36 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Parliament is the necessary realistic corrective of popular will.

What is the best that is feasible for a country?

Realism, feasibility, affordability, future suitability, consistency, security must be weighed. And there is no need to hurry, the UK is not in a war.

 

If it goes for the sake of the people, all taxes would have to be abolished, each one gets a house for free and 1 million on the account as Gift.

 

And after more than 3 years of chaos I have my doubts if there is even a majority for a No Deal brexit.

 

A responsible leader would want to check that in the population and parliament.

 

Brexit is not a decision to pay £ 10 more childrenmoney, but has decades long impacts on the population.

 

 

 

 

Oh, now I understand ....parliament is there  to correct democracy because the great unwashed  "know not what they do"

 

 

Sheer bloody arrogance!

 

 

Guy Fawkes was thinking along the right lines....... how I wished he lived in Brussels.

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

The scars of losing the referendum run deep in you, don't they.

I guess your rule of engagement is when you've got nothing, make it personal.

Edited August 15, 20196 yr by bristolboy

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

I guess your rule of engagement is when you've got nothing, make it personal.

 

 

It's not personal....it's just that I have never seen any constructive or substantive in your posts.

 

 

They are your posts, if you consider that to be personal then so be it.

Just now, Jip99 said:

 

 

It's not personal....it's just that I have never seen any constructive or substantive in your posts.

 

 

They are your posts, if you consider that to be personal then so be it.

Except it wasn't my post you were commenting on.

And any comment that claims to discern the motives of a poster is obviously personal. And when that's all that the comment consists of, then it's purely personal,

10 minutes ago, thirdleg said:

In your infinite wisdom, please describe to me what happens to the GFA after No deal Brexit.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/31/ireland-hard-border-brexit-backstop-good-friday-agreement

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-46988529

 

http://theconversation.com/brexit-is-a-rejection-of-the-good-friday-agreement-for-peace-in-northern-ireland-114965

2 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

He now realizes that he's not going to get what he wanted and is setting up others to take the blame.

Just like Trump

14 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Oh, now I understand ....parliament is there  to correct democracy because the great unwashed  "know not what they do"

 

 

Sheer bloody arrogance!

 

 

Guy Fawkes was thinking along the right lines....... how I wished he lived in Brussels.

What are you lamenting?
The members of parliament are the elected representatives of the people.

 

If you want more direct democracy, such as the model of Switzerland, you should vote for the change of the system.

In the UK, binding referendums are not common.

And the Brexit referendum was very unlucky in its formulation. It was just popolistic. The brexit referendum had no action plan based, nor a timeline.

 

The result of this sentiment barometer is now 3 years of chaos, lost time and a lot of lost money.

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Johnson, who has been hailed by the U.S. president as "Britain's Trump",

Nothing to be proud about, and actually says it all, if you look at the mess that clown is creating in the rest  of the world

15 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Except it wasn't my post you were commenting on.

 

 

Yes it was.

 

It was this piece of sarcasm aimed at 'third leg':-

 

"Thank you for your reasoned explanation".

10 minutes ago, gamini said:

Just like Trump

Definitely. Also, same silly haircut. Same buffoonery. Same overblown sense of their own importance and same sized ego. Though, Boris doesn't mind reading words on a page.

Edited August 15, 20196 yr by Joe Mcseismic

5 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

What are you lamenting?
The members of parliament are the elected representatives of the people.

 

If you want more direct democracy, such as the model of Switzerland, you should vote for the change of the system.

In the UK, binding referendums are not common.

And the Brexit referendum was very unlucky in its formulation. It was just popolistic. The brexit referendum had no action plan based, nor a timeline.

 

The result of this sentiment barometer is now 3 years of chaos, lost time and a lot of lost money.

 

 

The members of parliament of not done their job. Their role is to carry out the mandate provided by those who elected them - not to embark on their own crusades.

 

The referendum was presented by the PM of the day and very clearly stated it's aims.......... Leave or Remain.

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

The members of parliament of not done their job. Their role is to carry out the mandate provided by those who elected them - not to embark on their own crusades.

