Money laundering offences land Dutch man, his Thai wife in jail for a long time

[Tomahawk21]

5 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

It is not an issue of why lie, it is a simple issue of not showing off!  At some point you may upset or bother somebody who will then take some negative action against you.  In this case, I think the Dutch were offended and therefore got very mean against the guy and invoked the Thai end of things.  Always better to keep a lower profile

agree to a point, but if your 100% kosher if you got it flaunt it. enjoy your hard work.

[blackcab]

A post commenting on moderation has been removed.

[Just Weird]

9 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

Do you really think that thai authorities are affraid or worried that Dutch government

will find out about bribes LOL?

No, but the Dutch may have a lot to say if the case had been swept under the carpet as a result of bribes being paid (that didn't happen) and that was my point!

[metisdead]

Some baiting troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Isaanbiker]

10 hours ago, ukrules said:

People routinely get less for murder

Perhaps just a slap on the wrist if you're somebody.

 

   

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

43 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

The money laundering was committed through Thailand, allegedly, as every recent report has emphasised

but he was not found guilty of any crime by the dutch authorities, that is

why there could not be any money laundering offence in thailand, because

his money was legit and legal (according to dutch laws) from the begining.

 

i know it is hard to get it, but i did read about this case, and i can conclude why it

is hard to get - because thai law is not based on justice, nor reason, and not even

on thai law itself, instead, many verdicts are given according to the feeling and sentiment

of the judge / prosecutor / top police involved, and even

the assets that are about to be gained from the case.

 

to clarify more, you can check the money laundry laws of thailand.

laws that thailand itself created, and changed according to international developments.

there is a list of crimes which will lead to money laundry charges, among them

is indeed drugs , bribes, and even, yes, prostitution.

only problem is that the dutch man was never found guilty of any drug related crimes 

in his home country.

he was only a suspect of tax evasion / irregularities - in holland, not in thailand.

and tax evasion is not a reason , in thailand and in most countries,

for money laundry persecution.

 

also interesting to mention that the maximum jail sentence in thailand,

according to thai law, for money laundry, is no more than 10 years.

so how did he get 100 / 75 / 20 years?

the answer is simple. the thai courts don't really follow the thai law.

instead they follow a "feeling" or special circumstances (in this case

the will to show to "the world"' i.e., european western countries and even International

financial institutions, how thailand is so tough on drugs and money laundry),

and that's what's so scary about thailand and it's "justice" system.

[Rimmer]

Some off topic posts and replies removed

[Just Weird]

17 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

but he was not found guilty of any crime by the dutch authorities, that is

why there could not be any money laundering offence in thailand, because

his money was legit and legal (according to dutch laws) from the begining.

 

i know it is hard to get it, but i did read about this case, and i can conclude why it

is hard to get - because thai law is not based on justice, nor reason, and not even

on thai law itself, instead, many verdicts are given according to the feeling and sentiment

of the judge / prosecutor / top police involved, and even

the assets that are about to be gained from the case.

 

to clarify more, you can check the money laundry laws of thailand.

laws that thailand itself created, and changed according to international developments.

there is a list of crimes which will lead to money laundry charges, among them

is indeed drugs , bribes, and even, yes, prostitution.

only problem is that the dutch man was never found guilty of any drug related crimes 

in his home country.

he was only a suspect of tax evasion / irregularities - in holland, not in thailand.

and tax evasion is not a reason , in thailand and in most countries,

for money laundry persecution.

 

also interesting to mention that the maximum jail sentence in thailand,

according to thai law, for money laundry, is no more than 10 years.

so how did he get 100 / 75 / 20 years?

the answer is simple. the thai courts don't really follow the thai law.

instead they follow a "feeling" or special circumstances (in this case

the will to show to "the world"' i.e., european western countries and even International

financial institutions, how thailand is so tough on drugs and money laundry),

and that's what's so scary about thailand and it's "justice" system.

