LAW. Personnaly I stay away from Bars and places that Bad people my go.

[bkkmadness]

The guy was at a restaurant not a bar where bad people go. Bad cop experience can happen to anyone.

[solo siam]

There is another Thai forum I subscribe to and they have a very similar thread, but about how GOOD their experiences are with the police.

I'm sure there are bad police as well as good ones, however I have never had an issue with them, in fact I've experienced worse in the US for example. As in all things there are always two sides to every story, and the OP starting this thread certainly isn't going to make himself look bad. At the end of the day if you push someone who's drunk to the ground in Thailand (or elsewhere) then it's going to end in trouble anyhow.

Here mate I think you should check out this website : http://www.policespecials.com maybe useful for you if you are ever in the UK. I believe someone like yourself would be very invaluable to this lot

Wow, thats really quite strange, how in your mind do you balance what I said about not fighting drunk people, with me suddenly wanting to move back to England and join the police, for free!!!

Theres prenty of drunk farangs around here, fighting during the day - thinking they are tough, leave it in England - it's not impressive to get drunk and have fights in foreign countries, its all rather sad actually, you probably thought you were being clever".

[bkkmadness]

There is another Thai forum I subscribe to and they have a very similar thread, but about how GOOD their experiences are with the police.

We have the same good police experience threads here.

[kankaroo]

Wow, thats really quite strange, how in your mind do you balance what I said about not fighting drunk people, with me suddenly wanting to move back to England and join the police, for free!!!

Theres prenty of drunk farangs around here, fighting during the day - thinking they are tough, leave it in England - it's not impressive to get drunk and have fights in foreign countries, its all rather sad actually, you probably thought you were being clever".

Wow, farangs who are "fighting during the day- thinking they are tough" (as opposed to night ). I'm not knocking you but you must have some first hand experience of this type of situation since you are qualified to talk about it.....although you have never been involved. GOOD MAN YOURSELF !! I suppose is it better to RUN AWAY AND LIVE TO FIGHT (or not) ANOTHER DAY !! :D

Anyway, I'd rather not "leave it in England" as I have never lived there and only driven through - I live in Scotland.

And as for the "you probably thought you were being clever" comment, ahhh I'm afraid you got me on that one. Yes sir there is nothing that makes me feel (and look) more clever than eating a nice fish in a restaurant and then just flipping out and attacking police - or anyone who looks in my direction for that matter. That old chestnut

Sir, you are a buffoon and I bid you good day.

[bkkmadness]

Loving it Kankaroo! Hey man dont forget you had the honour of putting one of Thailands finest flat on his arse and every dude in that restaurant knows it. What a loss of face for the prick, knocked on his butt by a Scottish man enjoying his fish supper.

I didn't really get the 'rather have 15 K over a kicking' comment earlier, now I know your nationality the mystery has been cleared up.

[Nebukanezar]

6 Years in Thailand and no bad cop experiences, actually quite decent compared to the many ignorant racist bastards I have had the misfortune to run across in the States.

[kankaroo]

Loving it Kankaroo! Hey man dont forget you had the honour of putting one of Thailands finest flat on his arse and every dude in that restaurant knows it. What a loss of face for the prick, knocked on his butt by a Scottish man enjoying his fish supper.

I didn't really get the 'rather have 15 K over a kicking' comment earlier, now I know your nationality the mystery has been cleared up.

Yes indeed ! In Thailand I would often crave a battered haddock & chips. but now i'm here I long for a spicy steamed sea bass /red snapper /yam pla-duk foo (my fave ) The rest of the planets right - UK food is crap

[November Rain]

Just an aside for everyone saying that kankaroo should have walked away, that he was only being "tapped", or that he was only being teased.... Whether this guy turned out to be police as he unfortunately did,or not, is immaterial to the insult intended by him. He was hitting kankaroo on the head! It was meant to be an insult & inflame. We are all told, rightly, when we come to LoS "never touch the head, it's a revered part of the body". For someone to repeatedly touch/tap/hit your head is a calculated insult designed to inflame. If this story were the other way around & kankaroo had been touching a Thai guy enjoying his dinner on the head with a stick, would you all be saying "The guy should have walked away, he should have ignored it, he shouldn't have got riled"? Of course not. You would be calling kankaroo all the names under the sun for being so stupid & insensitive. Difference being, if kankaroo had done it to a Thai, he probably wouldn't be alive to post about his experience on here.

[davidjtayler]

Just an aside for everyone saying that kankaroo should have walked away, that he was only being "tapped", or that he was only being teased.... Whether this guy turned out to be police as he unfortunately did,or not, is immaterial to the insult intended by him. He was hitting kankaroo on the head! It was meant to be an insult & inflame. We are all told, rightly, when we come to LoS "never touch the head, it's a revered part of the body". For someone to repeatedly touch/tap/hit your head is a calculated insult designed to inflame. If this story were the other way around & kankaroo had been touching a Thai guy enjoying his dinner on the head with a stick, would you all be saying "The guy should have walked away, he should have ignored it, he shouldn't have got riled"? Of course not. You would be calling kankaroo all the names under the sun for being so stupid & insensitive. Difference being, if kankaroo had done it to a Thai, he probably wouldn't be alive to post about his experience on here.