 

The referendum was presented by the PM of the day and very clearly stated it's aims.......... Leave or Remain.

I thought Johnson said he was going to ‘get on with it’?

 

9 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Yes it was.

 

It was this piece of sarcasm aimed at 'third leg':-

 

"Thank you for your reasoned explanation".

But your comment was directed at Sheung Wan. Do you expect the posters here to be mind readers in respect to your comments?

And your other remark "Better than most that you have ever put forward." was a typical empty all purpose insult. I guess that's another tactic for people who are at a loss for reasoned arguments.

22 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

The members of parliament of not done their job. Their role is to carry out the mandate provided by those who elected them - not to embark on their own crusades.

 

The referendum was presented by the PM of the day and very clearly stated it's aims.......... Leave or Remain.

1.  Every elected parliamentarian must make decisions that are to the well of the totality of all.

 

2.Leave?
OK.
When and how exactly?

 

3. The Brexit is similar to the desire to build a new house. In the detailed planning now turns out that the plot size is not enough, the soil is contaminated, Problems with the property neighbors appear on which one had not previously thought and is unsuitable for residential purposes.
And BJ still wants to build there.
This is the Brexitsituation for me at this time now.

Edited August 15, 20196 yr by tomacht8

14 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But your comment was directed at Sheung Wan. Do you expect the posters here to be mind readers in respect to your comments?

And your other remark "Better than most that you have ever put forward." was a typical empty all purpose insult. I guess that's another tactic for people who are at a loss for reasoned arguments.

 

 

Ah, now you are Sheung Wan's minder..... ????

 

For the sake of simplicity consider the comment aimed at your post/s.

3 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

1.  Every elected parliamentarian must make decisions that are to the well of the totality of all.

 

2.Leave?
OK.
When and how exactly?

 

3. The Brexit is similar to the desire to build a new house. In the detailed planning now turns out that the plot size is not enough, the soil is contaminated, Problems with the property neighbors appear on which one had not previously thought and is unsuitable for residential purposes.
And BJ still wants to build there.
This is the Brexitsituation for me at this time now.

 

 

 

You must be a European?

 

1. No, they are accountable to their constituency.

 

2. Did you vote ?   The ballot paper said Leave or Remain, it did not come with a picture book.... you clearly needed one.

 

3. A redundant argument given No2.

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

The mandate for Brexit does not come from parliament, it comes from the people.

 

 

Parliaments job is to execute that mandate.

What is more, not only was the mandate announced by the referendum, it was confirmed by the last general election, on which the vast majority of MPs (Mr Hammond included yes?) stood on the platform of securing and carrying out that mandate; and subsequently confirmed by an act of parliament which made leaving the EU the law of the land. I believe Mr Hammond played a significant role in the government which introduced that act. I believe that he voted for it.

 

Is it any wonder that the "negotiations" that the Mrs May's government indulged in were as much of a sham as they were, if this duplicitous fellow was at the heart of that government.

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I thought Johnson said he was going to ‘get on with it’?

 

 

 

I believe he is.....

5 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Ah, now you are Sheung Wan's minder..... ????

 

For the sake of simplicity consider the comment aimed at your post/s.

"Ah, now you are Sheung Wan's minder..... ????"

It's an open forum. If you care to discuss issues with Sheung wan alone, that's what PMs are for.

 

"For the sake of simplicity consider the comment aimed at your post/s."

When your text and your invisible intentions collide, I'm gonna go with the text.

Edited August 15, 20196 yr by bristolboy

1 minute ago, JAG said:

What is more, not only was the mandate announced by the referendum, it was confirmed by the last general election, on which the vast majority of MPs (Mr Hammond included yes?) stood on the platform of securing and carrying out that mandate; and subsequently confirmed by an act of parliament which made leaving the EU the law of the land. I believe Mr Hammond played a significant role in the government which introduced that act. I believe that he voted for it.

 

Is it any wonder that the "negotiations" that the Mrs May's government indulged in were as much of a sham as they were, if this duplicitous fellow was at the heart of that government.