"but he was not found guilty of any crime by the dutch authorities, that is why there could not be any money laundering offence in thailand, because his money was legit and legal (according to dutch laws) from the beginning".

At the time of the Thai prosecution did the Dutch authorities tell the Thai authorities that he was not guilty of any crime or did the Dutch tell the Thais that he was being investigated for serious crimes?   Obviously, they told the Thais that he was suspected of criminal activity, that is what instigated the Thai ML investigation.

 

"also interesting to mention that the maximum jail sentence in thailand, according to thai law, for money laundry, is no more than 10 years. so how did he get 100 / 75 / 20 years?  the answer is simple. the thai courts don't really follow the thai law". 

Yes, the answer is simple, 10 years per offence, just as it is in any other country, so the Thai courts did follow the law.  He was charged with 15 money laundering offences, not just one, so he was liable for up to 150 years.

 

"...and that's what's so scary about thailand and it's "justice" system".

What is just as scary is people who refuse to acknowledge the actual facts of a process, or the reasoning behind it, even though in this case it may seem that the Dutch were a bit hasty in putting this man in the firing line that he may otherwise have avoided.   That was Holland's fault, not Thailand's.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

No, but the Dutch may have a lot to say if the case had been swept under the carpet as a result of bribes being paid (that didn't happen) and that was my point!

well, the Dutch authorities had and still have a lot to say about this case, but

not because it was swept under somewhere but the other way around - because they

were and still are shocked by the severe sentence their citizen got.

they did'nt even asked to arrest him, just to confiscate his assets as

a preparation for investigation, because this is how things are done in europe.

but the thai authorities were hurry and happy to  confiscated all his assets

and gave him and his wife those heavy , propably illegal even according to thai laws,

jail sentences.

you see, when such huge amounts involved, they don't care even about the bribes.

there is so much money to be made from commisions on sales of his assets, that

they were more so quick, once the dutch gave them the green light, to take all

his assets and throw him in jail, just to make sure he stays there and don't ask

for his money back.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

3 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

"but he was not found guilty of any crime by the dutch authorities, that is why there could not be any money laundering offence in thailand, because his money was legit and legal (according to dutch laws) from the beginning".

At the time of the Thai prosecution did the Dutch authorities tell the Thai authorities that he was not guilty of any crime or did the Dutch tell the Thais that he was being investigated for serious crimes?   Obviously, they told the Thais that he was suspected of criminal activity, that is what instigated the Thai ML investigation.

 

"also interesting to mention that the maximum jail sentence in thailand, according to thai law, for money laundry, is no more than 10 years. so how did he get 100 / 75 / 20 years?  the answer is simple. the thai courts don't really follow the thai law". 

Yes, the answer is simple, 10 years per offence, just as it is in any other country, so the Thai courts did follow the law.  He was charged with 15 money laundering offences, not just one, so he was liable for up to 150 years.

 

"...and that's what's so scary about thailand and it's "justice" system".

What is just as scary is people who refuse to acknowledge the actual facts of a process, or the reasoning behind it, even though in this case it may seem that the Dutch were a bit hasty in putting this man in the firing line that he may otherwise have avoided.   

the dutch never told the thais that he is being investigated for serious crimes.

you can read about it in the link below.

he was never a suspect in any crime. there was only tax related investigation

and the dutch only asked to confiscate his assets before interrogation, because that's

is how things are done in europe.

but instead the thais were quick to give him and his wife those heavy outragous jail sentences,

deciding he is guilty of laundring drug money,

all i say here is based on what i was reading about this case, i don't

have any other information other than what i read on internet .

 

and no, 10 years maximum jail for money laundry does not mean 10 years

for "each one of the 15 offences".

such a twisted interpertation of the law happans when

the law agencies themselves are breaking the law, or trying to prove something

which is hard to prove.

absolutely disgusting and terrifying story which

should serve as a warning to anyone thinking of investing in thailand (and by

the way, i personaly hate cannabis and against legalising it).

