After Germany hints at compromise, France tells UK: no new Brexit deal

[webfact]

After Germany hints at compromise, France tells UK: no new Brexit deal

By William James and Madeline Chambers

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson shake hands ahead of their meeting at the Chancellery in Berlin, Germany August 21, 2019. REUTERS/Fabrizio Bensch

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Wednesday challenged Britain to come up with alternatives to the Irish border backstop within 30 days, but French President Emmanuel Macron cautioned there would be no renegotiation of the Brexit deal.

 

More than three years after the United Kingdom voted to quit the European Union, it is still unclear on what terms - or indeed whether - the bloc's second largest economy will leave the club it joined in 1973.

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, a Brexiteer who won the premiership a month ago, is betting that the threat of "no-deal" Brexit turmoil will convince Merkel and Macron that the EU should do a last-minute deal to suit his demands.

 

Speaking beside Merkel at the German Chancellery, Johnson repeatedly said that the Irish border backstop - which is a protocol of the Withdrawal Agreement struck by his predecessor Theresa May - needed to be removed in full.

 

"It was said we will probably find a solution in two years. But we could also find one in the next 30 days, why not?" Merkel, Europe's most powerful leader, said.

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he was confident he could renegotiate Britain's exit from the European Union if the bloc lifted its requirement for a "backstop" to ensure free movement across the border with Northern Ireland. Lauren Anthony reports.

 

Johnson confirmed that she had given him 30 days to come up with alternatives and said there was ample scope for a deal. The two leaders had a constructive dinner of tuna, venison and chocolate tart, a British source said.

 

But just an hour after Merkel spoke, Macron said the demands made by Johnson for a renegotiation of the divorce deal, including the removal of the Irish backstop, were not workable as they currently stood. Johnson is due to meet Macron in Paris on Thursday.

 

Asked about the distance between the positions of London and the other 27 members of the EU, Johnson said: "If we approach this with sufficient patience and optimism, we can get this done. It's in the final furlong generally when the horses change places and the winning deal appears."

 

NO-DEAL BREXIT?

But with just over 10 weeks left until the scheduled departure, the EU has repeatedly said it will not renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and that it will stand behind member state Ireland.

 

As Johnson arrived, protesters outside the Chancellery gates shouted "Stop Brexit". Johnson and Merkel smiled and they joked about the British premier's German language skills.

 

Merkel has previously promised to discuss "practical solutions" to the Irish border insurance policy or "backstop" that Johnson says is unacceptable - but she has said the Withdrawal Agreement would not be reopened.

 

The German leader has suggested solving the Irish border riddle as part of the declaration on post-Brexit ties - a possible way to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

 

But France now believes no-deal Brexit is now the most likely Brexit scenario, said an official in Macron's office who cautioned that Berlin and Paris were united.

 

"Have no doubt that the French and German positions -- and elsewhere -- are the same. There's not the thickness of a cigarette paper between us," the French official said.

 

Once the nightmare scenario on the extreme edge of probability ranges, a 'no-deal' Brexit is now seen as a realistic possibility by both governments and investors.

 

Amid the political turmoil in London, little is clear. The alternatives are a delay, a last-minute deal, an election or even cancelling Brexit.

 

TRUMP AND MACRON

In Washington, U.S. President Donald Trump, who has been enthusiastic about Brexit but critical of May's negotiating strategy, offered Britain help while criticising the EU.

 

"They have not treated the UK very well," he said. "That's a very tough bargain they are driving, the European Union. We are going to see if we can work something out."

 

But Macron said a no-deal Brexit would be of Britain's own making, adding that any trade deal London cut with Washington would not mitigate the cost of crashing out of the bloc.

 

"Can (the cost of a hard Brexit) be offset by the United States of America? No. And even if it were a strategic choice, it would be at the cost of an historic vassalisation of Britain," Macron said.

 

Wrenching Britain out of the EU without a deal means there would be no arrangements to cover everything from post-Brexitpet passports to the trade arteries that pump capital, food and car parts between the two neighbours.

