TM.30 / TM.28 - More Mixed Signals

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Thanks. I checked that page just now - how do I get a user ID and password for it?

You complete the info on this page that you are directed to after clicking registration on the main page.

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/FilterNoLogonServlet?nodeId=24&programId=FNHOTELREG

[Thailand J]

When I registered on MOnday 23rd I received the username and password right away. Was I being lucky or the system has been updated or it depends on the user's location?

[Thailand J]

7 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

No different than doing an extension, repeat documentation ever time.

Documents are needed to register a new address only.

Once you have a username and password for that address, no repeat document is required to file or re file after a trip and go back to the same address...from my limited experience ????

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Thailand J

[sumrit]

On 9/24/2019 at 12:00 PM, Knocker33 said:

I wonder what they would do if we all just refused to report .

Probably simply refuse your next extension application.

[Chazar]

On 9/24/2019 at 10:52 AM, SANSAI said:

and she should bring a Taxi receipt or boarding passes to show that it is within 24 hours.

This morning we went to Immigration armed with the completed TM30 form, copy of her house book, ID card, my passport, my boarding pass and the original of the previous TM 30 receipt she submitted in February this year.

Absolutely pathetic//disgusting

[Tanoshi]

10 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Thanks. I checked that page just now - how do I get a user ID and password for it?

Click 'Register'.

The registration page will be displayed as per the direct link supplied by UJ.

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/FilterNoLogonServlet?nodeId=24&programId=FNHOTELREG

 

Select 'Foreigner' (as opposed to Thai)

Select 'English' (as opposed to Thai) in the address section.

Use the drop down boxes where applicable to select a choice.

Upload a copy of your passport photo page and proof of address, such as copies of landlords Tabien, or a foreigners Yellow Tabien Baan if you possess one.

 

If completed successfully, you should receive an email with a link to verify your email address.

You then wait for a further email detailing your 'login' user ID and password.

[tgeezer]

11 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

You should file within 24 hours of arriving at your place of residence as indicated on your TM6.

You didn't previously mention you were out of Country.

 

Correct.

 

I'd apply to register online for further submissions as advised by @sussex

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

All documents have to be supplied again, or uploaded if doing online submission.

No different than doing an extension, repeat documentation ever time.

Quite wrong, you put the address of the place that you are staying, nothing to do with the TM6. In fact if you are one of those who are required to do a TM30, the address that you put on the TM6 is irrelevant. 

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Quite wrong, you put the address of the place that you are staying, nothing to do with the TM6. In fact if you are one of those who are required to do a TM30, the address that you put on the TM6 is irrelevant. 

The TM6 requests your Thai address.

The system is supposed to works thus;

You state your Thai address on the TM6 arrival card, then when you arrive at said residence a TM30 is filed.

 

Granted the system is outdated, ineffective and confusing, thus the TM6 is being withdrawn and they intend to rely on the House Master, Owner or possessor to file a TM30 in the future for the whereabouts of foreigners. Hence the current 'enforcement' of filing the TM30.

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

The TM6 requests your Thai address.

The system is supposed to works thus;

You state your Thai address on the TM6 arrival card, then when you arrive at said residence a TM30 is filed.

 

Granted the system is outdated, ineffective and confusing, thus the TM6 is being withdrawn and they intend to rely on the House Master, Owner or possessor to file a TM30 in the future for the whereabouts of foreigners. Hence the current 'enforcement' of filing the TM30.

The address on the TM6 doesn't have to be your home address. It's more of an initial/first address in Thailand. It has nothing to do with the TM30 report. 

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The address on the TM6 doesn't have to be your home address. It's more of an initial/first address in Thailand. It has nothing to do with the TM30 report. 

It has to be an address, even a hotel, then a TM30 should be filed when you arrive.

That was the theory behind the system in the first place, but it's never been effective for a number of reasons.

 

When they discontinue the TM6 they won't have a clue where thousands of foreigners are staying.