 

https://www.bd.nl/tilburg/highway-to-hell-hoe-johan-van-laarhoven-in-de-thaise-bajes-belandde~aab372ad/?referrer=https://www.google.nl/&referrer=https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1120169-money-laundering-offences-land-dutch-man-his-thai-wife-in-jail-for-a-long-time/page/9/

 

 

[Just Weird]

2 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

well, the Dutch authorities had and still have a lot to say about this case, but

not because it was swept under somewhere but the other way around - because they

were and still are shocked by the severe sentence their citizen got.

they did'nt even asked to arrest him, just to confiscate his assets as

a preparation for investigation, because this is how things are done in europe.

but the thai authorities were hurry and happy to  confiscated all his assets

and gave him and his wife those heavy , propably illegal even according to thai laws,

jail sentences.

you see, when such huge amounts involved, they don't care even about the bribes.

there is so much money to be made from commisions on sales of his assets, that

they were more so quick, once the dutch gave them the green light, to take all

his assets and throw him in jail, just to make sure he stays there and don't ask

for his money back.

"they did'nt even asked to arrest him, just to confiscate his assets as a preparation for investigation, because this is how things are done in Europe"

That is not how it's done in Europe!  Assets cannot be confiscated unless it has been proven that they were attained illegally.  Prosecutors can ask the courts for an order to freeze assets pending an investigation but they are not confiscated at that stage.

 

"...but the thai authorities were hurry and happy to  confiscated all his assets and gave him and his wife those heavy , propably illegal even according to thai laws, jail sentences".

Thai authorities seized his assets pending the investigation, instigated on the request of the Dutch, after the guilty verdict, which were then disposed of, as per the laws of Thailand.

 

"...you see, when such huge amounts involved, they don't care even about the bribes. there is so much money to be made from commisions on sales of his assets..."

No, I don't "see", because that is incorrect, in money laundering cases the Thai authorities (or any other authorities, come to that) do not get "commissions" on the sale of assets, the state gets the lot.  If he had been cleared of the Thai charges his assets would have had to have been returned to him.

[Just Weird]

1 minute ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

the dutch never told the thais that he is being investigated for serious crimes.

you can read about it in the link below.

he was never a suspect in any crime. there was only tax related investigation

and the dutch only asked to confiscate his assets before interrogation, because that's

is how things are done in europe.

but instead the thais were quick to give him and his wife those heavy outragous jail sentences,

deciding he is guilty of laundring drug money,

all i say here is based on what i was reading about this case, i don't

have any other information other than what i read on internet .

 

and no, 10 years maximum jail for money laundry does not mean 10 years

for "each one of the 15 offences".

such a twisted interpertation of the law happans when

the law agencies themselves are breaking the law, or trying to prove something

which is hard to prove.

absolutely disgusting and terrifying story which

should serve as a warning to anyone thinking of investing in thailand (and by

the way, i personaly hate cannabis and against legalising it).

 

https://www.bd.nl/tilburg/highway-to-hell-hoe-johan-van-laarhoven-in-de-thaise-bajes-belandde~aab372ad/?referrer=https://www.google.nl/&referrer=https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1120169-money-laundering-offences-land-dutch-man-his-thai-wife-in-jail-for-a-long-time/page/9/

 

 

"the dutch never told the thais that he is being investigated for serious crimes, you can read about it in the link below.

Wasn't tax evasion/investigation mentioned?  This is an English-language forum, why do you think I could read Dutch?

 

"...and no, 10 years maximum jail for money laundry does not mean 10 years for "each one of the 15 offences".

Sorry, it does mean just that.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

1 minute ago, Just Weird said:

the state gets the lot.

haha...you are too naive...and who is the state? you are not in europe.

here in thailand the "state" is...well...go figure it out yourself.