 

Many investors say a no-deal Brexit would send shock waves through the world economy, hurt the economies of Britain and the EU, roil financial markets and weaken London's position as the pre-eminent international financial centre.

 

(Additional reporting by Kate Holton, David Milliken and Stephen Addison in London; Joseph Nasr and Michael Nienaber in Berlin; Michel Rose and Richard Lough in Paris; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Alison Williams, Raissa Kasolowsky, William Maclean)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-08-22

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[pegman]

Non, Non 2 Boris

[leeneeds]

What an awful costly mess which ever way is taken,

ramifications will continue to be exposed for months and years after the deal is done,

wars have been fought over lesser issues.

[luckyluke]

 

So Mr Johnson agreed it is up to the U.K. to come up with a solution to the backstop problems. 

 

Mrs Merkel gives 30 days to Mr Johnson to come with a solution, which Mr Johnson agreed too. 

 

That's what Mr Johnson obtained in Germany. 

 

Next stop : France. 

[juice777]

"It was said we will probably find a solution in two years. But we could also find one in the next 30 days, why not?"

Looks like she just said anything to get the jester out if the room. That is a statement of utter nonsense if I have ever seen one.

There is no working solution we all know that I think it's the only thing both sides agree on.

Maybe they can iron it out like this

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Forethat]

"As Johnson arrived, protesters outside the Chancellery gates shouted "Stop Brexit". 

 

Now why would German protestors do that? Do they know something remoaners on here don't? If UK leaves the EU there will be so much more left for the Germans...what on earth could they have figured out...? 

[Chomper Higgot]

You don’t have a solution for the Irish border, you have 30 days to find one.

 

In what strange logic is that a compromise?

 

It’s a message to everyone, a Brexit deal has only thirty days left, thereafter make your choice.

 

third week of September is plenty of time for Parliament to get rid of Johnson after he’s failed, which he will.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Forethat said:

"As Johnson arrived, protesters outside the Chancellery gates shouted "Stop Brexit". 

 

Now why would German protestors do that? Do they know something remoaners on here don't? If UK leaves the EU there will be so much more left for the Germans...what on earth could they have figured out...? 

Has it crossed your mind the protestors were almost certainly expatriate British citizens?

 

There are very many living in Germany and all with ‘skin in the game’ but denied a vote on the matter.

[Forethat]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You don’t have a solution for the Irish border, you have 30 days to find one.

 

In what strange logic is that a compromise?

 

It’s a message to everyone, a Brexit deal has only thirty days left, thereafter make your choice.

 

third week of September is plenty of time for Parliament to get rid of Johnson after he’s failed, which he will.

Did you pay attention to the potential timeline I posted on here a few days ago? There's not enough time to stop Brexit by removing Boris from power.

[Forethat]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Has it crossed your mind the protestors were almost certainly expatriate British citizens?

 

There are very many living in Germany and all with ‘skin in the game’ but denied a vote on the matter.

Almost certainly British citizens? Personally, I at least make an attempt to provide official stats when I make claims, but I guess there's a reason why it's not your style.. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Forethat

[brokenbone]

typical thai xenophopia, cant get anything right,

low impulse control, vicious, you name it, they got it

 

sry wrong thread, i meant,

good luck

Edited August 21, 2019 by brokenbone

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Did you pay attention to the potential timeline I posted on here a few days ago? There's not enough time to stop Brexit by removing Boris from power.

Oh look I called you out for posting nonsense and you throw in an attempt at deflection.

 

We all make mistakes, we’ll all understand if you admit yours.

[welovesundaysatspace]

12 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Almost certainly British citizens? Personally, I at least make an attempt to provide official stats when I make claims, but I guess there's a reason why it's not your style.. 

Really? I couldn’t find any “official stats” in your post claiming those protesters are Germans.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Forethat said:

Did you pay attention to the potential timeline I posted on here a few days ago? There's not enough time to stop Brexit by removing Boris from power.