One step forward, two steps back as usual.

[TerraplaneGuy]

On 9/27/2019 at 12:16 AM, Tanoshi said:

Click 'Register'.

The registration page will be displayed as per the direct link supplied by UJ.

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/FilterNoLogonServlet?nodeId=24&programId=FNHOTELREG

 

Select 'Foreigner' (as opposed to Thai)

Select 'English' (as opposed to Thai) in the address section.

Use the drop down boxes where applicable to select a choice.

Upload a copy of your passport photo page and proof of address, such as copies of landlords Tabien, or a foreigners Yellow Tabien Baan if you possess one.

 

If completed successfully, you should receive an email with a link to verify your email address.

You then wait for a further email detailing your 'login' user ID and password.

I'm now collecting the info to do this registration.  A couple further questions please:

 

1. I've never filed a TM.30 yet.  I do my retirement extensions at Chaeng Wattana.  I'm outside Thaiand now, returning next month.  Next extension will be in January.  So: if I register and upload the docs now, can I then file the TM.30 online the first time (when I arrive next month) or do I have to go in person to CW?

2. If I fail to file the TM.30 within 24 hours of arrival next month, but file it say a week or two after (whether online or in person) what will happen when I go in January for my extension?  Will they just charge me a fine for the late filing or make me re-file the TM.30? 

 

Basically my goal is to avoid having to file TM.30s in person at all, if that's possible.  I don't want to have to do it when I go for extension (i.e. waste time and pay a fine then) and don't want to make a special trip for it earlier.  Advice?

[TerraplaneGuy]

18 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

I'm now collecting the info to do this registration.  A couple further questions please:

 

1. I've never filed a TM.30 yet.  I do my retirement extensions at Chaeng Wattana.  I'm outside Thaiand now, returning next month.  Next extension will be in January.  So: if I register and upload the docs now, can I then file the TM.30 online the first time (when I arrive next month) or do I have to go in person to CW?

2. If I fail to file the TM.30 within 24 hours of arrival next month, but file it say a week or two after (whether online or in person) what will happen when I go in January for my extension?  Will they just charge me a fine for the late filing or make me re-file the TM.30? 

 

Basically my goal is to avoid having to file TM.30s in person at all, if that's possible.  I don't want to have to do it when I go for extension (i.e. waste time and pay a fine then) and don't want to make a special trip for it earlier.  Advice?

CORRECTION/QUERY: I should maybe have referred in this quoted post above to Form TM.28, instead of TM.30.  It seems most discussion focuses on TM.30 but my understanding (and a recent public statement of a Thai immigration official) is that TM.30 is strictly for landlords, not their expat tenants.  The tenants are said to only have to file TM.28.  I am an expat tenant.  But I know there have been people who thought the TM.30 was also the tenant's obligation if the landlord didn't file.  So, my questions in the above post still apply but please clarify if you know whether the references should be to TM.28, not TM.30.  Thanks!

[Tanoshi]

33 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

CORRECTION/QUERY: I should maybe have referred in this quoted post above to Form TM.28, instead of TM.30.  It seems most discussion focuses on TM.30 but my understanding (and a recent public statement of a Thai immigration official) is that TM.30 is strictly for landlords, not their expat tenants.  The tenants are said to only have to file TM.28.  I am an expat tenant.  But I know there have been people who thought the TM.30 was also the tenant's obligation if the landlord didn't file.  So, my questions in the above post still apply but please clarify if you know whether the references should be to TM.28, not TM.30.  Thanks!

It's a TM30.

          NOTIFICATION FROM THE HOUSE MASTER, OWNER OR POSSESSOR OF THE RESIDENCE                       WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED. 