 

2 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

That is not how it's done in Europe!  Assets cannot be confiscated unless it has been proven that they were attained illegally.

yes this is YES how it is done in Europe! assets can and are confiscated once the authorities

decide it is time to do it, BEFORE the trial and BEFORE verdict.

the reason for that is very simple: to make it difficult on the suspect to hide his assets.

than, only AFTER the assets are confiscated, starts the investigation, and some of the assets

might be released gradually, if the investigation proves they are not related.

this is how things are done in europe, and that is what the dutch authorities

tried to do in thailand, but they did'nt imagine the brutal - and draconian - ways

thai works.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

1 minute ago, Just Weird said:

"the dutch never told the thais that he is being investigated for serious crimes, you can read about it in the link below.

Wasn't tax evasion/investigation mentioned?  This is an English-language forum, why do you think I could read Dutch?

 

"...and no, 10 years maximum jail for money laundry does not mean 10 years for "each one of the 15 offences".

Sorry, it does mean just that.

you can translate the article in google...it is interesting...will answer most of your questions

[Just Weird]

1 minute ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

9 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

the state gets the lot.

haha...you are too naive...and who is the state? you are not in europe.

here in thailand the "state" is...well...go figure it out yourself.

 

9 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

That is not how it's done in Europe!  Assets cannot be confiscated unless it has been proven that they were attained illegally.

yes this is YES how it is done in Europe! assets can and are confiscated once the authorities

decide it is time to do it, BEFORE the trial and BEFORE verdict.

the reason for that is very simple: to make it difficult on the suspect to hide his assets.

than, only AFTER the assets are confiscated, starts the investigation, and some of the assets

might be released gradually, if the investigation proves they are not related.

this is how things are done in europe, and that is what the dutch authorities

tried to do in thailand, but they did'nt imagine the brutal - and draconian - ways

thai works.

"...haha...you are too naive...and who is the state? you are not in Europe. here in thailand the "state" is...well...go figure it out yourself".

I'm talking about the legal process here, not your Thaivisa speculative interpretation of it, regardless of whether your TV urban myth is a myth or not. 

 

"yes this is YES how it is done in Europe! assets can and are confiscated once the authorities decide it is time to do it, BEFORE the trial and BEFORE verdict".

That's not how it's done, anywhere. 

There's a big difference between assets being seized pending an investigation, putting them temporarily out of reach of the defendant until a verdict is given at which stage they may be permanently confiscated, and assets being confiscated which indicates that they are forfeited permanently.

 

"...dutch authorities tried to do in thailand, but they did'nt imagine the brutal - and draconian - ways thai works".

"Brutal and draconian" is your over-dramatic, subjective opinion  that doesn't alter the fact that the Dutch started all this and have the responsibility for it.

[Sujo]

13 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

"the dutch never told the thais that he is being investigated for serious crimes, you can read about it in the link below.

Wasn't tax evasion/investigation mentioned?  This is an English-language forum, why do you think I could read Dutch?

 

"...and no, 10 years maximum jail for money laundry does not mean 10 years for "each one of the 15 offences".

Sorry, it does mean just that.

No. Usually if the charges are for similar offences the sentence is concurrent, not cumulative

[Memento Mori]

Van Laarhoven didn´t do anything wrong. 1. He sold his weed legally at different legal shops. 2. He didn´t laundry money. 3. He payed his taxes. The issue, not more or less, was, did he pay enough tax. This was an ongoing discussion between Van Laarhoven and the Dutch Taxman. 

 

The guy never sold or bought weed in Thailand. He never whitewashed his money in Thailand or in The Netherlands. 

 

It's not something a government does easily: sending a Minister of Justice to another country trying to make things right.

 

Shame on you The Netherlands and shame on you Thailand, for convicting an innocent man and his wife. 

 

 

 

[Just Weird]

15 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

you can translate the article in google...it is interesting...will answer most of your questions

I got this so far, and it's enough for me to see that my comments on this thread are accurate... 

 

"the campaign was preceded by frequent consultations with the judiciary in the Netherlands. At the time of the raid, four police officers from Brabant are sitting in one of the many restaurants on the golf course grounds, waiting for the findings of their Thai colleagues".

