bx.in.th alternative

[Conno]

Scary indeed. Especially for people who are living in Thailand [resident expats not temp tourists] but feel they are not subject to Thai tax rules because they are trading on a foreign exchange. I have read a few posts on different threads where people are admitting they are doing crypto transfers in and out of the country to trade on different exchanges, then bringing their coin profits back again. If you are living here full time then not a wise move given the latest clarification from the Thai Tax authorities. While BTC and the Alts are without doubt the beginning of a new paradigm, TPTB, everywhere not just Thailand, will be using ever tool in their book to try and maintain control of the old system. Until this battle is won or lost best to be cautious and informed and stay on the right side of the law.

 

In conclusion none of us know where this will be in 5 years time. I'm hoping it really is going to be a peoples money change for the better, but never underestimate the power elite. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Conno

[undholly]

Guys who can explain in easy way. If trade and withdraw money here every month not really big amount 60-100k. What about TAX? How to pay this? Looks like people just trade and withdraw and even dont know about this.

[tabarin]

There is more behind their sudden closure if you ask me. First that exchange was used by a black market person who got arrested on Koh Chang, then a Facebook scam last saturday with this news following right after. Was also started by a foreigner, would not be surprised if a new one opens very soon and turns out to be fully Thai owned. I mean, they did not even bother to sell the business + no explanations given, makes no sense at all.

Anyway, LUNO is a good alternative but not as easy with local currency / bank accounts.

Edited September 6, 2019 by tabarin

[Conno]

Undholly

 

I don't think there is an easy answer as the whole business [Tax] is a minefield and full of complexity. One other point is that ignorance of the law is never considered to be a legitimate excuse if caught out, anywhere in the world not just Thailand. My advice for anyone who is concerned would to be go and have a chat with a real expert on this subject. Maybe the law firm that I mentioned in my previous post would be a good start as they seem to specialise in the crypto field. I have no links to them and haven't contacted them myself yet but when the time comes I'm probably going to have to.  

[Conno]

Don't lose faith though as like I said previously there's a battle going on out there and hopefully we will win the day.....will be about time too.

 

Enjoy

 

[phycokiller]

8 hours ago, Conno said:

One other point is that ignorance of the law is never considered to be a legitimate excuse if caught out, anywhere in the world not just Thailand. 

unless you are trump jr

[Neeranam]

So I bought 2 million baht worth of XRP for myself and yank friend. When I cash it out, how will they know how much I paid for it - 10c - 50c?

Any country that is. I might want to deposit into my Scottish bank.

How would I do that btw?

[Tayaout]

29 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

So I bought 2 million baht worth of XRP for myself and yank friend. When I cash it out, how will they know how much I paid for it - 10c - 50c?

Any country that is. I might want to deposit into my Scottish bank.

How would I do that btw?

You can cashout via coinbase, kraken, bitstamp, etc. For tax you should ask a specialist. To know how much you paid my guess is they will ask a paper trail from the exchange where it was bought. 

[William Osborne]

It was one of the easier exchanges to deal with and to cash in/out......altou surprised people are still playing around with crypto.....thought most people had figured out it is utter garbage by now ????

[William Osborne]

52 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

So I bought 2 million baht worth of XRP for myself and yank friend. When I cash it out, how will they know how much I paid for it - 10c - 50c?

Any country that is. I might want to deposit into my Scottish bank.

How would I do that btw?

Not being smart or anything.....but why are you asking these questions after you dumped 2mil baht on it.......would you not play around with some small amount to figure out how it works..

[Neeranam]

15 minutes ago, William Osborne said:

Not being smart or anything.....but why are you asking these questions after you dumped 2mil baht on it.......would you not play around with some small amount to figure out how it works..

ACTUALLY the value of my coins went up x 300 and I took out my initial investment. So I'm now playing with house money. Sometimes no always one has to take a risk to get rich.

[Neeranam]

42 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

You can cashout via coinbase, kraken, bitstamp, etc. For tax you should ask a specialist. To know how much you paid my guess is they will ask a paper trail from the exchange where it was bought. 

Thanks , could  be hard if the exchange closes.

[Neeranam]

22 minutes ago, William Osborne said:

It was one of the easier exchanges to deal with and to cash in/out......altou surprised people are still playing around with crypto.....thought most people had figured out it is utter garbage by now ????

Most people don't even know about it.