 

Section 4 of the Immigration Act defines the House Master as;

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Max69xl]

49 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

CORRECTION/QUERY: I should maybe have referred in this quoted post above to Form TM.28, instead of TM.30.  It seems most discussion focuses on TM.30 but my understanding (and a recent public statement of a Thai immigration official) is that TM.30 is strictly for landlords, not their expat tenants.  The tenants are said to only have to file TM.28.  I am an expat tenant.  But I know there have been people who thought the TM.30 was also the tenant's obligation if the landlord didn't file.  So, my questions in the above post still apply but please clarify if you know whether the references should be to TM.28, not TM.30.  Thanks!

You can self report the TM30 as the possessor if you rent a condo in your name. This works at many immigration offices. Online you register as "foreigner" and as the "possessor". The TM28 is officially used for Change of Address, and not for Notification of Stay. 

[TerraplaneGuy]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

It's a TM30.

          NOTIFICATION FROM THE HOUSE MASTER, OWNER OR POSSESSOR OF THE RESIDENCE                       WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED. 

 

Section 4 of the Immigration Act defines the House Master as;

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever

 

 

Thanks, I know about that definition (and this issue has been dissected a lot on another thread so I don't think we should get into the statutory interpretation) but when you look at how it is used in the Act there are different opinions, and the Bureau itself seems to have conflicting views so the question of who is responsible gets confused.  For example, the Phuket News reported last month:  

"“No, we don’t hold foreigners responsible for filing the TM30. Foreigners just need to make sure that they fill in a TM28. The TM30 is the landlord’s job,” Phuket Immigration Deputy Chief Col Nareuwat Putthawiro said plainly on Wednesday (Aug 28)".  So it gets quite confusing.  For example, if an expat goes to stay in a hotel in another province for a month, the hotel will normally file a TM30.  But if it doesn't, the expat may be held responsible for filing.  But also, the expat seems required to file a TM28 for precisely the same event.  It would seem he should file both forms, silly as that may seem.  But I don't hear much about that, everybody seems to focus only on the TM30.  In any event, please answer if you can my questions above about how I can file (and whether both TM30 and TM28) on my impending arrival and what happens if I don't file on time.  Those are the practical issues I'm hoping to get guidance on.  Thanks! ????

[TerraplaneGuy]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

You can self report the TM30 as the possessor if you rent a condo in your name. This works at many immigration offices. Online you register as "foreigner" and as the "possessor". The TM28 is officially used for Change of Address, and not for Notification of Stay. 

Thanks.  With this in mind I'll restate the questions I had above, and if you have answers please let me know:

1. I've never filed a TM.30 yet.  I do my retirement extensions at Chaeng Wattana.  I'm outside Thaiand now, returning next month.  Next extension will be in January.  So: if I register and upload the docs now, can I then file the TM.30 online the first time (when I arrive next month) or do I have to go in person to CW?

2. If I fail to file the TM.30 within 24 hours of arrival next month, but file it say a week or two after (whether online or in person) what will happen when I go in January for my extension?  Will they just charge me a fine for the late filing or make me re-file the TM.30? 

 

Basically my goal is to avoid having to file TM.30s in person at all, if that's possible.  I don't want to have to do it when I go for extension (i.e. waste time and pay a fine then) and don't want to make a special trip for it earlier.  Advice?

[Tanoshi]

6 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

1. I've never filed a TM.30 yet.  I do my retirement extensions at Chaeng Wattana.  I'm outside Thaiand now, returning next month.  Next extension will be in January.  So: if I register and upload the docs now, can I then file the TM.30 online the first time (when I arrive next month) or do I have to go in person to CW?

CW only started enforcing the TM30 requirement in April this year. 

1. Yes if you can register online (subject to document approval) then you can file online as a foreigner.

You can also file by mail, or in person.

 

6 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

2. If I fail to file the TM.30 within 24 hours of arrival next month, but file it say a week or two after (whether online or in person) what will happen when I go in January for my extension?  Will they just charge me a fine for the late filing or make me re-file the TM.30? 