 

"Public Prosecutor Lucas van Delft takes charge of the investigation. He suspects that The Grass Company is fiddling with accounting and is sending millions of euros away abroad through a complex corporate structure. A former buyer of the coffee shop chain has told the judiciary that The Grass Company deliberately raises too high purchase prices in the accounts and thus has to pay less tax to the State".

 

"in Luxembourg the trust office that would help The Grass Company to channel away the coffee shop monies".

 

"A request for legal aid is also sent to Thailand on 3 June. In it, justice asks Van Laarhoven and his wife to be interrogated, search their villa in Pattaya and seize all movable and immovable property".

 

"ateBut nothing is happening in Thailand yet: the Dutch request for legal assistance has not been picked up. Van Delft is afraid that Van Laarhoven and his companions will destroy potential evidence and bring their money to safety. He is told by liaison officer Olde Engberink that there is a possibility to get the Thai to take action faster: Thailand should independently investigate"

 

"Olde Engberink writes a letter to the Thai Attorney General on July 14 in which he insists on criminal proceedings against Van Laarhoven and his wife. The request is to do everything possible ("all necessary proceeding") to start a criminal case against the two suspects. Although Van Laarhoven's Thai wife is not a suspect in the Dutch criminal case, the letter states that she is involved in money laundering. The letter is crucial".

[Just Weird]

14 minutes ago, Sujo said:

No. Usually if the charges are for similar offences the sentence is concurrent, not cumulative

That can happen, it does not always happen, though, and consecutive sentences are common worldwide.

[Memento Mori]

If/when the Dutch government would think Van Laarhoven was wrong in the slightest way, do you think the Dutch government would send the highest boss of the Justice Department to Thailand to sort things out? 

[wolf81]

On 8/27/2019 at 8:21 PM, worgeordie said:

So charged with money laundering,but not  with exporting  marijuana,?

seems strange,i am sure his assets will find a good home.

Also no bail for him,but murderers..yes.

regards worgeordie

As far as I know he didn't export marijuana.

 

From what I understand he owned several coffeeshops in The Netherlands. Now in The Netherlands there is a weird regulation that a coffeeshop is allowed to sell marijuana, but legally it's not allowed for the shop to buy marijuana. Still, of course all coffeeshops in The Netherlands need some stock to sell. So these shops are forced to buy the marijuana illegally. But the Dutch government allows this to happen and in Dutch society this concept is called "gedoogbeleid" (loosely translated as: "toleration policy"). 

Now my guess is the Dutch tax agency suspects this coffeeshop owner to have bought marijuana but didn't pay the appropriate amount of VAT on the marijuana. Or perhaps there's some other weird reasoning. Now in Thailand it's illegal to sell marijuana and from what I understand this is the reason why mister Van Laarhoven has been put in Thai jail. But this doesn't make much sense to me as the Thai laws shouldn't be applicable to whatever his business was in The Netherlands. If mister Van Laarhoven indeed dodged taxes, he should be put in jail in The Netherlands, not Thailand.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

Olde Engberink writes a letter to the Thai Attorney General on July 14 in which he insists on criminal proceedings against Van Laarhoven and his wife.

49 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

 

INDEED this officer Olde Engberink is the one who started this mass, and is

the one accused of revenge motivated actions.

He later was removed from his position to a lower one.

but even if one attorney from one country "insists" on "criminal proccedings"' it

does not mean the thai authorities must start it. do you know the case of thai workers

stealing expensive jewelries from saudi arabia? the saudis also insisted on criminal

proccedings, after the thai suspects fled to thailand, but thailand never even arrested them.

 

did you also read how the dutch police agent in thailand was surprised when

they arrested the couple, and told them : "we never asked you to do that"?

