Opposition to block UK PM Johnson's early election bid

[GuyFawkes]

[Basil B]

54 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

BJ disagrees with you. Are you calling him a liar?

Been proven time and time again...

Quote

 

A court case examining Johnson’s first controversial move as prime minister prompted further concerns about his honesty. He stated publicly that he was not planning to shut down Parliament in the lead up to the Brexit deadline, and his Downing Street spokesman continued to insist that would not be the case until days before Johnson asked the queen to do just that.

 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/brexit-deadlock-as-boris-johnsons-lies-finally-catch-up-with-him

Edited September 7, 2019 by Basil B

[Basil B]

He called TM a "Girly Swot"

 

Well he is about to feel like a fly swatted with the Sunday Times and all it's supplements.

 

And want to know why he was fired from the Times???

 

Read the link in my previous post. 

 

 

[GuyFawkes]

Brexit has become a poison in the UK society and it is so sad to see it so openly displayed both in UK and on this forum.

I have just returned from UK and I know of families who are split and people who were once friends and neighbours, now no longer talk to each other because of this.

 

I would hope that whatever the final outcome, the British nation will be able to come together, but if 'fuel' is continually added to the fire, I think that is a forlorn hope for years to come.

 

So very very sad!!

 

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Basil B said:

He called TM a "Girly Swot"

 

Well he is about to feel like a fly swatted with the Sunday Times and all it's supplements.

 

And want to know why he was fired from the Times???

 

Read the link in my previous post. 

 

 

He actually called Cameron a "girly swot", is it such a big deal, I've been called worst than that, are we getting too overly sensitive.

[3NUMBAS]

boris is going ahead with his leave come what may even if he is taken to court at a later date for defying the new bill .so there wont be any more extensions .it should be exit by 31st as planned or tories are toasted.. corbyn and his commy plot to gag the people will fail

[Blue Muton]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

She had 3 years and did zip except screw everything up. Now Boris has effectively been stopped from doing anything. Have a coffee.

He's had three years to think of an alternative to the backstop but there's no evidence of one coming from him and his special friend.

[Blue Muton]

9 minutes ago, Thairealist said:

 

That is why we must hold a General Election, to see if the British people want to leave the E.U.

So what is stopping us :- 

A referendum on the current alternatives (which were not known three years ago) is what should decide. As there seem to be three alternatives, a transferable vote should be used if none of the alternatives get 50%. The referendum should be binding (unlike the earlier one). General elections are for electing MP's.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Blue Muton said:

A referendum on the current alternatives (which were not known three years ago) is what should decide. As there seem to be three alternatives, a transferable vote should be used if none of the alternatives get 50%. The referendum should be binding (unlike the earlier one). General elections are for electing MP's.

And referendums are meant for ignoring. Fool me once, shame on you......Fool me twice shame on me.

[Blue Muton]

Just now, vogie said:

And referendums are meant for ignoring. Fool me once, shame on you......Fool me twice shame on me.

They're supposed to be fought within electoral law, perhaps the leave team will try to stay within it this time. BTW, where have you been these past three years if you think the earlier, adisory referendum has been ignored?

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Show me why and I'll tell you.

What is it about Johnson's lies to have made progress in EU negotiations that doesn't count for you as evidence?

 

Prime Minister's statement: 2 September 2019

 

"In the last few weeks the chances of a deal have been rising, I believe, for three reasons.

They can see that we want a deal.

They can see that we have a clear vision for our future relationship with the EU - something that has perhaps not always been the case."

 

Boris Johnson’s statements about the state of Brexit negotiations bear little relationship to reality, E.U. officials say

 

 European Union officials were astonished when British Prime Minister Boris Johnson this week claimed to be “encouraged by the progress” of critical, last-ditch Brexit negotiations.

Nothing is under negotiation, they said, because he has not bothered to make any suggestions.

Europeans listened to Johnson accuse the British Parliament of destroying his leverage by removing the threat of a no-deal withdrawal and pushing for another Brexit extension beyond the Oct. 31 deadline.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/boris-johnsons-statements-about-the-state-of-brexit-negotiations-bear-little-relationship-to-reality-eu-officials-say/2019/09/06/2122453e-cfec-11e9-a620-0a91656d7db6_story.html

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Blue Muton said:

They're supposed to be fought within electoral law, perhaps the leave team will try to stay within it this time. BTW, where have you been these past three years if you think the earlier, adisory referendum has been ignored?

And where have you been, have you heard the Greens and the Lib/Undems saying that they would not honour another referendum if/when leave won again. 