 

[phycokiller]

8 hours ago, William Osborne said:

It was one of the easier exchanges to deal with and to cash in/out......altou surprised people are still playing around with crypto.....thought most people had figured out it is utter garbage by now ????

Im enjoying my early retirement. i dont care if its utter garbage, I prefer not having to work and being able to do what I want to being stuck in a job. difficult concept I know

[Conno]

Neeranam. "So I bought 2 million baht worth of XRP for myself and yank friend. When I cash it out, how will they know how much I paid for it - 10c - 50c?

Any country that is. I might want to deposit into my Scottish bank.

How would I do that btw?"

 

Firstly they will know how much you paid for it because it is the traders responsibility to declare the trades to the appropriate authority if you have made a profit on a tax event. If you choose not to do so and happen to be investigated, BX would have been obliged [had they remained open] to provide the inquiring authority with a complete historical record of your trading activity. The fact they are now closing down will not mean they simply destroy all the customers records. I imagine it is pretty standard operating procedure for the data of a financially regulated exchange to be either archived or submitted to some central authority. If as you say you have made a 300X gain on your crypto, either by trading or hodling, my advice would be as Tayaout suggested, seek some professional advice......especially if it is you intention to remain resident in Thailand.

 

I feel you also need to keep in mind that if you have been operating a BX account, you have already agreed to comply with their T&Cs when you initially signed up.

 

BX T&C in bold italics reproduced below.

Taxes

It is the customer's responsibility to determine what, if any, taxes apply to the trades you complete via the Website, and it is the customer's responsibility to report and remit the correct tax to the appropriate tax authority. The customer agrees that the company is not responsible for determining whether taxes apply to the customer's trades or for collecting, reporting, withholding or remitting any taxes arising from any trades.

 

The company reserves the right to withhold any amount of tax from the customer; if directed to do so by the Thai Revenue Department. 

 

Information Privacy

The company will keep your personal information safe by international standards and according to the customer service policy of the company. Usually The Company will maintain the personal information of the customer for a period of at least 10 years or the time required to comply with relevant laws. To use for resolving potential disputes later.

The Company reserves the right to disclose and deliver customer information to courts, government officials, government agencies or the person authorized by the law to request such information to the company or disclose in any other manner as required by law.

 

Secondly, legally you should not be considering cashing out to your Scottish bank. Once again the T&C are quite clear on this.

No foreign currency exchange

The customer must agree never to exchange assets purchased from the Website for any foreign currency other than Thai Baht.  The customer must also guarantee that any digital asset the customer sells at the Website have never been involved in exchange with any foreign currency other than Thai Baht.

 

For national currency deposits the company will accept only Thai Baht; all deposits must involve only Thai Baht and no other foreign currencies. All Thai Baht deposits must originate within Thailand. Any deposits sent in other foreign currencies, or originating from outside Thailand, will be rejected and forfeited.

 

By the way gentlemen please don't shoot the messenger here I'm only trying to keep you guys on a safe path. As I stated in my very first post I decided to start contributing to some of these crypto threads as I noticed many folks have been posting information which clearly shows some are playing with fire. 

 

I'm not a professional in this field by any means just an ordinary Joe with an extraordinary interest in the mechanics of money, making it, saving it. growing it and mostly trying to avoid losing it. 

 

????

 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Conno

[Neeranam]

I heard thie is useful  for cashing out.

https://www.scb.co.th/en/about-us/news/aug-2019/nws-planet-scb.html

[Conno]

On initial reading of the link it appears to me to be a purely fiat currencies service! Yea might be a big improvement for moving baht to GBP USD Euro etc but this doesn't appear to be addressing anything to do with cashing out of cryptos.

 

Maybe I'm missing something on first read but looks like the same on-ramp / off-ramp Fiat/BTC problems prevail.

 

Can't you just hodl your crypto Neeranam until we win the battle? Risky I know as we might lose lol.

[twig]

To me, best alternatives are decentralized exchanges, of which Bisq is really the only one for fiat trading:

https://bisq.network/

There's little liquidity there now in THB, but I remember a time when there was little liquidity on LocalBitcoins in USD; so, that's just a matter of us putting offers there.

The pro liquidity providers will create supply where there is demand, just as it happened on LBC...

 

Bisq allows bank transfers, cash deposits, and face-to-face trading using fiat of any kind or s-coins.