Just because someone wants to fight you (either indicated by their actions or verbally) doesn't mean that you have to automatically fight them.

If I had fought every drunk that wanted a peice of my sorry arse then I would be a very weary guy by now.

Very rarely there are occasions where fighting your way out of a situation is the only option (if a fist is already coming your way) but that is a last resort and as been posted time and time again, by many people, walking away normally dissolves the situaton.

I'm not knocking kankaroo for his reaction as the other guy clearly deserved a clump for what he was doing but at the end of the day kankaroo got a kicking which possibly could have been avoided had he walked away.

It's the end result that counts here as avoidable kickings are always best avoided.

I'm also not knocking the Colonel as it sounds like his approach works for him in his enviroment but my way works for me in my enviroment and until that enviroment changes I see no reason to change my tactics.

It's also interesting to note that although the Colonel has heavily advocated the proaction reponse to situations of this kind he also states that he hasn't actually been involved in a fist fight for 20 years... sounds to me like a case of ... 'do as I say but not as I do'.

[ColPyat]

It's also interesting to note that although the Colonel has heavily advocated the proaction reponse to situations of this kind he also states that he hasn't actually been involved in a fist fight for 20 years... sounds to me like a case of ... 'do as I say but not as I do'.

You are jumping to conclusions here. I consider myself lucky that i was not personally involved in a fistfight here. But i know many people who are also not testosterone driven louts and still ended up in ugly situations.

Shit happens, occasionally. Don't be jaded.

[solo siam]

Anyway, I'd rather not "leave it in England" as I have never lived there and only driven through - I live in Scotland.

enough said really

I can see how it went down now, you sitting there eating dinner, a twig from a nearby tree gets blown off in the wind, accidentally brushing your head - Chaos ensues and nearby people are beaten.

[davidjtayler]

It's also interesting to note that although the Colonel has heavily advocated the proaction reponse to situations of this kind he also states that he hasn't actually been involved in a fist fight for 20 years... sounds to me like a case of ... 'do as I say but not as I do'.

You are jumping to conclusions here. I consider myself lucky that i was not personally involved in a fistfight here. But i know many people who are also not testosterone driven louts and still ended up in ugly situations.

Shit happens, occasionally. Don't be jaded.

You're the one who stated that you hadn't been involved in a fist fight for 20 years .. that's not a jumping to conclusions that's a clear statement posted by yourself.

So it seems to me that in the last 20 years at least you don't respond aggressively to situations of this kind or else you would have been involved in a fist fght ... kind of oxymoron here ... conflicting advice.

Not sure where you get the jaded bit from as I'm certainly one of the least jaded people you will meet...of course shit happens everywhere, that's life, but you can at least you can lessen your chances of being hit by the shit by behaving non aggressively.

Anyway, I dont really care how you deal with these situations as whatever works for you work for you, but at least the punters reading this thread know that there are many people here who don't react aggressively to these situations and don't get unecessary kickings.

[ColPyat]

So it seems to me that in the last 20 years at least you don't respond aggressively to situations of this kind or else you would have been involved in a fist fght ... kind of oxymoron here ... conflicting advice.

At times, when appropriate, i do respond aggressively, in careful doses, mostly verbally though.

But I have pushed people off me, occasionally, when i needed to, and there was no other way out. If a stranger would hit me over the head with a stick, chances would be that i would do exactly the same as the OP, if faced by a lone stranger.

As i said already many times here, i do hope that i will not ever get into such a situation here. And neither should anybody else. Somebody like the drunk cop in this case, who does something like this, is usually out for a fight, and will, if the initial provocation does not work, employ other measures to get his fight.

The next one would most likely been a bottle cracked over the head of the OP, while walking away, which you seem to suggest as the right decision.

[andook]

Its difficult for a lot of people to not react to such extreme provocation. The Thai guy provoking the reaction obviously knew the odds were well on his side before even starting his <deleted>.... As they do..... If smiling and walking away isn't possible, you'd better hit someone as hard and violently as you can, before making a rapid exit. And keep running....

[moxhan]

Not just police when we confronted will put us in danger. Recalling years ago while I was driving in pattaya and suddenly a car wanted to cut into my path and I honked.... guess what? he overtook, cut into my path and braked in front of me. He came down from his car and opened my door and started shouting at me #@%???. When I trying to reason out with him, he said "THIS IS THAILAND!" I was so furious that I pulled out a iron bar (a steering lock) and he quickly ran back to his car and start making phone call and shouted at me to stay. I immediately drove off my car as fast as possible. While driving off, honestly in my mind I was quite worried he will follow. Thinking back now, I might have got myself kill. Cultural difference sometime causes perception crashed, a little more sensitive and patience will probably get us a long way.