2. Provided you have filed a TM30 no action is taken.

Before foreigners could file online, I filed in person (last 6 years) but found it very inconvenient to file within the 24 hour requirement. I therefore put the same date on the form as the day I filed. Only once was I ever questions about the discrepancy in the date of filing and the date of arrival back in the Country.

I stated I spent a few days in a hotel before arriving at my registered address.

The law clearly states a TM30 is filed within 24 hours of arrival at your hotel or dwelling place. 

Hotels are clearly responsible for filing the TM30, if that's your dwelling place.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Tanoshi]

6 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

"“No, we don’t hold foreigners responsible for filing the TM30. Foreigners just need to make sure that they fill in a TM28. The TM30 is the landlord’s job,” Phuket Immigration Deputy Chief Col Nareuwat Putthawiro said plainly on Wednesday (Aug 28)".  So it gets quite confusing.

I think you'll find his statement and the actions of Phuket Immigration are different, who are quite often a law unto themselves.

Whilst primarily it may be the responsibility of the owner/landlord to file, in many circumstances the landlords are absent and wouldn't have a clue of a foreigners comings and goings.

If you rent, then you should initially establish who will be the responsible person beforehand.

I used to previously rent, but the owner lived in another Province, therefore I found it more convenient to file myself to make sure the law was complied with.

I'm now married, my wife owns the house, I'm registered online and as my wife has no IT skills whatsoever, it's again more convenient for me to file online myself.

 

The TM28 is for filing a change of address or for staying in another Province for over 24 hours.

 

TM30 section 38 of the Immigration Act

TM28 and TM27 section 37 of the Immigration Act.

 

Basic advice when in Rome do as the Romans do.

When in Phuket do as they do.

When in Bangkok do as they do.

[iaminwa]

Now I am confused - just in from Thailand Elite on their latest newsletter:

 

[steve187]

2 minutes ago, iaminwa said:

Now I am confused - just in from Thailand Elite on their latest newsletter:

 

is that referring to a tm28

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

is that referring to a tm28

Yes it is.

It is just for a change of address.

[tgeezer]

24 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it is.

It is just for a change of address.

It is an interpretation which assumes a short stay for those categories listed.  It does not mention that they have to do 90 day reports for example. So retirees need to inform within 24 hours but a student studying in Thailand can wait 90 days before reporting his residence, whether it is the same address as stated on the TM6 or not.  That is fine but it does make one wonder what the reasons are for it. 

 

[Max69xl]

30 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

It is an interpretation which assumes a short stay for those categories listed.  It does not mention that they have to do 90 day reports for example. So retirees need to inform within 24 hours but a student studying in Thailand can wait 90 days before reporting his residence, whether it is the same address as stated on the TM6 or not.  That is fine but it does make one wonder what the reasons are for it. 

 

Tourists don't need to submit the TM28,but expats do when CHANGING address. This is not same as the TM30 which is a notification of stay. 

[TerraplaneGuy]

On 9/26/2019 at 12:09 AM, sussex said:

If you're under a time constraint (my posted TM30 took 5 weeks to be returned to me) register online for the TM30 system and you'll immediately get the password. To register you need to upload  your landlord ID + scanned tabien baan.

 

Once you've got your username and password, just enter your details, click the save symbol (diskette) and you should be registered, TM30 done (your details will disappear). You can then search the website for your 'check in date' to confirm you're registered. Don't worry if you haven't done this within 24 hours of landing the first time round.

 

Future trips back to Thailand, just re-enter your details online. 

OK I managed to register online, got their confirmation email and a username and changed my password.  A couple questions:

 

1. I notice when I click User Profile in the upper right corner of the main page a box opens with User ID, Start Date etc. but nothing is filled in.  Is that normal?

2. Back in the main page, when I try to fill out a TM.30, I chose the menu item "Notify foreigners staying/Notification of foreigners staying (Notification TM.30)".  It opens a window with a lot of fields to fill in that seems more suitable for a hotel than for me (I will be arriving back at my rented condo).  For example, the first field is "Check-out date".  Am I selecting the wrong menu item?  I'm not sure this is the right way for me to file a TM.30 on return to Thailand but I don't see another item for it.