Bisq itself, doesn't require any KYC/AML, because it uses escrow, similar to the way LBC does, but you control your funds in your own wallet.

 

It's not good for small trades though, and your Bisq app has to be online to take or make offers.

It doesn't have a mobile app yet.

 

A centralized, but non-custodial alternative is:

https://hodlhodl.com/

It's more similar to the bx.in.th, but uses escrow in which you control your own funds.

So, it's like a hybrid of the latter and Bisq.

 

Last I heard, they don't allow those who are the property of "The Land of the Free". So, y'all are out of luck. Bisq seems the best option in non-custodial exchange realm for you.

 

[Conno]

Twig - Thx for the links bisq and hodl hodl are new to me will check them out.

 

Yea "Land of the Free" what a complete joke. American citizens are one of the most hounded nationalities on Earth. Orwell is alive and well in 2019.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Conno
spelling correction

[Tayaout]

I have BISQ and it has potential but volume too low for now. Hope it will improve. 

[twig]

10 minutes ago, Conno said:

Twig - Thx for the links bisq and hodle hodl are new to me will check them out.

 

Bisq has a relatively active YouTube channel and user forum, where users can get help and too much information:

 

 

Good luck! Be careful.

[William Osborne]

On 9/8/2019 at 11:23 PM, phycokiller said:

Im enjoying my early retirement. i dont care if its utter garbage, I prefer not having to work and being able to do what I want to being stuck in a job. difficult concept I know

Always a good idea to put your money in speculative risky investments when you retire......

[Conno]

Depends how much you've have got. If loaded then why not, retirement doesn't necessarily equal at deaths door. 

 

Could be argued that staying with what is considered "safe" could be riskier still.

https://www.activistpost.com/2019/09/fiat-currency-endgame-you-will-not-like-this-one-bit.html

Edited September 12, 2019 by Conno

[phycokiller]

2 hours ago, William Osborne said:

Always a good idea to put your money in speculative risky investments when you retire......

totally agree. actually I put the money in the speculative risky investment before I retired. but having made 6x on my original investment and having more then enough to live comfortably for the rest of my life I thought I may as well retire while I was at it

 

well, to be honest, I actually have slightly less bitcoin then I originally invested because I have been living off it, its just that the US$ has devalued so much that I have been able to retire

Edited September 12, 2019 by phycokiller

[longway]

There is a currently small crypto exchange that can transfer to thai banks and allow fiat deposits and trading too. It is trade.io and is based in hong kong. Its been open for about a year and they are gearing up for a big marketing push to drive volume. They are as legitimate as they come.

[moldresistant]

 

Interesting... the bx.in.th website clearly states "We are no longer offering crypto-currency trading services." but their Twitter account posts this?!

[Tayaout]

2 hours ago, moldresistant said:

 

Interesting... the bx.in.th website clearly states "We are no longer offering crypto-currency trading services." but their Twitter account posts this?!

They are still processing withrawal and they also have other business venture. 

[Tayaout]

Game over for low volume Thai exchange. 

 

https://eng.ambcrypto.com/binance-adds-thai-baht-australian-dollar-support-following-latest-collaborations/

Edited January 9, 2020 by Tayaout

[EdrigoSalvadore]

26 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

Game over for low volume Thai exchange. 

 

https://eng.ambcrypto.com/binance-adds-thai-baht-australian-dollar-support-following-latest-collaborations/

We need to stop using the exchanges that requires KYC, and instead use decentralized exchanges such as hodlhodl and bisq. You will be marked as as a crypto user forever if you trade on sites you did kyc on, and you might be punished for it in the future. 

[Tayaout]

Yesterday, I opened an account with Satang.pro since Everex had some issue with cashout. 

 

ID and bank account verification took only a couple of minute. The interface could be better but it works(depends on browser). I deposited USDT and converted to Thai baht and got 31.10 (Everex had a slightly better rate) by doing a market sell. 

 

I went to cashout to my bank account but I kept getting "unknown error". I contacted the live chat and didn't have to wait. Support was very professional and wrote perfect English (better than mine). They recommended to try another browser and said they are available 24/7.

 

I was using chrome on Android and switched to Brave and it worked. The instant withrawal is really instant. As soon as I pushed the withrawal button it was in my bank account and the fee was around 20 baht. 

 

I did not check the volume for other crypto but for USDT it is fine for a couple hundred thousand baht withrawal. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Tayaout