 

 

I think Corbyn is suffering memory loss on the Labour party election manifesto.

One of the consistent arguments put forward by Brexiteers is that the nation needs to unite behind Brexit.

 

How then does the divisive language accusing others of being ‘Collaborators’ further this need for cohesion?

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I believe he is.....

I’ve given my best advice on believing Johnson.

 

I did so with the sincere intent of helping his ‘believers’ avoid feelings of betrayal and disappointment.

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ve given my best advice on believing Johnson.

 

I did so with the sincere intent of helping his ‘believers’ avoid feelings of betrayal and disappointment.

 

You don't need to be a 'believer' to enjoy the breath of fresh air since May's departure.

20 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

You must be a European?

 

1. No, they are accountable to their constituency.

 

2. Did you vote ?   The ballot paper said Leave or Remain, it did not come with a picture book.... you clearly needed one.

 

3. A redundant argument given No2.

Yes i am a European.

And you from russia?

 

1. Every member of parliament should see as the first priority the well of his country.

2. Exactly the lack of the picture book makes it unclear aka the lack of a clear plan and the lack of a realistic timeline.

3. My building analogy describes the Brexit situation.

 

In order to get out of this situation, it is necessary to let the people and the parliament vote on whether they want in a majority the no deal Brexit.

 

If so, then BJ has a clear content mandate.

Edited August 15, 20196 yr by tomacht8

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I thought Johnson said he was going to ‘get on with it’?

Much of the nonsense currently doing the rounds seems to have been manufactured as a stocking-filler for the 'no news' month of August. If BJ needs a 'get-out-of-jail' card all he need do is withdraw any opposition to the Tilbrook case and we'll all have a Bobby Ewing moment, having already left the EU on 29th March.

Edited August 15, 20196 yr by evadgib

2 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes i am a European.

1. Every member of parliament should see as the first priority the well of his country.

2. Exactly the lack of the picture book makes it unclear aka the lack of a clear plan and the lack of a realistic timeline.

3. My building analogy describes the Brexit situation.

 

In order to get out of this situation, it is necessary to let the people and the parliament vote on whether they want in a majority the no deal Brexit.

 

If so, then BJ has a clear content mandate.

 

 

The people have already voted on whether they wish to leave or remain.

 

 

But you know that.

 

 

You will understand that whilst your interest in our Brexit process, as a European, is mildly interesting this is a matter for the UK.

8 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

The people have already voted on whether they wish to leave or remain.

 

 

But you know that.

 

 

You will understand that whilst your interest in our Brexit process, as a European, is mildly interesting this is a matter for the UK.

That's nice.
It may be that there are problems with neighbors, borderline definitions, trade practices, open unpaid bills, UK people living in other EU countries, EU people living in UK, residency issues, research, education and legal issues.

 

With a no deal brexit this will certainly not be clarified by mutual agreement.

 

You will not believe it, but Brexit has an impact on all countries of the EU and on all countries with which the EU has trade agreements.

2 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

That's nice.
It may be that there are problems with neighbors, borderline definitions, trade practices, open unpaid bills, UK people living in other EU countries, EU people living in UK, residency issues, research, education and legal issues.

 

With a no deal brexit this will certainly not be clarified by mutual agreement.

 

You will not believe it, but Brexit has an impact on all countries of the EU and on all countries with which the EU has trade agreements.

You will not believe it, but Brexit has an impact on all countries of the EU and on all countries with which the EU has trade agreements.

 

Maybe you should tell that to your EU leaders who at this moment in time doesn't seem to care about any consequences on any of their states they are supposed to be representing.

Nothing is going to change in the UK, we voted to leave the EU, if the EU doesn't want to respect our democratic choice that is for them and them alone to explain to their people why there is so many job losses.

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch

I have to agree with you on this point. This happened when Edward Heath lied to the public and we joined the EEC. Johnson is now trying to fix a 46 year painful crotch, as you boldly put it.

2 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

This is new to me, that there was a binding referendum for a no deal brexit.

there was not a binding referendum