Thanks for any advice! 

 

[Max69xl]

8 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

OK I managed to register online, got their confirmation email and a username and changed my password.  A couple questions:

 

1. I notice when I click User Profile in the upper right corner of the main page a box opens with User ID, Start Date etc. but nothing is filled in.  Is that normal?

2. Back in the main page, when I try to fill out a TM.30, I chose the menu item "Notify foreigners staying/Notification of foreigners staying (Notification TM.30)".  It opens a window with a lot of fields to fill in that seems more suitable for a hotel than for me (I will be arriving back at my rented condo).  For example, the first field is "Check-out date".  Am I selecting the wrong menu item?  I'm not sure this is the right way for me to file a TM.30 on return to Thailand but I don't see another item for it.

Thanks for any advice! 

 

How did you register? As the landlord/owner with tabien baan and thai id or yourself as foreigner and as the possessor? 

 

It should look like this if you registered as a foreigner with the address above the Check-in Date:

 

[Max69xl]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:17 PM, tgeezer said:

It is an interpretation which assumes a short stay for those categories listed.  It does not mention that they have to do 90 day reports for example. So retirees need to inform within 24 hours but a student studying in Thailand can wait 90 days before reporting his residence, whether it is the same address as stated on the TM6 or not.  That is fine but it does make one wonder what the reasons are for it. 

 

Why should info about the TM28 include info about the 90 days report? 

Retirees/expats are still "officially" required to submit the TM28 when for example moving to another province. It's a Change of Address. The TM6 address though, has nothing to do with the TM28/TM30 address. 

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The TM6 address though, has nothing to do with the TM28/TM30 address. 

So you keep saying.

So what's the purpose of a TM6 then if not to inform an officially of intended place of stay in Thailand.

When you arrive at that intended place of stay, the owner, house master, possessor or hotel manager files a TM30.

If you don't stay at the place of residence as informed to the Immigration official on your arrival card, then you should file a TM27.

 

How are they not related to each other.

[Max69xl]

18 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

I did one in August by mail with a return stamped envelope. I never got confirmation. At the end of September, I was at at the immigration office on a different matter so I asked. The IO said she would check the computer and came back saying everything was reported and gave me the date. She offered a print out but I said I really didn't need it. My point is that everything is now on an easily accessed computer and can easily be checked. Since its available on line it probably worthwhile just doing it. 

In the past I suspect that the TM 30 went into a dusty envelope and were not really accessible. I guess we'll see when people start complaining about being fined.

The only thing I don't understand when they "designed" the TM30 online report,why skip the receipt which should be possible to print out. How hard can it be? You can print out the 90 days report slip. 

[nrasmussen]

The only thing I don't understand when they "designed" the TM30 online report,why skip the receipt which should be possible to print out. How hard can it be? You can print out the 90 days report slip. 

My guess is that it's because it was originally designed to be used by hotels which don't need to print receipts.

[TerraplaneGuy]

8 hours ago, Max69xl said:

How did you register? As the landlord/owner with tabien baan and thai id or yourself as foreigner and as the possessor? 

 

It should look like this if you registered as a foreigner with the address above the Check-in Date:

 

Thanks!  Yes mine looks like that.  It just seemed "check-in" sounded like a hotel whereas I registered as foreigner/possessor (of my condo).  So then, what should I put as "check-out" date if I don't know when I may leave the country (my condo) again?  Also, what should I do with the table at the bottom that seems to have fields for all the same information as the fields at the top of the form (except in horizontal arrangement)?  Do I have to re-enter it all again?  Finally, what docs should I upload when filing, the same as when I registered?  At that time I uploaded scans of my passport and my landlord's tabien (condo land registration).  I didn't upload his Thai ID card although I have it.