 

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

What is it about Johnson's lies to have made progress in EU negotiations that doesn't count for you as evidence?

 

Prime Minister's statement: 2 September 2019

 

"In the last few weeks the chances of a deal have been rising, I believe, for three reasons.

They can see that we want a deal.

They can see that we have a clear vision for our future relationship with the EU - something that has perhaps not always been the case."

 

Boris Johnson’s statements about the state of Brexit negotiations bear little relationship to reality, E.U. officials say

 

 European Union officials were astonished when British Prime Minister Boris Johnson this week claimed to be “encouraged by the progress” of critical, last-ditch Brexit negotiations.

Nothing is under negotiation, they said, because he has not bothered to make any suggestions.

Europeans listened to Johnson accuse the British Parliament of destroying his leverage by removing the threat of a no-deal withdrawal and pushing for another Brexit extension beyond the Oct. 31 deadline.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/boris-johnsons-statements-about-the-state-of-brexit-negotiations-bear-little-relationship-to-reality-eu-officials-say/2019/09/06/2122453e-cfec-11e9-a620-0a91656d7db6_story.html

No appropriate emoji for this, the actions of a so-called PM demand a much higher standard, it's not funny and I don't like it. Use of the "sad" one might give the wrong impression about what's making me sad.

[Blue Muton]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

And where have you been, have you heard the Greens and the Lib/Undems saying that they would not honour another referendum if/when leave won again. 

 

And what they say (if indeed they said that, perhaps you can post a link to support your claim) is relevant how, exactly. They're not likely to be running the show now, are they?

 

I seem to remember Farage saying that a 52-48 vote would not be the end of it.

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

And what they say (if indeed they said that, perhaps you can post a link to support your claim) is relevant how, exactly. They're not likely to be running the show now, are they?

 

I seem to remember Farage saying that a 52-48 vote would not be the end of it.

 

[Blue Muton]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Thanks for the link. It's no different to the likes of Farage in that they will keep fighting to overturn a result that fundamentaly goes against something that they strongly believe in, they would keep on campaigning, be it the EU, abortion, the death penalty, the NHS or any other strongly held belief.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that all of the leave campaigners would have just said "that's it then" and given up had the vote gone the other way?

 

While we're at it, let's have your thoughts on electoral fraud as I haven't seen eny response from you about that.

[vogie]

29 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Thanks for the link. It's no different to the likes of Farage in that they will keep fighting to overturn a result that fundamentaly goes against something that they strongly believe in, they would keep on campaigning, be it the EU, abortion, the death penalty, the NHS or any other strongly held belief.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that all of the leave campaigners would have just said "that's it then" and given up had the vote gone the other way?

 

While we're at it, let's have your thoughts on electoral fraud as I haven't seen eny response from you about that.

What I'm saying is that a second referendum would be totally pointless if the remainers are not willing to accept the result, most people would see it as a futile exercise only in favour of remain.

 

[Blue Muton]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

What I'm saying is that a second referendum would be totally pointless if the remainers are not willing to accept the result, most people would see it as a futile exercise only in favour of remain.

 

And what you're not saying is what you think of electoral fraud.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

And what you're not saying is what you think of electoral fraud.

It is obvious what ever I say to you is going over your head or you refuse to take on board what has been said. It started off as a referendum post, but seeing you have lost that arguement you are changing tack mid stream without informing anyone, there is no point in debating with you, here is your first post to which I thought we were discussing, goodbye.

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

A referendum on the current alternatives (which were not known three years ago) is what should decide. As there seem to be three alternatives, a transferable vote should be used if none of the alternatives get 50%. The referendum should be binding (unlike the earlier one). General elections are for electing MP's.

 

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

 The irony here is that because it was advisory, the Electoral Commission cannot declare the vote void or order a re-run.

48,11 % the British voters voted for only ONE form: "Remain", 51,88 % for "LEAVE". WHICH form of leave… tha'ts another story and.. referendum worthy. So, has nothign to do with a "re-run". Maybe even a lot of voters now discovered, all is not so easly and with no consequences, as they were lied to before. 

[puipuitom]

2 hours ago, GuyFawkes said:

Jan 1933... they did also, in Berlin. The rest is history.

[Slip]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

It is obvious what ever I say to you is going over your head or you refuse to take on board what has been said. It started off as a referendum post, but seeing you have lost that arguement you are changing tack mid stream without informing anyone, there is no point in debating with you, here is your first post to which I thought we were discussing, goodbye.