Do you live on planet Brexit? Of course there's plenty of time to have a vote of no confidence in the government and call a GE. Did you not read the timeline I posted here yesterday? If a GE were to be called the EU would undoubtedly give us an extension beyond October 31st, particularly if 2 parties campaigned on the platform of a confirmatory vote. Those 2 parties would undoubtedly form a coalition government and a confirmatory vote will be called. The Great British People will democratically vote to repeal Article 50 and this whole debacle will be at an end and we can all go back to being friends again. and a lot of the rank animosity can be removed from this forum.

 

As for the protesters outside the Cancellory, as another poster said, could be expats in Germany, who overwhelmingly want to remain in Europe but more likely Germans who see us Brits as good friends and realise the damage it will do to to both the 27 remaining countries in the EU, Germany in particular, and much more so the UK. A no deal Brexit was never on the table, get over it and prepare for sunny days when we finally decide not to abandon our European brothers.

[Somtamnication]

Do not listen to the French, Boris. Keep going towards Oct. 31! No one can stop us.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Almost certainly British citizens? Personally, I at least make an attempt to provide official stats when I make claims, but I guess there's a reason why it's not your style.. 

You stated, without these stats you claim to use, that the protestors where German.

 

I asked you if it crossed your mind that they are almost certainly British expats (a question for you to consider) and provided you a logical reason why that might be the case.

 

Stop digging, stop selecting and stop accusing me of making the false arguments  you yourself made.

 

Just do the right thing, admit your error, we’ll understand.

 

 

[Sticky Wicket]

36 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Almost certainly British citizens? Personally, I at least make an attempt to provide official stats when I make claims, but I guess there's a reason why it's not your style.. 

Be careful questioning certain people on this forum. They love nothing more to report and get you banned

Edited August 21, 2019 by Sticky Wicket

[DannyCarlton]

14 minutes ago, Somtamnication said:

Do not listen to the French, Boris. Keep going towards Oct. 31! No one can stop us.

 

The British people will stop you. We're not all zenophobic fools, heading towards the cliff edge like lemmings.

[Forethat]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh look I called you out for posting nonsense and you throw in an attempt at deflection.

 

We all make mistakes, we’ll all understand if you admit yours.

"third week of September is plenty of time for Parliament to get rid of Johnson after he’s failed, which he will."

 

And your mistake (as usual) is that you don't really know the details of procedures that are in play.... Suspending Brexit by removing BJ is simply not a feasible plan (even if a vote of no confidence is successful) You see, if BJ is removed, the parliament is dissolved 25 days before general election. So please go ahead and remove BJ as this is more or less a guarantee for Brexit on Oct 31.

 

At least you learned something new. And yes, you're welcome. 

 

 

 

[Sticky Wicket]

22 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Do you live on planet Brexit? Of course there's plenty of time to have a vote of no confidence in the government and call a GE. Did you not read the timeline I posted here yesterday? If a GE were to be called the EU would undoubtedly give us an extension beyond October 31st, particularly if 2 parties campaigned on the platform of a confirmatory vote. Those 2 parties would undoubtedly form a coalition government and a confirmatory vote will be called. The Great British People will democratically vote to repeal Article 50 and this whole debacle will be at an end and we can all go back to being friends again. and a lot of the rank animosity can be removed from this forum.

 

As for the protesters outside the Cancellory, as another poster said, could be expats in Germany, who overwhelmingly want to remain in Europe but more likely Germans who see us Brits as good friends and realise the damage it will do to to both the 27 remaining countries in the EU, Germany in particular, and much more so the UK. A no deal Brexit was never on the table, get over it and prepare for sunny days when we finally decide not to abandon our European brothers.

It's impossible to stop, quit crying and move on. Democracy will prevail in the end against these treacherous remainers

[DannyCarlton]

Just now, Sticky Wicket said:

I wouldn't question him, he will report you and get you banned

Good point. How many senior posters have been banned due to posts in Brexit threads? It's rediculous. Another well known forum banned political threads a long time ago, they were losing too many good posters due to the foul vitriol posted on political threads. You couldn't blame the TV mods for doing the same.