[davidjtayler]

So it seems to me that in the last 20 years at least you don't respond aggressively to situations of this kind or else you would have been involved in a fist fght ... kind of oxymoron here ... conflicting advice.

At times, when appropriate, i do respond aggressively, in careful doses, mostly verbally though.

But I have pushed people off me, occasionally, when i needed to, and there was no other way out. If a stranger would hit me over the head with a stick, chances would be that i would do exactly the same as the OP, if faced by a lone stranger.

As i said already many times here, i do hope that i will not ever get into such a situation here. And neither should anybody else. Somebody like the drunk cop in this case, who does something like this, is usually out for a fight, and will, if the initial provocation does not work, employ other measures to get his fight.

The next one would most likely been a bottle cracked over the head of the OP, while walking away, which you seem to suggest as the right decision.

You're getting hypothetical now, introducing bottles into the scenario ... of course anything can happen whilst you walk away whether it's a bottle, knife or gun but you are more likely to encounter these problems if you square up and react aggressively to the perpertrator than if you walk away.

[ColPyat]

You're getting hypothetical now, introducing bottles into the scenario ... of course anything can happen whilst you walk away whether it's a bottle, knife or gun but you are more likely to encounter these problems if you square up and react aggressively to the perpertrator than if you walk away.

I am not getting hypothetical.

I have witnessed fights and picked up the casualties of altercations here on more occasions i can count, and therefore do speak out of experience how those things develop and escalate here, and in many different situations. You can make educated guesses of possible outcomes and developments.

I would not know anymore about the culture specific codes in most western countries, because i haven't lived there in a very long time for a long enough period of time. But here in Thailand i do imagine myself rather at home in such conflict development situations.

That is one of the reasons why i have already posted that i do stay away from drunk strangers here as far as i can when i am not with friends, so that i do not get into such a situation in the first place. Simply because i have seen to many times here that certain otherwise hidden or suppressed chips on the shoulder regarding farang come often out in full, when people are drunk, and then escalation happens mostly in a speed and brutality that most foreigners are not used to.

I may be overly careful, but as a general rule, i do not go out at night alone in areas i do not have friends, where i am not well known, just as a precaution. Because i have seen too many times what can happen, and know that there is very little protection, including and especially "walking away".

You are not bound to pay any attention to what i post, it is entirely up to you. Just make your own experiences. I have made mine, and my accumulated experiences are the content of my posts.

And instead of knocking the OPs post, and find faults in his behavior, i prefer to add his experience and draw my own lesson out of it. Walking away when already in this situation it is though not, more like, it reconfirms my view to pay very careful attention to my surroundings, and don't get near to drunk strangers if i can avoid it.

And, most importantly, to be grateful that i did not have to face such a nightmare yet, even though there were man situations i could have if things would have went terribly wrong.

[davidjtayler]

You're getting hypothetical now, introducing bottles into the scenario ... of course anything can happen whilst you walk away whether it's a bottle, knife or gun but you are more likely to encounter these problems if you square up and react aggressively to the perpertrator than if you walk away.

I am not getting hypothetical.

I have witnessed fights and picked up the casualties of altercations here on more occasions i can count, and therefore do speak out of experience how those things develop and escalate here, and in many different situations. You can make educated guesses of possible outcomes and developments.

I would not know anymore about the culture specific codes in most western countries, because i haven't lived there in a very long time for a long enough period of time. But here in Thailand i do imagine myself rather at home in such conflict development situations.

That is one of the reasons why i have already posted that i do stay away from drunk strangers here as far as i can when i am not with friends, so that i do not get into such a situation in the first place. Simply because i have seen to many times here that certain otherwise hidden or suppressed chips on the shoulder regarding farang come often out in full, when people are drunk, and then escalation happens mostly in a speed and brutality that most foreigners are not used to.

I may be overly careful, but as a general rule, i do not go out at night alone in areas i do not have friends, where i am not well known, just as a precaution. Because i have seen too many times what can happen, and know that there is very little protection, including and especially "walking away".

You are not bound to pay any attention to what i post, it is entirely up to you. Just make your own experiences. I have made mine, and my accumulated experiences are the content of my posts.

And instead of knocking the OPs post, and find faults in his behavior, i prefer to add his experience and draw my own lesson out of it. Walking away when already in this situation it is though not, more like, it reconfirms my view to pay very careful attention to my surroundings, and don't get near to drunk strangers if i can avoid it.

And, most importantly, to be grateful that i did not have to face such a nightmare yet, even though there were man situations i could have if things would have went terribly wrong.

There seems little point in continuing this debate between ourselves (you and I) as you have your experiences and I have mine and therefore our recommended actions will always be very different ... lets beg to differ on this one.

At then end of the day as long as we can avoid violence or harm coming our way that's the most important factor.

Punters ... you've read the thread, you can make your own minds up what to do !

Just stay out of trouble !