 

Blue Muton's comment on electoral law was in response to your comment "and referendums are meant to be ignored", which was in your first response to him in the exchange.  That comment to him was baiting, to which he gave a reasoned response that the sides should follow the law. You are doing that pigeon strutting on a chess board thing again.  

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Exactly, that's the norm in the real world. People living their lives. Vassal state - load of BS.

I love it to be a EU vassal state, with our (prime) minister(s) in the EU council ( and decission making cremium), our commissioner as one of the 28 member-state "ministers", and our 26 Dutch members in the EU Parliament.

But especially, when I want to cross the heavily defended borders, with fierce dogs, and angry immigration officers asking for my visa... and can use the same money from Helsinki to Cyprus and Cádiz.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

He's had three years to think of an alternative to the backstop but there's no evidence of one coming from him and his special friend.

The backstop did not exist as such 3 years ago.  

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

Not sure if Bernard Ingham had any influence on Mrs Thatchers decisions, he was classed as her press officer, she did take a lot of advice from Norman Tebbitt in the beginning (if she'd listen). But what is safe to say Maggie did what Maggie thought was best. In the end that was her downfall.

Campbell was much more of a hands on man and many say he did a lot to influence Tony Blair over the Iraq war, the rest is history. But to this day I still have to carry the burden of knowing that Campbell came from my home town.

We won't hold that against you Vogie.  Some may not know that in the early days of Campbell's career he used to write porn stories for a sex mag.  Eventually it all went down hill  though and he ended up working for Blair ????

 

However I don't remember him thinking that all politicians are scum as Cummings does.

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Remainers have now killed democracy in the UK. Well done guys! 

On the contrary it is Johnson who is trying to destroy democracy, now threatening to ignore the bill and break the law to override parliament to get his way.  He is being thwarted in this by all other parties and that is to protect the democratic process.  That includes leavers and remainers alike.

 

To blame remainers for the appalling way Johnson is behaving is pretty pathetic as well.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

What is it about Johnson's lies to have made progress in EU negotiations that doesn't count for you as evidence?

 

Prime Minister's statement: 2 September 2019

 

"In the last few weeks the chances of a deal have been rising, I believe, for three reasons.

They can see that we want a deal.

They can see that we have a clear vision for our future relationship with the EU - something that has perhaps not always been the case."

 

Boris Johnson’s statements about the state of Brexit negotiations bear little relationship to reality, E.U. officials say

 

 European Union officials were astonished when British Prime Minister Boris Johnson this week claimed to be “encouraged by the progress” of critical, last-ditch Brexit negotiations.

Nothing is under negotiation, they said, because he has not bothered to make any suggestions.

Europeans listened to Johnson accuse the British Parliament of destroying his leverage by removing the threat of a no-deal withdrawal and pushing for another Brexit extension beyond the Oct. 31 deadline.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/boris-johnsons-statements-about-the-state-of-brexit-negotiations-bear-little-relationship-to-reality-eu-officials-say/2019/09/06/2122453e-cfec-11e9-a620-0a91656d7db6_story.html

You inferred that Johnson would have disagreed with me about my statement that "she had 3 years and did zip except screw everything up", which referred to May. What do your quotes and links have to do with my comment or your claim? 

[Blue Muton]

16 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The backstop did not exist as such 3 years ago.  

Despite the backsop not existing then, the issue of the Irish border, Good Friday Agreement and membership of the EU or at least in this context the customs union certainly did. And what solution does Johnson have after all this time?

[StreetCowboy]

55 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

48,11 % the British voters voted for only ONE form: "Remain", 51,88 % for "LEAVE". WHICH form of leave… tha'ts another story and.. referendum worthy. So, has nothign to do with a "re-run". Maybe even a lot of voters now discovered, all is not so easly and with no consequences, as they were lied to before. 

If we can stand against the Germans in two world wars, we can stand against our parliament, the intellectuals and experts, and 48% of our compatriots. Brexit means Brexit, even if the Tories can’t agree on that.

 

When do you think they will relegate Brexit from the front pages? Next year? The year after?  

[dunroaming]

30 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

I love it to be a EU vassal state, with our (prime) minister(s) in the EU council ( and decission making cremium), our commissioner as one of the 28 member-state "ministers", and our 26 Dutch members in the EU Parliament.

But especially, when I want to cross the heavily defended borders, with fierce dogs, and angry immigration officers asking for my visa... and can use the same money from Helsinki to Cyprus and Cádiz.

I love being a European, always have and always will.  Weekends in Paris and Amsterdam, driving through Provence or Umbria, it's all good!