 

I lurked on this forum for years, using it for vital information on visas and several other subjects. It was a great help to me when I first moved to Thailand. However, I never created an account as the venom on other threads was palpable. Finally, having several years of experience living in Thailand I decided to create an account and give something back. Sometimes, I wish I'd never bothered.

[DannyCarlton]

8 minutes ago, Forethat said:

So please go ahead and remove BJ as this is more or less a guarantee for Brexit on Oct 31.

Not if the date is extended, it has been before and undoubtedly will be extended again.

[Forethat]

26 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Do you live on planet Brexit? Of course there's plenty of time to have a vote of no confidence in the government and call a GE. Did you not read the timeline I posted here yesterday? If a GE were to be called the EU would undoubtedly give us an extension beyond October 31st, particularly if 2 parties campaigned on the platform of a confirmatory vote. Those 2 parties would undoubtedly form a coalition government and a confirmatory vote will be called. The Great British People will democratically vote to repeal Article 50 and this whole debacle will be at an end and we can all go back to being friends again. and a lot of the rank animosity can be removed from this forum.

 

As for the protesters outside the Cancellory, as another poster said, could be expats in Germany, who overwhelmingly want to remain in Europe but more likely Germans who see us Brits as good friends and realise the damage it will do to to both the 27 remaining countries in the EU, Germany in particular, and much more so the UK. A no deal Brexit was never on the table, get over it and prepare for sunny days when we finally decide not to abandon our European brothers.

Here you go: 

 

3 Sept - House of commons reopens. No confidence vote prepped

12 Sept - No confidence vote. 14 days grace

26 Sept - 2nd vote - Boris Johnson loses

03 October - General election is called for. Parliament is dissolved as a General Election takes place

31 Oct - UK leaves the EU on No deal terms

7 Nov - General Election. Boris wins and we're back to square 1

 

You were saying...?

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, Sticky Wicket said:

It's impossible to stop, quit crying and move on. Democracy will prevail in the end against these treacherous remainers

It's very easy to stop and will be stopped. Democracy will prevail when the confirmatory vote tells you what a big mistake you made 3 years ago. I would call brexiteers tracherous as they're the ones trying to destroy the UK, but I'm not that crass and childish.

[Forethat]

30 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Really? I couldn’t find any “official stats” in your post claiming those protesters are Germans.

So...you're telling me there's a chance they were Namibian Himba herders...? Nah, I think they were Germans, the location sort of gave me a hunch.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Here you go: 

 

3 Sept - House of commons reopens. No confidence vote prepped

12 Sept - No confidence vote. 14 days grace

26 Sept - 2nd vote - Boris Johnson loses

03 October - General election is called for. Parliament is dissolved as a General Election takes place

31 Oct - UK leaves the EU on No deal terms

7 Nov - General Election. Boris wins and we're back to square 1

 

You were saying...?

Who says a general election will be called on the 3rd of October?

If Johnson gets the boot then an interim government can be set up and Brexit delayed or killed off.

They might decide the date for the election would be next year some time.

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Here you go: 

 

3 Sept - House of commons reopens. No confidence vote prepped

12 Sept - No confidence vote. 14 days grace

26 Sept - 2nd vote - Boris Johnson loses

03 October - General election is called for. Parliament is dissolved as a General Election takes place

31 Oct - UK leaves the EU on No deal terms

7 Nov - General Election. Boris wins and we're back to square 1

 

You were saying...?

You missed a step. 3rd Oct. Government asks for a 3 month extension to expidite the election and confirmatory vote.

[OneMoreFarang]

Merkel didn't give Boris anything. But she was smart enough to tell it to him in a way that he can't blame her for a no-deal Brexit.

 

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Merkel didn't give Boris anything. But she was smart enough to tell it to him in a way that he can't blame her for a no-deal Brexit.

 

Yep. A superb backhand return down the line and shouted, "Return that one Boris!" . The German Corey Geoff. What a gal.

[sammieuk1]

At least Boris got some chocolate tart out of them????