 

and did you check what are the list of crimes mentioned in the money laundry act 2015

of thailand, the crimes that can lead to money laundry act?

tax evasion is not one of them. and anyway the dutch was never even a suspect

of tax evasion or drug crimes in thailand !!

so how can thailand sentence him to 20 years in jail for crimes he never even

was a suspect in doing here ? the right thing to do was arresting him and

deporting him to holland, where he was still a suspect, 

but than thailand would not get his assets.

it's as simple as that, and if you ave serious eye problems.

 

and if you don't think that 20 years in jail, plus 12 years to your wife, is a draconian and brutal

punishment for tax evasion, or even money laundry, than maybe you do belong in

this merciless country.

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

That can happen, it does not always happen, though, and consecutive sentences are common worldwide.

Not for similar offences. Its not that concurrent can happen. It is the norm. I have prosecuted hundreds of them in oz.

[worgeordie]

5 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

after the thai suspects fled to thailand, but thailand never even arrested them.

Yes they did,but he got a relatively light sentence for the 

value of the Jewelry he stole.it was only one man that

stole it.

regards worgeordie

[LaoPo]

19 hours ago, ukrules said:

You're forgetting about the 20 million Euro that he is being paid by his own government.

Nothing has been paid by the Dutch authorities yet and IF they will compensate him, whatever the amount, the money will likely not be handed to Van Laarhoven but used to pay his taxes he owes to the Taxman still...the story hasn't ended yet.

[LaoPo]

16 hours ago, balo said:

The biggest mistake of his life was to use a Thai bank account for his business. It doesnt matter if he sells legal drugs in Holland , or if he sell cars. The money from customers was transfered to Thailand. Millions of baht. A BIG mistake. If he had kept the money in Holland and paid his taxes, he would still be a wealthy man.

This is greed, and he ssked for it.

Sent from my SM-J610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Do you have a source for what you wrote? HOW did he transfer the money? With bags and suitcases full of cash to the bank and said: "hey can you transfer this to Thailand for me...?" not a chance..maybe via shady banks in Belgium, Luxembourg or Germany but not in Holland.

 

He went to Thailand already since 2008....that's 11 years ago. The prosecutor started to write to Thailand in 2014...

 

But I agree with you that he should have paid his taxes to the last penny....GREED took over like many other people who're so smart not to pay taxes.

 

[balo]

2 hours ago, LaoPo said:

HOW did he transfer the money? With bags and suitcases full of cash to the bank and said: "hey can you transfer this to Thailand for me...?" not a chance..maybe via shady banks in Belgium, Luxembourg or Germany but not in Holland.

 

He went to Thailand already since 2008....that's 11 years ago. The prosecutor started to write to Thailand in 2014...

All I know is he used his wife Kasikorn bank account if the news report is correct, and when he bought all the luxury cars and a property in Chonburi, I would think the money was transfered from this bank account, and explain why the police was suspicious when they checked the account . 
If he paid all of it in cash , maybe he had a way to get in large sums unnoticed, who knows.

[Sonhia]

I agree with a previous post, re: Thai justice system being inept.

 

I filed a case at the court in Ubon against my X Thai gold digger for extortion. On the day my lawer filed the case with the court for a hearing date, he was summonsed to the Judge's chambers and informed I had two options, retract the case or loose the case at the hearing! Thai justice for you. My X's aunt was secretary to the Judge. 

[BobBKK]

8 hours ago, Sonhia said:

I agree with a previous post, re: Thai justice system being inept.

 

I filed a case at the court in Ubon against my X Thai gold digger for extortion. On the day my lawer filed the case with the court for a hearing date, he was summonsed to the Judge's chambers and informed I had two options, retract the case or loose the case at the hearing! Thai justice for you. My X's aunt was secretary to the Judge. 

Depressing but expected. Sorry you had that.

[BobBKK]

21 hours ago, Memento Mori said:

If/when the Dutch government would think Van Laarhoven was wrong in the slightest way, do you think the Dutch government would send the highest boss of the Justice Department to Thailand to sort things out? 

What did he sort out?